i figure if the ultimate magic is going to have the Magus then it is only reasonable and fair to expect a new base class from the ultimate combat.
i am curious to see what everyone thinks this class will be or what they would like this class to be.
this is not a thread to talk about how the game doesn't need new classes or how the archetype builds fill all the rolls so please keep those thoughts out of this thread.
The one in Ultimate Magic is a blending of fighter and mage.
I'm expecting if there is one, we'll see an alternate type of fighter. Possibly a blending of fighter and rogue, or possibly a blending of multiple types to do something that's not easy right now.
I've seen classes I really liked that blended 3 or more core classes in ways you can't do with multiclassing. Off the top of my head...
Pit Fighter : Kind of a cross between monk, fighter and barbarian. They got improved unarmed damage, limited rage ability, some bonus feats, and automatic exotic weapon proficiencies. This was a 3.0 class, but it was pretty well flavored.
Acrobat : Another blended class, they blended rogue with monk wisdom based defenses, and got two weapon and imp two weapon when using quarterstaffs. Again, a very nice combo package.
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I like mdt's idea of a pit fighter type class. I think a charisma based AC bonus if unarmoured would be interesting (force of personality, self belief etc) and a few die of sneak attack... Not much in the way of skills however. Would perhaps have a weapon training like a fighter or combat style like a ranger.
Perhaps the class will concentraite on Firearms however and make the Arquebusier from KQ 13 more mainstream.
Honestly, it's not that hard to come up with a melee class that doesn't fit any of the base classes, or can't be done as a combo. The problem is, coming up with one that's as useful and can still be effective.
The one thing I could see would be a firearms based class.
I like mdt's idea of a pit fighter type class. I think a charisma based AC bonus if unarmoured would be interesting (force of personality, self belief etc) and a few die of sneak attack... Not much in the way of skills however. Would perhaps have a weapon training like a fighter or combat style like a ranger.
Perhaps the class will concentraite on Firearms however and make the Arquebusier from KQ 13 more mainstream.
can't take credit for that one, it was in a 3.0 book called Cityworks. I liked it though.
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Might look out for it ;)
I'm sure on one of the threads there was talk of expanded firearms rules in 2011, this would tie in with Ultimate Combat and expand an area that was currently lacking. After all there are many types of fighter already and with all the architypes it would be hard to find an unexploited area. Firearms seems the obvious choice to me.
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I would personally LOVE to see a class that takes FULL advantage of the combat maneuver system. As of right now, any given character can only be good really good at 2-3 of them, even at max level. A class that gives them scaling bonuses to their CMB, and allows them to use the maneuvers without fear of the AoO would be something that would be VERY useful. It essentially would allow a combat focus character to fill a HUGE role in terms of versatility. Sometimes it would be a HUGE advantage to trip X monster, or maybe the hallway is a little cluttered and a Bull-Rush would clear things up. I don't see this class doing MASSIVE DPR, but I don't see that as a problem really, it would in effect end up functioning like a de-buffing class.
Honestly, it's not that hard to come up with a melee class that doesn't fit any of the base classes, or can't be done as a combo. The problem is, coming up with one that's as useful and can still be effective.
The one thing I could see would be a firearms based class.
We certainly could use some firearms-based feats, but a firearms based class? Maybe a firearms based archetype for the alchemist, but a firearms based class sounds a little restrictive to me. :\
EDIT : Also, a firearms based class, unlike the Magus, would be too much specific to Golarion and it would be of no use for the majority of the other campaing settings.
Tome of Battle/Swordmage type that doesn't make people scream 'too anime/fighter with spells'.
+1
Take the BAB and Hit Dice of the Crusader, give him the maneuvres known and maneuvres per day of the Warblade, and give him the Swordsage's mechanic for recharging maneuvres. That would be the perfect, balanced class. (;
I too would love some one who takes full advantange of the combat maneuver system.... I want the reaping mauler. He screams ultimate combat. POWER BOMB!!!!!
HE'd get the boost to cmb and cmd equal to class level , no provaking and maybe unarmed strike and monkish fist scaling. Id like to play a pathfinder version.
The CMB Class could have a system like the rogue or barbarian where every 2/3 levels he gets to choose from a selection of maneuver tricks and so forth.
Help me champaign. We need the Reaping Mauler to go Pathfinder
I would personally LOVE to see a class that takes FULL advantage of the combat maneuver system. ...
Awesome, I've always wanted a class like that! A sort of combat controller who helps even the odds without needing to kill stuff outright and immediately. Grappling would make a good focus, too, among trips, disarms, and the rest.
