Mr. Fishy has allow diplomacy and bluff to work with out a roll. Because the roleplay was good the story or lie was believible.
This is always a dicey (no pun intended) thing to me.
If you don't ask for rolls in social situations, there's no point to buying the social skills, and Charisma (already far and away the most useless attribute) is devalued further.
On the other hand, if you always ask for rolls, roleplay is devalued instead.
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Mr. Fishy has allow diplomacy and bluff to work with out a roll. Because the roleplay was good the story or lie was believible.Then you give the appropriate bonuses to the rolls or fudge the result if the situation to unique enough to justify something like that. But to just let things pass on a regular base seems very simple.
btw, aren't there build in rules for believable lies?P.S. As for interesting characters. I had the plan once to create a character (John) around the following background though I haven't really figured out how to do it.
** spoiler omitted **
John is a textbook case for Ranger. He has Favored Enemy (Orc) (which functions just as well on half-orcs) and does the TWF combat style to get those feats without needing insane dexterity (though he may still be somewhat dextrous).
Ranks in Craft/Profession(Weaponsmith) should suffice for that background as they both can be used in place of applicable appraise or knowledge checks. Ranger gets plenty of skill points so you won't have to worry about that. Str, con and cha become your "big 3" (probably all 14), int and dex less so (12/13), and wisdom is up in the air. You don't need good wisdom to play a good ranger, but it helps. Even starting with an 8 and investing nothing but a +6 headband will net you your 4th level spells anyway.
That would be fun. I'd be willing to GM if you'd like. I haven't done a PBP game in over five years. I'm pretty much tabletop and OpenRPG these days (God I love me some OpenRPG).
How do you do so on the Paizo boards?
(Expected posts per day/week, dice rolling, any whiteboard type thing we can measure distances on - if if just roughly?)
lets get started on that pbp game. you can be GM. Sigfried would be an Awesome GMPC.
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lets get started on that pbp game. you can be GM. Sigfried would be an Awesome GMPC.That would be fun. I'd be willing to GM if you'd like. I haven't done a PBP game in over five years. I'm pretty much tabletop and OpenRPG these days (God I love me some OpenRPG).
How do you do so on the Paizo boards?
(Expected posts per day/week, dice rolling, any whiteboard type thing we can measure distances on - if if just roughly?)
There's a pbp forum and a pbp discussion forum (and a recruitment forum).
The boards have an in-built dice roller
But there's no whiteboard.
This is a cool thread, despite a bit of heat being generated here and there, and if you need a cleric I am interested in a bit of pbp.
Metagaming. Not roleplaying. You're doing it.
So dice aren't meta gaming? Do you have proof or is that an opinion?
So you agree that the -2 charisma modifier is but a guideline? Good to know, good to know.
So if the rules are a guidelines then that validates my arguement. Thank you. Paper? Mr. Fishy's character doesn't know about this paper.
So why exactly does having a character concept that works on paper and in-game summon so much anti-player resentment and the GM telling the player his character is ugly, and the GM using GM-Fiat (which is exactly what you're describing) to tell the player he can't do what he can do?
You are declaring Fiat too? Anti-player resentment? You have a 7 str your weaker than a man with a 10 or a 14 str. But if a 7 charisma is less attrative than a 10 or a 14 then it DM fiat? Or meta gaming? Right? That's fair the DM has no right to ask that you play your actual stats. Hell, Why have stats?
The mechanics fit the character, which is the whole point.
So skills increase stats, check.
Meta gaming? So can Mr. Fishy be the pot this time.
You are labeling the character based on assumptions that you are making about what his 7 Charisma means - assumptions which are not supported by the physics of the game world.
Opinion? Please cite examples that support your claim.
-2 to any cha base skill Diplomacy/personality, bluff/personality, disguise/appearance, intimidate/magnetism or personality. Minus that's a penalty and suggest of a weakness, see str [less carrying weight], con [fort saves and hp].
Here's a hard one (Maybe)...
A devout follower of the god of sarenrae, pierre was the eldest son of a local lord, who was liked well enough, but mainly known for his exploits in hunting, skilled in both the crossbow and the sword. Then, on one fateful trip into the wilds, he was maimed by a lioness (lost his arm), but not before cutting her down. He got himself to her den to discover a cub...and passes out. He awakes to find himself under the care of a twisted shaman, who seems to have "regrown" his arm through black magic. As he slowly recovers under the shaman's care he learns from him and slowly his soul becomes corrupted and he renounces sarenrae in favor of the shaman's black arts. He takes in the cub, using his dark knowledge only to twist it as well into a well trained killing machine...
He has since returned home, and has re-entered the aristocracy, but now terrorizes the land with his now full grown twisted lion, no one the wiser, using such terror to drive people from sarenrae's worship.
