Evening/Afternoon/Morning all
I've been rping for a long time and my group are going to start Kingmaker. i've decided to bite the bullet and play a Wizard, focusing on Necromancy (just feels right) on a 20pt buy. i've had a read through the forums and seen lots of advice here and there, but was wondering if anyone could help me with what they thought lev 1 should look like.
My backstory is that my character (male) is the last scion of a once noble house. His family is gone, destroyed by politics and a few "accidents" thanks to the attentions of other nobles. My character is likely to be lawful neutral, possibley lawful evil.
My character only escaped assassination when the house fell as he was such a minor figure that few even recalled that he had been sent away for schooling. While quite young, (early 20s), he was always nimble, using sleight of hand to win friends, performing tricks...
His motivation for Kingmaker is that he has no desire to be the power on the throne, or even behind it, but he knows he is being hunted and wants someone to protect him. his focus is necromancy because he feels at peace with the dead. They do nto judge him, or berate him for his failures. Instead they simply follow his commands....
Here is the guide I was talking about.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/extras/community-creations/treatmonks-lab/test
Thanks, any ideas what he should look like stat wise on a 20pt build, i don't like the uber optimised look from the guide, as I want a good int and dex without the other stats all getting minuses
Play an elf.
If you go Human/Half-Elf/Half-Orc a good starting point for your 20 point build is as follows:
10 STR
14 DEX
14 CON
18 (16 Base + 2 racial) INT
10 WIS
10 CHA
This gives you no negative mods and gives you a decent AC and HP bonus. Its not super optimized or anything, but its a solid start. Something you may want to consider from there, if you are representing your character as forgettable, is taking a point or two off your CHA and using it to buy up a little somewhere else, more for flavor than anything. Dropping a couple other stats a little and buying a 19 in your starting INT isn't too terrible of an idea either, it'll let you spend that level 4 stat point to bring your INT up to 20 and pick up a couple extra bonus spells/DC increases.
Again, this is not super optimized, but it should let you build a good, solid Wizard.
Do not drop Charisma. You say you want undead to follow your commands, and you need charisma for that.
Strength is not that important to you. that is your dump stat.
Races: follow treantmonk's guide unless your DM is willing to allow you to use other races, then compare them to what treantmonk says.
Attributes: start your primary attribute off as an EVEN number. This is because you will add 5 to it from leveling up, 5 to it from the manual of smartness (forget its real name) and a +6 from the headband. This means you add 16 to whatever your base intelligence is. [provided you go to level 20]
Advice on playing your wizard:
Level 1 - be patient
Level 2 - please, be patient
Level 3 - Loading, please wait . . . .
Level 4 - Hang on just one more level
Level 5 - Welcome to the fun!
Level 11 - Hello Power House...
Level 15 - Welcome to the crazy! :)
Good point about the CHA, I'd forgotten about the whole commanding undead aspect of the character.
I'd be slightly more cautious than usual with dumping STR in a Kingmaker campaign just cause it starts off as a wilderness exploration game. I haven't played in it, but AM playing in a Serpents Skull campaign at the moment, and having penalties to things like Climb and Swim kind of suck in an exploration game. How dumpable STR is also depends on how much your GM is watching encumbrance and whether or not you can convince other party members to carry things for you (the weight of rations, tents, sleeping rolls, and other miscellanea for outdoor survival can add up pretty quick). You can totally get away with dumping STR later, but it could be a disadvantage until level 5 or so.
Super fun for you starts around level 7. Follow this three step plan to awesome:
Step 1: Kill Dragon
Step 2: Animate Dead
Step 3: Put a saddle on your new Skeleton Dragon minion
Is your skeletal dragon that powerful? Eh, probably not. Do you now LOOK awesome? OH HECK YES!
ya the first 1-5 level are hard. Due to not enough spell to last throw more than one combat per day, and spell selection.
Many people go into Wizard thinking they are a blaster class (or battle terrain shaper) ; which they are 6th level and On. But those first few level hurt because when you get down to it, you can do more damage with a bow than with Magic Arrow. (Think Buffer class or Defense).
You might look at going Defense: At low levels (1st-2nd level), it will help you survive. And latter on, you will be more than just a glass cannon.
