Hello All,
Welcome to my personal mod of Dark Sun for Pathfinder RPG. This is the packet that is going to be distributed to my players in an upcoming Dark Sun game of mine. The people who have taken a look suggested that I should share it with the community, so here it is for your viewing pleasure. A few disclaimers that I feel compelled to share... I tend to take campaign settings and customize some features to make it my own (helps to show the players that reading the source materials might not give them a leg up on the GM and keeps them on their toes). I used a number of source materials in order to help me craft this mod including the 4th ed Campaign setting. Despite the overall lack of popularity, I did like a number of rules and themes and thus incorporated them into my setting, so some things may look familiar. Regardless take a look and tell me what you think. Thanks and I wish you all awesome games in the future!
Introduction: Welcome to the desolate world of Athas, the Dark Sun campaign world. Most of you reading this are familiar with the setting, but for those who are not, Athas is a dying, desert world that has seen many wars over its long, but largely forgotten history. Entire races, common in other settings are all but a distant memory in the minds of the people of Athas. Gnomes, Trolls, Orcs, Ogres and Kobalds are notable examples of species that have been wiped from the face of Athas, although traveler from other planes or solitary hidden tribes may be found in the deep reaches of the waste. Of the races that remain, many are not the cookie cutter variety that you would find on other worlds. Halflings are savage cannibalistic hunters, elves are nomadic raiders and traders and Dwarves are bald... Three other races are commonly found throughout Athas and their stats are detailed below: The half human half dwarven slave race of the Muls, the insectoid hunter race of the Thri-Kreen and the massively built and emotionally unstable Half-giants.
Aside from the people of Athas, another major fact of note is that metal (of all kinds) is extremely rare and as such all weapons commonly available are made from other materials, such as wood, stone, bone and obsidian. The later two materials are detailed below.
As the world has be utterly ravaged by war and magic, the people of Athas tend to be overwhelmingly suspicious and downright hostile towards arcane magic. The source of this fear is a category of arcane spell casters known as defilers. Their wicked spells draw their power from the lifeforce of all those around them, slaying lesser organisms and damaging the very land around them. Becoming a defiler is a choice that each individual arcane caster must make for the reward is rapid advancement in power. Regardless of whether a given arcane caster is a defiler or a preserver (the common name given to “regular” casters that do not defile) they are usually treated as if they were defilers and can be hunted. There is in fact an entire group of people that are devoted to the hunting down and eradicating of such defilers and that is the Templars. The Templars are agents of the Sorcerer-kings and work diligently and often ruthlessly to maintain order in the city-states.
When envisioning where your characters are picture Athas as a massive desert world with a few bastions of civilization that appear to be a cross between the Aztecs and the Ancient Romans with an overarching middle eastern influence. Instead of great expanse of ocean, a great sea of silt exists where sail ships nonetheless continue trade routes and pirate activities. The civilized areas are divided into great city states with each ruled utterly and totally by a Sorcerer-king. All city-states have dubious relations with one another and raiding and outright skirmishes between them is not uncommon. Welcome to Athas, where slavery is common, arcane magic is all but outlawed and water is rare.
New Rules
New Player Races:
Mul Racial Traits
+2 Constitution, +2 Strength, -2 Intellegence: Muls are heavily utilized as slaves and manual workers, and as such have been bred to be strong and hardy but have lost some of their critical thinking skills to keep them subservient and find academic pursuits naturally difficult.
Medium
Normal Speed: Muls have a base speed of 30 ft (6 squares).
Durable: Muls receive Toughness as a bonus feat
Dwarven Blood: Muls count as both Dwarf and human for the purposes of feats and effects
Tireless: Muls require only 8 hours of rest per 72 hours
Survivors: Muls receive a +2 bonus to their Survival Skill
Incredible Toughness: 1/day a Mul may remove one of the following conditions: Fatigued, Sickened or Dazed as an immediate action.
