I brought up my build before, but I decided to repost it here since it wasn't as relevant to my last topic. As a GM I've come to dislike the point buy system since it tends to be more associated with min-maxing and optimization, so I decided to use the standard system of rolling my stats (the scores I got were 17, 12, 15, 17, 17, 12).
I'm going to be a lawful evil Human Cleric (3rd level), representing Zon-Kuthon. Reflecting my alignment, character-wise I am going to portray myself as a greedy, corrupt individual, who usually has the tendency of leaving most of the dirty work to the party's chaotic evil Barbarian, unless he can't help it.
Combat wise, given his high Constitution score and his Heavy Armor (from feat), he's built so that he can take his own fair share of hits. On top of this, he'll be using his handy spiked chain to do share the aggro with the party's Fighter (sword n' board) and Barbarian. When the enemies start piling up, I'll just nuke 'em with negative energy, diverting it from my own teammates using selective channel - by 8th level with the Death domain, this will heal me simultaneously.
Sticking with Core Rulebook material only...
STR 15
DEX 12
CON 17
INT 12
WIS 19 (Base 17 + 2 from Human)
CHA 17
Domains:
Darkness & Death
Feats:
Blind-Fight (from being a follower of Zon-Kuthon)
Selective Channeling
Heavy Armor Proficiency
Improved Channel OR Command Undead
Weapon:
Masterwork Silver Spiked Chain (Unholy Symbol Attached) - melee +2, 2d4+2
Armor:
Masterwork Banded Mail
AC: 18
Touch: 11
FF: 17
I am dead-set on most of my choices, but I am unsure of which feat to pick at 3rd level.
I'd appreciate any help you can offer, seeing as this is my first character.
Since it's your first character, I'm guessing you used purely PF rules and don't know 3.5 rules?
Because uh... the spiked chain's 'agro control' so to speak was pretty effective and popular in 3.5, but with PF's nerfs to the spiked chain... it doesn't fill that purpose nearly as well.
So I'm just checking to be sure you know what you're doing lol, since a changed weapon is pretty easy to miss if you DID have 3.5 experience.
Yeah, I started out with Pathfinder, so there's no chance of rule confusion with 3.5, though I've heard/read about several of the differences. I had heard that the spiked chain had gotten nerfed (no more reach?), but that's all I heard. Perhaps another weapon would be more appropriate.
When the enemies start piling up, I'll just nuke 'em with negative energy, diverting it from my own teammates using selective channel - by 8th level with the Death domain, this will heal me simultaneously.
From my understanding of the rules this won't work. You will only heal if you are using channel to heal undeads, not if u are using it to damage living creatures.
When the enemies start piling up, I'll just nuke 'em with negative energy, diverting it from my own teammates using selective channel - by 8th level with the Death domain, this will heal me simultaneously.From my understanding of the rules this won't work. You will only heal if you are using channel to heal undeads, not if u are using it to damage living creatures.
At 8th level, you heal damage
instead of taking damage from channeled negative energy.
If the channeled negative energy targets undead, you heal
hit points just like undead in the area.
I'm not sure about that, since the energy heals undead and damages living simultaneously - I don't pick which I enact, but I do choose whether I affect myself with the energy or not.
It does not damage living creatures and heal undead simultaneously since the beta playtest I don't think. You have to choose one. likewise with positive energy you cannot nuke undeads with the same channel as u heal the living.
It does not damage living creatures and heal undead simultaneously since the beta playtest I don't think. You have to choose one. likewise with positive energy you cannot nuke undeads with the same channel as u heal the living.
He can channel negative energy to harm living creatures and target himself and heal from it.
He can channel negative energy to heal undead creatures and target himself and heal from it.
He's not trying to do both at once, just saying that he has both options and that both heal him.
cool I like that. Very nifty domain power. I wasn't exactly sure how it worked after channel was nerfed since beta to not include both undead and living creatures simultaneously.
I dont think you can hurt and harm at the same time. Heres a slightly diferent Example.
Some Evil cleric, with bunch of undead minions. Those pesky doogooders are trying to thwart him again.
He can Channel to harm tthe good guys. It will do /nothing/ for his undead minions.
Or he can channel to heal his undead.
You cannot do both at the same time.
It can't do both at once? I had always thought that both living are harmed and undead are healed at once. Doesn't make sense that you'd have to choose, since the energy is supposed to affect whatever is in the cleric's radius. Otherwise the Selective Channeling feat would not be as purposeful.
Unless Channel Energy been errata'd at all? I've never even seen the beta version of it.
My understanding is that he can choose weather or not to affect himself with the energy, and is not harmed by it, rather is healed by it, not doing 2 things at once.
Channeling energy causes a burst that affects all creatures of one type (either undead or living) in a 30-foot radius centered on the cleric.
It's an either/or effect. Either it affects Undead, or it affects Living. The only way he could heal himself *and* his undead minions is if he too were undead. If you choose to channel to affect living you may *always* choose to exclude yourself. As an Evil Channeler, he is *not* able to heal himself with it, unless he is undead.
