So i'm the only survivor now what? Also my character info

[Realmjumper]

I recently started playing this game, in the past we played D&D but the poor man's version which I won't get into. Therefore you can say this is my first true role playing experience in many years. I rolled up a Sorceress with the following stats.

As far as rolls go we did the classic dice rules where you roll 4 2d6 and discard the lower dice roll. We only got to rolled once though, is that normal? (For each stat) No re rolling sucks but I guess I understand why.
Str 7
Dex 13
Con 14
INT 13
Wis 8
CHA 16

I chose Half Elf and my Bloodline power is Elemental (Water). She is level 3 now but for explanation lets say she is level 2.

Currently I have 5 0 level spells.
Read Magic(Useless most of the time but necessary I heard)
Detect Magic (Kinda useless for the entire campaign)
Daze (useful)
Ray of Frost (Horrible rolls on getting to hit with this, but I need some damage)
Resistance (Not too bad but only lasts a minute and is a touch attack)

My two level 1 spells are
Mage Armor
Hypnotism

How our campaign went. First we had a Cleric, Paladin, Bard, Sorceress, and a Ranger.

In our first encounter we did very well. (Well our first encounter with me in it because everyone was already level 2 from a previous adventure) After that we got ambushed and did fine. (In a forest)

From there we were going to negotiate for release of a prisoner but instead we just attacked. The ranger snuck around and freed the prisoner. Meanwhile I hypnotized a bugbear and told him to go to sleep.

Also the Bard was playing a song and almost all the enemies where unable to attack which was awesome. We did really good in this encounter but there was a big problem.

We were burning all of our most powerful spells, this would prove costly later on. We freed the prisoner but he was not the guy who we were suppose to find.

He joined us as a fighter (A new player entered the game so now it's 6 of us)

The next session we were heading up to an Abbey. Also we left the wagon with much of the gear we had acquired (The Magical Gear) before we went up the road to the Abbey (In a mountain) We totally made a big mistake. We did not use the equipment we had gotten from the enemies of the previous encounter. There was a necklace of fire beads and some other useful things. The necklace still had like 6 beads and they casted the spell fireball. (Some people did use some stuff but the magically stuff was what we really needed)

The problem is the necklace was used against me, and since this was my first time I didn't realize that now I was able to tell what the necklace did. I still thought we had to go to town to identify the items.

We were unable to go to town before the Abbey assault because we had a 2 hour deadline on rescuing the hostage. The only spell I had was Mage Armor (left for the day) I used that on myself which was another mistake. I should of used it on the Bard who only had an AC of 15 bumping him to 19 (+4)

(My elemental spell Elemental Ray was already used up. I used it 6 times in the last encounter. (Mistake))

So basically we're going in with barely any spells. The cleric had like one or two heals left and so did the bard. So this is how it went.

We have the element of surprise because we heard a flute being played. The enemies were dancing, drinking, and distracted inside the Abbey. (This was seen by the Ranger who snuck inside)

We bash the door down and proceed to attack. After dealing with a few enemies we are faced with 5 bug bears. Also there is a bear chained up in the corner who we bull rushed an enemy into.

We defeat the 5 bug bears plus a few humans and go into a room toward the left. (From the entrance of the Abbey) There is another boss (Forgot the type) we defeat him. Now here is where I think we made a big mistake.

I go off to the room on the right and try to open it.(From the entrance hall) Meanwhile everyone is busy talking looting all the kills. I keep trying to open the door but my strength is really low. We have a bunch of keys and no one tried the right key on this door.

Also no one with a high strength tried to bash the door open. Everyone decided to go into the two unlocked double doors leading to the main hall of the Abbey/Church. Again I don't find the reasoning for that and was totally against it. Why go through the unlocked double doors when there is a side door that's locked and might have good things in there.

(We decide also to keep the hostage bear chained up he's not our objective) We enter the hall and at the end we encounter an elf playing a flute.

The Bard tries to match his tune and fails pissing him off. We also noticed an angel statue. Once the Elf is upset he summons the statue and it turns into a hideous creature. It looked like a Gargoyle which flew right up to us. At this point we engage.