This is obviously taken heavily from the bad guy in Brotherhood of the Wolf, but I'd like to see how you'd make him.
Mr. Fishy has allow diplomacy and bluff to work with out a roll. Because the roleplay was good the story or lie was believible.This is always a dicey (no pun intended) thing to me.
If you don't ask for rolls in social situations, there's no point to buying the social skills, and Charisma (already far and away the most useless attribute) is devalued further.
On the other hand, if you always ask for rolls, roleplay is devalued instead.
There are still rolls. But if you ask a Guard to let you pass because you asked and rolled the DC is different than if you have a reason. Your RP effects your DC. Masterwork gear/believible lie.
^ Doesn't seem much like a lvl 1 character to me.
Mr. Fishy has allow diplomacy and bluff to work with out a roll. Because the roleplay was good the story or lie was believible.This is always a dicey (no pun intended) thing to me.
If you don't ask for rolls in social situations, there's no point to buying the social skills, and Charisma (already far and away the most useless attribute) is devalued further.
On the other hand, if you always ask for rolls, roleplay is devalued instead.
Dire - that's exactly why you do both. Player says X (insert RP here), rolls the dice, DM checks DC and whether or not anything else might apply (please don't insert unnecessary low CHA bias here), success or failure is determined... I'm not seeing a problem.
Give the player a fair shake, and then let the system do it's job. I fail to see the need for all the hate and assumptions that are being heaped on the 7 CHA character.
^ Doesn't seem much like a lvl 1 character to me.
Ashiel has done each out to level 5...be interesting to see his fall into corruption.
That having been said, I did forget that point...
-2 to any cha base skill Diplomacy/personality, bluff/personality, disguise/appearance, intimidate/magnetism or personality. Minus that's a penalty and suggest of a weakness
See, you know the rules. And yet, you still feel compelled to go further with it. Why are the rules not enough for you?
As per another poster - yeah, Fishy, take this to another thread.
Its just the same as if I had a player say "I tumble forward easily dodging the blows of the villain's henchmen, drawing my blade I knock the villains sword from his grasp before landing a stunning blow to his head" and then have to narrate a completely different scene when the dice show the Acrobatics test failed because the PC had no ranks in Acrobatics and the character got knocked on his arse by AoOs from the henchmen.
For this reason, maybe its best to roll first and then have the player narrate the result? Hmmm, not sure myself TBH.
That is a good way imho, yes. Good roleplaying requires you to make your roleplaying fit the numbers (roleplaying in the sense of acting out a role without a script). Before the roll, you don't even know the final numbers. You don't know if you walk the rope or tumble past the guard before you roll to see. Similarily, you don't know if you make a good or bad speech before you roll.
For example in the groups I've played someone might go like:-Ok I'll look for us a camp spot. *rolls* 1. Thats a 4... Oh look that bare hill top over there looks nice and soft.
Ofcourse you can act out some before the roll (equally good way imho ofcourse). Some GM even like to give bonuses based on that. But then I think a player should describe the actions reflecting her stats and bonuses and leave the final quality of the action open. It will damage the suspension of disbelief badly, if a player great at speaking gives a spectacular speech to the court and then rolls somewhere in the negative.
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^ Doesn't seem much like a lvl 1 character to me.Ashiel has done each out to level 5...be interesting to see his fall into corruption.
That having been said, I did forget that point...
Easy. Starts as a cleric of sarenrae multi-classed as fighter (or just take a proficiency feat for swords), and falls from grace. Replace sarenrae with "corruption" and take the Animal domain for the familiar. Obviously this character would need to be at least level 4.
^ Doesn't seem much like a lvl 1 character to me.Ashiel has done each out to level 5...be interesting to see his fall into corruption.
That having been said, I did forget that point...
/facepalm
You are, of course, correct.
There's a pbp forum and a pbp discussion forum (and a recruitment forum).
The boards have an in-built dice roller
1d20+7But there's no whiteboard.
This is a cool thread, despite a bit of heat being generated here and there, and if you need a cleric I am interested in a bit of pbp.
I would be interested in taking a Magus out for a spin.
a cleric of sarenrae can already wield a scimitar without penalty. assuming they don't fall.
i would love to take Her Excellency Young Mistress Umbriere Nox Astrum Lunas for a spin.
...yet more arguments...Dude, seriously, please take it to a new thread, and stop interrupting this one.
Yes, Mr. Fishy enjoys talking to himself as all who argue do.
Play as you will.
@Loaba tag
So dice aren't meta gaming? Do you have proof or is that an opinion?
Yes. The most common definition of metagaming is using out of game assets, player knowledge, so forth to affect things in game. In the case of the player speaking, he is now projecting his learned (or not) social knowledge and receiving an in-game benefit. In short, for giving a good speech, you're saying the dice shouldn't matter.
