
BPorter |

Ok, so with the annoying intrusions of that thing called Real Life, my regular gaming sessions haven’t run for almost 2 months. While face-face will always be preferred, I’m thinking of utilizing a VTT for periods where scheduling is more problematic in order to game more frequently, maintain continuity better, and advance a plotline a bit faster.
Here’s the problem: I’ve never utilized one before. I’ve done some preliminary homework and while some have impressive features, I have no appreciation for how complicated or efficient a given VTT is.
Game System: Pathfinder (of course)
Which VTTs do you recommend & why?
How does GM prep increase/decrease for VTT sessions vs. in-person tabletop sessions?
What nuances/gotchas do you need to watch out for?

Leonal |

I really like Fantasy Grounds II with the d20_JPG ruleset modified for Pathfinder because of it has a good looking and functional character sheet, design and layout.
Prep time depends on how much you put into it. I scrap images and maps from PF AP/Modules and paste in some or most of the NPC stats. Though you can put in all story elements and more should you want to. I use VoIP and don't have as much need to have text ready at hand in the program.
I haven't GMed in-person due to studies abroad for the last four years so I can't really compare to that.
That you can customize the skin-design allows for a better feel depending on your campaign/setting.
The 3d dice are a nice bonus for the table top feel.
Features I wish were present:
*Support for Unicode text to be able to type in Korean, Japanese, Chinese or other languages with special characters.
*Better network/connectivity solutions.
Only main problem I have with FGII is that it doesn't handle connection problems too well leading to players sometimes disconnecting and having to reconnect. (A friend of mine and I have a lot of packet loss between us which increases this).
If I weren't using FG I'd probably either use MapTools for it's awesome map functions, or d20Pro which allows for import of characters created in Herolab. However since d20Pro is only for d20 systems, it's not as attractive should you want to play something else I think.

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I really like Fantasy Grounds II with the d20_JPG ruleset modified for Pathfinder
+1 here.
My group actually started out using Fantasy Grounds around the table for record-keeping, etc. Since then, a couple people have moved away and we now use it for our gaming and to stay in touch.
Pros: 1) Multi-system support (one of the guys is a Savage Worlds nut),
2) Combat tracker and character sheet look, feel & funtionality.
3) Rolling dice (Seems like a stupid one, I know, but it does add to the feel of "I'm actually sitting at the table")
Cons: 1) No Voip - you have to skype/ ventrillo (sp?), etc.
2) While I've never had any connectivity issues, this might be because all the guys I play with own their own houses. I'm told college campuses have the most issues.
3) "Costly" - I only list this because some people complain... personally, I've blown through more just about any night at a bar then the 1 time cost of the software... and I bought the GM module and ALL the player's licenses.
It also has much to do with your gameplay style. If you are a combat-heavy group, definitely something like Maptools. The battlemap functionality if FGII is passable, but my group is very role-play heavy rather than combat heavy. The map functions get us by, but it's the feeling of roleplaying FGII has enhanced that has garnered our love of the software.

NeoFax |
OK, here is my opinion so let me caveat that with I have very little F2F experience with any RPG let alone zero Pathfinder. I have used quite alot of VTT's, but my poison of choice is MapTools. The major reason is how I make/design my game. I am very anal about having all of my info within the game and not have to look the info up in multiple different references. MapTools accommodates this by having "tokens" you can place on the map with both player and GM info, spells database so I don't have to look up if the duration is level/round or what have you, rules for most of the esoteric ones(skills/CMB/CMD). I also like having the ability to place the character in an environment that is similar to what their token would be facing. i.e. darkness/invisibility/showing whether they have a condition or not However, the other systems are capable of many of these features in one form or fashion, but not all. As for speed vs. F2F, I cannot help with that. Although, I can say that players of mine have stated that using a VTT is much faster than F2F once the player is familiar with the system. For me, I would think my prep time would skyrocket to DM a F2F game and so would my encumberance with all of the books and papers I would need to have at hand. I just can't see me DMing a game around a table VTTless, playing yes.
I would like to add that MapTools also has the capability to take a HeroLab statblock or pdf statblock and turn it into a token. It also has Unicode capability which just recently has become more robust.

