Charging Cleave[/b]]
Requires: Cleave, Improved Over-run
Benefit: While charging, a character with this feat may gain the benefit from his 'cleave' feat, treating another enemy along his charge path of his choice as the next enemy to be struck. If a target is attacked and not killed, they gain an attack of opportunity as normal while the Charge is continued. Should a Charging Cleave attempt to move through the space of an enemy that was attacked but not killed, an over-run attempt must be made (but is treated as part of the charge, rather than a standard action.)...epic...
dually noted.Didn't know you were an ettin.
Yes. not a normal one mind you. My other head is up my ass.
Ok. You should have said that before but fine. 55% of total wealth. On one thing. He damn well better be good at that one thing. If anything attacks his touch AC of 13, he can do nothing about it. If anything attacks his decent, but not great saves his AC will not help him.
So? At that level, most fights in modules are against his AC.
Ok. A Troll sees some tin can it can't hit, and a couple of people behind it. It runs away, and gets the attention of the other Trolls.
How does the troll know it can't hit just by sight? It will have to be in combat a couple of rounds to realize that.
And, sometimes the module's listed tactics don't permit retreats.
If you don't pursue, the whole tribe comes down on your head eventually. If you do, you get attacked from multiple sides. The doorstop Paladin can only block one door at a time.
Which is all that's needed. In most dungeons, it's easy to find a choke point to defend.
But of course if you don't apply rudimentary tactics to the encounter it's easy to think a not all that impressive AC is actually useful.
But of course if you aren't used to PCs applying rudimentary tactics to encounters it's easy to think that impressive ACs are not actually useful.
And if the AC is "not all that impressive", why is your Troll running away just from seeing it?
Because you are level 5, and the entire party has died at least once, leaving no member of the original party alive.
I've run six campaigns and played in four more. This has never happened.
Because you are dying at least as fast as you are gaining levels, meaning you're going nowhere fast.
Never seen this either. Are you sure you are playing the same game? Or is this one of those theoretical discussions like Pun Pun and infinite wishes that have nothing to do with how the game is played?
2: If the Fighter has to double dip on loot to get enough gear, that is just as indicative of a problem as it is when he only gets his fair share and it's not enough.
He doesn't "have" to double dip. Other party members are smart enough to realize pumping the tank's AC protects everyone in the party. It's a common tactic.
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:( I did not mean to offend you.I guess I just have difficult time understanding where you are coming from on the fighter position is all, afterall how could I suggest ways to fix it if I dont think it needs fixing :)
but I digress.
I was only stating that some of the things, like the monk comments, have been discussed here to the point where they are near dead because suggestions to fix have already been suggested and such and that the monk stuff should go on the thread for monks (there was a reason a whole forum was adjucated to it)
With that said though this is your thread and I will respect your guidelines. Just trying to cut down on chatter about certain things, not my place I suppose.
I found a post JJ put on the attacking and moving thread about Vital Strike eventually being free and that iterative attacks would go away entirely!
Blew my mind and I dont disagree really at all, could help meleers significantly.
What would people suggest for attacking multiple targets along a path though? if that were to happen.
I could see a fighter hacking through some goblins at a full speed run to the BBEG I guess
You did not offend at all. I may have overeacted and want to apologize. I just do not want to get this thread locked. If the thread does get to off track than by all means suggest it get back on track.
Listen you young whippersnappers in my day we had to walk for 50 miles in the snow barefoot carrying our D&D books on our heads. For dice we carved them from wood from the nieghbours tree we cut down. And we used pen and paper not character builders and we were happy.
BAHAHA that reminds me of the good old days when i was a wee boy.. no car and my friend lived a few houses down... friday night was adventure time
good times.
friday night was adventure timeand Saturday afternoon, and Saturday night, and Sunday afternoon, and oh, snap! I forgot to do my homework!
Mom I was doing math
Its not silly
We were outside! I was roaming the hills of mandolor fighting dragons!
We slayed it after a few mighty blows
What do you mean I should join the football team?
Yes mom...
Okay...
