|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
My last thread sort of turned into this so I might as well give it a proper name.
Players don't like to leave things half done. And helping out Westcrowns nightlife is only the beginning. As Janavin said in her initial speech, the people of Westcrown and Cheliax chafe under the oppressive weight of diabolic rule. So what is a party of Adventurers to do when the Diabolic navy sails into their newly freed city.
My thinking is that they don't use a lot of magic in the navy. Summoning devils on a ship might not be the best idea. SO the Navy only has a few sorcerers. In order to pacify a city they are going to have to dock in the city get out of their boats. Making them a less well trained army trying to fight a battle in a city.
For the most part the people of Westcrown don't remember the horrors of the civil war, and have been harassed and beaten down by the nobility and the hellknights for their entire lives. Now the nobles are mostly gone and the helknights are virtual nonexistent in the city. The heroes have just lifted a curse that has caused hardship and fear for 30 years. I think the people of the city would be willing to follow a call to open rebellion.
So where does that leave the heroes? With bigger challenges for sure. Does anyone have any idea of how things might play out from here? They are a group of powerful individuals with a loyal following in on of the largest cities on the planet. My instinct says siege, and a long one.
Long enough to stir up the enemies of Cheliax? They certainly aren't well liked by their neighbors or even many of the citizens within the empire. Could a rebelling Westcrown ignite a civil war that leads to the fall of house Thrune, especially when there is a group of heroes traveling and fanning the flames?
Siege warfare is, historically, not a long and drawn out affair. Logistically it is very difficult to supply and man an army in the field for extended periods of time, and cities are at the mercy of limited resources within the walls. Starvation and disease were more responsible for the success or failure of sieges than military might ever was.
Often, cities would expel all children and elderly, and sometimes healthy adult women, leaving them to die in the "no-man's land" between walls and invaders, to extend the food and water resources for the men fighting for the city.
Cities under siege were often undone by treachery from within the city, such as poisoning of the food or water supply, or sabotage of the city's defenses. *SPOILER WARNING* Remember, this is a city in nearly complete anarchy. There are Asmodean clerics and inquisitors, nobles whose fortunes are tied completely to the House of Thrune, Hellknights in active rebellion against their own, the Dottari have no control, and disparate elements of the "Council" have to have survived the siblings pogrom.
Also, this is a huge city, with miles of walls to man, a river that cuts literally through the heart of it, and access via ocean. How could you defend it against a committed attack by an army with naval and diabolical assistance?
Sieges before the age of gunpowder would often last months, even years. And the army and navy of Cheliax have concerns beyond just Westcrown. They also aren't the only ones with magical aid available. And the central island of the city would be extremely defensible. And yes lack of supplies and poor health conditions were often the way sieges ended, that's why they were sieges. And yes it's a huge city with miles of walls, like many of the great cities of history.
The civil war that ended in the rise of the house of Thrune lasted 34 years. They had dealings with devils before that started. Obviously just having devils help you isn't going to be the automatic win. And what happens if players slip out from time to time and go to other countries for aid. How many of them would take the opportunity deal a little trouble to their devil worshiping neighbors?
I'm wondering about a 13-20 style fate of the kingdom type campaign where the gods and powerful otherworldly forces pretty much cancel each other out, so it's up to the will, armies and magic of the people to sort it out. Through diplomacy, strategy and difficult choices how might a group of heroes free Cheliax from it's Diabolic yolk? Rebellion of Westcrown would be an excellent start.
Vorne doesn't expect a full blown rebellion, he's planning on sailing onto Westcrown and restoring order and sailing out again. If even a tenth of the full navy was with him I'd be surprised. It's a big navy that has all the inner sea and beyond to patrol. Except for large scale naval battles in times of war there probably aren't more than a dozen ships in any one place other than Ostenso.
And yes what I am asking is How might the heroes go about this task in your opinion.
There could be some very fun, and challenging, concepts in say:
1. Laying siege to Citadel Rivad
2. Purging the Hagwood
3. Capturing the towns near the Stavian Arches (I can't remember their names. It's in the source material somewhere, though.)
