[Frog God Games] The Tome of Horrors Complete (PF RPG and S&W)


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Frog God Games

Just announced by Bill Webb on another thread:

"Frog God games is pleased to announce Tome of Horrors Complete

This book will be released in 2 formats; Swords and Wizardry and Pathfinder. It will consist of a huge volume encompassing all three Necromancer Games Tome of Horror volumes. Release date is Summer 2011, and retail price is TBD. This will be hardcover release. This massive Tome will contain almost 1000 monsters retstatted and reworked for both game systems, all in one place.

This is the largest, most comprehensive monster book ever released. Each monster is individually illustrated.

Let the discussion begin!"


AWESOME!!!

Seriously, that news is like +1,000,000,000

But I fear for the price tag... :P

Oh, and Greg... shouldn't that be Summer 2011?


Not too long ago we were all talking about how thick one of the recent Pathfinder hardcovers were to the point it could be used as a lethal weapon. Now this sucker is seriously going to allow for some shield bonuses in addition to incapacitating someone when swung across their head. XD

Definitely looking forward to teasers along the way.

Paizo Employee Director of Game Development

So happy that this is announced. It's one less lock on my tongue. :)

I hope folks love the heck out of it once it's released, because I'm certainly looking forward to it.

Frog God Games

1 billion, eh? I'll take that as a positive response. :-)

And...I don't know what you're talking about. ;-)

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber

1000 monsters. Wow.

Liberty's Edge RPG Superstar 2008 Top 32, 2011 Top 16

Will the book exclude monsters that are in the Bestiary and Bestiary 2?


Greg A. Vaughan wrote:

1 billion, eh? I'll take that as a positive response. :-)

And...I don't know what you're talking about. ;-)

Heh heh.

Frog God Games

Ryan. Costello wrote:
1000 monsters. Wow.

It's closer to around 750 IIRC. TOHR is hugemongous and TOH2 and TOH3 got progressively smaller. Still a truckload.


Greg A. Vaughan wrote:
Ryan. Costello wrote:
1000 monsters. Wow.
It's closer to around 750 IIRC. TOHR is hugemongous and TOH2 and TOH3 got progressively smaller. Still a truckload.

Just reposting from the other thread...

I assume that some creatures are not going to make the cut. The other question - will there be any new ones making an appearance?

Frog God Games

Some answers to questions I posted on the other thread:

"The art will be in black and white since we're princiaplly reusing the art that already exists in the 3.5 TOHR, TOH2, and TOH3.

It is a complete compilation of those three volumes. Yes, there will be crossover with it and the TOH monsters that Paizo has published in their Bestiaries. For the most part these will look really similar, but we did not constrain ourselves to that if we thought we liked another PF interpretation better. So in some cases there may be minor differences between the TOH and Paizo versions--call it regional variations--but I think these are pretty few and far between.

I'm just now getting the conversion turnovers in from our crack staff of PF RPG monster converters and it's looking good, but it's going to take awhile to sift through and edit the 750+ monsters that comprise those three books not to mention getting them through layout.

You're going to see a lot of familiar names from among your favorite PF writers on these conversions, so you know you're getting quality on this.

I'm just excited that Bill has made the announcement so I can finally talk about what we've been working on for the last several months. Yeah!!!"

P.S. Rest assured that Adam Daigle had nothing to do with this product. ;-)

Frog God Games

Current plans are to include every single monster from the 3 originals. I don't know of any plans for new ones at this time. Though if Scott Greene or someone gets a wild hair I suppose that could be subject to change (assuming page count can withstand it), but currently the answer is no.

Liberty's Edge

Sword and Wizardry? Is that an AD&D clone or an OD&D clone, I don't remember...

But, this is freaking cool! I have the original 3.0 ToH hardback, and the three PDFs (ToH 3.5, II and III), and the only one I look at regularly is the 3.0 hardback. I can't help it, I'm a reading Luddite. I prefer the feel of a book in my hands to reading off a monitor.

