I just started Ch2, and I am really liking the writing and the story. Kudos!
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Update: Still not finished. I just started Chapter 18, but I had to come back and add something.
Without giving anything away, I have to say that Chapter Nine is by far the best example I've seen of weaving Pathfinder's magic system into fiction. The whole chapter had the feel of one of the epic battles that play out at gaming tables around the world, but it read so naturally that even those who don't play the game will be able to enjoy it.
Well done, Elaine!
I must say, I'm very anxious to see how this tale ends.
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Annnnd DONE!
Wow. Good story. I'm going to keep my comments generic, both because I don't want to ruin it for anyone else and because my initial impressions don't rely too much on the specific plot points.
1) Characters. I really enjoyed them. All of them. I particularly like the fact that Elaine portrays the Ulfen as being far more sophisticated than the usual barbarian/Viking stereotypes. Sure, Ellasif is starts off as being a counterpoint to those stereotypes, but when we start to meet other Ulfen characters, we get an image of all the Ulfen people that goes beyond "big dumb warrior" trope. Anyone who wants to play an Ulfen character in Pathfinder needs to read this book.
I'm also glad to see that most of the characters actually have depth. I moved away from the Forgotten Realms and other RPG-setting specific novels years ago because I couldn't get past the feeling that the characters were paper thin. Most of those stories felt like the author was trying too hard to show how they could write a story in that particular setting, rather than writing a story about characters who happen to live in the setting.
Elaine doesn't do that. She didn't do it with Channa Ti in the Legacy of Fire Adventure Path, and she certainly didn't do it in Winter Witch.
The characters of this Pathfinder Tale are fully steeped in the lore of Golarion. They are children of the setting and, as a result, seem authentic, both as Pathfinder characters and as people.
2) Pacing of the story was well done. It felt a little rushed toward the end, but I think that may have more to do with the fact that I wanted to see more of the characters than an actual pacing problem. In other words, the story ended too soon. ;)
3) I found Elaine's descriptions of the setting very engaging. She provided just enough detail to give us a good sense of each location without overwhelming us with details. The story does entail a long journey, but she managed to describe the various sites without making it read like a travel log.
4) Overall...I want to read the sequel as soon as possible! :D
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3) I found Elaine's descriptions of the setting very engaging. She provided just enough detail to give us a good sense of each location without overwhelming us with details. The story does entail a long journey, but she managed to describe the various sites without making it read like a travel log.
I loved this... she described the ruined city, giving us the local's explanation, but leaving possible plot hooks much like a sourcebook does. I havn't finished it yet, but it definitely brought to life the areas it traveled trough, without spoiling any adventures set there... might be reccommended reading for someone running/playing CotCT for the way Korvosa comes alive.
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I reviewed it the product discussion thread and I liked it sort-of, but not as much as Prince of Wolves. I think it's better than Ms. Cunningham's FR books, but for me it was workmanlike rather than stunning. Take Golarion out of it and I am not sure I'd be buying more -- although I'm 50/50 on that, I'd give it at least another book purchase, I reckon -- whereas that wasn't the case with Prince of Wolves, which I liked regardless of the setting.
It's a decent start to Pathfinder fiction, to have two readable books. I think that WotC has to put out fifty books to have two readable ones.
I finished the book tonight. First, thanks for releasing these in epub/PDF format. With the epub format I could load it up on an ereader on my Droid phone and read it that way. So big thanks for getting them released in this format. Very cool.
I thought it was a great book. It was a fun read. I am a big fan of Elaine Cunningham though, so I was pretty sure it would be a good start for Pathfinder Tales for me. Plan on picking up Prince of Wolves in the next few days as well.
Great to see Pathfinder fiction off to a strong start though.
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I've started a topic on Elaine's Winter Witch on my author site, but I'm happy to follow up comments here as well.
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I've started a topic on Elaine's Winter Witch on my author site, but I'm happy to follow up comments here as well.
Thanks, Dave. Great job on your first Pathfinder Tales novel, too! I enjoy the characters you've created. Looking forward to seeing more of their adventures.
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If I'm going too far with the cross-posting, I'll trust someone to delete the excess.
On the off chance that you are local to Edmonton and haven't yet seen an invitation, please join us for tomorrow's reading of Prince of Wolves and Winter Witch at Indigo South (1837 99 Street Northwest). The readings begin at 2:00 pm, followed by Q&A. After that, it's carousing at Earl's a few blocks south.
(And thanks for the kind words, Paris!)
If I'm going too far with the cross-posting, I'll trust someone to delete the excess.
On the off chance that you are local to Edmonton and haven't yet seen an invitation, please join us for tomorrow's reading of Prince of Wolves and Winter Witch at Indigo South (1837 99 Street Northwest). The readings begin at 2:00 pm, followed by Q&A. After that, it's carousing at Earl's a few blocks south.