Thri-Kreen Racial Traits
+2 Dexterity, +2 Wisdom, -2 Charisma: As natural hunters, Thri-kreen are quick and cunning, but are also alien in appearance and manner. They only gain a -2 penalty to charisma because they are known throughout Athas and their behavior and mannerisms are not unexpected
Medium
Swift: Thri-kreen have a base speed of 35 Ft (7 squares).
Darkvision: Thri-kreen can see in the dark up to 60 Ft.
Multiple Arms: Thri-kreen have an extra set of small arms that do not posses the strength to wield weapons or shields effectively, but can hold or retrieve items. Thri-kreen can draw one item per round as a swift action and may hold items in their smaller, albeit more dextrous arms. Weapons held in these hands do not threaten the spaces around them. Thri-kreen can use their lower/smaller set of arms for fine manipulation and spell casting and thus still threaten the spaces around them while casting, but may not attack at the same time as their focus is directed to the activity at hand.
Leap of the Locust: Thri-kreen are always treated as having a running start when jumping.
Torpor: Like Elves Thri-kreen only require 4 hours of sleep per day, but unlike elves, they are fully unconscious during this time.
Claws: Thri-kreen gain two primary natural attacks that do a base d4 damage per attack.
Chitin: Having a tough chitinous hides, Thri-kreen gain a +1 natural armor bonus to AC.
Agile: Thri-kreen gain a +2 bonus to Acrobatics skill.
Half-Giant Racial Traits
+4 Strength, -2 Dexterity: Half-giants are incredibly strong but find maneuvering difficult due to their impressive size.
Medium Size
Long Strides: Half-giants have a base speed of 35 Ft (7 squares).
Low-Light Vision: Half-Giants can see twice as far as humans in conditions of dim light.
Powerful Build: Although technically medium, Half-giants are always treated as being large for their CMB and CMD and when looking at any effects that depend on size (such as grab, swallow, etc.). This includes how much space they take up when swallowed and with similar abilities (i.e. when swallowed, Half-giants count as being large in terms of how much space in the stomach they take up). They also are considered large for the purposes of their carrying capacity (i.e. X2 carrying capacity). They do not however gain any reach and do not take up a 10 Ft square themselves nor can they wield “large” weapons.
Large and in charge: Half-giants are very unstable and can be very intimating gaining a +2 bonus to their intimidate skill. Likewise they are not known for their good manners or self control and receive a -2 to their Diplomacy skill.
Large appetite: Half-giants also require lots of food to sustain their massive stature and take twice the amount of food (not water) that normal medium creatures require.
Hard to hide: Due to their semi large physiques, Half-Giants receive a -2 penalty to their Stealth skill.
Classes
No Gods remain, or at least have any semblance of organized followers on Athas. As such, Clerics devoted to such beings are virtually unheard of and those that do exist are either astral travelers or people who happened to have found an ancient manuscript that details the old ways of worship, making you perhaps the only follower in the world. Most Clerics that do exist are devoted to an ideal or the elements and derive their power from those sources. Open worship of any deity within the confines of a City-State, other than the residing Sorcerer-King, is expressly forbidden and is often met with a Death Sentence.
All arcane classes exist and NPCs can be defilers. This option is not available to PCs in my game. Defilers gain the following:
Defiling: When a Defiler casts a spell, they draw spell power from the life force of everything around them. The defiling does a d6 of negative energy damage at a 10 foot radius burst surrounding the Defiler when they cast a first level spell. When and as they gain access to higher level spells they may choose to either extend the radius by 5 feet or increase the damage by a d6 negative energy and apply that to any spell of the new spell level. All lower level spells retain their rate of defiling (i.e. first level spells will always be 10 foot radius at d6 damage). This choice must be made once the defiler gains access to the new spell level and cannot be changed once the decision has been made for each spell level. This ability creates a pool of damage that bursts forth from the caster. The closest organisms are affected first, including plant life robust enough to have hit points (grass and sprouts do not count but are nonetheless destroyed). Each organism takes up to its remaining hit points in damage (bringing PCs to -1 hit points) and then spillover damage goes onto the next closest organism until the damage pool is spent. Targets receive a saving throw (Fort DC 10+Spell level+Cha modifier). A successful save means the target is reduced to half its remaining hit points. With that damage being taken from the pool and the effect moving on to the next closest target. Any damage that is left over once all eligible targets have taken damage is reduced by 5. Any remaining damage after the 5 is taken directly from the Defiler without any saving throw to reduce damage. The 5 points you subtract represents the land itself being defiled before the Defiler. Orisons do not cause a noticeable level of defiling to cause damage. The benefit is that the Defiler adds a +1 DC to all spells they casts. Defilers receive a +1 to their CR.