In the same way, I have read the SAS Survival Handbook and I know how to survive in a harsh climate, how to make several traps out of sticks and vines, and how to avoid freezing to death in the snow. I could give detailed instructions as to what my character is doing instead of rolling a survival check, though my character has no ranks in survival and likewise has grown up in a city and never even been exposed to any of this before. I'm metagaming by giving a good description, but the dice prevent me from abusing my narration to give my character a mechanical benefit.
Also, while wikipedia is not universally accepted in debates, I do believe the vast majority of online RPG communities will agree the following definition is correct:
Metagaming is a broad term usually used to define any strategy, action or method used in a game which transcends a prescribed ruleset, uses external factors to affect the game, or goes beyond the supposed limits or environment set by the game. Another definition refers to the game universe outside of the game itself.
In simple terms, using out-of-game information, or resources, to affect one's in-game decisions.
So yes, you're metagaming.
So if the rules are a guidelines then that validates my arguement. Thank you. Paper? Mr. Fishy's character doesn't know about this paper.
Exactly. You're trying to enforce your idea of the rules onto someone who is trying to use the rules as a guideline for creating their character. In Sigfried's case he perfectly emulates the player's vision of him in the mechanics, and yet you seem to be insistent on the rules meaning exactly what you say they mean (and yet it doesn't even say what you mean). So, your argument doesn't hold the water you swim in.
You are declaring Fiat too? Anti-player resentment? You have a 7 str your weaker than a man with a 10 or a 14 str. But if a 7 charisma is less attrative than a 10 or a 14 then it DM fiat? Or meta gaming? Right? That's fair the DM has no right to ask that you play your actual stats. Hell, Why have stats?
Because strength has a lot less variation. Charisma is noted as a combination of no less than four unrelated factors, whereas strength is literally defined as: "Strength measures muscle and physical power." - quoted from the PRD.
You chose the least versatile statistic to compare to the most versatile statistic in terms of narration and what it can mean in-game. If it said "Charisma is a measure of physical beauty and attractiveness" then I'd agree with you completely, but it doesn't and I don't. Charisma is far more broad and varied in what it can represent, and I think you know that.
Likewise, even with Strength, you might appear to be relatively fit but you might have a muscle disease or disorder that causes them to hurt and cap out quickly. You might be particularly heavy, and while you have a good amount of muscle most of it is being used for your own body movement and it makes striking or lifting tiring, so your 7 strength represents how much you can actually use it until you give out.
So even with the least versatile ability score, we can still make it fit several character concepts rather than requiring our character concepts to fit a number of a piece of paper.
As for "Hell, Why have stats?", it's because they are the baseline for what our characters are capable of doing in-game. It adds another layer of variation so that not every character with an equal amount of ranks is always the same mechanically as every other character, creature, or object in the game with the same ranks.
So skills increase stats, check.
Meta gaming? So can Mr. Fishy be the pot this time.
Skills can represent something the stat can also represent, and it has nothing to do with the character in-game other than making the mechanics fit the narrative, rather than the narrative fit the mechanics.
Also, your Diplomacy checks are beginning to fail it seems, 'cause my mood is quickly growing tired and you're not nearly as funny as I remembered you being. You're not even bothering to make a point or to show any sort of evidence other than repeating yourself in quirky 1-liners or trying to sound sarcastic. I am bored.
Opinion? Please cite examples that support your claim.
-2 to any cha base skill Diplomacy/personality, bluff/personality, disguise/appearance, intimidate/magnetism or personality. Minus that's a penalty and suggest of a weakness, see str [less carrying weight], con [fort saves and hp].
Cite the rule where it says a 7 charisma cannot be attractive but have a flawed personality. Examples have already been cited by another poster, pointing out mechanical examples proving you wrong, particularly within the realm of racial bonuses and the like.
Likewise, do you really think that being prettier makes you better at disguising yourself as someone else? I'm using your disguise/appearance as an example. By your definition - which is not the game's definition - a pretty human should have a much easier time disguising themselves as an orc than an ugly one.
Again, Sigfried's a handsome strapping young man who's personality is a bit grating on people at first, but he kicks his habits early in our story and resumes being just a fairly attractive guy who's not really that special, but later he gets the personality to go with it. He not good at pretending to look like someone else (disguise) and he has no idea how to work magic wands even a little (he can't make them work at all), and he's not very scary.
Sir Sushi, please darken our door no more.
Dude, seriously, please take it to a new thread, and stop interrupting this one.
Thank you Jess, for helping to get the thread back on track. ^-^
Ash, may i ask you when you are going to start that PBP game? i warn you that i am to have an appointment soon. i'll be back in a matter of hours.
I would be interested in taking a Magus out for a spin.