4. Diplomatic missions to Andoren or Absolom (or anywhere else your pc's would choose).
5. Generating public dissent in Ostenso, Corynten, or another Chelish city
6. Anything else you could think of, building on what your pc's have already accomplished
Having just finished CoT myself, I didn't feel like the pc's had the situation firmly enough in hand to openly rebel. Though, that may have just been my experience.
Enlist the aid of the Bellflower Network (the Halfling anti-slavers of Cheliax), the Andoran Faction which helps revolutionaries, and dissadents fight against tyrany, ask the Pathfinder Society for aid as they arnt allowed in Cheliax. They could give some supplies and moneys in exchange for an in into the country and access to historical reccords and archaeological artifacts, ask the Chirches of Sarenrae and Iomedae for help. They both would :) Clerics, Druids, and Paladins of Saranrae would love to help the downtroden in Cheliax, and kick out the Devils. And the Clerics and Paladins of Iomedae would go in and give aid to the needy and smight evil left and right...
Zooman wrote: My last thread sort of turned into this so I might as well give it a proper name.
Players don't like to leave things half done. And helping out Westcrowns nightlife is only the beginning. As Janavin said in her initial speech, the people of Westcrown and Cheliax chafe under the oppressive weight of diabolic rule. So what is a party of Adventurers to do when the Diabolic navy sails into their newly freed city.
Note: The city isn't freed. They just defeated one of who knows how many threats and the city is practically in anarchy. They have little to no control over the city and all instruments of public order were crippled by the recent attacks. There's no way to rebuild it in less than a few months. And that assumes that nobody stirs up the flames of unrest as you propose.
Zooman wrote: My thinking is that they don't use a lot of magic in the navy. Summoning devils on a ship might not be the best idea. SO the Navy only has a few sorcerers. In order to pacify a city they are going to have to dock in the city get out of their boats. Making them a less well trained army trying to fight a battle in a city. You are very wrong here. What is better in naval combat than fireballs into enemy sails? Marines that water walk of fly? Ships will require dimensional anchors to keep enemies from teleporting in.
For that matter magic ensures that the wind always blows the right direction. And clerics ensure that there's enough food for long journeys.
Zooman wrote: For the most part the people of Westcrown don't remember the horrors of the civil war, and have been harassed and beaten down by the nobility and the hellknights for their entire lives. Now the nobles are mostly gone and the helknights are virtual nonexistent in the city. The heroes have just lifted a curse that has caused hardship and fear for 30 years. I think the people of the city would be willing to follow a call to open rebellion. How many were ready to take up arms against the thieves? And now you want them to take on the hellknights (who are practically untouched by recent events in their citadel safe for a small number that was in the city during the unrest), a huge naval taskforce with marines and probably some demons, and all the loyalists in the city (nobles, traders, city guard, clerics, ...) - all at the same time, right as the city starts to calm down.
If you could link the recent events to the house of Thrune, maybe. But that was a home brewed evil by long time locals.
Zooman wrote: So where does that leave the heroes? With bigger challenges for sure. Does anyone have any idea of how things might play out from here? They are a group of powerful individuals with a loyal following in on of the largest cities on the planet. My instinct says siege, and a long one. Westcrown is not that large. Perhaps a hundred thousand after the recent events. Dependent on food imports, yet in enemy territory surrounded by the largest navy of the world.
Unless the players have prepared for open rebellion for months, they should fail whatever they do. By now they should realize that planning is important and that if you fail to plan ahead and prepare you fail.
Zooman wrote: Long enough to stir up the enemies of Cheliax? They certainly aren't well liked by their neighbors or even many of the citizens within the empire. Could a rebelling Westcrown ignite a civil war that leads to the fall of house Thrune, especially when there is a group of heroes traveling and fanning the flames? They certainly can bring down Cheliax if they prepare well ahead of open confrontation. An open uprising should fail. However teleporting to the capital and killing the Queen while loyal followers prepare Westcrown for the next civil war could end in Westcrown becoming the capital of a new Cheliax under the rule of a PC.