I'd imagine this class would need a better skill selection and more points to improve versatility and competitiveness. Maybe even rogue-ish stuff like Sleight of Hand (for removing un-equipped weapons) and Disable Device (for quickly disabling stuff like saddles or wheels). Maybe that's reaching too far and could easily be accomplished with cross-classing to rogue.
Forcefully messing with the enemy's positioning, mobility, and equipment seems like an awesome niche for a martial support character. How demoralizing. Love it!
(On preview: Yeah, maneuver tricks! Run with it!)
I would personally LOVE to see a class that takes FULL advantage of the combat maneuver system. ...
Could this be possible with a Fighter archetype instead of a whole new class?
I would personally LOVE to see a class that takes FULL advantage of the combat maneuver system. ...Could this be possible with a Fighter archetype instead of a whole new class?
Like the magus I think we need a whole new class for this. One that really good with control. Full base attack bonus , possibly lightly armored , gets bonus' per level to combat maneuvers. I'd also make him unarmed and have his damage based off fists.
This would really fill a niche that no other class is effective at with out just being another varient fighter choise.
i really want to see a base class 100% unique to pathfinder something that didn't exist in 3.0/3.5.
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I would personally LOVE to see a class that takes FULL advantage of the combat maneuver system. ...Could this be possible with a Fighter archetype instead of a whole new class?
I highly doubt it, only for the fact that what I am imagining wouldn't have much use for pretty much any of the class abilities that a fighter gets. He would prefer to eschew armor training for sake of mobility, weapon training for the versatility to perform any given CM regardless of what any particular weapon is equipped for, and I don't see him being supernaturally brave for one reason or another. At that point all you have remaining of the original class is the armor/weapon proficiencies, HD, and BAB. All three of which could just as easily have come from a Ranger, Caviler, or Paladin.
i really want to see a base class 100% unique to pathfinder something that didn't exist in 3.0/3.5.
Thats going to be hard. I dont think i've seen a truely original concept for many many years now. To me pathfinder isnt about unique and new things , its about taking what has been done and improving it by putting there spin on it. Dont misquote me here , I love what pathfinder has done with thr rules and classes. They have refind them in a way that is very very good and created there own world as well. To me ultimate combat should be taking an existing concept that isnt represented in pathfinder from 3.0/3.5 and improving it to use in the pathfinder world. To this end I believe that a CM class is what we need.
I highly doubt it, only for the fact that what I am imagining wouldn't have much use for pretty much any of the class abilities that a fighter gets. He would prefer to eschew armor training for sake of mobility, weapon training for the versatility to perform any given CM regardless of what any particular weapon is equipped for, and I don't see him being supernaturally brave for one reason or another. At that point all you have remaining of the original class is the armor/weapon proficiencies, HD, and BAB. All three of which could just as easily have come from a Ranger, Caviler, or Paladin.I would personally LOVE to see a class that takes FULL advantage of the combat maneuver system. ...Could this be possible with a Fighter archetype instead of a whole new class?
But there's already a few Fighter's archetypes that give up both armor training, weapon training and bravery for other bonuses. I don't see how it could be impossible to make the class that you describe as a Fighter's archetype.
this is true, i just dont want to see a pathfinder version of something i have already seen thats all. i love pathfinder and i look forward to seeing things that they come up with.
archetypes are fine and all but lets keep this thread about new class ideas and not archetype ideas please.
thank you
archetypes are fine and all but lets keep this thread about new class ideas and not archetype ideas please.
thank you
Sure, but if we're going to have a whole new class, this should be something that could not be easily done with an archetype, don't you agree? For example, the Magus is really different from the Bard, different enough so that a whole new class was required for it.
I highly doubt it, only for the fact that what I am imagining wouldn't have much use for pretty much any of the class abilities that a fighter gets. He would prefer to eschew armor training for sake of mobility, weapon training for the versatility to perform any given CM regardless of what any particular weapon is equipped for, and I don't see him being supernaturally brave for one reason or another. At that point all you have remaining of the original class is the armor/weapon proficiencies, HD, and BAB. All three of which could just as easily have come from a Ranger, Caviler, or Paladin.I would personally LOVE to see a class that takes FULL advantage of the combat maneuver system. ...Could this be possible with a Fighter archetype instead of a whole new class?
Yeah, I think even weapon and armor training take a serious back seat to special maneuvers.
At higher levels (or with the right kind of tool), I'm imagining a Mass Bull Rush. What about using a grappled opponent as an AC bonus instead of the usual dex penalty. What about being able to throw a grappled smaller creature as a knock-back weapon? So many fun tricks could be thought up for this class and balanced appropriately.
yes i do agree. i see what you are saying.
So what every one thinking on this?