Half the party rushes the Elf Rogue which was a big mistake but we all thought it was the right move. (Kill the leader first) (More on this later) I move off to the left to try and daze the Rogue leader. (It fails because he has more than 4 hit dice, fair enough)

The Paladin and the Cleric are taking on the Gargoyle. He is not hard to hit but he hits very hard at times. Meanwhile the Bard, Fighter, and Ranger go up to the Elf.

The Ranger is freeing the prisoner at this point and we do have the opportunity to retreat.

Also at this point I fail a perception check on a D19+1 20. Not sure how I failed but I got hit in the back by another stupid sneaking Rogue. I take a couple points of damage before I'm able to back out and the Paladin engages.

So at this point. Paladin engaged on Rogue. Cleric on Gargoyle. Bard and Fighter on leader/boss. Ranger trying to free prisoner. I'm backing up and going to help the Fighter/Bard as soon as I can.

The rational was we were trying to kill the boss to see if the Gargoyle would die. (Since he sorta summoned him after he stopped playing the flute)

This proved fatal. The boss was super hard to hit, we almost killed him but he drank 2 health points. (Moderate potions) The gargoyle had lots of hp but he was easier to hit. We eventually kill the rogue that ambushed me but by now everyone is low on hp.

Also I was missing almost all of my rolls on Ray of Frost. I think I only hit like once or twice max. Problem being my DC save is only 13 and it being a ranged touch attack.

Everyone eventually gets knocked out and i'm faced with a Dilenma. I decide to run for my life and make it out alive. The gargoyle ended up not being able to leave the Abbey entrance. I had to leave the prisoner behind. Everyone died and got wiped out.

I think I gained like 300 or so GP and level 3. However my entire party got destroyed. What should I do at this point?

The GM said he is interested in playing now so I was thinking of coming up with my own adventure. I've never been a DM before but I fortunately do have the time to come up with something decent. Everyone would have to reroll a new character though.

We messed up big time.
1. Didn't use the magic equipment we got from previous encounter. (Fireball necklace)
2. I didn't cast the right spells on the Bard to help his AC.
3. We should of retreated or attacked the Gargoyle first, since he was the biggest he had way lower dex than the rogue boss.
4. The ranger should of focused on fighting instead of trying to free the prisoner.
5. We burned our best spells way too early in the campaign. I did this thinking we were going to be able to rest.

Finally overall it was a fun campaign, I survived but only because I ran for my life. I tried helping as much as I could but I'm pretty useless without my other spells. What do you guys think? Thanks.

[Skylancer4]

Realmjumper wrote:

We messed up big time.

1. Didn't use the magic equipment we got from previous encounter. (Fireball necklace)
2. I didn't cast the right spells on the Bard to help his AC.
3. We should of retreated or attacked the Gargoyle first, since he was the biggest he had way lower dex than the rogue boss.
4. The ranger should of focused on fighting instead of trying to free the prisoner.
5. We burned our best spells way too early in the campaign. I did this thinking we were going to be able to rest.

1. Yeah that probably would have made a difference but also could have been bad (catching your PCs in the blast would be bad). But if you could have initiated the fight and got the 2 (gargoyle and elf) in the blast it might have turned the tide of the battle.

2. Not really a bad thing, a Bard with that low of an AC is asking for it in melee. I wouldn't count this as a bad thing, more like an unlucky thing. You need to prepare yourself too, casting a spell that buffs AC when that person cannot wear armor isn't a bad thing. You shouldn't be taking responsibility of another PCs flaws. The armor spell doesn't stack with existing armor so unless the bard was not wearing armor the best they would have gotten was 1 or 2 better on the AC. If they weren't wearing armor, well that is a whole 'nother issue and NOT your problem.
3. Usually it is best to focus your attention on 1 creature or another or have the fighter try to deal with one and the rest of you on another. After a round or two of not hitting anything everyone should switch to what you can hit, especially if it is dealing more damage then you all are. This is where numbers come into play. If you can't hit something but it isn't doing much to you, go deal with what you can hit. The faster something goes down, the less it does to you guys.
4. Depends on if the prisoner was going to help, but in general spitting up the party is the #1 BAD IDEA.
5. You can never know how many encounters there are or if you'll be on a "tight-schedule," as such this again goes into the "bad luck" category.

