[Fix Proposal, Clarification] Spellstrike

[ruemere]

Spellstrike (Su): At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts spell with a range of "touch" from the magus spell list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is wielding as part of a melee attack. If successful, this melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the effects of the spell. Instead of the free melee touch attack normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make one free melee attack with his weapon as part of casting this spell. If used with spell combat, this does not grant an additional attack.
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Needs to be clarified. There are four cases to be handled here:

#1 Magus uses spell combat to deliver spell with a range of "touch". It works just like a regular use of spell combat.

#2 Magus casts a spell with a range of "touch" using a standard action. Instead of making a free melee touch at his melee touch attack bonus, he can opt for making a melee attack with his weapon, doing normal melee attack and delivering spell upon success.

#3 Magus casts a spell with a range of "touch" using a swift or free action action. Magus is entitled to free melee attack with ability to deliver spell effect. This use of the ability allows Magus to take his remaining actions as normal (i.e. Spellstrike on quickened Daze, then Spell combat with full set of iterative attacks and Vampiric Touch). This is quite possible as Spell combat does not prevent one from using Spellstrike, and rods with metamagic feats are quite likely to feature in Magus reportoire of magic items.

#4 Magus begins turn with a held touch spell. *bzzt* *problem* Magus cannot use spell combat, as it would dissipate the spell (held spell disappeares the moment you begin spellcasting). He cannot use spellstrike since this is not the round Magus cast the spell.

Concluding: This is pretty *meh* unless the Magus can produce #3. It's also overly complicated.

Proposal: Clean the ability description to to clearly specify uses of the ability. One should not analyze rules to find all benefits. Secondly, remove ability to cast two spells per round (i.e. #3) - this could be quite a hog (i.e. time waster) due to sheer number of abilities to resolve in addition to iterative attacks.

For example:

Spellstrike (Su): Whenever casting a spell with a range of "touch", magus may opt to replace subsequent melee touch attack with a melee attack with a wielded weapon. Note that this attack is considered part of spellcasting, and as such is made at your highest attack bonus plus any applicable penalties (such as caused by Spell combat or Power Attack).

Relevant quotes:

Pathfinder PRD, Magic wrote:

Touch Spells and Holding the Charge: In most cases, if you don't discharge a touch spell on the round you cast it, you can hold the charge (postpone the discharge of the spell) indefinitely. You can make touch attacks round after round until the spell is discharged. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates.

Regards,

Ruemere

[DM Barcas]

In #4, you can make the attacks (thus discharging the held spell from a previous round) and then cast the regular spell. It doesn't say anything in Spellstrike about being the same round.

EXAMPLE: With a touch spell from a previous round waiting to be discharged, the magus activates spell combat. The first attack discharges the spell. The magus casts a touch spell and uses the free touch attack to deliver it. (As a swift action, the magus can cast a quickened touch spell, getting another free attack.)

[ruemere]

DM Barcas wrote:

In #4, you can make the attacks (thus discharging the held spell from a previous round) and then cast the regular spell. It doesn't say anything in Spellstrike about being the same round.

EXAMPLE: With a touch spell from a previous round waiting to be discharged, the magus activates spell combat. The first attack discharges the spell. The magus casts a touch spell and uses the free touch attack to deliver it. (As a swift action, the magus can cast a quickened touch spell, getting another free attack.)

I beg to differ. For melee touch spells, you do not get free attack if you opt to hold the spell [1]. Therefore, if using Spellstrike you should not get free melee attack with a wielded weapon if you opt to hold the spell.

Regards,
Ruemere

[1] To hold the spell - to refrain from making action which results in dissipation, dismissal or discharge of the spell.

[Vil-hatarn]

ruemere wrote:

DM Barcas wrote:

In #4, you can make the attacks (thus discharging the held spell from a previous round) and then cast the regular spell. It doesn't say anything in Spellstrike about being the same round.

