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I know that a Rogue's sneak attack damage is precision damage, but there really isn't a good way to tell what is and isn't outside of that. Is there a good way to tell that I've just missed, or does every ability with Precision damage say 'This is precision damage'?
I know that a Rogue's sneak attack damage is precision damage, but there really isn't a good way to tell what is and isn't outside of that. Is there a good way to tell that I've just missed, or does every ability with Precision damage say 'This is precision damage'?
its not defined.
a rogues sneak attack damage is the only damage i consider precision,
I think that the Duelist's Precise Strike is also listed as precision damage in its description.
I ran into this problem as well when trying to determine what damage applies to Manyshot on an Arcane Archer. It excludes precision based damage, but allows other damage bonuses on the second arrow. Turns out.....that's everything allowed really, except sneak attack. Blew my mind as that makes Manyshot ridiculously nice.
I vaguely remember (but have no page/reference to quote) that I've seen it referred to that bonus damage from:
- Point blank
- Favored enemy
are considered precision based damage.
I vaguely remember (but have no page/reference to quote) that I've seen it referred to that bonus damage from:
- Point blank
- Favored enemy
are considered precision based damage.
I checked, and Point Blank and Weapon Specialization are untyped bonuses as per the feat descriptions.
Favored Enemy is also an untyped damage bonus, and specifically mentioned in the Manyshot feat as something that applies to both arrows, when precision damage does not.
I would love some clarification on this.
I almost killed one of my PCs by having a cavalier with a warhammar and spirited charge. The enemy cavalier challenged one of my the PCs, and with no ruling that the damage from the challenge isn't multiplied this level 6 Cavalier did something like 80 damage, taking him from full to negative in 1 hit.
I would love some clarification on this.
I almost killed one of my PCs by having a cavalier with a warhammar and spirited charge. The enemy cavalier challenged one of my the PCs, and with no ruling that the damage from the challenge isn't multiplied this level 6 Cavalier did something like 80 damage, taking him from full to negative in 1 hit.
I'm guessing it was also a critical hit? That's kind of what happens when you have a perfectly set up situation damage wise and then crit. Just kinda the breaks for the character unless you fudge it as a DM to avoid that kinda thing.
Challenge, Spirited Charge, High Strength, wield weapon in two hands, power attack....add a crit to that and it's just going to be death to a level 6 character. He should feel lucky it wasn't with a Scythe.
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I think if it's just a number with a "+" in front of it, it is not precision.
If you have to roll dice, then it is precision.
For example: Point Blank, Favored Enemy, Deadly Aim, etc., not precision.
Sneak Attack, Precise Strike, Elemental enchantments on weapons, are precision damage.
I could be wrong.
Challenge, Spirited Charge, High Strength, wield weapon in two hands, power attack....add a crit to that and it's just going to be death to a level 6 character. He should feel lucky it wasn't with a Scythe.
Yup, a crit from a Scythe killed one of my recent characters but good. From full HP to well-past negative CON in one hit. All the AC buffs in the world didn't help me. *sigh*
I think if it's just a number with a "+" in front of it, it is not precision.
If you have to roll dice, then it is precision.
For example: Point Blank, Favored Enemy, Deadly Aim, etc., not precision.
Sneak Attack, Precise Strike, Elemental enchantments on weapons, are precision damage.
I could be wrong.
Yer getting the rules confused. Precision damage is listed as such if it is in fact precision damage. The Duelist's ability doesn't add dice, but it is precision damage for instance.
The dice rule is more that you do not double damage from additional dice on crits and things that do double damage (like spirited charge). So sneak attack, elemental weapon enhancements and the like are not doubled on crits.
Critical hits don't allow you to double either precision damage or extra damage dice. Other than that, you add your damage bonuses to each time you roll the damage (so x4 for Scythes....power attack and high str with Scythes is pretty much instagib on crits)
Zappo: Any DM with enemies using Scythes is just asking for a lucky roll to completely swing an encounter. It's treacherous DMing in my mind.
A 1st level crit with a Scythe on a character with 18 Str and Power Attack is 8d4+32 damage (52 damage average). Start adding magic weapons, arcane strike, higher BAB with more power attack, higher strength, weapon specializations and masteries etc. It gets real out of hand. Hence why DMs that build enemies using Scythes are playing with real fire.
I think if it's just a number with a "+" in front of it, it is not precision.
If you have to roll dice, then it is precision.
For example: Point Blank, Favored Enemy, Deadly Aim, etc., not precision.
Sneak Attack, Precise Strike, Elemental enchantments on weapons, are precision damage.
I could be wrong.
The only problem with that is Precise Strike (Duelist ability) by its very name is precision damage, but isn't additional dice. There is one thing that sticks out on that, though. It's unable to be used on creatures that are immune to critical hits. Is any other ability that is similarly unable to be used on critical hit-immune enemies precision damage?
Then again, the rogue's sneak attack works on creatures that are immune to critical hits but not specifically immune to sneak attack, so I guess that won't work as a good definition either.
Just went back and re-read the Duelist ability. I was wrong. It is not technically precision damage since it never says it is. Since it provides a flat bonus, it should be multiplied on critical hits.
Rogue's sneak attack never says specifically that it is "precision damage" either, though it explicitly says it is not multiplied on crits.
To this end I would say, since precision damage is never defined anywhere, except for specifically referencing sneak attack, that sneak attack is the only current kind of precision damage.
Then again, the rogue's sneak attack works on creatures that are immune to critical hits but not specifically immune to sneak attack, so I guess that won't work as a good definition either.
i believe anything that is immune to crits is also immune to sneak attacks as well, its just that there are less things immune to both
ooze • Not subject to critical hits or flanking. Does not take additional damage from precision-based attacks, such as sneak attack.
elemenal Not subject to critical hits or flanking. Does not take additional damage from precision-based attacks, such as sneak attack.