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Black Fang wrote:TTopRPG by our very own Pygon. It's a lovely little program, easy to use. I'm using it now to play some PFS.I have to agree with Fang. I've found TTopRPG indispensable for both online and face-to-face games. Pygon is a great guy and is very open to suggestions and comments.
I Second this one! We are running a game today using TTopRPG. It is a great little program that has a very low incline learning curve. We now have 3 people that rotate as GMs, two of whom are good with computers but not experts to any degree. The session setup goes smooth and is quick. I am also implementing light and shadows for this adventure, which adds an element you just can't recreate on a real table.

Mandisa |
As for speed vs. F2F, I cannot help with that. Although, I can say that players of mine have stated that using a VTT is much faster than F2F once the player is familiar with the system. For me, I would think my prep time would skyrocket to DM a F2F game and so would my encumberance with all of the books and papers I would need to have at hand. I just can't see me DMing a game around a table VTTless, playing yes.
Have you ever played/DM'ed with the VTT as an add-on to in-person play? I've never had the space/opportunity to try it, but some folks like it. I've wondered for awhile if it's worth the tech/money/time investment to have the socialization plus technology, so if anyone has a comparison of experience, that would be cool.
Also, how long did it take your group(s) to become familiar with MapTools? I like the system's robustness, but even with the video tutorials, the general lack of built-in help makes it somewhat newb-unfriendly IMO (unless you count the forums, which is 50/50).

NeoFax |
NeoFax wrote:blah blah blahHave you ever played/DM'ed with the VTT as an add-on to in-person play? I've never had the space/opportunity to try it, but some folks like it. I've wondered for awhile if it's worth the tech/money/time investment to have the socialization plus technology, so if anyone has a comparison of experience, that would be cool.
I have never played Pathfinder F2F(except with my kids, so it doesn't really count as they don't truly understand the concept of RP), so cannot comment on this. However, there are plenty of people that do exactly this. I would imagine it brings the best of both worlds. Ability to manually roll dice, interpret people's facial expressions(which sometimes is hard to do with just written text), more immersive RP(think audio, effects and such).
Also, how long did it take your group(s) to become familiar with MapTools? I like the system's robustness, but even with the video tutorials, the general lack of built-in help makes it somewhat newb-unfriendly IMO (unless you count the forums, which is 50/50).
Well, most people I have met online utilizing MapTools have a pretty good grasp of scripting and common UI concepts. So, with a framework designed for your RPG of choice, it shouldn't take long. The only problem with MapTools is finding the extras if you are a power user(plus, you know most geeks don't like to RTFM). So, with that said, it hasn't taken a long time. If you want, I can schedule a one-shot with you and whomever to walk you thru how the system works. Just send me a e-mail at neofax99 <AT> gmail dot com.

Mandisa |
Mandisa wrote:Also, how long did it take your group(s) to become familiar with MapTools? I like the system's robustness, but even with the video tutorials, the general lack of built-in help makes it somewhat newb-unfriendly IMO (unless you count the forums, which is 50/50).Well, most people I have met online utilizing MapTools have a pretty good grasp of scripting and common UI concepts. So, with a framework designed for your RPG of choice, it shouldn't take long. The only problem with MapTools is finding the extras if you are a power user(plus, you know most geeks don't like to RTFM). So, with that said, it hasn't taken a long time. If you want, I can schedule a one-shot with you and whomever to walk you thru how the system works. Just send me a e-mail at neofax99 <AT> gmail dot com.
I guess I've been hoping that the threads/wikis/videos for MapTools, plus necessaries like frameworks & macros, might someday be integrated in a more compact way (like a manual). I think they're working on that simultaneously to maintaining/improving the program, so it's very organic.
I might just take you up on that offer after the holidays. My buddy who mostly DM's online is used to a changing roster of players who already know the system(s), while I'm more used to the actual players in our in-person group. It'd be great to transition the group to a online-sometimes, in-person sometimes hybrid.

