A legit 'Sage' caster class would be great, something with good knowledge that isn't just a bard or CHA/INT rogue in a fancy wrapper. An arcane skillmonkey?
A legit 'Sage' caster class would be great, something with good knowledge that isn't just a bard or CHA/INT rogue in a fancy wrapper. An arcane skillmonkey?
Loremaster?
A legit 'Sage' caster class would be great, something with good knowledge that isn't just a bard or CHA/INT rogue in a fancy wrapper. An arcane skillmonkey?Loremaster?
Or any wizard. Or an expert.
I think the problem with a full-blown sage base class is that it just doesn't offer enough to be viable. Plus, you can make plenty of other classes (bard, rogue, wizard, oracle of knowledge; expert for NPCs) do that job (and they have other skills as well).
I don't have all the books :shame: though I don't think we have a craft based (prestige) class. I know there is a 3.5 prestige class that does this and I think the idea is quite interesting.
Crafting your own weapons and armour at level 1 and getting extra bonuses around it to make them last till level 20 (powers based on your craft ranks and class level).
Maybe add in a construct of the day (1/2 hour of engineering per day and if your construct dies, you need to buy new resources).Add in the possibility to detect and dismantle traps as it seems like you mostly need a rogue for this.
I think it would be neat if there was a way to use Disable Device to "disable" a construct.
I don't have all the books :shame: though I don't think we have a craft based (prestige) class. I know there is a 3.5 prestige class that does this and I think the idea is quite interesting.
Crafting your own weapons and armour at level 1 and getting extra bonuses around it to make them last till level 20 (powers based on your craft ranks and class level).
Maybe add in a construct of the day (1/2 hour of engineering per day and if your construct dies, you need to buy new resources).Add in the possibility to detect and dismantle traps as it seems like you mostly need a rogue for this.
Dare I say the word, 'Artificer'?
Sounds like what people want is a MacGuiver-type class, something between a rogue, an alchemist and a wizard.
Dare I say the word, 'Artificer'?Sounds like what people want is a MacGuiver-type class, something between a rogue, an alchemist and a wizard.
Well, I did dare!
If people bothered to read my posts, they'd know that I rambled on quite a bit about such a class, and summarised it as "a mix of summoner, alchemist and some new ideas thrown in"!
Buggrem! I told'em! I told'em! Millenium hand and shrimp! ;-)
I think it would be neat if there was a way to use Disable Device to "disable" a construct.I don't have all the books :shame: though I don't think we have a craft based (prestige) class. I know there is a 3.5 prestige class that does this and I think the idea is quite interesting.
Crafting your own weapons and armour at level 1 and getting extra bonuses around it to make them last till level 20 (powers based on your craft ranks and class level).
Maybe add in a construct of the day (1/2 hour of engineering per day and if your construct dies, you need to buy new resources).Add in the possibility to detect and dismantle traps as it seems like you mostly need a rogue for this.
And Heal to incapacitate a living creature...
And Heal to incapacitate a living creature...I think it would be neat if there was a way to use Disable Device to "disable" a construct.I don't have all the books :shame: though I don't think we have a craft based (prestige) class. I know there is a 3.5 prestige class that does this and I think the idea is quite interesting.
Crafting your own weapons and armour at level 1 and getting extra bonuses around it to make them last till level 20 (powers based on your craft ranks and class level).
Maybe add in a construct of the day (1/2 hour of engineering per day and if your construct dies, you need to buy new resources).Add in the possibility to detect and dismantle traps as it seems like you mostly need a rogue for this.
Word. That would be cool, actually. Maybe a way to make a Heal check to give the sickened or nauseated condition? Stun via pressure points. Etc. etc.
I think I would have to agree and say that Artificer is on the top of my list of base classes I want. The one in Tome of Secrets is just awful and dreadful balance-wise.
I would like a true Shaman class. I liked the way it was handled by Super Genius Games and I think if there was more focus on getting bonuses from ancestors as well as aspects of nature, it would be different enough from the Druid. I would prefer that shamans just worship ancestors and aspects of nature, not bonafide deities (except maybe more nature themed dieties).
I would also like to see a ninja class, provided that they make it have good and interesting mechanics to make it more than just a monk with rogue abilities. Otherwise, I'd rather it just be a Prestige Class that a monk/rogue can take since the monk doesn't really have alot of choices for Prestige Classes (Assassin maybe?).