Templars are either Inquisitors or Oracles with the Battle Mystery.
Spells that create water have their spell level increased by 2. Create water is now a 2nd level spell.
Paladins are now totally changed in concept and are no longer the “paladins” of other game settings. In Dark Sun they are a class of Gladiators with two variants; Hero's and Tyrants (Paladins and Anti-paladins respectively) that Draw their power from the roar of the crowds and their reputations in the Ring which provides them class benefits (regardless of being in the Ring or not.
All Gladiators may be of any alignment, their choice of being a Hero or Tyrant merely suggests their “Ring” personal/demeanor and does not reflect on their actual nature.
Gladiators do not have Auras of Good or Evil, and cannot detect Evil or Good
Smite- Gladiators may declare a target of ANY alignment or creature type as its smite target and gain a bonus to hit equal to its Charisma and a bonus to damage equal to its Gladiator Level. Note that they no longer get any special bonuses to hitting undead, evil outsiders and the like.
Upon taking their first level in Gladiator the player must choose Hero or Tyrant. This represent the Gladiators Stage persona. Heros follow the abilities, lay on hands, channel positive energy, spells and auras as per the Paladin class. Tyrants gain touch of corruption, channel negative energy, spells and auras as per the Anti-paladin class.
Resilience of the Ring: upon reaching 2nd level the Gladiator (regardless of being a hero or Tyrant) receives a bonus to all saving throws equal to his Charisma as a Morale bonus.
Health of the gladiator: Upon reaching 3rd level the Gladiator (regardless of being a Hero or Tyrant) is immune to diseases as per the Paladins Divine Health ability.
Equipment is my Life: Gladiators must choose a Divine Bonded Weapon or Armor and cannot choose the Mount Option.
All other abilities and effects present in either the paladin and Anti-paladin will be reflected in the Gladiator, including hit points and skill points per level.
Oracles may not choose the Wave Mystery.
Any class variants of abilities that allow you to cast create water must change this ability to “Destroy Water”.
I allow Psionics in my campaign. All material presented in the 3.5 EPH (Expanded Psionics Handbook) are allowed (races aside). I do not allow material from the Complete Psionics Book. The only difference is that the skills are all adjusted to Pathfinder and Hit dice will be increased one step. The thought process with this decision is that psionics in 3.5 were overpowered when compared with the other core classes. Since all classes got a boost in Pathfinder, in theory these classes should be more balanced now (if slightly underpowered). I use the Psionics-magic transparency rule.
Due to Athas' inhospitable nature the DC for the Survival check to “Get along in the wild” is increased to 15 base and providing for additional characters is done for one person for every 3 points that you succeed your check.
As water is so scarce, even to simply drink, swim is no longer a class skill for any class.
Barbarians receive Stealth as an in-class skill
Druids receive Linguistics
Fighters receive Perception
Monks receive Survival
Rangers receive Linguistics
Rogues receive Survival
Cavaliers receive Survival
Inquisitors receive acrobatics
Oracles of Nature receive Perception in Lou of Swim
Weapons
Simple Weapons Cost Dmg (M) Critical Range Weight Type Special
Light Melee Weapons
Talid 5 1d6 X2 - 1lb. P
Widow's Knife 1 1d4 19-20/X2 20 ft. 1lb
Wrist Razor's 1 1d4 X3 - 1lb. S.