Yeah you lived cause you ran, sometimes people who play refuse to back down even if things are really bad. I don't like that kind of approach, there is something to be said for coming back and fighting another day. Generally speaking you should portion out spells and abilities for at least 4 encounters a day (what the game is a balanced on) so even if you are playing 5-6 you'd have something up your sleeve. Also hypnotism isn't a great combat spell which kinda hurts you (it pretty much breaks when combat starts/is happening if you read the description of fascinate), color spray is much more effective in combat.

[YuenglingDragon]

You guys made some mistakes. Not taking the few minutes needed to identify and reequip was bad but not the worst thing you did. Unlike Skylancer, I see making up for party flaws as indeed part of the primary caster's job. God wizard/Sorcerer is the way to go. But still not so bad. Your resource management was terrible. IMO, it's better to have leftover spells and abilities at the end of the day than die because you used too many fighting schlubs. But where you guys went off the rails was when you split up so much in your last big fight. Unlike in real life or some other games, wounds don't reduce effectiveness. A monster or a PC still does the damage whether they have 1000hp or 1hp. Kill something then move on to the next thing as much as possible.

Anyway, the way I see it you have two options. First, you guys can just redo the adventure from walking into the Abbey. Even with the problems you have walking in, the fight is winnable if you work together better (and hit with some of those Rays). My group has had to reset before and its no big deal. The problem with that is that if your GM is talking about playing instead of running the game, you might have a problem. An uninterested GM can ruin a game for everyone. If his heart isn't in it you might want to think about running a game yourself if you're up for it. However, I might also suggest you run a Paizo Adventure Path your first time. GM'ing is hard work and even running an AP my GM has to spend at least a few hours preparing for each week's play. Doing all that and writing a story and everything else is a lot to put on yourself your first time out. Walk before you run and all that.

Good luck.

[Realmjumper]

Thanks for your tips. The GM told me at the end of the campaign that I knew what the necklace did because I was shot by it. I assumed that I didn't know because I had to identify it at town or something.

Mostly because of my inexperience. Now that I know better I will ask wether or not I know what that does. Though if I get shot by it and I see the creature using it then I know what it does. (It was a halfling who had a necklace and slung a bead from his necklace at me on fire)

That would of been very useful. I now see why splitting the party is not so smart. Definitely should of ganged up on one guy at a time, we under estimated the final encounter.

Also I see I can appraise things, use detect magic on the, and then spellcraft to find out what they have. This will be very useful in the future.

Last but not least save the most powerful spells for the end. Thanks for the information :D.

[Karel Gheysens]

Realmjumper wrote:

We messed up big time.

1. Didn't use the magic equipment we got from previous encounter. (Fireball necklace)
2. I didn't cast the right spells on the Bard to help his AC.
3. We should of retreated or attacked the Gargoyle first, since he was the biggest he had way lower dex than the rogue boss.
4. The ranger should of focused on fighting instead of trying to free the prisoner.
5. We burned our best spells way too early in the campaign. I did this thinking we were going to be able to rest.

Messing up depends on the situation and I don't think you can analyze just as easy as you do.

1. Fine, this isn't really smart if you are getting killed.
2. A bard with just 15 ac probably shouldn't be engaging in melee combat in the first place. Unless someone specifically asked to cast it on him, I don't think I would. A bard often isn't a melee character and I think this one wasn't.
3. What you should have done depends on the characters that are playing and how there is played. An rpg isn't a game of chess or a computer game where you need to speak and read about tactics longer then you play. Depending on what exactly happened, what you did might have been a good role play thus can't be really a mess up ihmo.
4. Again, depends on the character, personalities and what you agreed upon before battle. Freeing the prisoner and then getting the hell out of there is a good tactic, certainly when you don't have a lot of time and when you are low on healing spells. So I wouldn't necessarily say the ranger messed up. Maybe you should have played in agreement with what the ranger did?
5. S&@% happens, though on the other hand if you keep on doing this, your gm will make your big thread the first of the day and you will be killed if you refuse use your good spells because it's the first of the day. Again, I think it's best to just establish a personality for you character and play according to this. If your character was convinced you could rest, blasting your powerful spells is a good thing to do. If you have a problem with this, you might want to play a more cautious character which brings other problems alone (like not using spells when it might have been better because there might always be a bigger treat).