(And thanks for the kind words, Paris!)
Dave, do you actually live in Edmonton, or is the reading part of a tour?
Dave, do you actually live in Edmonton, or is the reading part of a tour?I'm actually in Edmonton.
I thought you were based in Seattle. Any chance of a reading in Calgary in the near future?
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I thought you were based in Seattle. Any chance of a reading in Calgary in the near future?
I was in Seattle until 2004, but now I live in the land of the ice and snow.
I visit Calgary once or twice a year, and while nothing materialized for this fall, I'd love to visit The Sentry Box and some of the local bookstores next summer. It's possible I'll visit a Calgary convention or two next year, too.
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....
I'm also glad to see that most of the characters actually have depth....
The characters of this Pathfinder Tale are fully steeped in the lore of Golarion. They are children of the setting and, as a result, seem authentic, both as Pathfinder characters and as people.
This. I loved that while the characters were drenched with Golarion goodness, it felt like a natural part of who they are and we were just lucky enough to get to experience it.
I loved the book in general, the second half especially. Even though I'm only halfway through the reading it aloud with my husband, I had to surge head on my own because I couldn't wait to see how it ends!
I'm about halfway through reading Winter Witch now, and whilst it's been fun, there was something which wasn't very clear in Declan's family background:
How do Isadora and Rose fit in?
Might I recommend a spoiler tag for such questions?
Answer:
Isadora was a childhood friend of Asmonde and Declan, who grew up and got a crush on Asmonde (which likely turned into a very one-sided romantic relationship). There was an incident with Asmonde and a fiend in which the fiend got loose and did Very Bad Things to Isadora before it could be corralled... the child Rose is the result. In Declan's mind, that incident makes both Rose and Isadora Asmonde's family... the ol' "if you (or your fiend) knock someone up, you ought to marry her" bit. But then Asmonde (who was kind of an ass anyway) got himself killed in a different summoning incident.
Isadora and Declan are friends/"siblings-in-law," Rose is his "niece," and if there are some other feelings there, they haven't been explored yet.
You can expect to learn a bit more about Asmonde in some upcoming web fiction....
An addition to James's answer re: Isadora and Rose:
Asmonde and Isadora were betrothed when Asmonde summoned a demon he could not control. Declan was furious at his brother for putting Isadora at risk and abandoning her afterward.
Asmonde wouldn't have seen it that way. Isadora was horribly wounded in the attack and not expected to live, so what purpose would there be in hanging around? He went back to his studies at the Acadame. When it became clear that she WOULD survive, he couldn't quite hide his revulsion at her injuries or her pregancy. Isadora saw the writing on the wall. She also realized that if word of Asmonde's failure got around, he probably would not survive his Acadamae training. A lot of people don't. She ended their betrothal and, to save his life, she never spoke a word of his part in the demon attack. It's not unknown for Korvosan women to seek....exotic partners, so she let people think of her as they wished. Declan, however, put all the pieces together. Any lingering regard he had for Asmonde vanished when he realized his brother was not only going to abandom Isadora, he was happy to let her take the fall for his mistake.
And it was a pretty big fall. Isadora's family wanted nothing to do with a half-tiefling grandchild. She was on her own at a very young age. Declan was the only family she had left. He feels pretty much the same way about her. He never stopped regarding her as his sister. That he regards Rose as his niece has nothing to do with Asmonde. Rose is his sister's daughter. That's more than good enough for Declan.
FYI, there's a short story in the Wayfinder #4 detailing an interaction between Jamang and Asmonde during their Acadamae days. This tale will shed a bit more light on the characters of both these men.
The story will also be posted at some point on the Paizo website as part of the Pathfinder Web Fiction.
I just browsed this thread, and managed not to spoil the book. The book is the next one lying on my to-read stack (with Dave Gross´ Prince of Wolves right behind that). I just would like to ask any posters here to be very careful and use spoiler tags liberally, so as not to spoil anything.
Stefan
FYI, there's a short story in the Wayfinder #4 detailing an interaction between Jamang and Asmonde during their Acadamae days. This tale will shed a bit more light on the characters of both these men.
The story will also be posted at some point on the Paizo website as part of the Pathfinder Web Fiction.
You just jumped up another notch on my People-Who-Are-Awesome-List Elaine.
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It feels to me like an action sequence from a Bruce Willis film inserted into a musical such as Les Miserables.
Even without benefit of my morning coffee, what I'm going to take away from this post is the imaginary slugline, "95% Les Mis, 5% Die Hard!"
Glad you liked the other 19 chapters. :)
Even without benefit of my morning coffee, what I'm going to take away from this post is the imaginary slugline, "95% Les Mis, 5% Die Hard!"