Here's a Dwarf Magus for you:
Tir'ron Archall
Dwarf Magus (5)
Str 14 Dex 15 Con 15 Int 16 Wis 11 Cha 5
Trait -- Focused Mind
1 -- Two weapon fighting
3 -- Arcane Strike
5 -- Combat Casting
B -- Power Attack
Tir-ron took to the clan's war training well -- perhaps too well in someways. His ability with weapon and armor progressed just as well as any other dwarf, in fact he quickly mastered the use of the urgosh a weapon that he would use in anyway practical -- either using it two handed as an axe, as two weapons when more blows were needed or with a buckler when he needed a bit more defense. While he tended to be quite in battle he would start barking orders commanding troops to move quickly and using tactics that were, well, undwarvish. While his methods were generally brillant his inability to get along well with his commanders (who were generally nonplused when the soldiers would start listening to him instead of their own commands) and the general sour attitude he displayed to those that didn't understand his tactics or obey quickly earned him few friends.
This is what probably led directly to his secondary studies. Since he didn't actually have many friends and didn't see much of a point in going to the normal social activities he would instead stay behind reading histories, military journals and whatever else he came across in the archives. When an half elven war mage journied to the clans holdings to read over an old account of a battle that his people had aligned with the clan's for the mage found Tir'ron in the library as well. Tir'ron and the half-breed quickly hit it off dispite their mutual dislike of each other (or perhaps because of it), and soon were sharing ideas on combat tactics and the histories they both had been reading. Tir'ron showed the half elf some new martial tactics and the war mage in turn started teaching Tir'ron magic.
While the blending of his combat training and the magic to enhance his combat abilities considerably Tir'ron soon found himself invited to go on an expedition for the clan -- with orders to take his time... his gruff (even for a dwarf) nature and unorthodox methods finally earning him a dismissal.
Play as you see fit. Your boredom is you concern. Nice attack isn't that a sign of debate break down?
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I had a DM say that we were going to continue a game that imploded due to inappropriate DM actions (he replaced the other DM), but that someone would have to make a new character, a paladin, becuase that's all that would fit in the game.
It turns out he wanted a paladin so he could have a church heirarchy give said paladin orders, and use this paladin to yank the rest of the party around by the nose (groan!), but I didn't know that yet....
I wanted to play a bard. So...my character was a bard in a family where the oldest son traditionally joined the paladin order. As the younger duaghter, she was free to galivant around on the force of her personality and winning charisma (the gift of many generations of charismatic paladin ancestors) as said bard. Then her family was killed, and she took up her brother and father's mantle, and their greatsword, which was nearly too much for her short frame, and joined the order. This was 3.5, so I took a couple levels of paladin after a couple levels of bard, then the feat Devoted Performer. Most of her levels were in bard, and with judicious feats like Knowledge Domain and 3.5 power attack (beautiful, beautiful 3.5 power attack), this character could raise her to-hit into the straosphere, then sacrifice it for fearsome damage.
I kept her under control in play - she was all about the group dynamic, being a bard first and foremost in her heart and personality - and usually she just buffed the party. But when the chips were down she would buff herself unleash huge amounts of damage. 3.5 Paladin and Bard are both pretty rough classes - but I had fun taking some DM fiat, and turning her into the character I wanted to play anyway.
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Ash, Gremy is awesome! I had him pegged for a monk, but I like the look of him now even better. Also, I'm going to have to take a look at reach weapons for my characters from now on; I can see I wasn't giving them their fair chance.
Thanks!
P.S. Gremy's initial influence was a bit of Indiana Jones, so I think he turned out excellently.
I would be interested in taking a Magus out for a spin.Here's a Dwarf Magus for you:
Tir'ron Archall
Uhh... why do I think there's an insult buried in there somewhere? :) Having said that, I don't play Dwarves and I don't do casters. Based on that, it would seem that a Dwarven Magus is exactly what I need. Seriously, my group has informed that my next character needs to be a caster. ;)
Here's a hard one (Maybe)...
A devout follower of the god of sarenrae, pierre was the eldest son of a local lord, who was liked well enough, but mainly known for his exploits in hunting, skilled in both the crossbow and the sword. Then, on one fateful trip into the wilds, he was maimed by a lioness (lost his arm), but not before cutting her down. He got himself to her den to discover a cub...and passes out. He awakes to find himself under the care of a twisted shaman, who seems to have "regrown" his arm through black magic. As he slowly recovers under the shaman's care he learns from him and slowly his soul becomes corrupted and he renounces sarenrae in favor of the shaman's black arts. He takes in the cub, using his dark knowledge only to twist it as well into a well trained killing machine...
He has since returned home, and has re-entered the aristocracy, but now terrorizes the land with his now full grown twisted lion, no one the wiser, using such terror to drive people from sarenrae's worship.This is obviously taken heavily from the bad guy in Brotherhood of the Wolf, but I'd like to see how you'd make him.