So, this being a deadwood release is exciting news for me!

Frog God Games

houstonderek wrote:

Sword and Wizardry? Is that an AD&D clone or an OD&D clone, I don't remember...

But, this is freaking cool! I have the original 3.0 ToH hardback, and the three PDFs (ToH 3.5, II and III), and the only one I look at regularly is the 3.0 hardback. I can't help it, I'm a reading Luddite. I prefer the feel of a book in my hands to reading off a monitor.

So, this being a deadwood release is exciting news for me!

It's a 0e clone. See the Sword & Wizardry Complete Rulebook just released by FGG. I'll post a link here in a minute.

And here it is.

Liberty's Edge

Greg A. Vaughan wrote:
houstonderek wrote:

Sword and Wizardry? Is that an AD&D clone or an OD&D clone, I don't remember...

But, this is freaking cool! I have the original 3.0 ToH hardback, and the three PDFs (ToH 3.5, II and III), and the only one I look at regularly is the 3.0 hardback. I can't help it, I'm a reading Luddite. I prefer the feel of a book in my hands to reading off a monitor.

So, this being a deadwood release is exciting news for me!

It's a 0e clone. See the Sword & Wizardry Complete Rulebook just released by FGG. I'll post a link here in a minute.

And here it is.

Cool, so the Sword and Wizardry edition would be a "de-evolution" of popular 1e and original monsters. Coolio!

Paizo Employee Director of Game Development

Greg A. Vaughan wrote:
P.S. Rest assured that Adam Daigle had nothing to do with this product. ;-)

This sounds like a perfectly Vaughanian statement. In truth, I had very, very little to do with it.

Sovereign Court

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Pathfinder Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

Awesome news!

RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

1) Wow, where do I pre-order?
2) Print / PDF bundle? Please?

Dark Archive

Joe Wells wrote:

1) Wow, where do I pre-order?

2) Print / PDF bundle? Please?

FrogGodGames website, but they have not done any preorders of any of their books to date.

And every print edition book you buy from their site you get the book and PDF. Although you can just buy the PDF from them.


Good I am tired of Converting them, and it will be nice to have them all in one document.

Though I wish there was original artwork, I understand why there is not.


Greg A. Vaughan wrote:

Just announced by Bill Webb on another thread:

"Frog God games is pleased to announce Tome of Horrors Complete

This book will be released in 2 formats; Swords and Wizardry and Pathfinder. It will consist of a huge volume encompassing all three Necromancer Games Tome of Horror volumes. Release date is Summer 2011, and retail price is TBD. This will be hardcover release. This massive Tome will contain almost 1000 monsters retstatted and reworked for both game systems, all in one place.

This is the largest, most comprehensive monster book ever released. Each monster is individually illustrated.

Let the discussion begin!"

This is on my 'must buy' list. Thanks Greg!

Dark Archive

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

Disclaimer: I'm actually the guy who came up with the name "Tome of Horrors", years ago on the NG forums.

I... To be honest, I don't know how enthusiastic I am about this, because of the dual system approach. Some of the latter Tome monsters I think would be so strange that "downgrading" them to a OD&D-esque system would result in all of their flavor disappearing. Plus all of the extra space taken up by stats I don't need and won't use. True, a 0e type thing would be like 3 lines, max, but still, what's going to get cut out, dropped, and lost because of it? I'm really not a big fan of multi-statted products. It was my biggest problem with Dragon back in the pre-Paizo days, and it's why I've dropped my Kobold Quarterly subscription.

I'll most likely pick up the PDF, assuming they can keep it under $30, but as for print... I kinda doubt it.

Liberty's Edge

Kvantum wrote:

Disclaimer: I'm actually the guy who came up with the name "Tome of Horrors", years ago on the NG forums.

