Actually, I don't think many creatures with pounce also gain extra damage on a charge, so it really makes no difference. If you are right next to something and you have no charge multipliers, you are just as well off full-attacking. So ... where is the problem you are trying to fix?Pounce with rake > full attack.
This is true, but this isn't a feature of the partial charge, it's a feature of Rhino Charge. Backing away gives an AoO, so you are trading -2 AC and an AoO against the rake attacks and +2 to hit every turn. That's not unreasonable for a feat.
Well I think with the wording of Rhino Charge, that's what they can already do with that feat. With the partial-charge as I would interpret it, it's not possible, as you cannot move in the same round that you charge even if it's a 'partial charge' in a readied standard action.
How do you get that you can't move in the same round as you make a (partial) charge? The rules only mention that you can't make a 5' step.
Would you allow a choker to move and then charge? If not, why not?
Well I think with the wording of Rhino Charge, that's what they can already do with that feat. With the partial-charge as I would interpret it, it's not possible, as you cannot move in the same round that you charge even if it's a 'partial charge' in a readied standard action.How do you get that you can't move in the same round as you make a (partial) charge? The rules only mention that you can't make a 5' step.
Would you allow a choker to move and then charge? If not, why not?
It's how I'd interpret the reason you cannot just make a move action and then a 'partial charge' action. If you charge, then you charge. If you don't, then you don't. If you ready a charge, you can do that if you aren't doing anything but readying a charge. That to me seems to be the intent of having the charge as a full round action, or a standard action if you only have a standard action.
Full attack with rake > -2 ACExplain how you're getting rake attacks on a normal (non-grapple, non-pounce) full attack.
I apologize I meant Rend (hit with two attacks to get additional) not Rake.
With that said, I think grappling and rake is far more dangerous than a mere pounce attack. Movement isn't always the easiest to get.
The point was pounce with rake isnt nearly that game breaking even if you can move and charge repeatedly (especially since this makes sense because animals really do attack this way).
Just play smarter with your actions and you can easily best a creature.
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Couple things that jumped out to me.
Partial charge specifies movement limitations on your turn.
Ready action specifies after your turn is over.
Since you fail the requirement of having an action on your turn -your turn is over when the readied action kicks in- then you cannot execute a partial charge.
Sorry if this was already said but also adding rule (clarification) that you can't ready a charge when restricted to only standard action would be reasonable (and make rhino charge "better").
Sorry if this was already said but also adding rule (clarification) that you can't ready a charge when restricted to only standard action would be reasonable (and make rhino charge "better").
Yes, but allowing partial charges on readied actions would make all martial characters more effective and give them more options, something they lack on both counts according to many.
Rhino Charge doesn't need to be better. Given attack multipliers and rake attacks, it's good enough as it is!
Couple things that jumped out to me.
Partial charge specifies movement limitations on your turn.
Ready action specifies after your turn is over.Since you fail the requirement of having an action on your turn -your turn is over when the readied action kicks in- then you cannot execute a partial charge.
False. The "You had only a single standard action available on your turn" condition is still fulfilled even if it is no longer your turn.
Yes, but allowing partial charges on readied actions would make all martial characters more effective and give them more options, something they lack on both counts according to many.
Thats good point but not allowed at the moment (except for zombies and other slow combatants (which is weird...), plausible house rule anyway.
Rhino Charge doesn't need to be better. Given attack multipliers and rake attacks, it's good enough as it is!
I think rhino charge needs a little more something for average adventurer if charge is allowed to be readied.
Seems like Jason made a ruling on the 16th of this month. No, you cannot partial charge on a ready action.
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Seems like Jason made a ruling on the 16th of this month. No, you cannot partial charge on a ready action.Hmmm... I just saw that now... But I`m not sure what he`s actually saying:
Can you ready and action to charge? (Core Rulebook, pages 198 and 203)
No. The rules for a charge state that you can take a charge action as a standard action if you are "restricted to taking only a standard action on your turn". Although the ready action text states that you can take a standard action, it does not meet the requirements of the text in the charge action.
Is he saying that you can`t ROUTINELY ready a Charge?
Or is he saying that you can`t Ready a Charge on Surprise Rounds, when Staggered, etc.i.e. when limited to Standard Action, i.e. the Ready Action itself isn`t allowing/meeting the req`s of the Partial Charge, rather when your action limitation for the round IS allowing it, and you want to Ready the Standard Action you COULD take in that round... the Standard Action is just taking place at a different point in the round than your normal Init, which is a topic Partial Charge never discusses..
...? Not getting my vote for most clarifying FAQ answer.
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Is he saying that you can`t ROUTINELY ready a Charge?
Or is he saying that you can`t Ready a Charge on Surprise Rounds, when Staggered, etc....? Not getting my vote for most clarifying FAQ answer.
I think the FAQ is fine. Routinely, a charge is a full round action and thus cannot be readied. It is only when the charge is being made when limited to a standard action that the question reasonably comes up.