I'd say cleric all the way up to 5th level, and we can make this work great. Let's call the cleric Soren.
Soren 15 Point Buy
1st Level Human Cleric of Sarenrae
Init +1, Perception +2
AC 18, touch 11, flat-footed 17 (+5 armor, +2 shield, +1 dex)
Hp 10 (1d8+2)
Fort +4, Ref +1, Will +4
Melee Scimitar +2 (1d6+2, 18-20) or Slashing Gauntlet +2 (1d4+2) or Longspear +2 (1d8+3, x3)
Ranged Crossbow +1 (1d8, 19-20) or Sling +1 (1d4+2)
Cleric Spells (CL 1, Con +3)::Domains - Healing and Sun
Str 14, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 7
Base Atk +0, CMB +2, CMD 13
Feats - Toughness, Great Fortitude
Abilities - Aura, channel energy 1d6 1/day, domains, orisons
Skills (6/level) - Diplomacy +2, Heal +6, Knowledge (Nobility) +6, Knowledge (Religion) +6, Linguistics +6, Sense Motive +6; Check Penalty -4
Overview: At 1st level, Soren is a cleric channels his divine magic through the name of Sarenrae and is skilled with the scimitar because it's his deities' favored weapon and the crossbow due to simple weaponry. He's a spoiled noble's son with a good education but he's rather egotistical and it shows. He's got a gift for divine magic however. He's Lawful Good.
Mechanical Breakdown: He begins tough, he's got a solid armor class, the option to drop his sword & board and draw a spear if the time allows, but as a cleric he typically fights sword & shield to reduce the number of incoming attacks to get through (when the cleric drops you have problems). His crossbow's a bit expensive but it's got a solid range on it, but he'll mostly use his sling from behind his shield when he can because it's cost effective and he throws pretty hard.
2nd Level Human Cleric of Fangs
Init +1, Perception +2
AC 19, touch 11, flat-footed 18 (+6 armor, +2 shield, +1 dex)
Hp 16 (2d8+4)
Fort +5, Ref +1, Will +5
Melee Scimitar +3 (1d6+2, 18-20) or Slashing Gauntlet +3 (1d4+2) or Longspear +3 (1d8+3, x3)
Ranged Crossbow +2 (1d8, 19-20) or Sling +2 (1d4+2)
Cleric Spells (CL 2, Con +4)::Domains - Death and Animal
Str 14, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 7
Base Atk +1, CMB +3, CMD 14
Feats - Toughness, Great Fortitude
Abilities - Aura, channel energy 1d6 1/day, domains, orisons
Skills (6/level) - Diplomacy +3, Heal +7, Knowledge (Nobility) +6, Knowledge (Religion) +7, Linguistics +6, Sense Motive +7, Survival +3, Stealth +4; Check Penalty -4
Overview: At 2nd level, Soren has had his brush with death and been saved by the strange dark magician in the woods. Having befriended Soren after saving his life, he slowly twisted Soren's beliefs so that now he's renounced the word of Sarenrae and has changed his domains to Animal and Death during this period to reflect what he learned from the hermit. Since he worships no particular deity we choose scimitar as his favored weapon, partially because realistically he already knew how to wield it and partially out of spite for his old goddess who forsake him (using the scimitar to spread evil). He begins rearing the cub as his "sacred hunter". He's Lawful Neutral.
Mechanical Breakdown: During the game he became an Ex-Cleric of Sarenrae but then became an unassociated cleric choosing domains to represent the cruel hunt that the hermit convinced him of. We kept our scimitar proficiency and he's upgraded his armor to masterwork chainmail after his scrape with the lioness. He spends time in the forest training for the hunt, and arms himself with a masterwork cloak (+2 stealth) and places a rank in Survival and Stealth. His new alignment is Lawful Neutral and he retains the ability to channel positive energy and cure spells spontaneously so he doesn't bother to prepare any, instead opting for a pair of cause fears.
3rd Level Human Cleric of Fangs
Init +1, Perception +4
AC 20, touch 11, flat-footed 19 (+6 armor, +3 shield, +1 dex)
Hp 23 (3d8+8)
Fort +5, Ref +2, Will +5
Melee Scimitar +4 (1d6+2, 18-20) or Slashing Gauntlet +4 (1d4+2) or Longspear +4 (1d8+3, x3)
Ranged Crossbow +2 (1d8, 19-20) or Sling +2 (1d4+2)
Cleric Spells (CL 2, Con +4)::Domains - Death and Animal
Str 14, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 7
Base Atk +2, CMB +4, CMD 15
Feats - Toughness, Great Fortitude, Shield Focus
Abilities - Aura, channel energy 2d6 1/day, domains, orisons
Skills (6/level) - Diplomacy +4, Heal +7, Knowledge (Nobility) +6, Knowledge (Religion) +7, Linguistics +6, Sense Motive +7, Survival +3, Stealth +5, Perception +4, Handle Animal +3; Check Penalty -4
Overview: At 3rd level, Soren has continued on his path, focusing his divine magic through the darkest aspects of nature. He purchases a wand of cure light wounds and uses it to heal himself and his companions during his missions. He continues to grow in power and casts Death Knell at night before he goes to bed and holds the charge, so when he recovers his spells he has something already readied to empower himself and his magic with at the first kill.