I... To be honest, I don't know how enthusiastic I am about this, because of the dual system approach. Some of the latter Tome monsters I think would be so strange that "downgrading" them to a OD&D-esque system would result in all of their flavor disappearing. Plus all of the extra space taken up by stats I don't need and won't use. True, a 0e type thing would be like 3 lines, max, but still, what's going to get cut out, dropped, and lost because of it? I'm really not a big fan of multi-statted products. It was my biggest problem with Dragon back in the pre-Paizo days, and it's why I've dropped my Kobold Quarterly subscription.

I'll most likely pick up the PDF, assuming they can keep it under $30, but as for print... I kinda doubt it.

They're doing two different books, one for PF, one for the other game, at leas that's what I understood by "two formats".

If I'm mistaken, that might put a damper on my hardcopy desire as well.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Will you keep the PFRPG stats for the monsters that were already updated by Paizo ? Because between the Bestiary, ToHC and Forgotten Foes we could be looking at three different statblocks for one monster ...

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Greg A. Vaughan wrote:


"The art will be in black and white since we're princiaplly reusing the art that already exists in the 3.5 TOHR, TOH2, and TOH3.

This I am very disappointed in, I understand why you would do this, so you can keep the production cost down, But I would Much rather you get new Art in Color and print the books in Color. I would pay for it.

This is a big reason I keep away from 3PP products, because they go so cheap on art, have terrible art, or go B&W a lot. When I see a book in B&W I literally cringe, and I have not bought books due to that or because of terrible art. One thing I love about Paizo their books looks so beautiful and they don't go cheap on the production on them.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Dragnmoon wrote:
Greg A. Vaughan wrote:


"The art will be in black and white since we're princiaplly reusing the art that already exists in the 3.5 TOHR, TOH2, and TOH3.

This I am very disappointed in, I understand why you would do this, so you can keep the production cost down, But I would Much rather you get new Art in Color and print the books in Color. I would pay for it.

This is a big reason I keep away from 3PP products, because they go so cheap on art, have terrible art, or go B&W a lot. When I see a book in B&W I literally cringe. One thing I love about Paizo their books looks so beautiful and they don't go cheap on the production on them.

While I love full color as well, splashing money up front for 1k color illos ... well, that's three times as much as Paizo had to splash for either Bestiary, AND they recycled as much art as possible.

In terms of cost, 1 piece of monster art = 5 pages of writing. Yes, it's that expensive, and it's a killer for small companies, like Frog God.

Liberty's Edge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber
Gorbacz wrote:

While I love full color as well, splashing money up front for 1k color illos ... well, that's three times as much as Paizo had to splash for either Bestiary, AND they recycled as much art as possible.

In terms of cost, 1 piece of monster art = 5 pages of writing. Yes, it's that expensive, and it's a killer for small companies, like Frog God.

And like I said, a reason If I was not going to buy it, it would be because of this.

Even if just the Lay out was in color and some of the Art was in color, it would be a huge improvement over the whole book in B&W.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

A hardback, Pathfinder ToH?

Now if only it would include monsters from the Creature Collections by WhiteWolf, I'd be a happy Hermit.

Dark Archive

Oh wow, I have the ToHR and ToH2 on PDF, and printed out, but they are so unwieldy to reference for me. An actual book (and with the ToH3 stuff as well) would kick ass mightily!

I suspect that, like Ptolus, this is one of those books that my local gaming store is going to want me to pre-pay for, before they order it, so that they don't end up 'eating it' if I change my mind. :)

I'm fine with black and white, just don't use that stinky ink that WW was using at the end there. Nasty stuff!


Pathfinder Maps, Pathfinder Accessories Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber; Starfinder Charter Superscriber

Holy...! That's awesome news.

Frog God Games

Kvantum wrote:

Disclaimer: I'm actually the guy who came up with the name "Tome of Horrors", years ago on the NG forums.

I... To be honest, I don't know how enthusiastic I am about this, because of the dual system approach. Some of the latter Tome monsters I think would be so strange that "downgrading" them to a OD&D-esque system would result in all of their flavor disappearing. Plus all of the extra space taken up by stats I don't need and won't use. True, a 0e type thing would be like 3 lines, max, but still, what's going to get cut out, dropped, and lost because of it? I'm really not a big fan of multi-statted products. It was my biggest problem with Dragon back in the pre-Paizo days, and it's why I've dropped my Kobold Quarterly subscription.

