Fun with Detect Magic / Detect Alignment?

[Mister Cheesy]

Hi all,

I'm DMing a Pathfinder game, and I've noticed that my players are using Detect Evil/Detect Magic quite a lot. I feel its breaking the flow of the game.

I've read a lot of the discussions on this problem in these forms along with some of the ways to diminish its impact, but I want to go the other way. I'm looking for creative role playing, house rules or other colorful ways to cut down on parties dependence on these sort of abilities of their own free will.

For example, consider Harry Dresden's Third Eye (search for Third Eye) as a variant on Detect Magic. That retelling of detect magic is the kind of thing a player wouldn't want to do every time you want to walk into a room. It could even be modeled as temporary wisdom damage or the like.

Any Suggestions? The more creative the better...

[karkon]

The simple solution Is to just not let it kill the flow. You find nothing of importance.

You can trow them off track some times by having random powerful auras unrelated to the game. This one cobblestone in the street is both evil and strongly magical.

[Laithoron]

Well, depending on when they use it and how, it would probably draw suspicion from those around them. Consider how odd it would be to have someone enter the door and immediately stare at the room for a prolonged period of time while they are detecting auras. I'd have people in the area making sense motive and perception checks against them. If they detect that they are being spied upon, it is probably going to worsen their attitude. At best they'd think the character is a nosy bastard, at worst they might think they are plotting a theft or trying to size them up for an imminent attack.

I would allow NPCs who make such checks to act in the surprise round if combat breaks out or perhaps even take the party by surprise thinking they are about to get sacked.

Similarly, in a world where magic is common, owners of such objects and law enforcement officers would probably be able to pick up on such cues even without ranks in Spellcraft. Hell, there might even be city ordinances against using divinations in public without due cause or a warrant, etc.

[cranewings]

Personally, I don't let detect evil work for anything other than Supernatural Evil, like extra planar creatures, or people who are going to perform an evil act RIGHT NOW. So a murderer doesn't show up on detect evil unless he is about to kill someone, or has someone drowning in his basement or something.

As far as detecting supernatural evil, one of the "laws of magic" in Ars Magica was that magic couldn't be used to change the nature of, or detect the designs of, infernal creatures. While you might be able to detect a space vampire, you couldn't detect a succubus in human form.

As far as detecting magic, I'd just roll with it. I actually tell my players about magical auras without them asking, assuming high level monks and sorcerers would be able to sense such things naturally.

You can also extend the duration of spells like hide alignment or magic aura or whatever.

[Foghammer]

Look at the spell Detect Evil. This came up in my campaign, and we didn't realize right away that the 1st level beggar-thief (the one who kicks puppies and steal little girls' dollies in order to set fire to them) did not detect as evil.

An aligned creature with 5 or fewer HD has NO aura. That alone should help immensely.

Detect Magic... eh... Sorry. Not sure about that one.

EDIT: Note that Outsiders and Undead have different ratings, as do Clerics and Paladins and Spells. "Aligned creature" refers to anything not in those categories.

[Mistwalker]

My players don't rely on Detect Magic quite as much as they used to. A few of the reason are listed below.

It takes a bit of extra time and is usually obvious to anyone watching.

It does not always work, as my NPCs, knowing about the cantrip, often cast Magic Aura on mundane things to make them look magical and on magical items, to make them look mundane.

NPCs react badly to people "casing" them. Which may lead to fights, trouble obtaining information or supplies (or getting charged an arm and a leg for any kind of supplies).

Being the suspects in any crime that ended up with the loss of a magical item or anyone killed with magic.

Lead lined boxes to hide magical treasure are fairly common. Or thick stone walls.

Magical traps with Magic Aura cast on them, right next to another magical trap, so the rogue trying to disable it, set's off the hidden one. Or a silent image of a wall, right in front of the wall which has a glyph on it, so if it is dipelled, the glyph affects those in the room.

[Charender]

Mistwalker wrote:

My players don't rely on Detect Magic quite as much as they used to. A few of the reason are listed below.

It takes a bit of extra time and is usually obvious to anyone watching.

It does not always work, as my NPCs, knowing about the cantrip, often cast Magic Aura on mundane things to make them look magical and on magical items, to make them look mundane.

NPCs react badly to people "casing" them. Which may lead to fights, trouble obtaining information or supplies (or getting charged an arm and a leg for any kind of supplies).

Being the suspects in any crime that ended up with the loss of a magical item or anyone killed with magic.

Lead lined boxes to hide magical treasure are fairly common. Or thick stone walls.

Magical traps with Magic Aura cast on them, right next to another magical trap, so the rogue trying to disable it, set's off the hidden one. Or a silent image of a wall, right in front of the wall which has a glyph on it, so if it is dipelled, the glyph affects those in the room.

Good list

Add

Takes a long time to use in combat situations. Typically it takes 2-3 rounds to isolate a specific aura, by then that invisible rogue has either left the area, or stabbed you in the face.

and

Detects all magic, including the players gear. Once the players start getting magic gear, detect magic actual becomes harder to use. You detect 16 magic auras, which one do you want to focus on?

To the list.

[Evil Lincoln]

I lumped them into my general passive detection rules.

This makes it easier to look over an adventure and see what kind of caution will reveal what details. If you know your party pretty well, you just need to get them to agree on a level of caution.

My House Rules wrote:

As you explore an encounter site, you get a "passive" detection roll made in secret by the GM. The check result is dependent upon your level of caution — additional caution takes more time. The time taken has been abstracted into "rooms" for easier resolution. Larger or smaller rooms may adjust the listed times.

Reckless
Passive Perception: 1
Combat Speed: Double Move or Run
Detection spell: No
Time per room: Speed
Inspect in detail: No

Ambulatory
Passive Perception: 1d20
Combat Speed: full speed (30/round)
Detection spell: 1 round (presence or absence)
Time per room: 1 round
Inspect in detail: 1 object/phenomenon

Careful
Passive Perception: 10
Combat Speed: half speed (15/round)
Detection spell: 2 rounds (number)
Time per room: 1 minute
Inspect in detail: 10 objects/phenomena

Meticulous
Passive Perception: 20
Combat Speed: slow (5/round)
Detection spell: 3 rounds (location and school)
Time per room: 10 minutes
Inspect in detail: unlimited objects/phenomena

[General Chaos]

Evil Lincoln wrote:

I lumped them into my general passive detection rules.

This makes it easier to look over an adventure and see what kind of caution will reveal what details. If you know your party pretty well, you just need to get them to agree on a level of caution.

Wow. I *really* like that idea.

[dave.gillam]

It takes time to use the spell, and all security is put on edge by a guy "casing the joint", especially adventurers; lets face it a career path only slightly more honest than thief or politician