That's my wishlist.
Buggrem! I told'em! I told'em! Millenium hand and shrimp! ;-)
Do you have a 'thinking brain' dog too? ;-)
A melee combatant that can do area effects. Kind of like how the dervish moves and attacks 1 creature per square of movement. Sort of like a lightning bolt that does dagger + sneak attack damage.
Possibly doing interesting things with Lunge and Whirlwind Attack.
Possibly incorporated into a 3.5 Scout or Swashbuckler-like class.
Also, a Seeker-like class that combines detective, journalist, and scientific inquiry. Maybe a little philosopher, seeker of truth, added in for zest.
+2
I want a detective base class.Not a rogue variant. That already crashed and burned.
They can have tracking, Search, Craft alchemy, and all other skills that lend themselves to gathering evidence and solving crime.
This class also converts easily to Pathfinder Modern.
Musketeer is more in line with the medeval period.
Making gunpowder is more an alchemical feat.
An actual member of the Dupont family failed his craft explosives roll and blew himself up. I think an alchemist feat involving safety measures is in order.
Back in 3.0 Edition, one prestige class that i really liked was the Gnome artificer, that I think would deserve to become a base, 20-level class, like the artificer mentioned by KaeYoss. The two concepts were quite related, so I guess it would be an option.
I'd like to see an Int-base magician class that fills the role of the rogue: Using magic to solve skill-monkey type challenges, possibly using magic to act as a striker, like an alchemist or warlock. Maybe emphasizing traps, locks, enchantments, illusions, and mobility-based magic: teleporting, wall-climbing, leaping, phasing, haste, etc.
I really want to see a commando style base class that mixes rogue elements with fighter elements with ranger element
i don't feel just multiclassing works for this
I really want to see a commando style base class that mixes rogue elements with fighter elements with ranger element
i don't feel just multiclassing works for this
To me, you just described a ranger.
To me, you just described a ranger.I really want to see a commando style base class that mixes rogue elements with fighter elements with ranger element
i don't feel just multiclassing works for this
What would you add to the ranger that it doesn't already have? Or remove? Or trade out? It's already really really commando-like.
i will put it like this, i want armor training so i can move at full speed in medium armor with the check penalty reducing, i want the ability to move at full speed while stealthing without penalty, i want the ability to move through difficult terrain without penalty or speed reduction and be able to hide in plain sight and leave no tracks
sure i could get all of that if i multiclass but in order to get all that i will end up being 15 to 17 level. on top of that that is 3 classes which gives me a much lower favored class bonus on top of that some of the class features i might get i don't want or I'm not interested in.
i will put it like this, i want armor training so i can move at full speed in medium armor with the check penalty reducing, i want the ability to move at full speed while stealthing without penalty, i want the ability to move through difficult terrain without penalty or speed reduction and be able to hide in plain sight and leave no tracks
Well, you can't have everything.
But a ranger with light armour (or elven chain, which is still light armour) can do most of it. And maybe with a bit of fighter and/or rogue thrown in, you should be able to create just what you described.
The problem you'll always have with PF is that it's a class-based system, albeit a quite permissive one where you can customise quite a lot. But the point is that you don't just get what everything you want.
And I very much doubt that they'll do a class that is like a ranger with some other abilities mixed in. There's already something pretty much like that there. And they won't flood the game with a killion classes, one for every possible combination of abilities.
It's a better bet to either work with the tools you're given, or invent your own class and/or archetype to fit. Or look into something like True20 (either as an alternative for Pathfinder, or as a source of inspiration for making your own free-form variant of Pathfinder.
You might be able to make an arche-type that trades out favored terrain for armor training.
sure i could get all of that if i multiclass but in order to get all that i will end up being 15 to 17 level. on top of that that is 3 classes which gives me a much lower favored class bonus on top of that some of the class features i might get i don't want or I'm not interested in.
Yes, but there's a reason for all of that. You could swap Armour Training in for spells, that wouldn't be a bad exchange and you have 90% of your class with just one change. If you want the spells as well, swap out favoured enemy instead. These are minor variations on a single class, they don't justify a class entirely on it's own.
