
Ravingdork |

Is there anything preventing me from using Spell Combat and Spellstrike to activate chill touch in one round (making several attacks) and then activating elemental touch in the following round (making several more attacks) in order to have TWO rider effects?
In other words, can I use chill touch and elemental touch at the same time? Why or why not?

Sylvanite |

The better question is Chill Touch and Calcific Touch, because they are actually touch attacks.
The wording of elemental touch makes it not viable for Spellstrike at all. It isn't a touch spell, it's a spell that specifically gives you the ability to make touch attacks with your now enchanted hands. In fact, the target of the spell is actually You with a range of personal.
Chill Touch and Calcific Touch, on the other hand (heh), are actual touch attack spells that then allow subsequent "bad touches". It's really ambiguous if you cast them through your weapon with Spellstrike or Spellstoring whether or not they then stay on your weapon for the subsequent touches. It's something that probably needs to be addressed in the description of Spellstrike.

Ravingdork |

The better question is Chill Touch and Calcific Touch, because they are actually touch attacks.
The wording of elemental touch makes it not viable for Spellstrike at all. It isn't a touch spell, it's a spell that specifically gives you the ability to make touch attacks with your now enchanted hands. In fact, the target of the spell is actually You with a range of personal.
Chill Touch and Calcific Touch, on the other hand (heh), are actual touch attack spells that then allow subsequent "bad touches". It's really ambiguous if you cast them through your weapon with Spellstrike or Spellstoring whether or not they then stay on your weapon for the subsequent touches. It's something that probably needs to be addressed in the description of Spellstrike.
I seriously doubt the developers added elemental touch to the magus' spell list while thinking that he wouldn't be able to combine it with spellstrike.
In other words, though you may be right, I'm sure that's not the intent.

Sylvanite |

Well if that's the case they need to figure their %@$t out and get to know their spells. They only have really two books that they even need to keep track of!
That said, I think that they knew what they were doing, but added it to the list because it seemed "Magusy". I still think it's a decent option, as you can drop that spell, then TWF or simply make repeated attacks with it, and hope that yer victim fails their save.
This spell is actually what led me to ask if I could enhance my hands using the Magus ability to grant enhancements to weapons. If so, it could be neat to cast elemental touch, then make my hands +1 flaming shocking frosting and apply all that with touch attack!
Regardless of intent, however, you can't spellstrike elemental touch.

![]() |

Is there anything preventing me from using Spell Combat and Spellstrike to activate chill touch in one round (making several attacks) and then activating elemental touch in the following round (making several more attacks) in order to have TWO rider effects?
If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates (core rules, p. 186).

Ravingdork |

So, to be clear, I couldn't cast an ongoing touch spell (like chill touch) and then use spell combat AT ALL in the following round for risk of losing my chill touch.
So I would have to choose between lots of fun melee attacks that do marginally more damage and drain strength, or melee attacks and some other spell.
Mildly upsetting, but seems balanced nonetheless.
EDIT: Starglim, could you explain this section of the rules to me?
"Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets as part of the spell. You can't hold the charge of such a spell; you must touch all targets of the spell in the same round that you finish casting the spell."
That (1) seems to contradict what you are saying as far as Chill Touch is concerned, and (2) seems to make it so chill touch could never get past round 1 anyways.

![]() |

So, to be clear, I couldn't cast an ongoing touch spell (like chill touch) and then use spell combat AT ALL in the following round for risk of losing my chill touch.
Well, it's a certainty, not a risk. You could cast chill touch, make attacks with chill touch as part of spell combat, then cast another spell, which would end chill touch if you still had charges left.
EDIT: Starglim, could you explain this section of the rules to me?
"Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets as part of the spell. You can't hold the charge of such a spell; you must touch all targets of the spell in the same round that you finish casting the spell."
That (1) seems to contradict what you are saying as far as Chill Touch is concerned, and (2) seems to make it so chill touch could never get past round 1 anyways.
Chill touch doesn't have multiple targets, but multiple attacks. It specifically doesn't work as quoted.
But if it did, I don't understand your point (1)? Such a spell goes away at the end of the round, even if you miss or can't complete some touches. If you somehow cast another spell before the end of the round, the touch spell would dissipate immediately. Otherwise the two rules don't interact.

Banpai |

As an example of a spell of a touch range spell that can affect several targets look at water breathing:
Water Breathing
School transmutation; Level alchemist 3, cleric/oracle 3, druid 3, sorcerer/wizard 3
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M/DF (short reed or piece of straw)
Range touch
Target living creatures touched
Duration 2 hours/level; see text
Saving Throw Will negates (harmless); Spell Resistance yes (harmless)
The transmuted creatures can breathe water freely. Divide the duration evenly among all the creatures you touch. The spell does not make creatures unable to breathe air.

Quantum Steve |

If you cast a touch spell with a duration (as opposed to an instaneous on like Chill Touch) first, you can follow it up with a second spell (even an instantaneous one) and gain the benefit from both.
So if you cast Elemental Touch, then Chill Touch, it would work.
But if it did, I don't understand your point (1)? Such a spell goes away at the end of the round, even if you miss or can't complete some touches. If you somehow cast another spell before the end of the round, the touch spell would dissipate immediately. Otherwise the two rules don't interact.
Chill touch doesn't end until you've made all your touch attacks. If you still have any touch left at the end of the round, you can "hold the charge" just like any other touch spell.