[Frog God Games] The Tome of Horrors Complete (PF RPG and S&W)


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Frog God Games

Kthulhu wrote:

I'm wondering about just a few things:

Will the contents of the appendices be included? I know you mentioned the N’Gathau, so that's covered...what about the new rules for snakes (ToH Revised), planes of existence (ToH2 / ToH3), and the additional feats (ToH2 / ToH3)?

If its in TOHR, TOH2, or TOH3, it's in there. Though I think the feat Death's Blessing will probably disappear since it's already covered by PF RPG rules, maybe some other feats like that too. The planes will stay, though.


Stereofm wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:

If there will be two versions of each monsters, we might face a mighty confusion when a Paizo product will include a ToHR monster with one version of the stats and the ToHC will have another version

Pale/tsathogga/Greg - please, consider this.
Just blame the proteans or Kae yoss, and you'll be fine :)

There's still a difference between these two?

I thought I *was* the Maelstrom!

Frog God Games

Gorbacz wrote:

I'd like to petition for ToHC having Paizo stats for the monsters that already were in the APs/B1/B2.

If there will be two versions of each monsters, we might face a mighty confusion when a Paizo product will include a ToHR monster with one version of the stats and the ToHC will have another version. This might come up in PFS as well.

I'm not asking to exclude Shadow Demons, Gryphs, Sea Serpents etc - I merely ask to use Paizo stats for them in ToHC.

Pale/tsathogga/Greg - please, consider this.

Most should be similar, but I left it to the discretion of the converters. There shouldn't be confusion, though, as the stat blocks will have to cite their source when used.


Brian E. Harris wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
If there will be two versions of each monsters, we might face a mighty confusion when a Paizo product will include a ToHR monster with one version of the stats and the ToHC will have another version. This might come up in PFS as well.

I don't really see the issue here - Paizo products will use Paizo's published stats. The PFS-legal version will be the Paizo version.

Plus, I guess that once these critters are converted, Paizo will not convert them all over again, even if some of the CTOH will appear in future Bestiaries. If they use tome critters in future bestiaries, they'll probably be CTOH versions reprinted.

It would be interesting to know about that, by the way: Now that all these critters will get a Pathfinder update, will Paizo still put them into Bestiaries? I'm sure we'll see many of these critters in modules and such, but will they find their way into Bestiary 3, 4?

If so, will you reprint the stats or adjust them?

Silver Crusade

Greg A. Vaughan wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:

I'd like to petition for ToHC having Paizo stats for the monsters that already were in the APs/B1/B2.

If there will be two versions of each monsters, we might face a mighty confusion when a Paizo product will include a ToHR monster with one version of the stats and the ToHC will have another version. This might come up in PFS as well.

I'm not asking to exclude Shadow Demons, Gryphs, Sea Serpents etc - I merely ask to use Paizo stats for them in ToHC.

Pale/tsathogga/Greg - please, consider this.

Most should be similar, but I left it to the discretion of the converters. There shouldn't be confusion, though, as the stat blocks will have to cite their source when used.

C'mon neutral Forlarren neutral Forlarren neutral Forlarren


Greg A. Vaughan wrote:


Pretty much just straight conversions. We're trying to keep tinkering to a minimum and not fix stuff unless its broken. Since the conversions are about 95% done now and just awaiting the final turnovers, we're not going to be able to do much to switch directions at this point. So in many, many of the monsters the changes other than the renaming of some skills (and re-allocating points), adding some feats, and adding CMB and CMD are going to be negligible.

Hmm... does that mean that their CR and stats weren't cross-checked? I haven't checked many ToH critters, but many of the basic SRD critters did get considerable boosts in PF, and it's possible that a similar percentage of ToH critters is similarly off.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

*cough* 3.5 undead vs. PF undead *cough*


KaeYoss wrote:
Greg A. Vaughan wrote:


Pretty much just straight conversions. We're trying to keep tinkering to a minimum and not fix stuff unless its broken. Since the conversions are about 95% done now and just awaiting the final turnovers, we're not going to be able to do much to switch directions at this point. So in many, many of the monsters the changes other than the renaming of some skills (and re-allocating points), adding some feats, and adding CMB and CMD are going to be negligible.
Hmm... does that mean that their CR and stats weren't cross-checked? I haven't checked many ToH critters, but many of the basic SRD critters did get considerable boosts in PF, and it's possible that a similar percentage of ToH critters is similarly off.

I think that you're reading far too much into what Greg said. Since he was specifically answering the question about whether or not there would be any monster tweaking like was done in the Beastiaries, I would assume that's what he meant by "straight conversions".