Likewise they could cause uprisings in other cities, but I think this is really a scenario where you need to cut of the head first. Of course getting to the Queen and ensuring that she can't be brought back from death will be a real challenge.
Yes there are reasons that it might be difficult. And I could refute each of the 'you'r wrongs' but I'm more looking to run a fantasy champaign that has epic adventure.
Why didn't the humans just bomb the Navi from space or move their drilling operation more than 500km? cause that would have made a lame movie.
I'm kinda fishing for hints as to what might be fun. Like working with the bellflower network. Halflings are fun. Or laying siege to citadel Rivad.
|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
Who are the Navi and what do they have to do with the situation?
Anyway, I think the best thing they could do is let things calm down while they start to make serious preparations for what they want to archive. Do they want to free Westcrown or all of Cheliax?
Regardless of what their choice is, attacking the Hellknights doesn't further their aims. The Hellknights are independent Orders dedicated to law, not part of the military of Cheliax. There's no need to attack them and any attack would provoke massive reprisal from the other Hellknight Orders. If Westcrown officially rebels and follows the party, most of the city should be razed by devils while the party and their troops are laying siege to the citadel. At least unless they took some measures to ensure no devils could teleport in.
A better choice might be going after the House of Thrune directly, rather than trying anything in or about Westcrown directly. You could run it as a social game (meeting lots of nobles, gathering allies, assassinating nobles unwilling to assist - basically what the siblings did in Westcrown for all of Cheliax) or as a quest to find the source of House Thrune's power - what deals did they make with devils? Maybe infiltrating Hell - IIRC a place was mentioned where copies of all contracts are kept. So the party could try and find out what these contracts are and find a way to sabotage them. Or they could try to infiltrate the palace and kill the Queen. Of course removing the most direct inheritors first would go a long way in preventing a smooth transition in power. And her named and leveled Pit Fiend body guards would probably wipe them out at their current level.
The most important aspect in all of this is to not let the players get away with any hasty and unprepared action. They are up against an enemy that keeps Pit Fiends on retainer and can teleport large demon armies in with no notice - and has many high level figures working for it along with all the typical resources of a large national state. The resources of the Council of Thieves or even all of Westcrown are small compared to Cheliax - if you ignore that any victory the party gets will be spoiled by how easy and unrealistic it was.
You mention the Bellflower Network - a good example of avoiding any direct attention and only operating in the shadows, never challenging Cheliax directly or providing a fixed target to attack.
When planning the campaign it would probably be a good idea to assume that the two only things harder than defeating Cheliax are healing the Worldwound and killing a god.
The Navi are the native blue catlike people in the movie Avatar... :-)
Gworeth wrote: The Navi are the native blue catlike people in the movie Avatar... :-) Never got around to watch it. Now there's just another reason not to. :-)
Anyway, another idea for a good campaign might be that the Queen of Cheliax is already dead and some Archdevil is impersonating her for its own purposes. Maybe preparing to tear open a second Worldwound? Or maybe actively trying to prevent demons from doing the same? So if the party gets involved they might make things worse for everyone and then need to clean up.
Or maybe the Queen has been converted/replaced by a follower/spawn of Rovagug and is trying to get the Key to the prison from Asmodeus. Alternatively Cheliax comes under attack from a spawn of Rovagug trying to use the connection between the Queen/nation and hell to somehow acquire the Key.
Perhaps the Hellknights were impressed by the party and word reached the Order of the Gate - and they need help against forces from beyond (Leng? Hell? Abyss? Plane of Shadows? An elemental plane? Somewhere else entirely?). The party gets told that unless the attack is repelled the results would be disastrous. But is that correct? And disastrous for whom? The Hellknights? Cheliax? All of humanity? Or maybe the whole region?
Don't forget that Hellknights are Lawful about all else and most are LN, not evil. And they don't answer to Cheliax, so they would probably tell the party the truth, but the truth as they see it.
Recent threads in Council of Thieves
|