1. Doesnt provoke with CM's
2. convert some of the older feats into class abilities? Like domino rush ( think it was in the complete warrior , lets you bull rush in a line and hit everyone ).
3. full BAB and d10 HD?
i want to see a combat class that can do some supernatural attacks that are not magic in nature. a class that can do things that push beyond a normal persons capabilities.
i dont want to see round or combat based abilities at least not a lot, i want the class to get some stuff that are permanent bonuses or abilities.
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I think I would be more than fair to assume that they are going to have a few different kind of "styles." One being the obvious dexterous unarmed, grapple, trip, reposition, steal, disarm, dirty trick, and feint. The next would be more of an in your face big guy, charge, bull-rush, overrun, sunder, drag type.
Say you pick a style at level 1, and you automatically get the pre-requisite feat that allows you access to all of the improved versions, in addition you get a bonus feat every other level starting at level two that grants you a free "Improved" or "Greater" feat from your style.
I wouldn't stop there though, them being the masters of maneuvers they would naturally get a bonus their CMB = 1/2 level, I would also allow them an ability that allows them to make ANY CM without provoking AoO a certain number of times per day.
i want to see a combat base class that finally shows that a non caster can do supernatural awesome things that push or even break reality and physics
I'd like to see a full BAB skirmisher that blends aspects of the monk and fighter.
I am hoping to see archtypes but really hope the base classes are done. I really,really hope this book does not have a single new class.
you have every right to feel that way but this thread is about what base class you want to see or think they will make, please keep the "no more base classes" off this thread
From everything I have heard I don't expect another Base class in this book. However, I am curious to see what subclasses and archetypes they come up with.
I'd like to see a full BAB skirmisher that blends aspects of the monk and fighter.+1
TBH, it's becasue of your monk-of-awesomeness, so kudos.
I'd like to see a full BAB skirmisher that blends aspects of the monk and fighter.+1
+2, but only if the class doesn't rely on the full-attack action. I want to see a mobile base class. Something that hits only once per round, but something that hits really hard (or gives status effect, like staggered or stunned). :)
A non-spellcaster shapeshifter would be a nice choice in my opinion able to change it's form to enhance its use of maneuvers and terrain.
The one in Ultimate Magic is a blending of fighter and mage.
I'd actually still like to see a class that was a blending of mage and fighter, but a different mix than the magus. Full BAB and only up to 4th level arcane spells and a prepared caster (not spontaneous).
There are a lot of other classes for other niches, but I don't know of any full BAB arcane classes in the PFRPG.
you have every right to feel that way but this thread is about what base class you want to see or think they will make, please keep the "no more base classes" off this thread
Sorry missed the part about pro new class thoughts only.
I think it would be neat to have a class that uses non-magical means to do "area effects" and battlefield control.
For example, he might be able to move 30 feet and attack each target along that 30 foot path.
I really like the idea of a maneuver master as well.
I'd kind of like to see a swashbuckler/scout mash-up. Maybe cause 1 point per level if you move 10 feet and tumble by an opponent. Maybe cause 2 points per level if you tumble through an opponent's space.
Maybe
BAB: +1
Good Saves: Reflex
Hit Dice: 1d10
Class Skills: Acrobatics, Bluff, Climb, Craft, Escape Artist, Intimidate, Profession, Ride, Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand, Swim.
Skill Ranks per level: 4 + Intelligence modifier.
I wouldn't hold your breath guys, Paizo staff did say that Magus is the last base class for a while. They're already afraid of base class bloat with 18 classes as it is.
Define "a while". :P
Well, my opinion is that everything depends on what they intend to do in said Ultimate Combat. Personnaly, I appreciate the Inquisitor and cavalier for the teamwork feats, they brings an improved feeling of tactics to the board. Yet, in the end they are bonuses for already possible actions.
Maybe it could be a class with unique mechanics, maybe a class that allows for special delay actions to "Combo" with other characters for extra damage or to_hit, special effects, or debuffing. Or even exclusive manoeuvers, or increased threatened area, and other field controlling abilities.
But then again! If Paizo decides to do like in Ultimate Magic and develop new combat options, new feats and new skill uses (Like using Diplomacy to rally troops, for example) adapted to the already existing classes, there would be no need for a new class IMHO.
Problem is, finding a fighting type that isn't already covered by what we have already.
Combat manoeuvres? You can do that with a fighter, it's all down to the feats and choosing the right weapon training.
Fighter/mage? we have the magus.
I wouldn't mind seeing a decent swashbuckler class, which hasn't been done yet to my satisfaction - a sort of base-class duelist crossed with the single-handed fighter archetype would be a good place to start.
The idea of a kind of non-magical or semi-magical 'spell sword' isn't a bad idea, but would be hard to pull off.