[edit]
I might even say more, maybe your biggest fault was to engage in combat when you weren't ready for it. Maybe you should have forfeited the quest and bluff your way out when the quest giver asks you about it.

[Dabbler]

Realmjumper wrote:

We messed up big time.

1. Didn't use the magic equipment we got from previous encounter. (Fireball necklace)
2. I didn't cast the right spells on the Bard to help his AC.
3. We should of retreated or attacked the Gargoyle first, since he was the biggest he had way lower dex than the rogue boss.
4. The ranger should of focused on fighting instead of trying to free the prisoner.
5. We burned our best spells way too early in the campaign. I did this thinking we were going to be able to rest.

Your first game is often a learning experience, and your party learned the hard way.

1) Yep, that detect magic would have paid for itself a 100 times over if you had used it.
2) This happens, it's as much your fault as his.
3) Tough call, but yes, the gargoyle would have been the easier target.
4) Yes, that was the rogues job.
5) Common error, do only what you need to do.

As for your next game, I say go for it. Pick up a module like Rise of the Runelords or Council of Thieves and make a fresh start with your group. Everyone should take a turn at DMing for the first year or so until you find those that are best at it and enjoy it the most.

[Skylancer4]

YuenglingDragon wrote:

You guys made some mistakes. Not taking the few minutes needed to identify and reequip was bad but not the worst thing you did. Unlike Skylancer, I see making up for party flaws as indeed part of the primary caster's job. God wizard/Sorcerer is the way to go. But still not so bad. Your resource management was terrible. IMO, it's better to have leftover spells and abilities at the end of the day than die because you used too many fighting schlubs. But where you guys went off the rails was when you split up so much in your last big fight. Unlike in real life or some other games, wounds don't reduce effectiveness. A monster or a PC still does the damage whether they have 1000hp or 1hp. Kill something then move on to the next thing as much as possible.

Anyway, the way I see it you have two options. First, you guys can just redo the adventure from walking into the Abbey. Even with the problems you have walking in, the fight is winnable if you work together better (and hit with some of those Rays). My group has had to reset before and its no big deal. The problem with that is that if your GM is talking about playing instead of running the game, you might have a problem. An uninterested GM can ruin a game for everyone. If his heart isn't in it you might want to think about running a game yourself if you're up for it. However, I might also suggest you run a Paizo Adventure Path your first time. GM'ing is hard work and even running an AP my GM has to spend at least a few hours preparing for each week's play. Doing all that and writing a story and everything else is a lot to put on yourself your first time out. Walk before you run and all that.

Good luck.

Please note, I didn't say not to buff people, just that if someone is not wearing armor (due to high dex) or decided to spend their shinies on a nifty new toy instead of survivability (better armor) they shouldn't and cannot rely on the other characters as a crutch to make up for them slacking. Limited resources means playing smart and if someone isn't playing "smart" they are a detriment to the party. That being said, the bard had a low AC but probably some armor and so mage armor wouldn't have been more than a point or two more. Mage armor'ing the guy who isn't a front line for a point or two instead of yourself for the full effect is a bad call.

All in all, it wasn't a total party wipe and so actually ended "ok" even with the mistakes.

[Realmjumper]

Why doesn't the Mage armor give me +4? Here is as the spell reads in the rulebook.

School conjuration (creation) [force]; Level sorcerer/wizard 1
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, F (a piece of cured leather)
Range touch
Target creature touched
Duration 1 hour/level (D)
Saving Throw Will negates (harmless); Spell Resistance no
An invisible but tangible field of force surrounds the subject of a
mage armor spell, providing a +4 armor bonus to AC.
Unlike mundane armor, mage armor entails no armor check
penalty, arcane spell failure chance, or speed reduction. Since mage
armor is made of force, incorporeal creatures can’t bypass it the way
they do normal armor.

[YuenglingDragon]

Mage Armor will give your Sorcerer the +4 Armor. The Bard may be another story. Since both armor and Mage Armor provide armor bonuses, they overlap rather than stacking. So if the Bard has leather armor on providing +2AC the Mage Armor Overlaps and only gives him 2 more.