Hey I am going to go do my math homework now (pulls out pencil and character sheet and a few dice)
Calm down we are doing probability... jeeze..
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Hah, that's cool. I've yet to learn enough coding to do anything of the sort.I'll admit I've examined a few character builders and contemplated using them, but none of them were ever versatile enough for me. I tend to develop a mental library of various sources, and it bugs me when I know more useful character options than the character builder does.
Well, keep in mind that this was 25 years ago, for 1E. I used it to cheat on my algebra homework, too. I don't know a damn thing about modern programming languages.
But, back on topic:
Power creep, rules bloat, artifacts of backward compatibility.
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Character builders are either too simple or too complex for me. I end up not being able to adjust for house rules or I have to toggle a thousand levers to print my sheet.
I swear I'm going to start typing my sheet in notepad and only add relevant info. Preprinted sheets have too much deadspace and filler objects.
Character builders are either too simple or too complex for me. I end up not being able to adjust for house rules or I have to toggle a thousand levers to print my sheet.
I swear I'm going to start typing my sheet in notepad and only add relevant info. Preprinted sheets have too much deadspace and filler objects.
I hate to say, I'm kinda in the same boat.
I could probably generate a nice cool excel spreadsheet that handles all my houserule filters and has easy toggle buttons for various common buffs but man that's a ton of work.
So? At that level, most fights in modules are against his AC.Flasks. Tanglefoot bags. Your argument is invalid.
How does the troll know it can't hit just by sight? It will have to be in combat a couple of rounds to realize that."Ug want eat tasty flesh, but metal man get in way. Ug try go around."
Which is all that's needed. In most dungeons, it's easy to find a choke point to defend.The enemies are coming from multiple sides. Your argument is invalid.
I've run six campaigns and played in four more. This has never happened.With such obviously poor tactics on the part of the enemies, which largely revolve around humoring the players I'm not surprised no one has died. I mean, you haven't asked their permission to kill them so that would be like, totally unfair right?
Cowardly and intelligent trolls... psh
Posts removed.
Let's not let a good topic be buried by posters telling other posters that they're not playing the "right" way or having BadWrongFun. Keep this topic on-topic please!
Flasks. Tanglefoot bags. Your argument is invalid.
Not in the module. Your argument is invalid.
How does the troll know it can't hit just by sight? It will have to be in combat a couple of rounds to realize that."Ug want eat tasty flesh, but metal man get in way. Ug try go around."
Ug's master ignored question. Ug's quote is invalid.
The enemies are coming from multiple sides. Your argument is invalid.
Terrain doesn't allow enemies to come from multiple sides. Your argument is invalid.
With such obviously poor tactics on the part of the enemies, which largely revolve around humoring the players I'm not surprised no one has died. I mean, you haven't asked their permission to kill them so that would be like, totally unfair right?
Who said no one died? Your argument is invalid.
Flasks. Tanglefoot bags. Your argument is invalid.
Not in the module. Your argument is invalid.
How does the troll know it can't hit just by sight? It will have to be in combat a couple of rounds to realize that."Ug want eat tasty flesh, but metal man get in way. Ug try go around."Ug's master ignored question. Ug's quote is invalid.
The enemies are coming from multiple sides. Your argument is invalid.Terrain doesn't allow enemies to come from multiple sides. Your argument is invalid.
With such obviously poor tactics on the part of the enemies, which largely revolve around humoring the players I'm not surprised no one has died. I mean, you haven't asked their permission to kill them so that would be like, totally unfair right?Who said no one died? Your argument is invalid.
+1
I have put several people on ignore already
Could someone please point me to the Ignore button?
It's a script someone posted here, not actually part of the forums. Do a search for Greasemonkey on the forums and it should pop up.I have put several people on ignore alreadyCould someone please point me to the Ignore button?
Thanks, TOZ.
Again. The level III game would require such a major move away from 3.5 (overhaul of combat system, to begin with) that it would move beyond the familiar territory of the average level I-II player. At which point you would end up with a game that would bomb within a year, because nobody would play it.