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A steampunk-esque, inventor/technologist, mad scientist character class. Think sparks from Girl Genius, or Nikola Tesla. It's one of the few holes in the Pathfinder system that isn't fairly easily filled with multiclassing / prestige classes / archtypes.
And I want to be clear on one thing...they shouldn't be creating MAGICAL items, they should be creating TECHNOLOGICAL items. If I wizard sees the clockwork monster you created bearing down on him, casting dispel magic on it shouldn't do a damn thing. Your abilities would work in an anti-magic field because THEY AREN'T MAGIC. That's the big problem I have with absolutely every other version of this concept I've seen put forward, it ends up being powered by magic, with slightly different fluff.
I definately would like to see a class that specializes in firearms.
Beyond that a workable Fencer class. They tried this with the free hand fighter but it is so painfully flat when compared to other styles, its barely worth considering. I think that fighting with a single weapon in one hand has so many disadvantages in the game rules that it needs to be worked on from the ground up to make it worthwhile.
I'd like to see a Tactician class (in addition to some of the others listed, such as a caster-hunter and a good 20 level assassin/ninja class). That is, a combat oriented fighter with INT as a primary stat, skills, and the ability to grant battlefield control bonuses to allies and/or penalties to enemies.
The Marshall was a close start to this, but needed more concentration on skills and more abilities. I'm thinking a 3/4 BAB, d8, INT+6 SP build. Light & Medium armor, martial weapons, etc.
An actual summoner style class
Non-martial artist pugilist
A primarily ranged focused class.
A steampunk-esque, inventor/technologist, mad scientist character class. Think sparks from Girl Genius, or Nikola Tesla. It's one of the few holes in the Pathfinder system that isn't fairly easily filled with multiclassing / prestige classes / archtypes.
And I want to be clear on one thing...they shouldn't be creating MAGICAL items, they should be creating TECHNOLOGICAL items. If I wizard sees the clockwork monster you created bearing down on him, casting dispel magic on it shouldn't do a damn thing. Your abilities would work in an anti-magic field because THEY AREN'T MAGIC. That's the big problem I have with absolutely every other version of this concept I've seen put forward, it ends up being powered by magic, with slightly different fluff.
I do agree that I'm annoyed by the pervasive nature of all things magical, and virtually everything worth using being crippled by dispel magic.
However, things not powered by magic have to be powered by something, and that's either a continual money drain, or a continual wind up of the tinker toy.
I would like to see short, modular prestige classes that could be assembled together in order to create a "custom class." In addition, this could more pacifically open that door of "monsters as pcs."
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My ideas
Things I wouldn't mind seeing as a base class:# Noble: The cavalier has invaded somewhat, and bard and rogue can work well as well, but maybe this would warrant its own niche.
The noble would be an expert at the core (d8 HD/Medium BAB, strong Ref and Will, 6+ skill points), and get some genteel/rakish fighting (formal duelling with a rapier, as befits a gentleman), some commander's power (both over allies and over enemies - nobles are used to be in charge and order other people around), some well-rounded education (nobles of course get excellent education, and being in charge of a noble house will hone administrative abilities) and finally some social abilities (courtly intrigue, and the nobles' social dance can be more dangerous than a dragon's lair, after all).
Basically a courtier, rake and leader all rolled into one.
# Artificer: Less the idea of the "mechanic" as discussed above, artificers are tinkerers. They don't use magic - not even alchemy or golemcraft - but only clockwork, artifice, technology.
Unlike the artificer attempts I've seen before, I wouldn't make this one do pseudo-magic. Instead, I'd come up with something else.
Part of it would be playing McGyver/The A Team (i.e. using parts at hand to come up with innovative and surprising contraptions tailored to the problem at hand), but there would be more permanent inventions as well.
Probably something vaguely like the alchemist - getting a couple of basic tools (like the alchemist gets his bombs and his mutagen, and, in a way, his extracts) and then being able to choose from a number of inventions to either improve these basic tools or learn new tricks altogether.
A clockwork companion might be part of the deal. I think of three basic types:
Bodyguard: much like a shield guardian golem; much like typical animal companions or eidolons - something that works more or less independent of its creator to attack)
Vehicle: could look like a mount, maybe something similar to an apparatus of the crab, could be like an armoured cart - something the artificer uses for moving around, to get where he wants them to go)
Device: This is something the artificer will carry. A doomsday device and/or super weapon. Not really walking around like the others, but something with a considerable "whoopdicity", like a clockworke gonne.