Feats you might look at: Dodge (+1 ac) which then leads into Mobility (+4 ac vs agattacks of opportunity from movement); and Toughness ( extra hp) plus Favorite class in HP since your high Int should give you plenty of extra skill points. (example 1st level wizard 6hp + toughness for +3, +1 hp for favorite class = 10 hp..... note toughness will only give +1 more hp per level starting at 4th level).
Spell you might look to:
(1st level spells)=
*)= Mage Armor = +4 ac Armor (1 hour/level duration).
*)= Shield = +4 ac Shield bonus (1 minute/level duration).
(these two spell combined with a good Dex bonus to AC, and you might have a better AC than the fighter for the first few levels till he can buy better armor. Even then, your magic spell give no armor penalties.)
*)= Charm Person = Ok many look at this as an attack spell, but you can use this to take one critter totally out of the fight. It lasts for days, and you might learn enough information from your new friend to be the most valuable spell you could ever have at these levels.
(2nd level spells)=
*)= Protection from Arrows = (1 hour/level duration). DR 10/magic against range weapon. Depending on what you fight this may or may not be a good spell. Still the long duration vs 10/level damage reduction is a nice defense those first few levels.
*)= Resist Energy = (10 minute/level duration) = DR 10/One energy type. This also very's on what your GM throws at you. Great spell if you know your going up against a shock lizard in a cave, but the duration is spotty at low levels.
*)= Invisibility = (1 minute/level duration) = Just disappear. While your invisible, it give you a chance to buff some of your shorter duration protection spell. Move around the battle field, and get into position to drop that one big mega spell that will change the battle:)
The idea is, Stay Alive, do not let yourself get hurt (so cleric can spend time healing the clunk-Head), stay mobile to help your teammates, and stay un-noticed ((Orc yells ""Wizard"", as bolts of flame come shooting out of your hands for 1d4 damage... vs Smack the Orc upside the head for 1d6 damage with your staff..and rest of orc go after fighter))
Anyway, just some idea for low level play
It isn't optimized by any stretch, but for what you want to play, I'd go with:
8 Strength
14 Dexterity
14 Constitution
18 Intelligence
10 Wisdom
12 Charisma
You don't need the strength, and before long you'll have undead minions to carry your stuff. Dex and Con are pretty critical for survival.
Mage Armor is a must. Cause Fear is likely your best 1st level spell for your Necromancy bonus slot; you can chase one powerful enemy away from the fight while everyone buffs or takes out mooks. I'd say to consider Enchantment and Evocation as your opposed colleges.
As the others have said, survival will be your main concern for the first few levels. Carry a weapon that you can use for aoo when enemies close on you (and they certainly will). I like to carry a club and call it a walking stick; it has the same damage as a staff but can be thrown as well.
One of the best ways you can contribute to the group is through Knowledge skills. You can be their walking encyclopedia set for several levels and help significantly in that regard. The Kingmaker player's guide gives tips on good knowledge skills to start with. Collect them all!
Thanks for the advice guys, really appreciate it.
We have 1st session and character gen on Saturday.
I do have a noobish question though...
"Carry a weapon that you can use for aoo when enemies close on you (and they certainly will). I like to carry a club and call it a walking stick"
Whats AOO?
Thanks for the advice guys, really appreciate it.
We have 1st session and character gen on Saturday.I do have a noobish question though...
"Carry a weapon that you can use for aoo when enemies close on you (and they certainly will). I like to carry a club and call it a walking stick"
Whats AOO?
AOO means attack of opportunity.
My advice, if you have the STR score for it would be to hold a quarter staff, have a pair of sai in your belt, and make your spell component case look like a case for shuriken... if you're mistaken for a monk life's much easier...
Also on spells carried I would not carry defensive spells, let position and your party defend you and save your spells for helping them do their job.
Some nice spells: enlarge person (if you have a friend that wants to be big), and sleep (takes a while to cast but its nice at these levels). In general you want to read ALL of the wizard spells of the levels you can cast and one higher. Scrolls of 1st level spells are cheap and you might want to look to get some when you can at low levels as they will be felt then and thereafter.
James has some great advice here. With the background you have for your character, it would be easy to explain a monk disguise (when he escaped assassination, he hid in a monastery). Take it a little further: wear monk's clothes (they are comfortable with lots of pockets and your DM may let you just pay for a spell component pouch but keep the components in discreet pockets), sew shurikens on some places (they don't cost much), shave your head, etc. If you opt for a tactic like this, you would likely want to go with a bonded object instead of a familiar.