Seems like Jason made a ruling on the 16th of this month. No, you cannot partial charge on a ready action.Hmmm... I just saw that now... But I`m not sure what he`s actually saying:Can you ready and action to charge? (Core Rulebook, pages 198 and 203)
No. The rules for a charge state that you can take a charge action as a standard action if you are "restricted to taking only a standard action on your turn". Although the ready action text states that you can take a standard action, it does not meet the requirements of the text in the charge action.
Is he saying that you can`t ROUTINELY ready a Charge?
Or is he saying that you can`t Ready a Charge on Surprise Rounds, when Staggered, etc.i.e. when limited to Standard Action, i.e. the Ready Action itself isn`t allowing/meeting the req`s of the Partial Charge, rather when your action limitation for the round IS allowing it, and you want to Ready the Standard Action you COULD take in that round... the Standard Action is just taking place at a different point in the round than your normal Init, which is a topic Partial Charge never discusses..
...? Not getting my vote for most clarifying FAQ answer.
Uh, what exactly is unclear here? The question is "Can you ready a charge?" The answer is "No".
I think the FAQ is fine.
No it's not.
"Can you ready and[sic] action to charge?"
No one ever expects the Grammar Inquisition.
Seriously, I think I see Quandary's point. I've seen a lot of people all the way back to 3.0 allow you to ready a partial charge if you were limited to a standard action (e.g. surprise round) but not in full rounds (i.e. you couldn't voluntarily elect to take only a standard action). The later is usually where the contention arose, most groups I played with allowed ready to charge in a surprise round because you were indeed limited to a standard action.
Jason answers presumably covers both. You can't ready to charge under any circumstances. If that is so, it would be much better to state that explicitly. i.e. "Can you ready an action to charge?" No, under any circumstances, even if you're currently limited to taking a single action, such as the surprise round or being staggered. Charge is considered a full-round action for the purposes of readying an action."
OK, I will CLARIFY why I think Jason`s FAQ is UNCLEAR:
Can you ready and action to charge? (Core Rulebook, pages 198 and 203)
No. The rules for a charge state that you can take a charge action as a standard action if you are "restricted to taking only a standard action on your turn". Although the ready action text states that you can take a standard action, it does not meet the requirements of the text in the charge action.
My confusion here is that on face value,
people would seem to read the FAQ as barring ALL Readied Charges:That`s what the `Question` of the FAQ and it`s first answer `No` would mean.
But Jason`s explanation doesn`t support that, i.e. explain how/why Readying doesn`t work on Surprise Rounds (or when the Partial Charge conditions ARE met). The entire line about `Readying not meeting the requirements` is completely irrelevant to cases when the Requirements ARE met, and you CAN Partial Charge on your normal Init. The previous line (¨The rules for...¨) would seem to support Partial Charge on Surprise Rounds (etc) - WHICH IS RAW.
Readying an Action doesn`t change your Action restrictions for the round - It neither allows, OR DISALLOWS, Standard Actions that you can take on your turn. It specifically is written to allow ANY Standard Action. If Jason MEANT to bar ANY Readied Partial Charges, even on Surprise Rounds, he should give some explanation for that, even it is `you aren`t supposed to be able to Ready the Partial Charge Standard Action (amongst all other Standard Actions which you can take) even when conditions DO meet Partial Charge`s requirement (i.e. action restriction)... this will be claified in Errata`.
The current explanation doesn`t correspond to the broadly-written Question and initial Answer (`no`).
So it makes me wonder: was he just mentally considering one specific case, i.e. people wanting to use Ready Partial Charge on a general basis?, or in other words reading that Ready Action itself could qualify as an action restriction. That`s what the entirety of the explanation addresses, in fact. If he meant to bar Readying Partial Charges on Surprise Rounds (which is against RAW), that seems like something his explanation would address, when in fact one of the explanation sentences SUPPORTS that usage (and the other is neutral/irrelevant). So the preponderance of evidence for this FAQ would be that he didn`t consider characters Readying actions when they ALREADY ARE action-restricted.
If he was only trying to convey that Ready Action itself doesn`t count as an action restriction, he shouldn`t use such a Black and White answer, but should simply say just that: Ready Action itself doesn`t qualify, but other conditions qualifying are still in effect.
I don't think there's any deeper meaning to the word "routinely".
I think that it is now allowed, though I think it should be. But the Rhino Charge feat upthread definitely seems to imply that it is not.
What do you mean? Jason B didn`t use the word `routinely`.
The main issue with partial charges is that it assumes you can't do a lot of other stuff in the same round as the charge.
Movement that isn't in a line, or retrieving a potion, or opening a door, etc.
I mean, you could technically do something with a move action that you'd not normally be able to do during a normal charge (movement that isn't in a line, open a door, retrieve something from a backpack, etc), and still pull off a charge because you "readied a partial charge".
Charge seems like a "use all your actions this round" type of thing.
I guess if you didn't use your move action to do anything at all, you could be voluntarily limiting yourself to a standard action to get a partial charge in... it would still feel in the spirit of the rules.
Meh.
I'm fine with readying to charge (or even normal move equivalent action + partial charge on a normal round).
I like letting my fighters have nice things, and this is one of those things that don't really seem to hurt the flow of combat or sense of realism.