Raging Monk

[Black Wolf]

Can a Monk/Barbarian use Ki Pool to get bonuses to AC, extra attack etc, while raging?

[Morvik]

We're talking about a lawful chaotic character here. Those are two opposites that should have never got mixed together in the first place.

[Black Wolf]

This is the 'Rules Questions' forum. Please don't make those kind of comments here, I did not ask for them. And it's a character who was first lawful, then chaotic.

[Phneri]

Per monk stuff:

"Ex-Monks

A monk who becomes nonlawful cannot gain new levels as a monk but retains all monk abilities."

Per Barbarian stuff:

"While in rage, a barbarian cannot use any Charisma-, Dexterity-, or Intelligence-based skills (except Acrobatics, Fly, Intimidate, and Ride) or any ability that requires patience or concentration."

Ki pool doesn't sound like any of that. Finally:

"barbarian gains the benefits of rage powers only while raging, and some of these powers require the barbarian to take an action first."

We've already established with rage powers that a barbarian can take an action in combat for the purpose of combat benefits. I don't see how ki use (a swift action) is any different.

Finally, while not specifically tailored to the minutia of your question, Morvik's response was reasonable. You're attempting to combine polar opposite classes, and not in a way that is based on established mechanics (example: paladin to blackguard). It wouldn't kill you to be a bit polite to a reasonable response to your question.

That said, if you want to go kung-fu with it, I could see a pure monk as the Landlord/Landlady characters from Kung Fu Hustle and a monk/barbarian as something closer to The Beast. Yes I used kung fu hustle for my example, because the premise is a bit silly.

[Black Wolf]

Quote:

Finally, while not specifically tailored to the minutia of your question, Morvik's response was reasonable. You're attempting to combine polar opposite classes, and not in a way that is based on established mechanics (example: paladin to blackguard). It wouldn't kill you to be a bit polite to a reasonable response to your question.

I'm not atempting anything, I'm DMing for a group that has a Monk/Barbarian. With reasonable explanations and character development for why is he a Monk/Barbarian. My question was regarding that particular situation, mechanic-wise. If I wanted opinion on that combination fluff-wise, I would ask that in some other forum. I just don't like when people 'judge' other character concepts that involve some class combinations that don't make sense to them on a topic unrelated to fluff discussion.

Thanks for your answer, Phneri. In response to this:

Quote:

That said, if you want to go kung-fu with it, I could see a pure monk as the Landlord/Landlady characters from Kung Fu Hustle and a monk/barbarian as something closer to The Beast. Yes I used kung fu hustle for my example, because the premise is a bit silly.

The character in question is based on the concept of Dwarf Slayers, from the Warhammer world, if you're familiar with it. If not, well, they fit the concept of monk/barbarians. They fight unarmored and throw themselves recklessely into combat with opponents far more superior than them in order to die a worthy death, so they can attone for a terrible deed they once commited.

[Sieglord]

Actually, the use of Ki sounds EXACTLY like the sort of thing that requires focus, discipline, a level head and a serene heart. I'm not going to sift through the minutiae of the RAW for this one...there doesn't seem to be any need. Yes, a formerly Lawful monk retains his class abilities when he enters the Barbarian class, and he can spend Ki...but NOT while raging. The fundamental ideas behind these class abilities are mutually exclusive. (That is to say, a character doing one of these things is utterly incapable of doing the other, for what are seemingly obvious reasons)

The only possible exception to this might be a Barbarian with the "Moment of Clarity" rage power...but astute readers will notice that the bonuses and penalties of a Rage are suspended while using this power...so, no advantage gained there, either.

[Mr. Horyd]

The ki pool and it's related abilities are supernatural abilities, which don't require concentration (as as skill check when threatened, anyway). They're expended as a swift action, which seems as impatient as one can get. The ki pool's size is based off Wisdom, not one of the attributes that are limited in a rage.

The focus and clarity of mind come in the eight hours rest needed to restore the ki pool each morning.

[Cult of Vorg]

The "or any ability that requires patience or concentration" clause in raging seems up to DM interpretation.

I generally don't use alignments, so although the class combo would be work for me even without a character having to go through a drastic personality change, it's still a moot point for this combo since I interpret all monk abilities as requiring concentration, that's kinda their schtick. So, even though I don't think there's any balance reason to avoid the combo, I don't believe that the monk abilities can work while raging.

[tumbler]

I'm playing a monk turned barbarian half orc whose goal is to harness his powers to become the ultimate orc, so he works to master the fury of his orc heritage. I treat his ki pool and his rage points as two different energy sources that he is trying to bring together.

As far as balance, there is nothing broken about combining the two. The rules don't prohibit it. You'll likely end up less of a combat monster than a straight barbarian, but you'll have some cool flexibility.

[mdt]

I've always thought that a prestige class that combines Monk and Barbarian would be workable. I think it's much more likely to have a barbarian turn lawful and learn monk traits (the idea of the wild child taken in by monks and 'tamed' is an old trope).

The requirements to get in would be rather difficult, the prestige class would probably have to be Neutral (a perfect blending of Controlled Chaos).

I might try to work that up for the 2011 RPG contest if I get that far in it.

[martinaj]

You could also just have someone cast a Rage spell on your monk, couldn't you?

[Thod]

Black Wolf

If you are the GM and there are reasons for why you have the combination in your game you should also feel free to rule as you think is right.

Ki pool and rage - without additional information I would rule against it.

At the same time - you do have the background information why he is a monk / barbarian. So depending on that - you should know best what fits and what doesn't.

I once GMed a paladin / barbarian. There were very unique reasons why it happened and as a GM I just ruled what would fit best into my world, ensure the enjoyment of the player and wouldn't break game balance.

If you allow anything like that, Then RAW are not likely to give you the best answer.

Thod