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The weapon size rules on page 144 of the Core Rulebook only seem to apply to melee weapons.
According to these rules, a small longbow would be deemed a "one-handed" weapon. Does this mean that all ranged weapons that require 2 hands to wield normally and also in a smaller form, cannot be used if they are 1 size category smaller?
Has this ever been clarified anywhere else?
I would think that weapons like bows should still be usuable if 1 size category smaller?
I am also curious if a one-handed crossbow reduced in size would then act as a light weapon for the purposes two-weapon fighting? The rules would also seem to imply that you could, but I would think that this should only apply to weapons with this "special propery" included in their description, since there is no "light ranged" weapon category?
If a crossbow can be reduced to give it the "light weapon" property then could a two-handed crossbow be reduced 2 sizes to gain this? I would think that after reducing the weapon 2 sizes, there is no way in "heck" that you are going to be able to get your finger on the small trigger, especially if the trigger has a guard. (But maybe I am just overthinking what are supposed to be uncomplicated game mechanics now :)
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In the absence of any such rules I would recommend the following:
A bow may be reduced in size by one size increment and still be usable as a two-handed ranged weapon, albeit with the -2 inappropriately sized weapon penalty.
A two-handed crossbow may be reduced in size by one size increment and still be usable as a one-handed ranged weapon, albeit with the -2 inappropriately sized weapon penalty.
A one-handed crossbow reduced in size can't be wielded.
The weapon size rules on page 144 of the Core Rulebook only seem to apply to melee weapons.
According to these rules, a small longbow would be deemed a "one-handed" weapon. Does this mean that all ranged weapons that require 2 hands to wield normally and also in a smaller form, cannot be used if they are 1 size category smaller?
Has this ever been clarified anywhere else?
I would think that weapons like bows should still be usuable if 1 size category smaller?
I am also curious if a one-handed crossbow reduced in size would then act as a light weapon for the purposes two-weapon fighting? The rules would also seem to imply that you could, but I would think that this should only apply to weapons with this "special propery" included in their description, since there is no "light ranged" weapon category?
If a crossbow can be reduced to give it the "light weapon" property then could a two-handed crossbow be reduced 2 sizes to gain this? I would think that after reducing the weapon 2 sizes, there is no way in "heck" that you are going to be able to get your finger on the small trigger, especially if the trigger has a guard. (But maybe I am just overthinking what are supposed to be uncomplicated game mechanics now :)
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In the absence of any such rules I would recommend the following:
A bow may be reduced in size by one size increment and still be usable as a two-handed ranged weapon, albeit with the -2 inappropriately sized weapon penalty.
A two-handed crossbow may be reduced in size by one size increment and still be usable as a one-handed ranged weapon, albeit with the -2 inappropriately sized weapon penalty.
A one-handed crossbow reduced in size can't be wielded.
You need to take the Feat Exotic Weapon Proficiency:Hand Crossbow and then take the Feat Two Weapon Fighting. All bows are two handed except for crossbows which can be shot one handed but you need two hands to reload, regardless of size with appropriate penalties. See item description of Crossbow,Hand on page 145 and then refer to page 202 as it states, in the PF Core Rule Book. Also when you decrease a weapon's size you decrease the size of the ammunition which in turn decreases the amount of damage it does. Therefore your light crossbow that at medium sized does 1d8 at small size only does 1d6 and at tiny does 1d3. Also on page 144 under "Inappropriately sized weapons" it states that for each size category of difference incurs a cumulative -2 penalty that stacks on the -4 penalty of not being proficient with it. As you can see there are rules for it, just gotta find them ;)
You need to take the Feat Exotic Weapon Proficiency:Hand Crossbow and then take the Feat Two Weapon Fighting. All bows are two handed except for crossbows which can be shot one handed but you need two hands to reload, regardless of...
This :p
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The weapon size rules on page 144 of the Core Rulebook only seem to apply to melee weapons.
According to these rules, a small longbow would be deemed a "one-handed" weapon. Does this mean that all ranged weapons that require 2 hands to wield normally and also in a smaller form, cannot be used if they are 1 size category smaller?
Using a weapon of the wrong size results in two effects. The first is a -2 to hit for each size category. The second is a change in the effort category (light, one handed, two handed). The first applies to all weapons. The second applies to melee weapons only. So, a Medium creature can use a Small longbow at a -2 penalty and no other effects.
There were variant rules in D&D 3.5 to handle this differently, and are certainly usable.
Using a weapon of the wrong size results in two effects. The first is a -2 to hit for each size category. The second is a change in the effort category (light, one handed, two handed). The first applies to all weapons. The second applies to melee weapons only. So, a Medium creature can use a Small longbow at a -2 penalty and no other effects.
The problem that exists (which is why I posted), is that the rules for Weapon Size do not refer to melee or ranged weapons.
I need to find an "official" ruling somewhere (although I suspect there may have never been one). I thought that perhaps it would have been addressed for 3.5 edition, but I can't find a ruling.
If you can direct me to any "official" references to what you posted, then I would appreciate a link. Although in principle I agree with your interpretation, and my house rules reflect the same (albeit I would only allow creatures to use a ranged weapon up to 1 size category smaller than them, and no sizes that are larger than them) there is no mention of this in the rules. Going by your interpretaion, a character could use a tiny longbow or a huge crossbow.
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| 1 person marked this as FAQ candidate. |
The problem that exists (which is why I posted), is that the rules for Weapon Size do not refer to melee or ranged weapons.
The catorization of degree of effort (light, one-handed, and two-handed), relates to melee weapons only. It is a statistic associated with melee weapons only.
This designation is a measure of how much effort it takes to wield a weapon in combat. It indicates whether a melee weapon, when wielded by a character of the weapon's size category, is considered a light weapon, a one-handed weapon, or a two-handed weapon. (bold added)
Therefore, the 2nd paragraph in Weapon Size, sub-section Inappropriately Sized Weapons, applies only to melee weapons; that is the paragraph about scaling along the light, one-handed, two-handed series, relates to melee weapons only.
The confusion comes up because ranged weapons require a certain number of hands to use. A longbow takes two hands, for example. This is a description of use, not a categorization of effort of use.
A few of additional points help illustrate this: If you look at the weapon tables, they are sorted by Simple, Martial, and Exotic. Within each of these, they are sorted again by light melee weapon, one-handed melee weapon, two-handed melee weapon, and ranged weapon.
The last point is that a ballista, by definition, is "essentially a Huge heavy crossbow fixed in place...." the rules go on to apply -4 for Medium creatures to use, and -6 for a Small creature to use. (p. 435)
Two-weapon fighting rules can be used with ranged weapons, and have statements about how to apply the effort of use modifiers for TWF to those ranged weapons for this purpose. Why is this needed? Because ranged weapons do not inherently have an effort of use statistic. (p. 202)
Going by your interpretaion, a character could use a tiny longbow or a huge crossbow.
By, RAW, not only is there no prohibition, but the ballista description directly supports it.
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Hope this helps.