Mechanical Breakdown: Shield Focus continues to improve Soren's ability to sustain punishment from most enemies and keep the healer up. He's almost to the breaking point for our cleric to become nearly unstoppable by the average person. With ranks placed into Handle Animal and Perception he continues to deepen his connection with the strange witchcraft he is learning from the old hermit.
4th Level Human Cleric of Fangs
Init +1, Perception +4
AC 20, touch 11, flat-footed 19 (+6 armor, +3 shield, +1 dex)
Hp 29 (4d8+10)
Fort +7, Ref +3, Will +7
Melee Scimitar +5 (1d6+2, 18-20) or Slashing Gauntlet +5 (1d4+2) or Longspear +5 (1d8+3, x3)
Ranged Crossbow +4 (1d8, 19-20) or Sling +4 (1d4+2)
Cleric Spells (CL 2, Con +4)::Domains - Death and Animal
Str 14, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 15, Cha 8 (7)
Base Atk +3, CMB +5, CMD 16
Feats - Toughness, Great Fortitude, Shield Focus
Abilities - Aura, channel energy 2d6 2/day, domains, orisons
Skills (6/level) - Diplomacy +4, Heal +7, Knowledge (Nobility) +6, Knowledge (Religion) +8, Linguistics +6, Sense Motive +8, Survival +4, Stealth +6, Perception +5, Handle Animal +4 (+8); Check Penalty -4, +4 Handle Animal w/Animal Companion
Overview: At 4th level, Soren has almost reached the pinnacle of his master's teachings. He has his masterwork cloak enchanted to a cloak of resistance, and purchases a circlet of charisma +1. He has successfully reared the cub of the cat who tore off his arm and has declared it his hunting companion, gained via his Animal Domain's 4th level ability. His animal handling reaches +4 and he gets a +4 bonus with his companion, allowing him to take 10 and teach the animal how to fight, heel, and guard.
Mechanical Breakdown: Soren now sports not only a ferocious companion, but he can cast bull's strength and bear's endurance on his companion, and will cast buffs on his animal before getting into the thick of things. He still channels positive energy but is slowly learning to channel negative energy instead. In the meantime, he can now channel 2/day.
5th Level Human Cleric of Fangs
Init +1, Perception +4
AC 22, touch 11, flat-footed 21 (+7 armor, +4 shield, +1 dex)
Hp 36 (5d8+12)
Fort +7, Ref +3, Will +7
Melee Mwk Scimitar +6 (1d6+2, 18-20) or Slashing Gauntlet +4 (1d4+2) or Longspear +4 (1d8+3, x3)
Ranged Crossbow +2 (1d8, 19-20) or Sling +2 (1d4+2)
Cleric Spells (CL 2, Con +4)::Domains - Death and Animal
Str 14, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 16 (15), Cha 8 (7)
Base Atk +1, CMB +3, CMD 14
Feats - Toughness, Great Fortitude, Shield Focus, Extra Channeling
Abilities - Aura, channel energy 3d6 4/day, domains, orisons
Skills (6/level) - Diplomacy +5, Heal +7, Knowledge (Nobility) +6, Knowledge (Religion) +9, Linguistics +6, Sense Motive +9, Survival +4, Stealth +7, Perception +6, Handle Animal +5 (+9); Check Penalty -4, +4 Handle Animal w/Animal Companion
Overview: At 5th level, Soren becomes Lawful Evil, and has realized from the old hermit that the strong shall dominate the weak and feed on them for their own satisfaction. He purchases four oxen (aurochs) and takes them back to the forest where he has prepared an alter for the ceremony. He lies the oxen down and one by one coup de grace them as he pours the blood into the sacred skull of a recently slain deer. Next to him, he takes a chicken that is bleeding out and casts death knell on the chicken, slaying it an empowering him to 6th caster level. From here, he casts animate dead upon the oxen, raising four fast zombies under his control (6 HD each) to join him in his hunt. He equips them with chain-shirt barding; he is ready to go rejoin his people and begin his hunt.