I'll most likely pick up the PDF, assuming they can keep it under $30, but as for print... I kinda doubt it.

As far as I know, Bill is talking about two separate books. This has been solely a PF RPG project for the last few months I've been working on it, so the S&W addiiton is news to me, but everything else FGG has done for both systems has been in separate volumes, so I would expect the same here. Which would probably make the S&W version a lot cheaper to print and sell if I was to make a guess, since it'll be shorter. If I hear different on this, I'll let you know, but I believe it's two separate books right now.

Frog God Games

Matthew Morris wrote:

A hardback, Pathfinder ToH?

Now if only it would include monsters from the Creature Collections by WhiteWolf, I'd be a happy Hermit.

I checked with Bill on this very thing, but it's a no go. Necromancer doesn't own the rights to them though they were involved in the production to some extent.

Frog God Games

In response to the comments above on art:

Yes, it is B&W recycled from the originals because that's what allows us to make a 1,000-page monster book and not charge $200+ for it. I really think this book will be less than $100, with most of that eaten up by printing the humongous thing. I really can't say for sure because Bill will make the final decision on that when we see all the numbers, but I know that was our goal going into this.

We wanted to make the book COMPLETE.

We wanted to make the book affordable considering its size and scope.

I hope it doesn't disappoint!

Greg


Greg A. Vaughan wrote:

Just announced by Bill Webb on another thread:

"Frog God games is pleased to announce Tome of Horrors Complete

This book will be released in 2 formats; Swords and Wizardry and Pathfinder. It will consist of a huge volume encompassing all three Necromancer Games Tome of Horror volumes. Release date is Summer 2011, and retail price is TBD. This will be hardcover release. This massive Tome will contain almost 1000 monsters retstatted and reworked for both game systems, all in one place.

This is the largest, most comprehensive monster book ever released. Each monster is individually illustrated.

Let the discussion begin!"

I do have all 3 ToH books in PDF format... that I bought legally if I may add, and I love it. So, it's a pretty good news story here; you can NEVER have enough monsters anyway.

Will the books come in PDF formats as well ?


I am sure as with all of Frog God's other books, the PDF will come free with purchase of the book. And just as for their other products, you can purchase just the PDF without the book. Hope that helps.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Greg A. Vaughan wrote:
Matthew Morris wrote:

A hardback, Pathfinder ToH?

Now if only it would include monsters from the Creature Collections by WhiteWolf, I'd be a happy Hermit.

I checked with Bill on this very thing, but it's a no go. Necromancer doesn't own the rights to them though they were involved in the production to some extent.

*sigh* Well I was more talking to myself, but thank you for checking. Do you know if there's a print + PDF bundle? and will it be offered through the Paizo store?

Recycled art is fine for me, well except for Lief Jones' Alu Fiend. That one always bugged me.

Shadow Lodge

I'm not sure which version to be more excited about!

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

OK, art I can live without, BUT:

1. Will it follow the one page = one monster format ? Because if there is anything I didn't like about the ToHRs, it's the wonky layout.

2. Will Universal Monster Rules(tm) format be followed ? With all the common stuff such as Rend or Regeneratio(n) described at the back of the book to make MOAR SPACEZ FOR MONSTARZ ?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Charter Superscriber

I really want a print/PDF bundle. :)

Liberty's Edge

I loved Necromancer Games' Tome of Horror. I only had the first volume so I'm definitely looking forward to this.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Greg A. Vaughan wrote:


This has been solely a PF RPG project for the last few months I've been working on it,

A-HA ! That explains the massive attack of ToH monsters in Vaults of Madness. Well played, G.A.V, well played ...


Lets see;

1. free pdf w/ real book, yes

2. New art would add $25k to the cost of the book; sorry guys, I just don't have $25,000 in my account for that. There may be a few pieces though, to replace what I consider to be the truly weak art pieces in the originals.