Ranged Weapons
Dejada 10 1d6 X2 50 ft. 2lb. B Bullets as sling
Martial Weapons Cost Dmg (M) Critical Range Weight Type Special
One-Handed Melee Weapons
Aljulak 20 1d8 X2 - 5lb. P Disarm, Trip
Carrikal 15 1d8 X3 - 6lb. S Brutal 1
Two-Handed Melee Weapons
Maul 15 1d12 X3 - 14lbs B
Trikal 25 1d10 19-20/X2- 12lb. P or S Brace, Reach
Ranged Weapons
Chatkcha 10 1d6 19-20/X2 30 ft. 1lb. P
Exotic Weapons Cost Dmg (M) Critical Range Weight Type Special
Gauntlet Axe 25 1d8 X3 - 3lb S Shield
Puchik 3 1d6 19-20/X3- 1lb. P
Singing Stick 40 1d6 X2 - 2lb. B Disarm
Tortoise Blade 10 1d6 19-20/X2- 7lb. S Shield
Two-Handed Melee Weapons
Cahulaks 25 1d8/1d8 X2/X2 15 ft. 9lb. P Reach, Trip
Dragon's Paw 40 1d8/1d6 X3/18-20/X2- 10lb. P
Gouge 30 2d6 X3 - 12lb. S Brutal 1
Gythka 25 2d4/2d4 X3/X3 - 9lb. P
Lotulis 40 1d10/1d10 X3/X3 - 9lb. P
New Materials:
Obsidian: Hardness 7, Hit points 12/inch Special: 1Brutal, 2Brittle
Light Blade: H (Hardness) 7, HP (Hit Points) 1, Brutal 1
One-Handed Blade: H 7 HP 2, Brutal 1
Two-Handed Blade: H 7 HP 4, Brutal 2
One-Handed Hafted Weapon: H 7 HP 8
Etc.
1Brutal: These Weapons are covered in spikes or serrated edges and tend to do more damage than the average weapon. Anytime you roll the listed number or lower naturally on a damage die, you may roll again until you obtain a higher value on the die. If the weapon uses multiple die in one damage roll this quality applies to all die individually. Most weapons that can be wielded in one hand or ranged ammunition have Brutal 1 and two handed weapons have Brutal 2.
2Brittle: Due to their brittle nature, obsidian weapons loose 50% of their maximum hit points and gain the Broken condition on a confirmed critical fumble in addition to the fumbles normal affect.
Cost: Ammunition: +2 gp, Light: +20 gp, One-handed: +90 gp, Two-handed: +180 gp
Bone/Horn/Chitin Spikes: H 6, HP 9/inch Special: 3Wicked, 4Awkward
3Wicked: Wicked weapons gain a bonus on damage rolls equal to the Wicked rating. Ammunition, light and one-handed melee weapons generally receive Wicked 1 and Two handed weapons receive Wicked 2. This damage is not multiplied on a successful critical hit.
4Awkward: Awkward weapons are unwieldy and difficult to handle and attack with properly. As such these weapons bestow a -1 to all attack rolls with this weapon.
Cost: Ammunition: +1 gp, Light: +10 gp, One-handed: +45 gp, Two-handed: +90 gp
Starvation and Thirst
Characters might find themselves without food or water and with no means to obtain them. In normal climates, Medium characters need at least a gallon of fluids and about a pound of decent food per day to avoid starvation. (Small characters need half as much.) In very hot climates, characters need two or three times as much water to avoid dehydration.
A character can go without water for 1 day plus a number of hours equal to his Constitution score. After this time, the character must make a Constitution check each hour (DC 10, +1 for each previous check) or take 1d6 points of nonlethal damage.
A character can go without food for 3 days, in growing discomfort. After this time, the character must make a Constitution check each day (DC 10, +1 for each previous check) or take 1d6 points of nonlethal damage.
Characters who have taken nonlethal damage from lack of food or water are fatigued. Nonlethal damage from thirst or starvation cannot be recovered until the character gets food or water, as needed—not even magic that restores hit points heals this damage.
