Stabilize effectively stops bleeding. As a heal check it's a DC 15 check when used on another person. All the descriptions tend to include 'dying'.
My question - considering stopping a bleeding effect also tends to be a DC 15 heal check, wouldn't it be logical to be able to use a stabilize effect (such as the spell) to stop someone's bleeding while they are still above 0 hp?
Pre-Pathfinder there was a cure minor spell that healed one point damage. That might stop bleeding if it was applied to the wound that bleeds. It's up to the GM if that spell is allowed in your campaign.
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Stabilize effectively stops bleeding. As a heal check it's a DC 15 check when used on another person. All the descriptions tend to include 'dying'.
My question - considering stopping a bleeding effect also tends to be a DC 15 heal check, wouldn't it be logical to be able to use a stabilize effect (such as the spell) to stop someone's bleeding while they are still above 0 hp?
Well... I can certainly understand your logic, but I think that allowing the "stabilize" rules to simply remove bleeding effects runs into some complications.
First of all, there are several feats and special abilities that enable a character to automatically stabilize when they are reduced below 0 HP. If such a character has also been subjected to a bleed effect prior to their death (say, by a rogue with the Bleeding Strike talent) a character would instantly avert near-certain death simply by "auto-stabilizing" and removing all threat of the bleed. With the RAW, such a character might automatically stabilize, but the rogue's lingering wounds still tick away round after round, affording the rogue's attacks some significant threat of mortality.
In addition, clerics and druids have orisons they can cast that "stabilize" a character at close range. Since it's an orison, it can be cast an unlimited number of times per day. Granted, it takes one of the cleric's standard actions to do it and any magical healing generally halts bleed effects anyway... but what do most healing spells require that spells like stabilize do not? TOUCH! A cleric could just whisk away bleed effects all over the battlefield at will if he so chose to do so with his actions and that seems a little silly to me. Sure, it's probably a really inefficient use of the cleric's standard actions, but the fact that it was even possible kinda makes bleeds seem more useless than they already are.
Let's face it: Most bleed effects are not incredibly debilitating to begin with. Any magical healing at all removes them. Do we really need to make them even LESS of a threat?
Bandaging stops bleeding. A heal check and a healers kit(which includes clean cloth strips) can stop bleeding even without the need for stabilization. Note that bandaging is hands on.
Stabilize effectively stops bleeding. As a heal check it's a DC 15 check when used on another person. All the descriptions tend to include 'dying'.
My question - considering stopping a bleeding effect also tends to be a DC 15 heal check, wouldn't it be logical to be able to use a stabilize effect (such as the spell) to stop someone's bleeding while they are still above 0 hp?
By raw you would have to
Treat Deadly Wounds: When treating deadly wounds, you can restore hit points to a damaged creature. Treating deadly wounds restores 1 hit point per level of the creature. If you exceed the DC by 5 or more, add your Wisdom modifier (if positive) to this amount. A creature can only benefit from its deadly wounds being treated within 24 hours of being injured and never more than once per day. You must expend two uses from a healer's kit to perform this task. You take a –2 penalty on your Heal skill check for each use from the healer's kit that you lack.
Hmmmm.. that takes an hour. Probably not the most useful solution.
Stabilize effectively stops bleeding. As a heal check it's a DC 15 check when used on another person. All the descriptions tend to include 'dying'.
My question - considering stopping a bleeding effect also tends to be a DC 15 heal check, wouldn't it be logical to be able to use a stabilize effect (such as the spell) to stop someone's bleeding while they are still above 0 hp?
By RAW, no.
In my game, I would probably allow you to attempt the DC 15 Heal check to stop the bleeding at range using your Stabilize orison (possibly with a range penalty but likely not).
By raw you would have toTreat Deadly Wounds: When treating deadly wounds, you can restore hit points to a damaged creature. Treating deadly wounds restores 1 hit point per level of the creature. If you exceed the DC by 5 or more, add your Wisdom modifier (if positive) to this amount. A creature can only benefit from its deadly wounds being treated within 24 hours of being injured and never more than once per day. You must expend two uses from a healer's kit to perform this task. You take a –2 penalty on your Heal skill check for each use from the healer's kit that you lack.
