Can someone clarify spell combat?


Round 3: Revised Magus Discussion


I might have missed it in another thread but I'm trying to get my head around Spell Combat. I'm concerned that the current wording suggests that you can make a full attack AND cast a single standard action spell at first level. I'm assuming this interpretation is correct otherwise there is no point it being a first level ability?

This seems to give a lot of power to a low level character especially now that the attack penalty has been reduced.

As an example, if you move up to third level spells and look at, say fireball, a wizard can cast fireball and that is his action. A magus can (assuming I'm right) cast fireball and make at least one melee attack.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of spellcasting and melee combined but it doesn't seem balanced against the core spellcasters to me.


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
mad_mac_hl wrote:

I might have missed it in another thread but I'm trying to get my head around Spell Combat. I'm concerned that the current wording suggests that you can make a full attack AND cast a single standard action spell at first level. I'm assuming this interpretation is correct otherwise there is no point it being a first level ability?

This seems to give a lot of power to a low level character especially now that the attack penalty has been reduced.

As an example, if you move up to third level spells and look at, say fireball, a wizard can cast fireball and that is his action. A magus can (assuming I'm right) cast fireball and make at least one melee attack.

Don't get me wrong, I like the idea of spellcasting and melee combined but it doesn't seem balanced against the core spellcasters to me.

Think of it this way...

If you're two weapon fighting at first level, a fighter for instance with an 18 str, you'd be +2 (BAB +1,+4 STR -2 TWF penalties) mainhand +3, offhand +3.
Just replace offhand with spell.
They are two weapon fighting with spells.
So later on, 20th level magus would look something like +17/+12/+7 and spell...

Does that help?

EDIT: As far as balancing factors, consider the somewhat limited spell list and access. Magus doesn't even get fireball till 7th level, and can only cast 1 or 2, depending on their INT.


Kryzbyn wrote:

Think of it this way...

If you're two weapon fighting at first level, a fighter for instance with an 18 str, you'd be +2 (BAB +1,+4 STR -2 TWF penalties) mainhand +3, offhand +3. Just replace offhand with spell.

Does that help?

Thanks, that's what I thought but just wanted to confirm it!

Kryzbyn wrote:
EDIT: As far as balancing factors, consider the somewhat limited spell list and access. Magus doesn't even get fireball till 7th level, and can only cast 1 or 2, depending on their INT.

I think its still a lot of power. Lets try second level spells. Magus get Fire Breath and Scorching Ray at 4th lvl, both decent spells. A Magus can use one of these and also attack. A wizard can use one of these and that's end of round for them. Yes the Magus has limitations on how many times they can cast but you also add in the other abilities using their Arcane Pool (which can be used for extra spells), then the Magus seems to have a lot more going for them.

I gather the counter arguement is that the Magus will still burn out their spells/Arcane Pool before a wizard runs out of spells but probably not before combat is over - how many rounds does the average combat take?


Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber
mad_mac_hl wrote:
Kryzbyn wrote:

Think of it this way...

If you're two weapon fighting at first level, a fighter for instance with an 18 str, you'd be +2 (BAB +1,+4 STR -2 TWF penalties) mainhand +3, offhand +3. Just replace offhand with spell.

Does that help?

Thanks, that's what I thought but just wanted to confirm it!

Kryzbyn wrote:
EDIT: As far as balancing factors, consider the somewhat limited spell list and access. Magus doesn't even get fireball till 7th level, and can only cast 1 or 2, depending on their INT.

I think its still a lot of power. Lets try second level spells. Magus get Fire Breath and Scorching Ray at 4th lvl, both decent spells. A Magus can use one of these and also attack. A wizard can use one of these and that's end of round for them. Yes the Magus has limitations on how many times they can cast but you also add in the other abilities using their Arcane Pool (which can be used for extra spells), then the Magus seems to have a lot more going for them.

I gather the counter arguement is that the Magus will still burn out their spells/Arcane Pool before a wizard runs out of spells but probably not before combat is over - how many rounds does the average combat take?

Doesn't really matter how long the combat takes, if he burns up all his abilities in 3 or 4 rounds...then he's done for the day as well.

If a magus gets into melee combat, he's taking a risk that his spells will not go off, if he hangs back and casts like a mage in relative safety, he can't take advantage of his signature ability, and his casting resources will be spent quicker. It's a trade, but not an OP one, imho.

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