Tyr
LE Metropolis
Corruption: +3; Crime: -5; Economy: +2: Law: +5; Lore +1; Society: -1
Qualities: 6 (Notorious, Prosperous, Rumor Mongering Citizens, Superstitious, Strategic Location, Slave Intolerant)
Danger: +10
Demographics
Government: Overlord (King Tithian)
population: 30,000 (65% Human, 15% Dwarf, 10% Mul, 5% Elf, 5% Other)
City Components: Caravan, Artisan, Smiths', Merchant, Noble Districts, The Warrens, Stadium of Tyr, The Ziggurat of Kalak, The Golden City, The Golden Tower and Under-Tyr.
Notable NPCs
Minister of Defense Mashastra Dillon (LN Dwarven Female Ftr 7 Stalwart Defender 5)
MarketPlace
Base Value 27,200 gp; Purchase Limit 200,000 gp
Spellcasting 6th level
Minor Items All available; Medium Items 4d4 items; Major Items 3d4 items
Looks interesting, though putting all of it into a pdf format would be nice :). Not as familiar as id like to be, but it does look good. Have you converted the dragon kings or any of the monsters/classes?
Looks interesting, though putting all of it into a pdf format would be nice :). Not as familiar as id like to be, but it does look good. Have you converted the dragon kings or any of the monsters/classes?
Yeah currently it is in .doc format with pictures and in a better format. The copying did nto translate very well above to be honest, but i was more interested in the comments on the rules so i thought it would be ok. I do have the doc if i can figure out how to post ti somehow. As for the Dragon Kings, the PCs will be so far below their schemes i have not bothered converting them. If the PCs do meet them it will be in a formalized, non threatening setting that will be all RP. As for the monsters, that is my next step. My first thought is simply to keep many of the same animal archtypes (horses, wolves etc) and convert them into a reptile or insectoid version keeping most of the states and abilities the same but changing (slightly) the name. This will allow players to have the same animal companions and summoned monsters with a slight (even if only in the name and description) desert twist without taking up all my time creating them. I have already combed through the Bestiarys and pulled out the monsters that would easily be found in my setting to form a monster bank stratified by CR. Anyways let me know if you want to see the doc and ill try to tinker with the options and post it. Thanks for the interest!
it would be appreciated, my interest in the dark sun campaign setting has grown over the last year or two. In regards to the monsters i know that their are a couple in the darklands adventure path that might be useful, plus, the bestiary 2 might have a couple good additions.
I'm currently playing in a Pathfinder Dark Sun campaign. I'd be happy to give you a copy of our game document if you want to post an email. We, too, have Templars as Inquisitors. Elemental clerics and druids are spontaneous, and Inquisitors/templars are memorized.
Some stuff might not work because his is a continuation of a previous campaign moved forward 100 years. For example, the dragon king in Tyr is Povan, a PC who ascended during the Draegoth Ascending super module after we successfully defeated Draegoth (really freaking hard fight btw). We are using athas.org 3.5 documents for most monsters and the recently released Psionics Unleashed by Dreamscarred Press. I have my (serious) problems with PU but some things have been "pathfinderized" like CMB/CMD references, names/powers changed etc.
The rules look ok to me though im curious how the Muls tireless would affect certain casters (might, might not, but players may ask). Thri-kreen dont look to bad (NO HD, fairly balanced, maybe a little on the powerful side). Not sure why but the long stride ability irritates me... could just be a pet peeve in regards to uneven numbers.
Rules wise everything looks pretty good, and your a braver man then i for allowing psionics. I know its part of the setting but... i REALLY dislike psionics in most games. anyway, looks good :D
Jadedgodicn@yahoo.com
Rules wise everything looks pretty good, and your a braver man then i for allowing psionics. I know its part of the setting but... i REALLY dislike psionics in most games. anyway, looks good :D
You just can't have Dark Sun without Psionics, much like you can't have Forgotten Realms without priests or Dragonlance without the Towers of High Sorcery. Without devolving too much into a psionics debate, I've played for nearly 7 years now with the XPH (3.5) psionics rules and it has never caused a problems and is in most cases MORE balanced than core magic has ever been, along with being both fun and versatile. The only problem arises is a very specific combination of feats and powers that lets a psion nova like crazy, but it takes a relatively high level of system mastery to pull it off, and even then it's nothing that a core wizard can't do with splat material.