Note to Dragnmoom--I think you will find that FGG art is pretty spiffy, even if it is B&W (except covers). I have some of the top artists in the industry--Rick Sardinha (won Gencon best of show like 3x, and Gencon UK once), Rowena Aitken (just Google her if you don't know who she is...but in two words Peter Jackson), Emelio and the rest of his studio in Spain (Conan books for Mongoose etc.).then there is Talon, Rich Smith and the rest of the WW studio guys (Vampire etc, and Monte Cooks guys).Heck we even have a cover by Paul Jaquays.

One committment I made at the start was to have excellent art and better maps (at much lower profit than most 3PP's for that reason); I'll put Robert and Rick against anyone on the mapping side. If you have not seen our stuff yet, let me know and I'll send you a preview:)

3. Color interiors would add about $30k to the production cost for say, 500 books. I don't have that much money either (unless all of you buy lots and lots of our other stuff...jk, there is no way I can come up with $55,000).

4. It will be the whole set; I think body count is near 1000 monsters.

5. Scott and Erica may add a few new ones.

6. I wanted it all in one books for serious "thud" factor. I can also stitch bind it this way for durability. I may do some sort of special cover (leather or faux leather). Still looking at options and price. i want this thing to be "Necronomican" scary like the book in the Evil Dead series.The DM should be able to say "This is my Boom Stick".

7. I really want to keep the price under $100--not sure if I can (talked w/ printer this am to get a work up on 1000 pages @ 500 copies for first run), but I am trying like heck to do so. The pdf will be much cheaper--probably $40 or so.

8. S&W is a retroclone (0e), and totally SRD legal--1e would not be, per se. Illusionists for example are not in the SRD.

Feel free to ask other questions if you like; I'll try to answer them:)

Bill

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

1 monster = 1 page, pretty please ? It's one of the major "epic win" factors of Paizo Bestiaries.

Also, Bill and Greg and Scott and Erica: THANKS. Pathfinderization of ToH series was one of the most often requested 3PP publications. You're making a lot of people very happy.

Grand Lodge

Oh snap.


tsathogga wrote:


6. I wanted it all in one books for serious "thud" factor. I can also stitch bind it this way for durability. I may do some sort of special cover (leather or faux leather). Still looking at options and price. i want this thing to be "Necronomican" scary like the book in the Evil Dead series.The DM should be able to say "This is my Boom Stick".

Oooh!! *Drool* You can put me down for that version.

Also, though I doubt everyone agrees with me, I prefer the interior to include only B/W pictures as they are cheaper for me to print if I need to show my group what a particular monster looks like.


Gorb--yup--1/1 is the plan; much easier to use that way, i think.

Silver Crusade

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
tsathogga wrote:
Gorb--yup--1/1 is the plan; much easier to use that way, i think.

Way to go. It makes bestiaries so much easier to use.

The Exchange RPG Superstar 2010 Top 32

tsathogga wrote:


6. I wanted it all in one books for serious "thud" factor. I can also stitch bind it this way for durability. I may do some sort of special cover (leather or faux leather). Still looking at options and price. i want this thing to be "Necronomican" scary like the book in the Evil Dead series.The DM should be able to say "This is my Boom Stick".

Oh my Lordy Lord - I want that one too! Sign me up on a mailing list to get a preorder/ in-time-order on that bad boy!

Jon Brazer Enterprises

Questions:

If you own ToH 1, 2 and 3, can you get the PDF at a discount?

Is the PFRPG and S&W Crunch in 1 book or in separate books?

And ... incase there was doubt, *excited!!!*


Sorry-- no discounts for 3.0/3.5 owners--its a totally separarte company, and that would be an accounting nightmare.

Tghat being said, the S&W version MAY be less than the PF version 9simply because of printing costs/less page count by 300 or so. Either that or we may add material (e.g. a lair or something) to the S&W version that would be a bonus add on to the PF version as a download...not sure of cost logistics yet.

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