EXAMPLE: With a touch spell from a previous round waiting to be discharged, the magus activates spell combat. The first attack discharges the spell. The magus casts a touch spell and uses the free touch attack to deliver it. (As a swift action, the magus can cast a quickened touch spell, getting another free attack.)

I beg to differ. For melee touch spells, you do not get free attack if you opt to hold the spell [1]. Therefore, if using Spellstrike you should not get free melee attack with a wielded weapon if you opt to hold the spell.

Regards,
Ruemere

[1] To hold the spell - to refrain from making action which results in dissipation, dismissal or discharge of the spell.

He's using a regular attack to discharge the held spell, then following it with another touch spell which does grant the free attack.

[DM Barcas]

It's not a free attack. I agree that you only get the free attack in lieu of the free touch attack you make during the initial casting. However, since you're holding the spell at the beginning of the round, you can discharge it on your first successful attack of Spell Combat. (I am not talking about Spellstrike.) After your attacks, you can cast your regular spell for the round. If it is a touch spell, you must use the free touch attack or hold it.

[ruemere]

Vil-hatarn wrote:

He's using a regular attack to discharge the held spell, then following it with another touch spell which does grant the free attack.

Not possible. You cannot follow an attack with a spell unless you're using Spell combat already. And use of Spell combat explicitly prevents use of Spellstrike.

Regards,
Ruemere

[DM Barcas]

Quote:

Spell Combat (Ex): At 1st level, a magus learns to cast

spells and wield his weapons at the same time. This
functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the offhand
weapon is a spell that is being cast. To use this
ability, the magus must have one hand free, while wielding
a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand. As
a full-round action, he can make all of his attacks with
his melee weapon at a –2 penalty and can also cast any
spell from the magus spell list with a casting time of 1
standard action. If he casts this spell defensively, he can
decide to take an additional penalty on his attack rolls,
up to his Intelligence bonus, and add the same amount
as a circumstance bonus to his concentration check. If
the check fails, the spell is wasted, but the attacks still
take the penalty. A magus can choose to cast the spell
first or make the weapon attacks first, but if he has more
than one attack, he cannot cast the spell between weapon
attacks. The magus must have one hand free to use this
ability, even if the spell being cast does not contain
somatic components.

Quote:

Spellstrike (Su): At 2nd level, whenever a magus casts

a spell with a range of “touch” from the magus spell
list, he can deliver the spell through any weapon he is
wielding as part of a melee attack. If successful, this
melee attack deals its normal damage as well as the
effects of the spell. Instead of the free melee touch attack
normally allowed to deliver the spell, a magus can make
one free melee attack with his weapon as part of casting
this spell. If used with spell combat, this does not grant
an additional attack.

In my example, it goes like this.

1) Touch spell is currently waiting to be discharged.
2) Activate spell combat, choosing to make the attacks before casting the spell.
3) Make the attacks, which will discharge the touch spell on a hit.
4) Cast the spell. You don't get a free weapon attack, but you should still get a free touch attack to discharge the spell.
5) If available, cast a quickened touch spell and get a free weapon attack to deliver it.

[Seeker of skybreak]

DM Barcas wrote:

Quote:

In my example, it goes like this.
1) Touch spell is currently waiting to be discharged.
2) Activate spell combat, choosing to make the attacks before casting the spell.
3) Make the attacks, which will discharge the touch spell on a hit.
4) Cast the spell. You don't get a free weapon attack, but you should still get a free touch attack to discharge...

I think that should work.

I was going to argue that the wording of spellstrike could mean you get no free attack at all, meaning you would have to have an iterative attack still available. However spell combat makes you do all your attacks at once and the spell separate so that would not be possible. I'm pretty sure the intention in the wording is not to stop touch attacks from being allowed so I'd say it works.

[Caineach]

Spell Strike is also great on the rounds you need to move. Spell Combat is only available with full attacks. Spell Strike allows you to cast a spell, move, and then get a standard attack.