You know, don't you, that now we're going to have to write a book (or possibly a musical....) to go with that line. ;)
Egad. Now I've got an mental image of Bruce Willis singing. Excuse me while I go bleach my brain.....
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Egad. Now I've got an mental image of Bruce Willis singing. Excuse me while I go bleach my brain.....
If that's an image you don't want in your head, never see Hudson Hawk.
I just read the book in one sitting - I could not put it away once started, as I just wanted to know what happens next (took me about five hours). The last few chapters (in and around Whitethrone and the aftermath) seemed a bit "fast-forwarding" the story to me, but I see that this was supposed to be a fast-paced climax - which didn´t quite work for me.
Other than that, I enjoyed the book immensely, with interesting characters whom I could sympathise with, even if their motives were not always the purest, a world description that showed that magic plays a prominent role, yet isn´t an everyday commodity, and vivid place descriptions. I saw the
As an aside, the game mechanics were there, but woven into the story in a way that they were not obtrusive.
BTW, how are the mechanics of the game woven into the story? Are the protagonists defined within the rules beforehand, or do you work with a passing knowledge of the rules and see how it fits together, making changes if the story deviates too far from the rules? I would like the characters to be given stats, just because I find the idea interesting. After all, its a novel set in an RPG world.
Stefan
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Chief Creative Officer, Publisher
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Thanks for the positive comments, guys.
I wonder if you could help us out a bit by "going the extra mile" to help Pathfinder Tales. There are two really easy things you can do to help us ensure that the line is successful.
1) Tell your friends about the line, post about it on your blog, on Facebook, and (especially!) post a review here on paizo.com and amazon.com. So far Winter Witch has ONE Amazon review, and I know I count on Amazon reviews before I buy. You can help the line find a sure footing by helping us spread the word any way you can.
2) Go to your local book stores (Barnes & Noble, etc.) and look for Prince of Wolves and Winter Witch (and Plague of Shadows in March!). Pop back on the Pathfinder Tales message board and let us know what you find. If they _don't_ carry the line, it would certainly help for you to suggest to a clerk or manager that they give it a try.
Lastly, I urge you to consider starting an ongoing subscription to the Pathfinder Tales line. We intend to support this line with new novels just as thrilling as the first two, and the first year is critical since literally every new subscriber makes a huge difference to the bottom line.
For now we are releasing these books quarterly, so the pace is nice and smooth and easy on the pocketbook. Literally every single new subscription makes it more likely that the line will continue long into the future and provide countless additional adventures exploring many of the most interesting stories and mysteries in the world of Golarion.
But first we've got to get through the first couple years of establishing the line and building an audience, and that's means spreading the word as widely as possible, which is where dedicated readers come in.
Thanks for giving the line a shot, for enjoying what we've done so far, and for looking forward to more exciting adventures in the future!
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Thanks for the positive comments, guys.
I wonder if you could help us out a bit by "going the extra mile" to help Pathfinder Tales. There are two really easy things you can do to help us ensure that the line is successful.
1) Tell your friends about the line, post about it on your blog, on Facebook, and (especially!) post a review here on paizo.com and amazon.com. So far Winter Witch has ONE Amazon review, and I know I count on Amazon reviews before I buy. You can help the line find a sure footing by helping us spread the word any way you can.
2) Go to your local book stores (Barnes & Noble, etc.) and look for Prince of Wolves and Winter Witch (and Plague of Shadows in March!). Pop back on the Pathfinder Tales message board and let us know what you find. If they _don't_ carry the line, it would certainly help for you to suggest to a clerk or manager that they give it a try.
Lastly, I urge you to consider starting an ongoing subscription to the Pathfinder Tales line. We intend to support this line with new novels just as thrilling as the first two, and the first year is critical since literally every new subscriber makes a huge difference to the bottom line.
For now we are releasing these books quarterly, so the pace is nice and smooth and easy on the pocketbook. Literally every single new subscription makes it more likely that the line will continue long into the future and provide countless additional adventures exploring many of the most interesting stories and mysteries in the world of Golarion.
But first we've got to get through the first couple years of establishing the line and building an audience, and that's means spreading the word as widely as possible, which is where dedicated readers come in.
Thanks for giving the line a shot, for enjoying what we've done so far, and for looking forward to more exciting adventures in the future!
Erik,
I'm already a subscriber, but I'll definitely do what I can on the other tasks on your "Help Pathfinder Tales" list. ;)
Cheers!
It took me much longer than it should have to finish this book -- I got derailed by work stuff about halfway through -- but I picked it up again last night, got re-hooked in short order, and stayed up late telling myself "okay, just one more chapter" until there weren't any left. After
I thought it was great. I couldn't tell at all which parts were written by whom; any transitions seemed entirely seamless to me. The balance between familiar elements and new twists was very skillfully struck; there's enough to draw in people who love Vikings or Russian mythology or ice magic without crossing the line into the over-familiar. The descriptions of Irrisen were particularly good, IMO, especially the part about their *cough* food supplies.