Of course, people will want to make tanks (i.e. vehicles with big weapons), which i think will either be Vehicle with weaker weapons mounted (which would be created using the general invention abilities, but not as powerful as a Device), or a Device mounted on a basic cart or something (again, something created using general invention abilities, which would be less powerful than a full-blown Vehicle)
So this class would look and feel like a mix of summoner, alchemist and some new ideas thrown in.
# Shapeshifter: We do have wizards, who can do this in a limited capacity with magic. We do have druids, who can do it better than wizards, but still only use some of their resources for this (they also have their nature bond and, of course, their magic - though the magic often helps the companion or the wildshaping.
What we don't have is a class completely focussed on changing shape.
This class would get shapeshift as an ability, and get it on first level.
Shapeshifters could stay in other shapes more or less all day (though this would at least start as a weakened version of the shapes, without full benefits of what a polymorph user would get. Access to the full power might be limited, at least at first.)
Shapeshifters would get access to all possible shapes available to druids and wizards, and maybe to some the rest can't do right now.
Shapeshifters would get additional powers (probably mostly from a list to choose from, like many other classes in Pathfinder) which would allow them to gain more characteristics of their form, to mix and match forms and gain a limited mix of powers from all forms.
For example, you might be able to become a huge, flying bear with tentacles.
For example, you might gain some of the magic/spell-like/supernatural abilities your form possesses, in a limited fashion. Turn into a gold dragon and breath weakening gas or a blue dragon and electrify the clouds. Turn into a demon and teleport yourself. Turn into an azata and gain some limited access to clerical magic (mabe as a spell-like ability).
+1 to all this stuff
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I totally agree that they have to fill a nitch, not just a cool power.
I would like to see a class that can't be good(only neutral/evil) as a balance to the Good-only Paladin. I kind as see it as an Assassin(yes I know we have a prestige class already but I hate that it's only evil characters. What if want to play a neutral assassin like Thane from Mass Effect or like that state sanction order from Morrowind).
I also second a leader/noble class.
I could get down with a machinist class.
Other than that there is much more they can add. I don't thin more than 20 or 21 base class are needed. We do need way more archetypes though!
I'd like to see something similar to the assassin but without being an assassin (i.e. evil).
I like the "I'm a rogue" but with a light spell progression. Invisibility. vanish, magic weapon, magic vestment, those types of self-buff things that would make a thief's job easier in a world of magic. As it stands now a rogue has a very difficult time actually doing anything in a stronghold thats warded by magic. the Bard is almost it.. but alot more bardy and alot less thief'y.
(thief, not rogue. infiltration/stealth/theft focus rather than general skill monkey)
-S
I'd like to see something similar to the assassin but without being an assassin (i.e. evil).
I like the "I'm a rogue" but with a light spell progression. Invisibility. vanish, magic weapon, magic vestment, those types of self-buff things that would make a thief's job easier in a world of magic. As it stands now a rogue has a very difficult time actually doing anything in a stronghold thats warded by magic. the Bard is almost it.. but alot more bardy and alot less thief'y.
(thief, not rogue. infiltration/stealth/theft focus rather than general skill monkey)
-S
Like a rogue with less abilities but ranger/paladin like spell progression? That would work ...
I thought i would start a new thread about this, after the APG came out some ideas i had were presented in the book so i thought i would see what base class ideas everyone had that didn't get created.
so what base class ideas would you like to see in the future from Paizo for pathfinder?
here are a few of my ideas.
1. A nonmagic healer
2. A Commando scout type class (high skill stealth armor wearing combat class)
3. Another unarmed base class
4. A leader silver tongue charisma based class
A non magical healer would be awsome
Somebody already used Gear Forged so let's call them Clockworks. Any construct put together by magic but not using continuing magic is basically magic inert. If it's powered by actual electricity, summoned lightning, not spell resistible lightning, that it stores in an internal capacitor, then it won't constantly run down. The whole thing could be a capacitor if it has a metal hull. If it's inside a dead magic zone it would be really deadly.