The Beta version was a blanket "everything in the AoE took the appropriate heal/hurt"
Just bear in mind:
POSITIVE energy Heals Living and Hurts Undead
NEGATIVE energy Hurts Living and Heals Undead
The specific Cleric this thread is about cannot Heal Living; he is both Evil *and* worships an Evil Deity (even if he were Neutral, he would still not be able to choose Positive, as he worships an Evil Deity). This restriction does not stop him from preparing Cure Light Wounds, Cure Moderate Wounds, et al
GNOME
This is the ability I believe that he means that will allow him to heal himself at the same time his negative channel energy will heal undead (8th level Death domain ability):
Death's Embrace (Ex): At 8th level, you heal damage instead of taking damage from channeled negative energy. If the channeled negative energy targets undead, you heal hit points just like undead in the area.
Good point. Then let's look at this exception.
ZK Cleric channels negative to Hurt Living; he excludes himself or takes damage. Same cleric channels negative to Heal Undead, he *also* heals due to his exception :) If any other Negative Energy is channeled to Heal Undead, it will heal him too, unless he is excluded (by Selective Channeling).
GNOME
Good point. Then let's look at this exception.
ZK Cleric channels negative to Hurt Living; he excludes himself or takes damage. Same cleric channels negative to Heal Undead, he *also* heals due to his exception :) If any other Negative Energy is channeled to Heal Undead, it will heal him too, unless he is excluded (by Selective Channeling).
GNOME
So the two sentences are making separate statements about the ability then.
At 8th level, you heal damage instead of taking damage from channeled negative energy.
At any time the cleric would take damage from negative energy, he is healed. So therefore, if I include myself in the effect while targeting a group of living targets, they would all be harmed and I would be healed simultaneously, because I would otherwise be taking damage from the energy, hence the abilities description.
If the channeled negative energy targets undead, you heal hit points just like undead in the area.
Essentially treats the Cleric as an undead for the purpose of healing undead.
So if an evil cleric were to be surrounded by his undead thralls, he could heal them all and himself simultaneously, as established by the second sentence of the ability.
Close, but don't read too much into "negative" energy. It has to be *Channeled* Negative Energy, not *any* negative energy. So, an Inflict Serious Wounds would still inflict its damage (3d8+caster level to a max of +15).
I think what you are looking for is when the 8th level Death Domain Cleric is subjected to Channeled Negative Energy he is healed by it. Whether it is his, or another's is irrelevant.
GNOME
Close, but don't read too much into "negative" energy. It has to be *Channeled* Negative Energy, not *any* negative energy. So, an Inflict Serious Wounds would still inflict its damage (3d8+caster level to a max of +15).
I think what you are looking for is when the 8th level Death Domain Cleric is subjected to Channeled Negative Energy he is healed by it. Whether it is his, or another's is irrelevant.
GNOME
Ah, my bad, I had meant to elaborate that it could only be negative energy that is channeled. But I guess the gist of it is that regardless of how I am targeted by channeled negative energy, I would be healed by it instead of damaged.
Back to your original question about feat choice, it more or less comes down to what kind of campaign you are expecting and what kind of character you want.
If you a) do not expect to encounter many opposing undead and b) YOU want to be the one killing stuff, Improved Channel is a good feat to take. You will still be able to start commanding around undead at level 5 by using the Cleric spell Animate Dead, but with Improved and Selective Channeling, you should be able to blast living opponents with negative energy pretty efficiently.
If you prefer to be a controller/mastermind/commander of minions then Command Undead is a better choice assuming you ever run in to enemy undead to try and Command. Paizo is good about including enough undead in their adventure paths for you to at least try and Command Undead at lower levels before you can create them, but if you are playing in a game of the GMs creation this might not be the case.
Also, having a bunch of undead following around behind you can create some RP problems. Most towns/cities/castles/etc. aren't going to want you bringing your pets inside...
Back to your original question about feat choice, it more or less comes down to what kind of campaign you are expecting and what kind of character you want.
If you a) do not expect to encounter many opposing undead and b) YOU want to be the one killing stuff, Improved Channel is a good feat to take. You will still be able to start commanding around undead at level 5 by using the Cleric spell Animate Dead, but with Improved and Selective Channeling, you should be able to blast living opponents with negative energy pretty efficiently.
If you prefer to be a controller/mastermind/commander of minions then Command Undead is a better choice assuming you ever run in to enemy undead to try and Command. Paizo is good about including enough undead in their adventure paths for you to at least try and Command Undead at lower levels before you can create them, but if you are playing in a game of the GMs creation this might not be the case.
Also, having a bunch of undead following around behind you can create some RP problems. Most towns/cities/castles/etc. aren't going to want you bringing your pets inside...
Good point. Command Undead is far more circumstantial than Improved Channel, though it would certainly be useful to pick up later on. I might not be able to benefit from it at 3rd level anyway, since you can't command a number of undead whose total HD exceed the cleric's. I'll go with Improved Channel, it'll be handier earlier on.
At 4th level I'll probably increase my Wisdom, so that my +4 modifier becomes a +5.