Mechanical Breakdown: Now Soren has gone from being a nobleman with a bit of an ego to a cold and calculating villain, who can now drive followers from his ex-goddess out of spite. His animal companion is fast, vicious, and benefits from his spells (he can cast Divine Favor or Righteous Might on his animal companion, woot!), and at 8th level he will be able to channel negative energy and greatly heal himself per channel (he can choose to affect himself, healing him, and also if any undead are affected he heals as they do). If his cougar/lion dies, he can animate it and then gather a new animal, giving him an endless supply of twisted animals to continue the hunt.
Overview: Soren can heal, harm, and tank. He can hold a party together by functioning as a dedicated healer through wands and the like. He's a good buffer and he provides a lot of meat-shields via animate dead. You could leave him Lawful Neutral if you wanted him to exist in the same party as Laerithe (they'd probably have some fun religious debates), but the two could work together effectively. All in all, he's dangerous and very effective.
I hope you like him Kryzbyn. ^-^
Ash, Gremy is awesome! I had him pegged for a monk, but I like the look of him now even better. Also, I'm going to have to take a look at reach weapons for my characters from now on; I can see I wasn't giving them their fair chance.
Thanks!
P.S. Gremy's initial influence was a bit of Indiana Jones, so I think he turned out excellently.
Thanks Mergy. ^-^
I could definitely see him as an Indy type figure (minus the whip, but either a bard dip or a feat could get you that - but a bard would probably be pretty good, even with the charisma penalty).I'm glad you liked him.
Uhh... why do I think there's an insult buried in there somewhere? :) Having said that, I don't play Dwarves and I don't do casters. Based on that, it would seem that a Dwarven Magus is exactly what I need. Seriously, my group has informed that my next character needs to be a caster. ;)
Actually, I think is background is pretty cool. The idea of a dwarf who even dwarves don't really like is kinda funny, and I could definitely see two of my tabletop players having a blast playing the dwarf AND the elf in the same party. "Feh! Fool, y'shoulda dern it lik 'dis!" *blast*, "On the contrary master dwarf, you're obviously mistaken, it would be best to do it like this!" *shazzam*
^_^
...pure awesome...
Wow. That rocks!!
...pure awesome...Wow. That rocks!!
Thank you Kryzbyn. Glad you liked it. ^-^
Ash, may i ask you when you are going to start that PBP game? i warn you that i am to have an appointment soon. i'll be back in a matter of hours.
Good question. I really haven't got a clue. :P
I guess I can start it now. I'll go check out the PBP board and post a quick summary or something.
Soren should definitely be taking Boon Companion when he gets the chance.
What's boon companion? :D
Ash, may i ask you when you are going to start that PBP game? i warn you that i am to have an appointment soon. i'll be back in a matter of hours.Good question. I really haven't got a clue. :P
I guess I can start it now. I'll go check out the PBP board and post a quick summary or something.
If you do start a PBP, could you drop a link to those threads in here?
Ash, may i ask you when you are going to start that PBP game? i warn you that i am to have an appointment soon. i'll be back in a matter of hours.Good question. I really haven't got a clue. :P
I guess I can start it now. I'll go check out the PBP board and post a quick summary or something.If you do start a PBP, could you drop a link to those threads in here?
I sure will. ^-^
It's a feat that would increase Soren's animal companion level by +4 (or up to his character level), basically making his animal companion as powerful as a druid's. From Seekers of Secrets.Soren should definitely be taking Boon Companion when he gets the chance.What's boon companion? :D
I believe it's in the AGP as well, for Rangers
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Soren should definitely be taking Boon Companion when he gets the chance.What's boon companion? :D
It's a feat which lets your Animal Companion act as though your class were four level higher, to a maximum of your character level.
Basically, it lets a ranger, or a cleric with the animal domain, have an animal companion with the same abilities as a druid of the same level.
It also lets multi-class druids keep 4 levels of animal companion advancement.
It's in a Paizo Pathfinder book (Seeker of Secrets) and the slightly ambiguous wording has been confirmed by the author.
Edit: ninjaed by multiple ninjas. I can barely walk for poison and shuriken wounds.
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I believe it's in the AGP as well, for RangersIt's a feat that would increase Soren's animal companion level by +4 (or up to his character level), basically making his animal companion as powerful as a druid's. From Seekers of Secrets.Soren should definitely be taking Boon Companion when he gets the chance.What's boon companion? :D
Yes, but only if they choose the Beast Master archetype. It's not technically a core or APG feat.
Yes, but only if they choose the Beast Master archetype. It's not technically a core or APG feat.I believe it's in the AGP as well, for RangersIt's a feat that would increase Soren's animal companion level by +4 (or up to his character level), basically making his animal companion as powerful as a druid's. From Seekers of Secrets.Soren should definitely be taking Boon Companion when he gets the chance.What's boon companion? :D
Right you are.