A Clockwork Panther could be made by a caster with craft construct, any electric spell with no spell resistance, Craft Armor or Weapons. Notably they can be made with a Blacksmith's aid instead.
An Artificer could easily qualify.
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However, things not powered by magic have to be powered by something, and that's either a continual money drain, or a continual wind up of the tinker toy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_watch
Also, just because I don't want to to be "magical" that doesn't mean that the level of steampunk tech couldn't be "fantastic" (ie, in some way beyond our own technology).
I think non-magical healing can be a class feature of one or more other classes. For example, an Int-based adventurer, maybe a discovery or discovery-tree for the alchemist, or possibly just a series of feats, like the Surgery feat from d20 Modern. It can be re-named Leechcraft, Bonemender, Expert Healer, etc. etc.
A whole class based on non-magical healing would be really, really niche. Unless it used healing for other purposes, like spreading plague, poisoning, using pressure points (Another kind of unarmed combatant???), etc. etc.
I think non-magical healing can be a class feature of one or more other classes. For example, an Int-based adventurer, maybe a discovery or discovery-tree for the alchemist, or possibly just a series of feats, like the Surgery feat from d20 Modern. It can be re-named Leechcraft, Bonemender, Expert Healer, etc. etc.
A whole class based on non-magical healing would be really, really niche. Unless it used healing for other purposes, like spreading plague, poisoning, using pressure points (Another kind of unarmed combatant???), etc. etc.
As a GM, I'd like to see a healer class as a NPC class, someone specialized in non-magical healing. An 'expert' just doesn't really cut it for that really, even with the fixes to Heal skill.
The base class healer could have optional class skills such as first aid and Surgery.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surgery#History
History
Main articles: History of surgery, Prehistoric medicine, and History of general anesthesia
At least two prehistoric cultures had developed forms of surgery. The oldest for which there is evidence is trepanation,[2] in which a hole is drilled or scraped into the skull, thus exposing the dura mater in order to treat health problems related to intra cranial pressure and other diseases. Evidence has been found in prehistoric human remains from Neolithic times, in cave paintings, and the procedure continued in use well into recorded history. Surprisingly, many prehistoric and premodern patients had signs of their skull structure healing; suggesting that many survived the operation. Remains from the early Harappan periods of the Indus Valley Civilization (c. 3300 BCE) show evidence of teeth having been drilled dating back 9,000 years.[3] A final candidate for prehistoric surgical techniques is Ancient Egypt, where a mandible dated to approximately 2650 BCE shows two perforations just below the root of the first molar, indicating the draining of an abscessed tooth.
The oldest known surgical texts date back to ancient Egypt about 3500 years ago. Surgical operations were performed by priests, specialized in medical treatments similar to today. The procedures were documented on papyrus and were the first to describe patient case files; the Edwin Smith Papyrus (held in the New York Academy of Medicine) documents surgical procedures based on anatomy and physiology, while the Ebers Papyrus describes healing based on magic. Their medical expertise was later documented by Herodotus: "The practice of medicine is very specialized among them. Each physician treats just one disease. The country is full of physicians, some treat the eye, some the teeth, some of what belongs to the abdomen, and others internal diseases."[4]
Other ancient cultures to have surgical knowledge include India, China and Greece.
As a GM, I'd like to see a healer class as a NPC class, someone specialized in non-magical healing. An 'expert' just doesn't really cut it for that really, even with the fixes to Heal skill.I think non-magical healing can be a class feature of one or more other classes. For example, an Int-based adventurer, maybe a discovery or discovery-tree for the alchemist, or possibly just a series of feats, like the Surgery feat from d20 Modern. It can be re-named Leechcraft, Bonemender, Expert Healer, etc. etc.
A whole class based on non-magical healing would be really, really niche. Unless it used healing for other purposes, like spreading plague, poisoning, using pressure points (Another kind of unarmed combatant???), etc. etc.
I think an NPC Expert Healer class could just use the Heal skill and maybe some homebrew feats to make Heal better, like Surgery (heals 1d6 points of damage per hit die of the patient, leaving the patient exhausted if they fail a DC 20 Fortitude save, otherwise they're only fatigued.)