Spoiler thoughts:
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It took me much longer than it should have to finish this book -- I got derailed by work stuff about halfway through -- but I picked it up again last night, got re-hooked in short order, and stayed up late telling myself "okay, just one more chapter" until there weren't any left. After ** spoiler omitted ** that book stayed glued to my hands till it was done.
I thought it was great. I couldn't tell at all which parts were written by whom; any transitions seemed entirely seamless to me. The balance between familiar elements and new twists was very skillfully struck; there's enough to draw in people who love Vikings or Russian mythology or ice magic without crossing the line into the over-familiar. The descriptions of Irrisen were particularly good, IMO, especially the part about their *cough* food supplies.
Spoiler thoughts:
** spoiler omitted **
I completely agree with spoiler two, I would have loved to see a sequel with her coming back in the manner you described. Pity it won't happen now.
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I completely agree with spoiler two, I would have loved to see a sequel with her coming back in the manner you described. Pity it won't happen now.Keep in mind we're talking about a world of divine and necromantic magic. I'm just saying ...
Oh I know, I just think had she went back on her own she would have been better. I mean with what happened it could effect her view you know :)
I completely agree with spoiler two, I would have loved to see a sequel with her coming back in the manner you described. Pity it won't happen now.Keep in mind we're talking about a world of divine and necromantic magic. I'm just saying ...
Yeah buuuuttt
Plus, in this specific instance, even if Liv did come back it'd be really hard to rewind to get that exact plot development back on course, because it's not like she's going to be all <3 <3 toward her former mistress at this point. You could still do some interesting things with her, for sure, but that particular interesting thing's off the table. We'll never know whether she could have made it through a standard Irrisen Witch Training Course without turning evil.
IMO Liv ought to stay dead. Be interesting if Ellasif ever runs across a different Irrisen witch, though. Especially one of Ulfen descent who doesn't immediately go all Maleficent on her.
Like a certain Sembian ghost I got to thinking about for some reason?
On the whole, I agree with Liane and Dave that you generally shouldn't kill off a character and then bring them back (unless, of course, that's the whole point of the story). With regards to such magic in conjunction with characters in Winter Witch, I already posted my thoughts in the discussion about it over here.
I started the book yesterday and found four typos in the prologue. I didn't think about writing them down along the way and at the end of the prologue, I could only remember three. Then I continued reading and didn't find quite so many in the next chapters and didn't commit them to memory. I'm half way through the book now and the errors are really not so frequent as in the prologue. So I thought "Well, it happens.", and didn't write them down.
But I just unpacked my monthly subscription package and found the free-please-give-it-to-someone-who-cares copy of Prince of Wolves. And this new copy is… a second printing ("Second printing January 2011")!
So…
1) Congratulations on the second printing of Prince of Wolves!
2) Seeing as you plan on reprinting the books, i should really have written down these typos.
So far, I remember :
"Woods burns," she persisted. (p29) -> "Wood burns," she persisted.
unable able to comprehend (p31) -> unable to comprehend
"Liv drinks goat's milk," Ellsaif said firmly. (p32) -> "Liv drinks goat's milk," Ellasif said firmly.
I'll post back what I can find on pages 151-348 after reading them.
I'll post back what I can find on pages 151-348 after reading them.
Here are the errors I found reading through the second part of the book:
• p211: She ran no more than a quarter of a mile before she
saw the marks beside river. -> She ran no more than a quarter of a mile before she
saw the marks beside the river.
• p238: “Welcome to Whitethone,” said a voice -> “Welcome to Whitethrone,” said a voice
• p291: “No,” admitted Jadrek. -> “No,” admitted Declan.
• p305: “I’m wizard, not a witch. -> “I’m a wizard, not a witch.
• p333: Mareska raised her staff -> Mareshka raised her staff
I hope this helps!
Thanks for pointing those out, Fayries!
Finished the book last night, an entertaining read all the way through, and -
2) Go to your local book stores (Barnes & Noble, etc.) and look for Prince of Wolves and Winter Witch (and Plague of Shadows in March!). Pop back on the Pathfinder Tales message board and let us know what you find. If they _don't_ carry the line, it would certainly help for you to suggest to a clerk or manager that they give it a try.
I bought my copy of Winter Witch from a local Barnes & Noble (Bella Terra, 7881 Edinger Ave. #110, Huntington Beach, CA 92647). I bought the only copy they were carrying, and I didn't see Prince of Wolves there. I'll keep an eye out.
Props to both Elaine and Dave for a thoroughly enjoyable romp across Avistan!