One of my players is a barbarian with a reach weapon and Combat Reflexes. Any suggestions on how to get in and do some damage to him (other than soaking up an AO and damage every time)?
Don't get hit? Don't close? Do damage from range? Make an Acrobatics check? Better yet, let the player enjoy the benefits of the choices he's made for his character?
I'll add Spring Attack and burrowing monsters, give his humanoid foes reach weapons. If a monster has reach try Reposition (see APG new maneuvers him in closer.
Although I'm kind of with Spes Magna Mark, try to bypass or counter this choice too often and he'll just get frustrated. If he is that dangerous to go after, intelligent enemies are more likely to go for his friends.
Some things have been mentioned (including the obvious ranged attacks). Here's some more:
1. Even bigger reach (enlarged humanoids with reach weapon maybe).
2. Spells.
3. Sunder.
4. Disarm.
5. Dirty trick (blindness)
6. Stealth.
7. Environment (statues, trees, pillars, etc can help - also if your villains have abilities such as woodland stride they can take advantage of thick undergrowth that to attack from unseen positions).
If you have a more specific scenario/resources - we can suggest some ways to make that happen as well.
...try to bypass or counter this choice too often and he'll just get frustrated.True that. But just once in a while I'd like a foe to waltz in, abound the whirling polearm of death, and smack him.
'
Nothing like a good old fashioned Landshark attack to make players scurry up tall trees. It also matches his reach so it is twice the nasty.
Just as an anecdote: the barbarian in our campaign killed the landshark when it entered the threatened area with a crit (rage power: unexpected strike). True story :)
With the Pathfinder rules alone RAW, creatures with Reach cannot attack enemies that are diagonal to them because of the sudden skip from 5 to 15 feet, outside of the Reach weapon's threatened range. Unless as a GM, you're houseruling that the 3.5 rule that makes Reach an exception to the distance rules applies. Of course, exploiting this mechanic could get obnoxious I suppose.
Make him move up to the opponents, when he gets to their move they can 5' step in. He now can't use his weapon either.
If they charge at him then he gets a lot of free hits, but once they are through then he is stuffed anyway, and will have to change weapons.
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I believe that Disarm and Sunder are NOT ´generally´ the greatest tactic for getting rid of a Reach Weapon whose Reach is greater than your own. Both require targetting the OPPONENT wielding the weapon, which requires getting inside the Reach Weapon (once you´re inside their reach they will either be 5´ stepping away, which you can match, or moving away/withdrawing, which removes the AoO/action advantage). This is further reinforced by the fact that a Feat exists ´Strike Back´ which allows targetting Reach Weapon for these types of Maneuvers (or just doing damage to the wielder) though unofortunately the Feat requires you to Ready an Attack to do so.
...Which brings up another tactic: A Readied Attack can include a 5´step, so if the Reach difference is only 5´, an enemy can ready to 5´ step and attack once the Polearm wielder approaches just outside their reach. If the Polearm wielder was just about to attack, they are screwed because they are no longer in correct position (potentially, assuming small/medium pole-arms) and either have zero actions remaining or no effective way to attack with the Polearm against an opponent now adjeacent to them.
...Which brings up another tactic: A Readied Attack can include a 5´step, so if the Reach difference is only 5´, an enemy can ready to 5´ step and attack once the Polearm wielder approaches just outside their reach. If the Polearm wielder was just about to attack, they are screwed because they are no longer in correct position (potentially, assuming small/medium pole-arms) and either have zero actions remaining or no effective way to attack with the Polearm against an opponent now adjeacent to them.
Yeah thats what I was thinking, make the polearm wielder come to you and then ruin their day.
...try to bypass or counter this choice too often and he'll just get frustrated.True that. But just once in a while I'd like a foe to waltz in, abound the whirling polearm of death, and smack him.
Your fighter is using a reach weapon... take that weapon, and give your critter the same weapon.
Would this not put them back on the same footing.
Oh, and besides Teleport effects/ Dimension Door (with Passengers attacking),
Summoned Creatures are of course going to {{pop in}} just where they need to be to attack, of course.
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Great suggestions, thanks. And, for the record, I'm all for letting him shine. He's created a fun, well-rounded character. It's just that, right now, the reach/Combat Reflexes trick is working really well for him and I don't want him to get too comfortable feeling that it's always going to work for him.. I want to challenge him with something that will occasionally cause him to shift tactics, keep him on his toes. I think he'd enjoy rising to the occasion and adapting his strategy for a worthy foe. Makes the kill all the more satisfying ;)
In the past, I've countered this build with ranged attackers be they archers or casters both make fantastic means of getting past this build. Place a couple of defense focused guys in a shield wall and a 10ft wide hallway becomes a strong chokepoint to keep him back while the ranged fighters plink at him from a relatively safe distance. This does require enemies to have a few feats to reduce penalties of it.
Also, as the party gets stronger, higher CR nonhumanoid monsters tend to be bigger so many of them have reach equal to or greater than his.
Make him move up to the opponents, when he gets to their move they can 5' step in. He now can't use his weapon either.
If they charge at him then he gets a lot of free hits, but once they are through then he is stuffed anyway, and will have to change weapons.
Which is why I preach about the lunge feat. That gives you the extra 5' of reach so your target stays outside of the AoO barrier. It also gives you enough full attack distance with reach weapons that you could pick something other than beast totem and not feel that guilty for giving up pounce.
Anyway, serious solution- just throw more enemies. Even with combat reflexes, he still has a distinct limit on the number of AoOs he can use per turn. Have enough bum rush his line, and some will get through.
Now, there is a way to do this without making things terrible- make the extra enemies into weak fodder that get killed easily by the AoOs. That allows for little increase in CR, allows the barbarian to feel manly and useful by killing things, and potentially allows the enemies appear intelligent (ie- use expendable fodder to tie up the strongest physical threat, while real enemies go for the target).
Done effectively, it might make the barbarian willingly limit the amount of AoO use- he will an AoO or two in case he really needs it later.
*Don't* try to get inside; instead, stand off with archery -- most barbarians have the AC of a big pincushion.
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I would just like to point out this thread is from 2011.
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With the Pathfinder rules alone RAW, creatures with Reach cannot attack enemies that are diagonal to them because of the sudden skip from 5 to 15 feet, outside of the Reach weapon's threatened range. Unless as a GM, you're houseruling that the 3.5 rule that makes Reach an exception to the distance rules applies. Of course, exploiting this mechanic could get obnoxious I suppose.
Actually reach works differently than the movement rules, so they do actually threaten on the diagonals. See the templates of the medium and large creature threat ranges for reference: Space, Reach, & Threatened Area
Edit: also here's an official FAQ regarding reach with a reach weapon
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With the Pathfinder rules alone RAW, creatures with Reach cannot attack enemies that are diagonal to them because of the sudden skip from 5 to 15 feet, outside of the Reach weapon's threatened range. Unless as a GM, you're houseruling that the 3.5 rule that makes Reach an exception to the distance rules applies. Of course, exploiting this mechanic could get obnoxious I suppose.
10-Foot Reach and Diagonals: I’m confused about reach and diagonals. I heard somewhere online that you don’t threaten the second diagonal with a 10-foot reach but that you somehow get an attack of opportunity when opponents move out of that square, but the Rules Reference Cards show that you do threaten the second diagonal. Which one is correct?
The cards are correct. As an exception to the way that diagonals normally work, a creature with 10 feet of reach threatens the second diagonal. These changes will be reflected in the next errata.