For the record, I think it's a great trade-off. You're locked into one kind of Animal type, but you're getting more quality in the process (full class level.)
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For the record, I think it's a great trade-off. You're locked into one kind of Animal type, but you're getting more quality in the process (full class level.)
Hmm? I think you've got it mixed up with one of the druid archetypes. The Beast Master archetype allows you to assemble a number of animal companions, giving each a few of your effective druid levels. At 12th level you get Strong Bond, which is effectively Boon Companion.
This is different from the druid archetypes that restrict you to one type of companion, ie. bear, wolf, cat.
For the record, I think it's a great trade-off. You're locked into one kind of Animal type, but you're getting more quality in the process (full class level.)Hmm? I think you've got it mixed up with one of the druid archetypes. The Beast Master archetype allows you to assemble a number of animal companions, giving each a few of your effective druid levels. At 12th level you get Strong Bond, which is effectively Boon Companion.
This is different from the druid archetypes that restrict you to one type of companion, ie. bear, wolf, cat.
My own Ranger has it, lemme look. ;)
Mergy - my mistake, I'm talking about Enhanced Bond from the PCCS.
Uhh... why do I think there's an insult buried in there somewhere? :) Having said that, I don't play Dwarves and I don't do casters. Based on that, it would seem that a Dwarven Magus is exactly what I need. Seriously, my group has informed that my next character needs to be a caster. ;)I would be interested in taking a Magus out for a spin.Here's a Dwarf Magus for you:
Tir'ron Archall
No insult, just a caster that I've enjoyed playing myself. Tir'ron uses the urgosh because it gives him options (defensive fighting with one weapon and a shield, two weapon fighting or a single two handed weapon), and the spells play into that too.
The nice thing about the Magus is while it's a caster figuring out what spells to use and when is much easier since they tend to be more direct casters.
I left off skill points and wealth because those are the personal touches I generally like doing myself for my characters, but I would suggest Knowledge(history), Knowledge(arcane), spellcraft, Tactics (in whatever form your group uses it), and sense motive.
The nice thing about a dwarf specifically for a magus is that move speed. While you start at 20 feet, the fact that you can upgrade your armor and keep your speed gives great tactical advantage, and you'll have just enough dex to make mithral armor look good for you.
I probably wouldn't chase the two weapon fighting too far -- maybe up into improved two weapon fighting but that would be about it.
No insult, just a caster that I've enjoyed playing myself.
I'm being overly sensitive. I imagine this is normal after having a close encounter with Mr. Fishy.
Tir'ron uses the urgosh because it gives him options (defensive fighting with one weapon and a shield, two weapon fighting or a single two handed weapon), and the spells play into that too.
The nice thing about the Magus is while it's a caster figuring out what spells to use and when is much easier since they tend to be more direct casters.
I left off skill points and wealth because those are the personal touches I generally like doing myself for my characters, but I would suggest Knowledge(history), Knowledge(arcane), spellcraft, Tactics (in whatever form your group uses it), and sense motive.
The nice thing about a dwarf specifically for a magus is that move speed. While you start at 20 feet, the fact that you can upgrade your armor and keep your speed gives great tactical advantage, and you'll have just enough dex to make mithral armor look good for you.
I probably wouldn't chase the two weapon fighting too far -- maybe up into improved two weapon fighting but that would be about it.
I have to agree with, Ash, a Dwarf that is disliked by his own kin has to be a real bear. ;)
OK! For everyone who wanted to participate in a short game with your new characters, here's the link!
Adventuring Optimized - Hobgoblins in Cinderland.
Glad you guys are enjoying the thread so far. ^-^
Ash, if you have the time, I have an idea. I was curious how you would optimize a multi-class character, someone who's a little MAD. In particular fighter/rogue. I have already built this guy (he's half way to 2nd level atm), but I'd like to see what you'd do with him.
Here's the concept I started with: He's a Varisian who grew up wandering Avistan with his family, living out in the wilderness as often as the city. During his youth he was taught the basics of woodcraft, as well as some of the legal-gray-area skills that are typically associated with the gypsy-like Varisians. He learned to fight with knives and short swords from his uncles, but he's considering branching out into other styles of combat. He's not a toe to toe fighter by any means, preferring to move around his foes to find their weak spots. He believes not being hit is superior to being able to take a hit. He's gruff and taciturn for the most part, but has enough street smarts not to be a sucker.
I'm cramped for time, typing this last minute, so if that's not enough info, let me know.
Thanks,
-H
OK! For everyone who wanted to participate in a short game with your new characters, here's the link!
Adventuring Optimized - Hobgoblins in Cinderland.
Glad you guys are enjoying the thread so far. ^-^
I'm in a bit ;)
i posted my first post. i will try it too. am i allowed to use Umbriere in your Alvena setting?