Hey all. I was hoping to get some insights, and hopefully the official answer to this question.
Can magical effects and feats that block critical hits like fortification on armor, or greater shield specialization prevent a vorpal weapon from cutting a head off?
I find arguments both for and against it when I study the text in the core rulebook.
" Upon a roll of natural 20 (followed by a successful roll the critical hit),the weapon severs the oponents head (if it has one)from its body." The part of this sentence about confirming the critical hit suggests to me it is a critical hit, and is subject to fortification effects etc.
"Others, such as golems and undead creatures other than vampires, are not affected by the loss of their heads." This on the other side suggests to me that the head is cut of regardless of immunity to critical hits or not. Just that those imune wouldn't die from it. Wouldn't it look rediculus if a fighter with full fortification armor lived on without his head, hehe.
So yeah, what do you guys think?
Mi interpretation is that the MECHANIC of beheading for the Vorpal works in a way similar to critical hit: with a 20 you threat beheading, and then a confirmation has the head cut off the neck.
BUT even if the mechanic works similarly to a critical hit, the two things are not related directly.
"Others, such as golems and undead creatures other than vampires, are not affected by the loss of their heads." This on the other side suggests to me that the head is cut of regardless of immunity to critical hits or not. Just that those imune wouldn't die from it. Wouldn't it look rediculus if a fighter with full fortification armor lived on without his head, hehe.
So yeah, what do you guys think?
Corporeal undead creatures and constructs aren't immune to critical hits in Pathfinder RPG. So if a vorpal weapon threatens a critical, and the threat is confirmed, the vorpal weapon will score a critical hit on the undead or construct, dealing the damage of a critical hit and severing the head. However, since severing the head is not a fatal wound to most undead (except vampires) and constructs, the vorpal property isn't instantly fatal.
Now I don't see such thing as "full fortification" in Pathfinder RPG, so I don't think there is armor that makes a character immune to critical hits. The best fortification entry in the Core Rulebook is Heavy Fortification, which grants a 75% chance that the hit is converted to a normal hit instead. That means there's still a chance of a critical hit too, it's just a smaller chance.
yeah I mistyped, meant to say heavvy fortification.
Because it effectively functions on a critical hit i'd argue it can be negated but thats by no means an official stance.
This is what I was thinking too, but I'm not too sure anymore.
I guess it seems fairly clear to me (not easy, but you can follow the logic at least). If it can be critted and it would be slain by removal of the ol' cabeza then the vorpal effect happens. If the creature can't be critted, then the crit could not happen in the first place and the vorpal weapon does not get to activate. If the creature wouldn't mind having its head removed or is missing the propper anatomy the vorpal weapon still activates if it can be critted but there is no fantastic death scene for the oponent. Finally if a feat, item power, any other power or spell effect would avoid a critical hit then you negate a vorpal weapon's power because the crit can not be confirmed or the crit is avoided (for whatever the reason).
I think the reason that folks argue for greater or lesser effects for Vorpal is that it is either viewed as too unbalancing or too hampered for being a +5 ability. I personally think it would be rediculous to have anti-critical effects or abilities if someone could just pick up a vorpal sword and thumb their noses at it. Additionally I think Vorpal is a fantastic ability because it doesn't result in a Death Effect and therefore bypasses a whole host of defenses right there. If a creature is susceptable to a vorpal attack and the dice fall right...good night Irene.
Not Paizo... but this was answered twice in 3.5
Originally they said that fortification would block a Vorpal ability. Then after further consideration they reversed it since Vorpal only happens on a natural 20 not any Crit. So currently, unless Paizo reverses it again, a Vorpal Will behead something that is immune to criticals.
That's close enough to an official answer for me. Thanks!
I have always run that vorpal is negated by crit-negation. Since fortification is never 100% in Pathfinder, it's worked fine.
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Not Paizo... but this was answered twice in 3.5
Originally they said that fortification would block a Vorpal ability. Then after further consideration they reversed it since Vorpal only happens on a natural 20 not any Crit. So currently, unless Paizo reverses it again, a Vorpal Will behead something that is immune to criticals.
Personally, I think Vorpal should be reworked to behave like the sword from the Drizzt line, Khazid'hea (Cutter). Limb Severed should be a 1d6 roll with a 6 being the head and other numbers being other limbs. It should only occur on a critical and successful confirmation. May only be added to slashing weapons. This would also require an explanation how this would effect critical immune creatures, noting exceptions.
Either way they are great weapons to have for players now and again. Something to quest for.
Either way they are great weapons to have for players now and again. Something to quest for.
+5
We have a home brew vorpal weapon:
Critical death allows a a fort save the DC is: Character Level of attacker plus total amount he beat your AC by, Plus the magic of the weapon.
Example: 15th level fighter with vorpal longsword got you on a crit, so your for save would be (15+8) 23 plus whatever he beat your AC by...soi lets say your AC was 25, he rolled a 20 (plus whatver else he had) so lets say his result was 45, then your fort save would be somewhere around... 43?
not going to be accomplished by the regular mortal, but there are some epic critters like dragons that might be able to make the save (which was the point)
example: great wyrm red dragon has an AC of 43: 15th level figher rolls his 20, probably has a result of 50 or so. figher level 15, plus of weapon 8, passed ac by 7 so the dragon needs a 30 to save, totally possible for the dragon.
now on the flip side to up-play the snicker snack of the vorpal blade in everyday use, we also make it a bane everything weapon (even bane when sundering weapons and shields and rock and whatever) It also bypasses DRs and hardnesses by the weapons plus (usually 8) even DR/-
anyway thats how we play the vorpal. we only had one ever, so it seemed to work well when we had it.
(it was a specially made vorpal amulet of mighty fists made for a dragon disciples claws, obviously if you didnt have claws the vorpal power wouldnt work)
Due to the abundance of avatars that are merely the shoulders-up of a humanoid, I found it funny that this thread appears to be comprised of a bunch of floating heads talking about vorpal weapons!
+1
As a level 20 fighter auto confirms crits, he effectively has a 1 in 20 chance of cutting your head off with every swing he makes now...God I always hated Vorpal...
I've never worried about characters being too powerful at 20th level. Most campaigns never reach 20th, and if they do, it's time to let the characters rip through a couple of awesome final battles, denouement, curtain.
The thing I've always disliked about Vorpal is that some GMs can't resist giving it out way too early.
Personally, I think Vorpal should be reworked to behave like the sword from the Drizzt line, Khazid'hea (Cutter). Limb Severed should be a 1d6 roll with a 6 being the head and other numbers being other limbs.
That was called a Sword of Sharpness in 1st Edition D&D.
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That was called a Sword of Sharpness in 1st Edition D&D.
I'm well aware of that, it also made an appearance in 2nd Ed AD&D. I'm merely pointing out that the "sharpness" ability never made it to pathfinder or 3.x for that matter. They put it all in Vorpal, which to me never seemed right. Keen was helpful, but hardly the same thing as sharpness. I never understood the separation of sharpness from vorpal, when semantically they did basically the same thing, severing parts of the body. This is why I made the above suggestion to take a stab at improving the mechanic.