Mandisa |
How did you get your groups interested in using VTTs? The guys I play with have no interest and cant be bothered making any effort at all.
Is there a place where they list VTT games that you can join?
Do you ever see Paizo taking a leap into selling campaign sets and modules as files for VTTs?
Can't answer the first question directly, but as to the second - Pen & Paper Games is a good place to find or list in-person & online games (they cross-post with Obsidian Portal, a campaign website aggregator, as well).
On the third point, I'd love to see that kind of thing, but I think it would be logistically difficult - every VTT software has its own system & "language". I believe the Pathfinder SRD is loaded up into HeroLab though, and people have worked on translations/frameworks for PF in various VTT systems. So you could poke around and see if the software you're interested in using already has stuff available.
Personally, I'd love to see RPG companies come up with some kind of standard import/export format that tools could in turn support, but RPG-system flux and piracy concerns tend to put the kibosh on it.

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I would like to recommend D20pro. I like it in comparison to say maptool because you don't need to install a complex framework which you then have to explain to your players. d20 systems are all hard coded combat is seamlessly automated. It can import characters and monsters from Herolab and there is a library file on the D20pro forum with all the pathfinder monsters stats and counters ready to use!

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I'm gonna jump in here with another recommendation for D20Pro. Why?
-Mac and Linux support.
-Intuitive Interface.
-Awesome Combat scripting.
-Effect tracking
-Regular updates and improvements.
-Easy customization within the d20 framework. Adding custom classes is pretty simple.
-It's pretty darned cheap when you get down to it.
Yeah, it's pretty useless for non-d20 games but for PFRPG it is the bomb-diggity.

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<disclaimer>
I'm part of the development team working on the open source Java-based application known as MapTool.
</disclaimer>
The 8th Dwarf wrote:Do you ever see Paizo taking a leap into selling campaign sets and modules as files for VTTs?[...] I'd love to see that kind of thing, but I think it would be logistically difficult - every VTT software has its own system & "language". I believe the Pathfinder SRD is loaded up into HeroLab though, and people have worked on translations/frameworks for PF in various VTT systems. So you could poke around and see if the software you're interested in using already has stuff available.
You may know the name Jonathan Roberts? All of the recent artwork that he's done for Rite Publishing has included MapTool campaign files. That means maps, tokens, vision and light definitions, and so on. All part of the purchase price of the original product. (And he's contributed some free artwork for use in MapTool as well!)
He (and Rite) plan to do more of these. MapTool is nearing it's final release of the 1.3 series and we have people working on written documentation (as an add-on to the screencast tutorials). We have been developing like mad and adding even more features so we've been reluctant to spend a lot of time on documentation until things settle down. We're reaching that point. We do have a wiki that covers the scripting language that is built in to MapTool, but that's not really general user documentation.
MapTool already has features that no one else has: infinite sized maps (up to your memory capacity), a vision system that interacts properly with light sources, a fog-of-war that is "per player" (or rather, "per token"), built in support for UPNP for your router if you want to run a server, the ability to extract the images and textures used in your campaign for uploading to an Internet server so that players don't have to download images from *your machine* at game time (we call these "repositories"), drawing templates to support bursts, lines, and cones in the vein of D&D/PF, and support for user-defined auras (such as Aura of Courage or Magic Circle or Silence -- imagine how nice it would be for the GM to SEE where these areas extend to!).
In fact, we have frameworks for not just D&D3.x/PF, but D&D 4e, ShadowRun, GURPS, WoD/nWoD, and many more. Or maybe you're not into RP games so much? We have frameworks for card games as well, and I once put together a quick backgammon board so my wife and I could play on a flight across the country. :) It wouldn't be difficult to add Parcheesi, Stratego, Chess, Othello, Risk, and almost any board game. Some games (like Axis & Allies) is difficult to do in MapTool 1.3, but we're targeting those issues for MapTool 1.4.
Think of MapTool not as a application that is limited to a particular game or a particular way of playing; think of it as a toolbox full of the tools needed to create what you want. It can help you build the gaming experience you want and you can take it as far as you like or use it strictly as an virtual battlemat. Of course, if you're looking for an end product you can join our forums and probably find someone else who's already built it. After all, what you want other people probably want too, which means it may already have been done.
As we close up development on 1.3 we're making plans for 1.4. And oh boy, is it going to be slick! We've let 1.3 grow by itself for too long. The software industry would say that it has "grown organically". So 1.4 is going to get a rewrite of every user interface window and the more complicated tasks will get "wizards" that will walk you through the steps. We are planning a "headless" mode so if your ISP supports it you'll be able to run a MapTool server on your web server and manage it remotely. Oh, and we're replacing our custom scripting language with JavaScript! We already use HTML for all chat text and user-defined frames and dialogs, but this change will make MapTool more accessible for folks who have been playing with simple web page building and want to translate that experience to MapTool.
Much of the text in MapTool has been translated to German, French, Italian, Spanish, Polish, Russian, Chinese, and Japanese. How many languages have TTopRPG and d20Pro been translated into? And because our menu text and shortcut keys are part of the translation, users can edit and change the shortcuts if they wish! (We'll be adding a UI for this in 1.4 instead of editing a translation file.)
We're currently on 1.3b82 (the "b82" means "build 82") and we should have a final release within the next build or two. Then we start on 1.4. Stop by at RPTools.net and see what we've got. Even if you don't want MapTool, you might like TokenTool -- I use it for creating images for other software as well. Or look around the forums at Forums.RPTools.net.
Good gaming!