Incorporeal Subtype: An incorporeal creature has no physical body. An incorporeal creature is immune to critical hits and precision-based damage (such as sneak attack damage) unless the attacks are made using a weapon with the ghost touch special weapon quality. In addition, creatures with the incorporeal subtype gain the incorporeal special quality.
the swarm is the only exception i see andthat might be a typo
Then again, the rogue's sneak attack works on creatures that are immune to critical hits but not specifically immune to sneak attack, so I guess that won't work as a good definition either.i believe anything that is immune to crits is also immune to sneak attacks as well, its just that there are less things immune to both
ooze • Not subject to critical hits or flanking. Does not take additional damage from precision-based attacks, such as sneak attack.
elemenal Not subject to critical hits or flanking. Does not take additional damage from precision-based attacks, such as sneak attack.
Incorporeal Subtype: An incorporeal creature has no physical body. An incorporeal creature is immune to critical hits and precision-based damage (such as sneak attack damage) unless the attacks are made using a weapon with the ghost touch special weapon quality. In addition, creatures with the incorporeal subtype gain the incorporeal special quality.
the swarm is the only exception i see andthat might be a typo
Probably--how do you stab a thousand creatures in one weak-point? I just noticed that Fortification armor negates critical hits and sneak attacks both as well.
Probably--how do you stab a thousand creatures in one weak-point? I just noticed that Fortification armor negates critical hits and sneak attacks both as well.
shishkabob?
Zappo: Any DM with enemies using Scythes is just asking for a lucky roll to completely swing an encounter. It's treacherous DMing in my mind.
A 1st level crit with a Scythe on a character with 18 Str and Power Attack is 8d4+32 damage (52 damage average). Start adding magic weapons, arcane strike, higher BAB with more power attack, higher strength, weapon specializations and masteries etc. It gets real out of hand. Hence why DMs that build enemies using Scythes are playing with real fire.
T'was in the module I believe, so I'm not going to be too harsh on my DM. Plus this was just as the APG came out and I was itching to try one of the new classes, so it wasn't THAT bad. ;)
Oh, and it was a Large-sized scythe to boot. :D
Probably--how do you stab a thousand creatures in one weak-point? I just noticed that Fortification armor negates critical hits and sneak attacks both as well.shishkabob?
Rapier of Shishkabobing - A unique weapon that lets you apply critical hits and sneak attacks to swarm-type enemies. Brilliance.
Rapier of Shishkabobing - A unique weapon that lets you apply critical hits and sneak attacks to swarm-type enemies. Brilliance.
Probably--how do you stab a thousand creatures in one weak-point? I just noticed that Fortification armor negates critical hits and sneak attacks both as well.shishkabob?
must be flaming as well. Acquires the flaming burst special quality if the wielder has 4 ranks in profession chef
I'm guessing it was also a critical hit? That's kind of what happens when you have a perfectly set up situation damage wise and then crit. Just kinda the breaks for the character unless you fudge it as a DM to avoid that kinda thing.
Personally, I use a "Stop at Zero" rule when GMing for kids & newbies, and a "Stop at -1" rule with regular players. Any time you get hit for enough damage to kill you, you're at -1, bleeding from there.
I know it's being a little 'soft' on the players, if you want to look at it that way, but I think it makes the game more fun for everyone. As a GM, it means I can let an enemy go ahead and use their A-Game against the PCs, and not worry about someone having to re-roll a long-term character just because I rolled a crit.
Sorry about the threadjack!
I'm guessing it was also a critical hit? That's kind of what happens when you have a perfectly set up situation damage wise and then crit. Just kinda the breaks for the character unless you fudge it as a DM to avoid that kinda thing.Personally, I use a "Stop at Zero" rule when GMing for kids & newbies, and a "Stop at -1" rule with regular players. Any time you get hit for enough damage to kill you, you're at -1, bleeding from there.
I know it's being a little 'soft' on the players, if you want to look at it that way, but I think it makes the game more fun for everyone. As a GM, it means I can let an enemy go ahead and use their A-Game against the PCs, and not worry about someone having to re-roll a long-term character just because I rolled a crit.
Sorry about the threadjack!
Maybe consider instating the hero points optional rules (from APG) for the more advanced players. This would be a way for characters to try and overcome death (provided they still have points to spare).
I think if it's just a number with a "+" in front of it, it is not precision.
If you have to roll dice, then it is precision.
For example: Point Blank, Favored Enemy, Deadly Aim, etc., not precision.
Sneak Attack, Precise Strike, Elemental enchantments on weapons, are precision damage.
I could be wrong.
I use the same assumption but I don't think that the elemental enhancements on weapons are precision damage. They are just additional damage dice.
So my interpretation of the rule is that precision based damage is always additional damage dice (unless otherwise specified) but not all additional damage dice are precision based damage. This follows the logic that all apples are fruit but not all fruits are apples.
Just went back and re-read the Duelist ability. I was wrong. It is not technically precision damage since it never says it is.
It's not in the Duelist's class entry, but it's "helpfully" pointed out in the rules for darkness in the Environment chapter:
Creatures blinded by darkness lose the ability to deal extra damage due to precision (for example, via sneak attack or a duelist's precise strike ability).
Isn't that the first place you would have looked? :-/
I think that the Duelist's Precise Strike is also listed as precision damage in its description.
Nope, it's not listed as precision damage, we checked in another thread. It's very similar to precision damage, but is untyped. Therefore it multiplies on criticals. Damage from effects like flamming are also not precision damage, although they do not multiply.
Rule of thumb: Flat bonuses to damage multiply, additional dice do not.