I have my (serious) problems with PU but some things have been "pathfinderized" like CMB/CMD references, names/powers changed etc.
I'm also in the process of converting Athas.org and some 2e materials into a Pathfinderised Dark Sun campaign.
I'm including psionics and was planning on using Psionics Unleashed. I didn't use psionics in 3.5, so I am curious to hear what your major issues are and whether PU or XPH is best suited for Dark Sun/Pathfider.
I have my (serious) problems with PU but some things have been "pathfinderized" like CMB/CMD references, names/powers changed etc.I'm also in the process of converting Athas.org and some 2e materials into a Pathfinderised Dark Sun campaign.
I'm including psionics and was planning on using Psionics Unleashed. I didn't use psionics in 3.5, so I am curious to hear what your major issues are and whether PU or XPH is best suited for Dark Sun/Pathfider.
It's a long and grueling discussion you're conjuring up, but here it goes.
The significant problems I see with XPH were that there was an immense potential to nova, getting 3 powers off in a round. This required 3-5 feats and 3 specific powers to get going, but once going it was like a freight train. This was not changed. You can also still overchannel, they didn't change that or how it interacts with Wilder's Wild Surge.
There are a lot of powers that are situational at best, which is fine with magic because you can swap out day by day, but in a system that is by design powers known/spontaneous it's a design flaw.
Psionics are selfish. There are an immense amount of self-buffs but very little in the way of party buffs.
Most of the really good powers are mind-affecting. I see this as a conceptual pitfall of mental powers, and I guess it is less of an issue now that mind blank doesn't provide 100% protection from these powers, but there are still a significant amount of enemies blanket immune.
That's just a start. In theory, PU was to do to psionics what pathfinder did to D&D. I think it has failed in a lot of ways and it is unfortunately a wasted opportunity. It's still a good book, and what I would recommend for a pathfinder game for simplicity's sake, but it could have been much more. They added power where it wasn't needed, left unchanged basic design decisions that derailed entire classes (psychic strike I'm looking at you) and yet failed to plug the loopholes that make people hate psionics.
The decision behind allowing psionics was exactly as Meatrace pointed out, that they are a big part of the Dark Sun setting. Using the XPH (albiet with hit point and skill updates to 3.75) was done just because i am used to the XPH and not so much with the PU.
Sorry about the email Jaded, i read the thread with your email and thought you meant you wanted to check out my doc. My bad.
As for the Thri-Kreen i have been looking at them and decided to add an additional -2 penalty to Charisma (so -4 total).
The incredible Toughness ability of Muls allows them to remove only one of the three listed conditions, 1/day, so they cannot remove each of those one per day they have to choose only one. It will remove the affects that are caused by spells that have the duration of instant, or are burst effects. Emanations (that are constantly active for a given period of time) or aura abilities will only be suppressed for a number of rounds equal to their charisma (minimum 1 round). after this time the Mul is affected normally. Is this what you were getting at Jaded?
As for the monsters i have a few that i am going to use...
Crodlu -> See Axebeak in the Bonus Beastiary (CR2)
Erdlu -> See Axebeak with young template (CR1)
Inix -> See Crocodile (CR2)
Kank -> See Hippopotamus (make capsize ability affect any object of large size or smaller like chariots), hold breath lets them do better in sand storms and the sweat can also be converted to dermal plating and hardy immune system.
Meatrace can you send me what you all did for your game?
aaronlee@aol.com
Thanks for all the input!
S'all right lol no worries.
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Minor quibble/note re: half-giants...
They do not however gain any reach and do not take up a 10 Ft square themselves nor can they wield “large” weapons.