However, I would respectfully disagree regarding the defensive spells. Mage Armor is really important to surviving in my experience. The long duration lets you fire it up if you know an encounter is coming. You cannot always rely on allies and positions to help you avoid trouble. There are ranged attacks, area attacks, ambushes, one or more party members going down, etc.
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His motivation for Kingmaker is that he has no desire to be the power on the throne, or even behind it, but he knows he is being hunted and wants someone to protect him. his focus is necromancy because he feels at peace with the dead. They do nto judge him, or berate him for his failures. Instead they simply follow his commands....
The undead thing will likely make a paladin and good clerics non-viable PCs in your party. Had a similar situation at the start of our Kingmaker campaign.
Opposition schools are often chosen from necromancy, enchantment and evocation...
Charisma is a wizard dump stat and is only needed for that one low level spell Command Undead where it will affect the control intelligent undead roll by only 5 or 10%. Probably not worth worrying about unless you also want to talk your way out of trouble.
Strength is also a wizard dump stat but beware of the carrying capacity issue with very low strength at low levels. Which will limit your weapon carrying capacity.
Are you intending to be a necromancy specialist or some other school with a sideline in necromancy?
Assuming necro then choose which necromancy spell you will choose at each level as you level up.
Buy several scrolls with your spare cash at wizard level 1 and 2 to fill out your spell selection. You will probably have 16-20 level 1 spells by end of wizard level 2.
As mentioned elf is the best wizard race.
elf optimised 20 pt build: 9/16/12/20/8/7 or more balanced 8/16/10/20/10/8
Note that standard Kingmaker build is 15 points.
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His motivation for Kingmaker is that he has no desire to be the power on the throne, or even behind it, but he knows he is being hunted and wants someone to protect him. his focus is necromancy because he feels at peace with the dead. They do nto judge him, or berate him for his failures. Instead they simply follow his commands....
The undead thing will likely make a paladin and good clerics non-viable PCs in your party. Had a similar situation at the start of our Kingmaker campaign.
Opposition schools are often chosen from necromancy, enchantment and evocation...
Charisma is a wizard dump stat and is only needed for that one low level spell Command Undead where it will affect the control intelligent undead roll by only 5 or 10%. Probably not worth worrying about unless you also want to talk your way out of trouble.
Strength is also a wizard dump stat but beware of the carrying capacity issue with very low strength at low levels. Which will limit your weapon carrying capacity.
Are you intending to be a necromancy specialist or some other school with a sideline in necromancy?
Assuming necro then choose which necromancy spell you will choose at each level as you level up.
Buy several scrolls with your spare cash at wizard level 1 and 2 to fill out your spell selection. You will probably have 16-20 level 1 spells by end of wizard level 2.
As mentioned elf is the best wizard race.
elf optimised 20 pt build: 9/16/12/20/8/7 or more balanced 8/16/10/20/10/8
Note that standard Kingmaker build is 15 points.
Lots of good points here. I like playing wizards and sorcerers, and I've always ended up having to fight with a weapon at one time or another at low levels.
A club is a decent weapon, so carry one. It's free, and you can throw it, too. You should also have a dagger for a back-up, or when you need piercing damage rather than bludgeoning. Get a crossbow as soon as you can afford it (or take it from a defeated foe).
At low levels, you either burn through your spells pretty quickly, or else you don't have a good one for the situation, so hanging back and taking potshots with a bow may be all you can do sometimes. With a good dex, you won't be that bad at it. Go ahead and fire into melee, if you have nothing better to do.
Mage armor is a must. You're no good to anybody if you're getting smacked. Memorize it twice, and use your extra slot for Cause fear. Use your 0 level spells for utility, and don't ignore Resistance when you have time to cast it on yourself or others before a fight. Every little plus to your saves helps.
Wow lots of awesome advice thanks guys.
The party is only 3 strong, hence the 20pt build and will be a Ranger and Summoner. (summoner will be focused on melee combat)
I love the idea of pretending to be a monk, sounds cool, I prefer the idea of a bonded object, rather than a familiar, so again this works with 'monk' concept.
Spell selection I recommend selecting Sleep or Color Spray or both. They are very effective 1st level offensive spells.
What about a gnome sorc with the undead bloodline?
I knwo that's not a wizard, but...might be cool :)
...and a-typical.