The team working on these conversions are top-notch so I don't think that you need to worry about the monsters not getting a proper boost and/or a challenge-rating adjustment.

I know that you only ask because you care.

:D

Liberty's Edge

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Pale wrote:
The team working on these conversions are top-notch

Who?....;)

Grand Lodge

Brian E. Harris wrote:
Gorbacz wrote:
If there will be two versions of each monsters, we might face a mighty confusion when a Paizo product will include a ToHR monster with one version of the stats and the ToHC will have another version. This might come up in PFS as well.

I don't really see the issue here - Paizo products will use Paizo's published stats. The PFS-legal version will be the Paizo version.

Personally, if possible, I'd like to see a re-imagining of the monster, though I don't know that this is something they're shooting for.

Yeah I actually would like to see different presentations of the same critters. The reason is that when I pull up a critter to throw at my group they will probably know everything there is to know about its Paizo version. But throwing out the TOHC version will leave them guessing and actually put some suspense into combat again.

Frog God Games

Pale wrote:
KaeYoss wrote:
Greg A. Vaughan wrote:


Pretty much just straight conversions. We're trying to keep tinkering to a minimum and not fix stuff unless its broken. Since the conversions are about 95% done now and just awaiting the final turnovers, we're not going to be able to do much to switch directions at this point. So in many, many of the monsters the changes other than the renaming of some skills (and re-allocating points), adding some feats, and adding CMB and CMD are going to be negligible.
Hmm... does that mean that their CR and stats weren't cross-checked? I haven't checked many ToH critters, but many of the basic SRD critters did get considerable boosts in PF, and it's possible that a similar percentage of ToH critters is similarly off.

I think that you're reading far too much into what Greg said. Since he was specifically answering the question about whether or not there would be any monster tweaking like was done in the Beastiaries, I would assume that's what he meant by "straight conversions".

The team working on these conversions are top-notch so I don't think that you need to worry about the monsters not getting a proper boost and/or a challenge-rating adjustment.

I know that you only ask because you care.

:D

Yep, the "straight conversion" to PF RPG includes making them fit the PF RPG CR and power levels. Some HD will change, etc.

Frog God Games

Dragnmoon wrote:
Pale wrote:
The team working on these conversions are top-notch
Who?....;)

Top...men...

Dark Archive

Greg A. Vaughan wrote:
Dragnmoon wrote:
Pale wrote:
The team working on these conversions are top-notch
Who?....;)
Top...men...

So it's already been boxed up and stuck in a warehouse to collect dust?

Liberty's Edge

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Greg A. Vaughan wrote:
Dragnmoon wrote:
Pale wrote:
The team working on these conversions are top-notch
Who?....;)
Top...men...

Took long enough for someone to answer that... though I would have accepted

Top...notch...

Paizo Employee Director of Game Development

Greg A. Vaughan wrote:
Dragnmoon wrote:
Pale wrote:
The team working on these conversions are top-notch
Who?....;)
Top...men...

Er...and women.


While they are of both genders, most are humanoids, but their are some outsiders and at least one aberrant also working on the project.

Sorry, no subtypes, that would be too much detail. ;)

(I didn't answer before because I actually don't know EVERYONE involved and didn't want to leave people out or give the impression that some people were worth mentioning while other weren't. I also want to not be the guy who caused a flood of e-mails to clog up anyones inbox. <grin>)


Greg A. Vaughan wrote:


Yep, the "straight conversion" to PF RPG includes making them fit the PF RPG CR and power levels. Some HD will change, etc.

Great!


Adam Daigle wrote:
Greg A. Vaughan wrote:
Dragnmoon wrote:
Pale wrote:
The team working on these conversions are top-notch
Who?....;)
Top...men...
Er...and women.

Ah, good. I was about to remark on this myself :D.

You know how not making sure your remarks are gender neutral can get you into tremendous trouble these days.

Liberty's Edge

Paizo Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Companion, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
KaeYoss wrote:

Ah, good. I was about to remark on this myself :D.

You know how not making sure your remarks are gender neutral can get you into tremendous trouble these days.

Yeah but the Line in Raiders of the Lost Ark is not "Top...Men...and Women"

That is like having Spielberg go back to ET and replace all the Rifles with Walkie Talkies!!

oh....wait...

Dark Archive

Dragnmoon wrote:
KaeYoss wrote:

Ah, good. I was about to remark on this myself :D.

You know how not making sure your remarks are gender neutral can get you into tremendous trouble these days.