"Improvement is too hard, so let's wallow in the same s~+$ as always" is the most anti-constructive position in the history of ever.
And if you believe that having a ruleset that is balanced at least to the point of not having total trap options, as well as instant gamewinners, AND clearly identifying powers that must be GM-adjudicated due to their openendedness/win potential (as more than one superhero game does) is, for some utterly incomprehensible reason, bad, I don't even want to talk with you.
Trailblazer and Fantasycraft both took shots at being Level III games and, well, where are they now ? They moved outside of the "safe zone".
No. They failed to achieve Level III standards. Their mechanics sucked. The same goes for 4E by the way, except it has much greater marketing inertia.
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Again. The level III game would require such a major move away from 3.5 (overhaul of combat system, to begin with) that it would move beyond the familiar territory of the average level I-II player. At which point you would end up with a game that would bomb within a year, because nobody would play it."Improvement is too hard, so let's wallow in the same s#*~ as always" is the most anti-constructive position in the history of ever.
And if you believe that having a ruleset that is balanced at least to the point of not having total trap options, as well as instant gamewinners, AND clearly identifying powers that must be GM-adjudicated due to their openendedness/win potential (as more than one superhero game does) is, for some utterly incomprehensible reason, bad, I don't even want to talk with you.
Trailblazer and Fantasycraft both took shots at being Level III games and, well, where are they now ? They moved outside of the "safe zone".No. They failed to achieve Level III standards. Their mechanics sucked. The same goes for 4E by the way, except it has much greater marketing inertia.
I'm not even talking about the quality of a ruleset, I'm talking about the sale-ability of a ruleset. And the business factor is something that eludes the Denist school of thinking so much, that I sometimes wonder if the Denizens even know how modern market works.
If you make changes that move the ruleset to "Level III" standards, you're off the base 3.5 in a way so great that people just won't buy your stuff. Because it's not something they are used to after 10 years of 3.5 digging deeply under their skin. TB and FC don't make money because they moved too far away. 4E is on a slope because it moved too far away (and also, because it began to run around like a headless chicken at some point). PF makes money because it's still the same old song.
And if anybody is to blame it's WotC for releasing 3.5 and capturing the market so strongly with it. The iteratives, the mundane Fighter, vancian magic and all that sits in the people's minds so deeply, that they reject ToB as a "wuxia assault on the principles of D&D". See what I mean ?
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More love for skills.
I've houseruled most of the relevant bits of Complete Adventurer in.
Extend aid another bonus like 3.5 Rules Compendium.
Clean up 3.5e rules cut and paste
Errata is removing the obvious 3.5 stuff that got in, what's really needed is a proper re-write that makes no assumptions of 3.5 knowledge (like the +1 to attribute per 4 levels) and editing to get relevant rules in one place (like the unarmed attacks/gauntlet/Monk debate) in a format giving a standard rule and clearly marked exceptions to it.
Continue standardising sub-systems to streamline rules and reduce rule repetition e.g. detect X rules.
Remove class X only limits to feats. A hangover from 3.0 which said it was a bad idea then.
Fix Exotic Weapon Proficiency to make it worthwhile (free weapon focus??)
Increase falling damage, I use 1d10 for medium size then scale up and down the dice by creature size (the larger they are, the harder they fall).
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They were trying to go for it, but they failed miserably. Instead they got a game that doesn't function at any level of play. Not even I. And given that I works with no rules at all you'd have to be screwing up rather hard in order to make rules that can't support that.
This is not a what ia wrong with 4E thread. Stick to topic.
Agreed. Imo its really not worth it to take Exotic WP now. Almost a waste of a feat.
Fix Exotic Weapon Proficiency to make it worthwhile (free weapon focus??)
It depends from the weapon I guess. A Falcata is not a Bastard Sword.
And you can take a Double Weapon prof just becaus you can sink all the feats into a weapon and go 1H/2H anyway. Not to say that is ZOMG UBERR!!11! but at least to consider.
Agreed. Imo its really not worth it to take Exotic WP now. Almost a waste of a feat.
Fix Exotic Weapon Proficiency to make it worthwhile (free weapon focus??)