TerraZephyr |

I'm looking at running a VTT for a couple of friends as my face to face gaming will have to wait for a while.
My main and almost sole concern is the map function, my 2 players are very tactical players and enjoy that aspect of gaming probably the most.
I want to be able to do 2 different things.
1) I have map images extracted from PDFs (Serpent Skull AP) and I'd like to be able to use the maps that have a grid as a battlemap.
Optional: I've used Dunjinni in the past and enjoyed it but it was too expensive to print out maps, but might like to use that program to make some nice looking maps (again with a grid already printed on the map) and import those as well to use as a battlemap.
2) For random encounters or for those occasions when my players decide to do something unexpected, I'd like to be able to just "sketch out" a simple map. (In real life we use the standard wet/dry erase battlemap for these scenarios and I'd like the ability to replicate that)
So, my question is, which program is best for this. I've tried demos of any of the programs that I could find and frankly I'm overwhelmed with the choices and so far underwhelmed on the ability to match a "pre-gridded" map with the grid of the program's map.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

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I'm looking at running a VTT for a couple of friends as my face to face gaming will have to wait for a while.
My main and almost sole concern is the map function, my 2 players are very tactical players and enjoy that aspect of gaming probably the most.
I want to be able to do 2 different things.
1) I have map images extracted from PDFs (Serpent Skull AP) and I'd like to be able to use the maps that have a grid as a battlemap.
Optional: I've used Dunjinni in the past and enjoyed it but it was too expensive to print out maps, but might like to use that program to make some nice looking maps (again with a grid already printed on the map) and import those as well to use as a battlemap.
2) For random encounters or for those occasions when my players decide to do something unexpected, I'd like to be able to just "sketch out" a simple map. (In real life we use the standard wet/dry erase battlemap for these scenarios and I'd like the ability to replicate that)
So, my question is, which program is best for this. I've tried demos of any of the programs that I could find and frankly I'm overwhelmed with the choices and so far underwhelmed on the ability to match a "pre-gridded" map with the grid of the program's map.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
TTopRPG mentioned above can do both imaged maps and sketched maps. There are some tutorials on the site and if you stop in to the DMTools Chat Room and Pygon is around and not working, he's usually willing to lend a hand and give demos.

TerraZephyr |

I went with Maptools. After I found the XL spreadsheet that helped resize premade maps (it worked great) maptools seemed to have everything that I was looking for (and greater support with more people using it).
However I haven't found a Pathfinder framework (which surprised me). I found a pathfinder toolbar which looks nice but it seems people were using it with either a 3.5 framework or a 4e framework. Is there anyone on here that has found (or made) a pathfinder framework to use?
Thanks