Too bad there are no monk/caster hydrid prestige classes yet. Then you could REALLY be a monk/wizard...a wonk. Hmm...Mizard?
My hopes is that the Mizard will be in Ultimate Magic
Good points regarding Mage Armor.
-James
Excellent points about Mage Armor at level 1.
Unless you are a universalist, you should have three first level spells as a first level wizard. In addition, you can cast one spell from your spell book with a bonded object for a fourth spell. Still, even having the spell take a quarter of your resources is significant. At this point in their career, one spell (especially Sleep, Color Spray, Grease or Cause Fear) can be a real game changer for an encounter. If you look at the overall contribution for the encounter rather than round by round, a wizard can cast Mage Armor and one other spell and be carrying their weight. It's okay if their subsequent rounds are just shooting a crossbow or a Ray of Frost.
With a bonded object and Scribe Scroll as a free feat at 1st level, Mage Armor doesn't necessarily have to be memorized at all times.
Good points regarding Mage Armor.
-JamesExcellent points about Mage Armor at level 1.
Unless you are a universalist, you should have three first level spells as a first level wizard. In addition, you can cast one spell from your spell book with a bonded object for a fourth spell. Still, even having the spell take a quarter of your resources is significant. At this point in their career, one spell (especially Sleep, Color Spray, Grease or Cause Fear) can be a real game changer for an encounter. If you look at the overall contribution for the encounter rather than round by round, a wizard can cast Mage Armor and one other spell and be carrying their weight. It's okay if their subsequent rounds are just shooting a crossbow or a Ray of Frost.
With a bonded object and Scribe Scroll as a free feat at 1st level, Mage Armor doesn't necessarily have to be memorized at all times.
I guess your wizards don't get attacked like mine do.
1. Wizard casts sleep, targets make their saves.
2. Targets continue attacking with missile weapons, putting wizard into negative hp.
3. Cleric saves wizard after killing his opponents. Or not.
4. Wizard did nothing useful, needs healing to go on.
Been there, done that.
Pick up some hit dice and some spell slots, and you can do a lot more, if you live that long.
I don't want to degenerate this into another damage/buff/SOS/SOD arguement but i feel i must point out that mage armor is a very useful spell for a level 1 wizard but not always on himself. Cast on a monk, animal companion, rogue or even light armored druid you can do wonders in a first level game.
I must also heap praise on the Gravity Bow spell for all those secondary archer mages, anything that converts your light crossbow or longbow(for you elves out there you know who you are:P) into a long range greatsword (xbow) or greataxe (lbow) for 1 min/CL is ... well ... great.
I like the sleep spell, and color spray. They are great spells that can change the battle, when they work. When they do not work, or work on only half of the targets, then the wizard is now #1 on the hit list. Without some armor spells, this usually means a dead wizard.
Spell I usually take at first level is: Mage Armor, Shield, and Charm Person or Color Spray.
Color spray is just an amazing spell at low levels, and even scales up so that at high level it can still stun a target for 1 round. This is a great spell, with the only down side being that it is very flashy. Once you use this, any remaining creatures will most likely come after you.
Charm Person, is also great because you can take 1 creature out of a fight (when you first encounter it), have a way to learn about the dungeon your in from someone who lives their, and might have a traveling companion / body guard depending on how the dungeon is set up (Charm an Orc.... 1/2 dungeon is ruled by orc's, the other 1/2 by goblins....The orc could help you fight the goblins on that half of the dungeon). ==I will say this, get with your Game Master first, to see what he will, and will not allow you to do with Charm Person... each GM is different. Depending on GM, Color spray or sleep might be a better option==
PS= 2nd level spell (False Life): (1hour/level duration): Right at 3rd level when your hp start to noticeable fall behind that of a fighter, you get this spell. Which can shore up your hp before a fight.
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thanks for all your help guys. Had the 1st session and it went REALLY well, so much so that i've falen in love with Wizards...
thanks for all your help guys. Had the 1st session and it went REALLY well, so much so that i've falen in love with Wizards...
That's great! What did your wiz do?
Well, we had a fighter, posing as a mage when the rest of the party were trying to hire extra bodies to fill out their Kingmaker contract. so i played with message and light to show my magical prowess.
Made effective use of fear a few times to help provoke AOO which killed two NPCS.
Ok my charm person/interrogation failed, but then the person being questioned had a natural 20 on his will save.
All in all, loved the feel of a wizard and general versitility.