Actually I was wondering if sometime in the future exotic weapons would be changed to manage a particular schtick.
Overall damage isnt really a good reason to take an exotic weapon, the weapon should give you the ability to do something out of the ordinary, thats why it is exotic.
I understand some have a combination of a few small things, like the shuriken.
That was why I always liked the spike chain in 3.5, easily the best weapon in the game IMO. Close range? no problem. reach? no problem. Trip, disarm, and decent damage? no problem.
You can call the spiked chain broken but it was disarmable and they could trip you if you messed up. It only did 2d4 after all with a cool little reach ability that was arbitary since most reach weapons can be altered or move five feet to swing.
Would really like to see the exotic move more in the direction of... well exotic ability.
Make the weapons interesting dont raise the DPR
EDIT:
Actually after I posted this I went to pour through my books and online for the exotic weapons.
I have to say I am not disappointed in my respects. Just maybe vamp a few... like the kama... poor awesome looking weapon almost pointless by anyone not a monk... :)
The problem with exotic weapons is with how arbitrary they are. Really, I think the first mistake was to call them "exotic" in the first place.
There's three reasons weapons are classified as exotic.
1) They're "better" then martial weapons. The flaw: they aren't that much better. Most of the exotic weapons are such a minute upgrade that it honestly isn't worth it.
2) They're "non-European." The flaw: It makes the game stupidly Euro-centric, and the "stupidly" is the word of note there, because it's, well, stupid. You're stating that if a player wants to make someone that isn't white bread, they have to pay a feat to do so. Hey, I want to make a character that isn't a medieval knight! The game: "Hey screw you buddy, spend one of your feats to do so!"
3) They're "harder to use" then martial weapons. The flaw: It's completely arbitrary what constitutes as "too hard" and what doesn't. The longbow we all love and treasure was by and large a very specialized weapon, taking several years of specialized bow training to use properly. It's given to just about every martial character ever forever.
The flaw that combines them all: All three are placed in the same area. So, let's take the repeating crossbow. It fits definition 2 as a weapon that originated in China. But it's substantially weaker then any type of bow, and the only classes that don't have bow expertise is the wizard or sorcerer, so it misses definition 2 by miles, and it is probably the most hilariously simplistic weapon imaginable to use, so it misses definition 3 by just as much. What about the bastard sword? It's European, it doesn't require specialized training...but it's minutely better then the longsword, so it's considered "exotic."
The very idea of "exotic weapons" has been flawed from day one.
As others are saying, exotic weapons do need a serious overhaul. Honestly, I find the entire proficiency/BAB system itself far too ubiquitous.
I would like to see a warrior's proficiency with weapons and a spellcaster's proficiency with various types of spells broken down a lot more, personally.
Agreed. Imo its really not worth it to take Exotic WP now. Almost a waste of a feat.
Fix Exotic Weapon Proficiency to make it worthwhile (free weapon focus??)
Actually I was wondering if sometime in the future exotic weapons would be changed to manage a particular schtick.
Overall damage isnt really a good reason to take an exotic weapon, the weapon should give you the ability to do something out of the ordinary, thats why it is exotic.
I understand some have a combination of a few small things, like the shuriken.
That was why I always liked the spike chain in 3.5, easily the best weapon in the game IMO. Close range? no problem. reach? no problem. Trip, disarm, and decent damage? no problem.
You can call the spiked chain broken but it was disarmable and they could trip you if you messed up. It only did 2d4 after all with a cool little reach ability that was arbitary since most reach weapons can be altered or move five feet to swing.
Would really like to see the exotic move more in the direction of... well exotic ability.
Make the weapons interesting dont raise the DPR
EDIT:
Actually after I posted this I went to pour through my books and online for the exotic weapons.
I have to say I am not disappointed in my respects. Just maybe vamp a few... like the kama... poor awesome looking weapon almost pointless by anyone not a monk... :)
Yeah, I REALLY miss the spiked chain. It was nerfed to uselessness. They fixed the trip combat maneuver and that is all that was needed.