Maybe Improved and Greater and Advanced that cure 1d8, 1d10, and 1d12 points each. Other ones that remove conditions, Others that remove Ability Damage and Improved to Ability Drain.
As a GM, I'd like to see a healer class as a NPC class, someone specialized in non-magical healing. An 'expert' just doesn't really cut it for that really, even with the fixes to Heal skill.I think non-magical healing can be a class feature of one or more other classes. For example, an Int-based adventurer, maybe a discovery or discovery-tree for the alchemist, or possibly just a series of feats, like the Surgery feat from d20 Modern. It can be re-named Leechcraft, Bonemender, Expert Healer, etc. etc.
A whole class based on non-magical healing would be really, really niche. Unless it used healing for other purposes, like spreading plague, poisoning, using pressure points (Another kind of unarmed combatant???), etc. etc.
I think an NPC Expert Healer class could just use the Heal skill and maybe some homebrew feats to make Heal better, like Surgery (heals 1d6 points of damage per hit die of the patient, leaving the patient exhausted if they fail a DC 20 Fortitude save, otherwise they're only fatigued.)
Maybe Improved and Greater and Advanced that cure 1d8, 1d10, and 1d12 points each. Other ones that remove conditions, Others that remove Ability Damage and Improved to Ability Drain.
You know, I think surgery was handled best by the Shadowrun system: Surgery inflicts damage, but heals conditions. You can then heal the damage normally.
NOTE: I don't have APG, so there may be options in there that cover these. It's on my Christmas list. ;)
I'd like to see a "martial leader" -- performs heal/buff/debuff functions analogous to a Cleric without the religious trappings and spellcasting. "Tome of Secrets" had a Warlord class (essentially the Marshal with a different skin), but I would expect the Paizo folks could probably come up with something better. :) The Cavalier appears to have some of this going on, but has the unfortunate effect of also being grafted to a horse.
I'd like to see a functional Warriormage as a 1-20 class. The PF version of the Eldritch Knight appears much improved over the 3.x version, but it still requires a lot of pain at the lower levels to get to and gets about where it should be just in time for the campaign to end. (Again, I could see this analogous to a Cleric without the religious trappings, but this time -with- spellcasting.)
As for the desire for a "commando" type class, I agree that a Rogue/Ranger combo would probably do the job, but I also quite liked the Scout class -- sort of like Rangers with the woodsy mysticism removed. It worked.
Beyond that ... I'm good, I think. Every other kind of character type I have much interest in, can be covered by existing classes.
-The Gneech
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I hold nothing against new base classes, but having new ones appear too often would dilute the core appeal of the game, I am afraid. So Okay, but not too often. Quality first.
Of the suggestions above, the one I would like best would be a kind of detective, even though the Inquisitor already covers some of that ground IMO.
best,
If it can be covered by a variation in an existing class, you should do that instead. If it is just a combo of two classes, like a multi-class, you can do that instead.
It has to be different enough to existing classes and have an original concept to be worth being a base class.
Can you do a detective with a variation of rogue?
Can you make a fencer or swashbuckler type with a variation of fighter?
That's the test I would impose on any base class that was proposed.
If it can be covered by a variation in an existing class, you should do that instead. If it is just a combo of two classes, like a multi-class, you can do that instead.
It has to be different enough to existing classes and have an original concept to be worth being a base class.
Can you do a detective with a variation of rogue?
Can you make a fencer or swashbuckler type with a variation of fighter?
That's the test I would impose on any base class that was proposed.
I tried to play the variation in cons. and the fact that it was a variation of Rogue seemed to annoy the NPCs. In the 3.5 version, they cut it. It's like basing a fox on a small dog.
((We actually have a class called the Noble coming out before the end of this month which it a charisma based, "silver tongue", class. Look forward to it!))
I want the Athena. A paladin version of the Witch class that would take the place of the Hexblade.
I tried to play the variation in cons. and the fact that it was a variation of Rogue seemed to annoy the NPCs. In the 3.5 version, they cut it. It's like basing a fox on a small dog.Yeah, sometimes variations and multi-classing will just fall short. Details are important.
I agree with some classes this is necessary.
A Detective would be a skills-based character with a lot of knowledge and social skills. That can be represented with a rogue, but a specialist could add details that are more appropriate. The question is then what details, and are they worth making a new class?