Yeah but the Line in Raiders of the Lost Ark is not "Top...Men...and Women"

That is like having Spielberg go back to ET and replace all the Rifles with Walkie Talkies!!

oh....wait...

Yes thats why I commented about it being boxed away and collecting dust. I was wondering if anyone else was going to get it.


This will be limited to 500 printings?
If that is the case,it will definately become a collectable.

However, I hope I am wrong.
I don't want to try and buy one off eBay for some ridiculous price.

Liberty's Edge

Adam Daigle wrote:
Greg A. Vaughan wrote:
Dragnmoon wrote:
Pale wrote:
The team working on these conversions are top-notch
Who?....;)
Top...men...
Er...and women.

Let me find out you bought a new dress...

The Exchange

Nemo235 wrote:

This will be limited to 500 printings?

If that is the case,it will definately become a collectable.

However, I hope I am wrong.
I don't want to try and buy one off eBay for some ridiculous price.

The first printing will be limited to 500 copies. These will generate revenue for a larger print run.

At least that's how I understood the post up-thread.


So I'm curious. At this point, we cannot preorder them, and it is unknown whether we can order them from the Paizo website or only directly from Frog God?

I just know that I never get to go to cons due to being working poor, so if they aren't available for online purchase, I won't be able to get one. I've bought every ToH so far since they came out, and I don't want to miss this one.


The first print run is currently projected to be 500 copies. We will print more if we have to, we like makin' the moolah!

A pre-order hasn't been set up at this point but with how many people are asking about it, I don't doubt that it will happen soon. I can't say for sure since that's Bill's area.

I can say for certain that you will be able to purchase the print version online from Frog God Games as we have done for all of our print versions. We sell only see our PDFs through other sites.

Silver Crusade

Pale wrote:


A pre-order hasn't been set up at this point but with how many people are asking about it, I don't doubt that it will happen soon. I can't say for sure since that's Bill's area.

I can say for certain that you will be able to purchase the print version online from Frog God Games as we have done for all of our print versions.

Aces.

Shadow Lodge

Pale wrote:

A pre-order hasn't been set up at this point but with how many people are asking about it, I don't doubt that it will happen soon. I can't say for sure since that's Bill's area.

I can say for certain that you will be able to purchase the print version online from Frog God Games as we have done for all of our print versions.

Any word on whether Tsar subscribers will get first shot, like we did with Swords & Wizardry: Complete Rulebook? I hope to get both versions pre-ordered.


Assuming this clocks in at 100 bucks or around that, I'll be getting a preorder for it once it becomes available. If it is more, I'll still get it, but will likely have to time it around the beginning of a semester. (Sweet GI Bill money)

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

once you sell out of the first run of 500, and start the 2nd run, will you fix any known errata before 2nd printing, or just a straight re-print?


Greg A. Vaughan wrote:
Dragnmoon wrote:
Pale wrote:
The team working on these conversions are top-notch
Who?....;)
Top...men...

Indeed :)

-Scott


JoelF847 wrote:
once you sell out of the first run of 500, and start the 2nd run, will you fix any known errata before 2nd printing, or just a straight re-print?

I would say we'll fix errata...except for the "black salad" typo from ToH 1. That one might need to stay :)

-Scott

Shadow Lodge

tsathogga wrote:
... the S&W version MAY be less than the PF version 9simply because of printing costs/less page count by 300 or so.

From that, can I assume that the S&W version will not attempt a 1 monster / page approach?


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Pale wrote:

Oh, and here's a list of the 735 entries culled from the indeces of the 3 Tomes of Horror.

** spoiler omitted **...

What daemons were going to be included, if I may ask? (I see the general mention of them but not the particular daemons listed here)

Otherwise, really looking forward to this. I never got TOH2 or TOH3 or the ToHRevised pdf. I really liked the things you guys did with the ToH1 tho, so I'm really revved up.

Shadow Lodge

Dreaming Psion wrote:
What daemons were going to be included, if I may ask? (I see the general mention of them but not the particular daemons listed here)

Hmmm....didn't notice that before.

Cacodaemon
Charon (Boatman of the Lower Planes)
Charonadaemon
Derghodaemon
Hydrodaemon
Oinodaemon
Piscodaemon

That's the daemons from the ToH.

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Companion Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber
Kthulhu wrote:
Dreaming Psion wrote:
What daemons were going to be included, if I may ask? (I see the general mention of them but not the particular daemons listed here)

Hmmm....didn't notice that before.