[Realmjumper]

YuenglingDragon wrote:

Mage Armor will give your Sorcerer the +4 Armor. The Bard may be another story. Since both armor and Mage Armor provide armor bonuses, they overlap rather than stacking. So if the Bard has leather armor on providing +2AC the Mage Armor Overlaps and only gives him 2 more.

Thanks. Do you happen to know what page this is covered?

[Sir_Wulf]

It's easy to beat yourself up when an adventure "goes South" that way. Don't give in to the temptation: Just learn from your errors and try to make more well-informed choices next time.

[YuenglingDragon]

Realmjumper wrote:

Thanks. Do you happen to know what page this is covered?

It is covered on this page. Look through all the bonuses. Basically, the only bonus that stacks is dodge bonuses. Everything else you only take the highest of the two bonuses.

[Whited Sepulcher]

Since that elf was hard to hit, an option your party might have done is aid another, maybe even have your sorceror instead of casting the ray of frost, go up and fight defensively, then do aid another, it'll either give some members some flanking bonus, or for another teammate a bonus to hit. This all depends on positioning, etc... but it's risky since your character is a caster.

[Xaaon of Korvosa]

The bard can wear medium armor, he should be wearing scale for 50gp...the sorcerer should not be buffing the bard, the sorcerer should be an artillery unit. Does your sorcerer have a crossbow?

That detect magic spell you said was useless would have identified that the necklace of magic missiles was indeed magical...

[Realmjumper]

YuenglingDragon wrote:

Realmjumper wrote:

Thanks. Do you happen to know what page this is covered?

It is covered on this page. Look through all the bonuses. Basically, the only bonus that stacks is dodge bonuses. Everything else you only take the highest of the two bonuses.

Aha here we go, it is vital to know this information.

Bonus (Armor)
An armor bonus applies to Armor Class and is granted by armor or by a spell or magical effect that mimics armor. Armor bonuses stack with all other bonuses to Armor Class (even with natural armor bonuses) except other armor bonuses. An armor bonus doesn't apply against touch attacks, except for armor bonuses granted by force effects (such as the mage armor spell) which apply against incorporeal touch attacks, such as that of a shadow.

except other armor bonuses. except other armor bonuses.

Seems like the mage armor wouldn't give anyone wearing armor extra bonuses?

I was only aware of aid other for non combat purposes, now I realize you can use it for combat purposes.

As for the crossbow, this was my first campaign and I had bought a longspear instead. Next time I'm getting one and also a quarterstaff.

Thanks all for your help I have learned many useful things this past week.

[YuenglingDragon]

Realmjumper wrote:

Seems like the mage armor wouldn't give anyone wearing armor extra bonuses?

Depends on the armor. When two bonuses don't stack, they do overlap. That means that you take the better of the two bonuses. So if your armor only gives you a plus 2 bonus and you cast Mage Armor you get a +4 bonus from that instead of the normal +2 from your leathers.

[GeraintElberion]

Some people have suggested leaping into an Adventure Path. This could be fun but it is quite a commitment.
I would suggest Crypt of the Everflame.
It's a one-off adventure (and a lot of fun) that will take your characters up to level 3, if you are enjoying GMing and want to continue the adventure you can get Masks of the Living God and City of Golden Death to take it up to level 7 or 8.

If you would prefer something shorter and simpler just to get started then you could try Master of the Fallen Fortress, which is free.

[Lyrax]

Ray of Frost does not permit a saving throw. The fact that your save DC is only 13 shouldn't matter. All you have to do is hit the enemy touch AC on your ranged attack roll.

[Cartigan]

2) The Bard should've already had armor, Mage Armor would have done nothing or very little.
4) The Ranger should have been fighting. The casters, if anyone, should've been freeing the prisoner. And why did it take so bloody long? If he was tied down with chains and magic locks, you ignore him entirely during the fight unless you can quickly off them.

Why the Bard tried to lead in with a duet with the Rogue is beyond me.

[Realmjumper]

I remember I was rolling really low which is why Ray of Frost was missing.

Yea we should of just freed the prisoner and got out of there. Our party had a lot of inexperience players but I'm sure we will do better next time, if there is a next time for them.