Pathfinder RPG core rules (pp 141 & 144 in my printing), as a departure from the 3.5 rules, allows any medium character to wield a "large" light or one-handed (or 1.5 handed in the case of the bastard sword if they have the EWP for it) weapon at a -2 penalty, with no extra feats (ala monkey grip etc). You may consider rewording this as 'and are considered medium-sized creatures for purposes of utilizing non-medium weapons, armor and items' or something similar so as to not penalize half-giant characters in relation to other races.
Looks awesome otherwise. I miss muls. :<
Good call Apethae, thanks for the correction!
Powerful Build: Although technically medium, Half-giants are always treated as being large for their CMB and CMD and when looking at any effects that depend on size (such as grab, swallow, etc.). This includes how much space they take up when swallowed and with similar abilities (i.e. when swallowed, Half-giants count as being large in terms of how much space in the stomach they take up). They also are considered large for the purposes of their carrying capacity (i.e. X2 carrying capacity). They do not however gain any reach and do not take up a 10 Ft square themselves. They are considered medium-sized creatures for the purposes of utilizing weapons, armor and other items dependent on size. This means that if they try to wield “large” weapons, they would receive the normal -2 penalty.
Look about right?
Minor quibble/note re: half-giants...
They do not however gain any reach and do not take up a 10 Ft square themselves nor can they wield “large” weapons.Pathfinder RPG core rules (pp 141 & 144 in my printing), as a departure from the 3.5 rules, allows any medium character to wield a "large" light or one-handed (or 1.5 handed in the case of the bastard sword if they have the EWP for it) weapon at a -2 penalty, with no extra feats (ala monkey grip etc). You may consider rewording this as 'and are considered medium-sized creatures for purposes of utilizing non-medium weapons, armor and items' or something similar so as to not penalize half-giant characters in relation to other races.
Looks awesome otherwise. I miss muls. :<
You can do this in 3.5. Monkey Grip lets you wield something one size larger in the same amount of hands with a -2. In other words you can wield a large longsword with a -2 with no feats, and a large greatsword at -2 with a feat (or large longsword 1h).
The half-giant thing is a point of rather heated debate in my group right now, at least between myself the DM and a player playing one. In Athas.org the half-giant is a large creature with 2 racial HD and a level adjustment. I prefer the 3.5/XPH half giant that is just medium with powerful build. I just think it is a very well-designed race and I've found a place for them in all games I've run (and wrote a convincing enough backstory in games I haven't to let me play one). Right now the problem is doing ANY sort of pre-written dungeon crawl. You know with the occasional 5 and 10 foot wide hallways that make maneuvering a large creature nigh impossible.
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They are considered medium-sized creatures for the purposes of utilizing weapons, armor and other items dependent on size. This means that if they try to wield “large” weapons, they would receive the normal -2 penalty.
Looks great, very clean language.
Pathfinder RPG core rules (pp 141 & 144 in my printing), as a departure from the 3.5 rules, allows any medium character to wield a "large" light or one-handed (or 1.5 handed in the case of the bastard sword if they have the EWP for it) weapon at a -2 penalty, with no extra feats (ala monkey grip etc).You can do this in 3.5. Monkey Grip lets you wield something one size larger in the same amount of hands with a -2. In other words you can wield a large longsword with a -2 with no feats, and a large greatsword at -2 with a feat (or large longsword 1h).
The half-giant thing is a point of rather heated debate in my group right now, at least between myself the DM and a player playing one. In Athas.org the half-giant is a large creature with 2 racial HD and a level adjustment. I prefer the 3.5/XPH half giant that is just medium with powerful build. I just think it is a very well-designed race and I've found a place for them in all games I've run (and wrote a convincing enough backstory in games I haven't to let me play one). Right now the problem is doing ANY sort of pre-written dungeon crawl. You know with the occasional 5 and 10 foot wide hallways that make maneuvering a large creature nigh impossible.