Cacodaemon
Charon (Boatman of the Lower Planes)
Charonadaemon
Derghodaemon
Hydrodaemon
Oinodaemon
Piscodaemon

That's the daemons from the ToH.

So all but Charon and the Oinodaemon are redundant if you have Bestiary 2. The Oinodaemon is on the right CR range for a unique outsider lord (CR 37, James Jacobs has said his idea for the Demon Lords is CR 35-ish) but Charon is far too low (CR 23, though if you consider him a nascent outsider lord then he'd be ok - the idea is 21-25 for demon lords in training.)

Shadow Lodge

Kvantum wrote:
So all but Charon and the Oinodaemon are redundant if you have Bestiary 2.

Your mileage may vary. Personally, I like having variant versions of monsters. And with the duplication between ToHC and the Bestiaries, I won't even have to do any work to have those variants.

Grand Lodge

Kthulhu wrote:
Kvantum wrote:
So all but Charon and the Oinodaemon are redundant if you have Bestiary 2.
Your mileage may vary. Personally, I like having variant versions of monsters. And with the duplication between ToHC and the Bestiaries, I won't even have to do any work to have those variants.

+1

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

Also, B2 Cacodaemon is completely different from ToH Cacodaemon. They share a name and that's it.

Frog God Games

Dark_Mistress wrote:
Dragnmoon wrote:
KaeYoss wrote:

Ah, good. I was about to remark on this myself :D.

You know how not making sure your remarks are gender neutral can get you into tremendous trouble these days.

Yeah but the Line in Raiders of the Lost Ark is not "Top...Men...and Women"

That is like having Spielberg go back to ET and replace all the Rifles with Walkie Talkies!!

oh....wait...

Yes thats why I commented about it being boxed away and collecting dust. I was wondering if anyone else was going to get it.

I got it, DM. And I appreciated it. I just didn't feel I could improve on it. :-)

For the other stuff, yep, 500 is the initial print run only. I assume there will be enough interest for additional prints. It will be avialble for sale online primarily. Not sure about the Gen Con sale of it, that'll depend on the timing and preorders and stuff.

If we see some errata that looks to be worth fixing, I think we'll try to clean it up for future print runs if that works with Chuck's layout stuff. I don't want to have to do his thng twice on this beast, though.


Greg A. Vaughan wrote:

For the other stuff, yep, 500 is the initial print run only. I assume there will be enough interest for additional prints. It will be avialble for sale online primarily. Not sure about the Gen Con sale of it, that'll depend on the timing and preorders and stuff.

Thank you! A lot of us would be distraught if the book sale debuted at GenCon whereas a number of us would not get a chance to go to lay claim to 'the precioussssssss'.

I have a feeling you're going to sell out the initial print run based on the title's inherent nostalgia with a lot of the grognards here. And with those proceeds, hopefully it'll give you a nice seed for the next one. =)


I am going to do first printing pre-orders before we release at a Con; you will have an opportunity to get one.


tsathogga wrote:
I am going to do first printing pre-orders before we release at a Con; you will have an opportunity to get one.

If there are 499 pre-orders, whomever dares step into the 500th slot will die a horrible death. There will be no save nor spell resistance to hide behind. The One Book shall be mine.

;p


So, is it to late (or to early) to start providing our email addresses (via "spoiler" tags) for possible notification regarding the pre-order of this most wondrous tome?

If it's not (to late or early) here's mine:

Spoiler:
deansiemsen1@hotmail.com

Best Regards,

Dean; The_Minstrel_Wyrm


I am quite confidant that Bill and/or Greg will let us all know when we can preorder this tome. I only hope that we eager buyers don't crash his website when the preorder does go up. I am getting the feeling that this item in particular is going to be heavily in demand by all the excitement stirred up here and on the Necromancer boards.

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

I've had a tab open to Frog God ever since I saw this announcement. I keep refreshing, hoping for a way to pre-order.

Let Me Give You My Money, Frog God!

The Exchange

Just curious.... is it possible for you to set the price based on the 500 cost printing and then give it a week or two to see if you get more so you could up the number with the printer? Technically best of both worlds? I'm really looking forward to getting this, but don't want to miss out by clicking the order button too late!


Alizor--I'll keep the print cost as low as humanly possible. That being said, it MUST have a (very expensive) stitch binding.


Joe, pre-orders in about 2 months...rest your reset button until March:)


tsathogga wrote:
Joe, pre-orders in about 2 months...rest your reset button until March:)

Oh. Awesome! We have a date/month announcement. Cool. (Hmmm income tax time... yes, yes... very nice).

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