Hmmmm.. that takes an hour. Probably not the most useful solution.
Actually stoping bleeding requires standard action as it is function of first aid.
First Aid: You usually use first aid to save a dying character. If a character has negative hit points and is losing hit points (at the rate of 1 per round, 1 per hour, or 1 per day), you can make him stable. A stable character regains no hit points but stops losing them. First aid also stops a character from losing hit points due to effects that cause bleed (see Conditions for rules on bleed damage).
Stabilize is one function of First Aid, but not only, those are not the same thus not every effect that stabilizes dying creature works to stop bleeding. Not exactly right from medical point of view (as stabilizing dying can be much harder than patching most bleeding wounds) but we are speaking about hit points-based life expectancy here. Also as Fatespinner already pointed it would cut down combat value of bleed effects.
Stabilize
School conjuration (healing); Level cleric 0, druid 0
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target one living creature
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless); Spell Resistance: yes (harmless)Upon casting this spell, you target a living creature that has –1 or fewer hit points. That creature is automatically stabilized and does not lose any further hit points. If the creature later takes damage, it continues dying normally.
Here, this should help. The spell Stabilize doesn't work on any creature that has more than -1 HP.
By raw you would have toTreat Deadly Wounds: When treating deadly wounds, you can restore hit points to a damaged creature. Treating deadly wounds restores 1 hit point per level of the creature. If you exceed the DC by 5 or more, add your Wisdom modifier (if positive) to this amount. A creature can only benefit from its deadly wounds being treated within 24 hours of being injured and never more than once per day. You must expend two uses from a healer's kit to perform this task. You take a –2 penalty on your Heal skill check for each use from the healer's kit that you lack.
Hmmmm.. that takes an hour. Probably not the most useful solution.
Actually stoping bleeding requires standard action as it is function of first aid.
First Aid: You usually use first aid to save a dying character. If a character has negative hit points and is losing hit points (at the rate of 1 per round, 1 per hour, or 1 per day), you can make him stable. A stable character regains no hit points but stops losing them. First aid also stops a character from losing hit points due to effects that cause bleed (see Conditions for rules on bleed damage).Stabilize is one function of First Aid, but not only, those are not the same thus not every effect that stabilizes dying creature works to stop bleeding. Not exactly right from medical point of view (as stabilizing dying can be much harder than patching most bleeding wounds) but we are speaking about hit points-based life expectancy here. Also as Fatespinner already pointed it would cut down combat value of bleed effects.
I'm only talking about external bleeding. If a character uses healing to stop bleeding with bandaging, they will stop the bleeding and that continuing damage. With this topic they are above 0 hits and don't need stabilizing. When my mom had a bad head wound I held some gauze against her wound while I waited for the ambulance. Another time I had cut my finger on a metal printer band and wrapped the wound heavily to stop the bleeding. Magical healing may be better, but if they are out, a pressure dressing of some kind is enough to stop bleeding. They still have to make the heal check, which should be harder with the severity of the wound.
Stabilize effectively stops bleeding.
You're confusing what happens when you begin to die in pathfinder. When you are under 0 HP you gain the DYING condition (in which you bleed hp until you..well die). This is different from the BLEEDING condition. Stabilize only removes the DYING condition from creatures (HP loss from having the Dying condition).
If they are DYING and BLEEDING they are still suffering from two conditions. Stabilize would not stop the character from Bleeding to death once they are stabilized as they still have the BLEEDING condition.
You can't use stabilize on a creature with more than 0 HP and that creature needs to have the dying condition.
Weird terminology I know..
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Here, this should help. The spell Stabilize doesn't work on any creature that has more than -1 HP.
Stabilize
School conjuration (healing); Level cleric 0, druid 0
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Range close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target one living creature
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates (harmless); Spell Resistance: yes (harmless)Upon casting this spell, you target a living creature that has –1 or fewer hit points. That creature is automatically stabilized and does not lose any further hit points. If the creature later takes damage, it continues dying normally.
+1
Moot point, since you cannot target a thing with more then -1 hit points.
(Edit to correct: need more coffee, thanks Avalon)
FYI, the term is "moot point". The other is a malapropism.