Yah... ? I mentioned Monkey Grip. ;)
I hear ya about large creatures and dungeon crawls. Our party had an encounter with a single fire giant guarding a door at the end of a 10' wide corridor and he killed my inquisitor PC outright and almost killed our two frontline fighters... 30m later we fought 4 of the same fire giants in open ground and took them out in a few rounds, even down one PC for the party, while barely taking a scratch. One step up the size category chain in the right terrain merits a huge, huge shift in tactics.I'm just glad OP didn't import the 3.5 Goliath version of powerful build. That + Monkey Grip + huge sized weapons in combination made for some cheestasticness. Huge Greatsword ftl. :( Don't even think that was technically allowed by the feat, but my GM at the time was a big FF7 fan.
stuff
You misunderstood what I said. You said that PF was a departure in that it let you wield something 1 size category larger as a 2H weapon without feats. You could already do that in 3.5 WITHOUT FEATS. Get it? Monkey grip let you wield something in the same amount of hands, instead of 2H. In other words 3.5 and PF are the exact same in this regard.
I did not want a player race that is large for those exact reasons (hard for dungeon crawls due to space, they have reach, how the hell do you deal with classes with mounts etc.) which is why i decided to make my half-giants follow the XPH build (medium, powerful build). My goal was to capture, what i believed to be, the essence of the various Athas specific races and make them balanced (relatively speaking) with core races. I tried to use the race building guide that was posted elsewhere on this forum although i did take it with a grain of salt. My goal was 11 points, or there abouts, although the Muls exceed that by about a point. Can anyone think of major design flaws with the races that i might have missed or feel they are way too powerful. I admit freely here and now that i tend to make my races on the powerful side of the spectrum, but i also tend to be a tough DM when it comes to encounters and social situations. Being a human for example will tend to be its own advantage more often than not. I also wanted to flesh out the new races to give them character all their own and make them fit my vision for them. Anyways thanks for the input so far!
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how about Half-Giant is a Large creature with a "Half-Size" feature?
Half Size: This creature occupies two 5ft x 5ft x 5ft stacked cubes on the battle field while standing (not prone). This creature is considered medium-sized creatures for purposes of utilizing non-medium-sized weapons. This creature threatens a 5-ft (1 sq) radius. When this creature is wielding a Two-handed non-double weapon, as a full-round action, she may make a single attack with Reach (ie 10-foot attack) in lieu of all other attacks.
as for mounts, you would have to get creative, or offer an alternative.
btw in my world, HG have quadruple water and food requirements, pay quadruple for sized equipment, and the equipment is one grade scarcer.
mrsowrong at Yahoo dot com
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Psionics are selfish. There are an immense amount of self-buffs but very little in the way of party buffs.
I hope you just mean that in a bland tactical sense and not literally. If you want to put a bee in my bonnet, you could do worse than equating egocentrism with selfishness. People need to understand that altruism comes from egotism - ignore the pseudointellectuals and masterdebaters so popular in some political circles who tell you otherwise.
ANYWAY, I came here to point out something I found a while ago that is, as they say, relevant to your interests:
http://arena.athas.org/forums/ds-3/topics/pathfinder-dark-sun-classes
You also know about the 3.5 Dark Sun update from athas.org, right?
You might also want to look at "Paths of Power" by 4 Winds Fantasy Gaming and its Voyageur class. As written it's mostly just goofy, the apparent result of someone trying to combine their interest in D&D with their passion for kayaking (the most favorable thing I've heard about it is someone saying it reminded them of Nodwick). Fix it up some, however, and you may well be able to make it into a respectable update of Dark Sun's Trader class, which the 3.5 version I mentioned above consciously declined to do, but 4th Edition Dark Sun, to its credit, did take a stab at (and a good kind of stab, not the stab shaped suspiciously like a giant middle finger that Tome of Magic fans got).
I miss muls. :<
Me too. Would muls like this be usable in a normal non-Dark Sun Pathfinder game? I seem to remember everything in darksun was bigger, faster, and scaryer....would they have to be dumbed down a bit?