| 4 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
does evasion only protect vs HP damage or any "Reflex for 1/2" damage?
example: Shadow Dragon Breath Weapon, Negative Levels, does an evasion using creature, on a failed save, take all neg levels or no neg levels?
Evasion is unclear in what "Damage".
Evasion (Ex): At 2nd level and higher, a rogue can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If she makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the rogue is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless rogue does not gain the benefit of evasion.
Emphasis mine.
does evasion only protect vs HP damage or any "Reflex for 1/2" damage?
example: Shadow Dragon Breath Weapon, Negative Levels, does an evasion using creature, on a failed save, take all neg levels or no neg levels?
Evasion is unclear in what "Damage".
Damage refers to hit point damage. When ability damage is being referenced it will be called out as such.
As an example,the cure light spell says:
When laying your hand upon a living creature, you channel positive energy that cures 1d8 points of damage +1 point per caster level.
You notice it never says hit point damage, but that is what it means.
"Damage" generally refers to hit point damage. But as a GM, I'd be lenient and allow Evasion to apply to all "save for 1/2" effects.
Evasion (Ex): At 2nd level and higher, a rogue can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If she makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the rogue is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless rogue does not gain the benefit of evasion.Emphasis mine.
I know the book quote but is "Damage" any "Negative" effect or only HP or ability damage.
I know the book quote but is "Damage" any "Negative" effect or only HP or ability damage.Evasion (Ex): At 2nd level and higher, a rogue can avoid even magical and unusual attacks with great agility. If she makes a successful Reflex saving throw against an attack that normally deals half damage on a successful save, she instead takes no damage. Evasion can be used only if the rogue is wearing light armor or no armor. A helpless rogue does not gain the benefit of evasion.Emphasis mine.
It is hp only.
Uhmm, it may be covered by the 3.5 FAQ, iirc it applied to any kind of damage that was halved by a Reflex Save.
I have a copy of the 3.5 FAQ. It does not say it includes anything that is halved by a reflex save.
Isn't the save for negative levels a Fortitude Save? If so then Evasion doesn't even apply. Stalwart for the Inquisitor would though which is basically evasion for Fort and Will saves.
Pag 179 of the Core Rulebook speaks about damage, is about confusing.
"Damage reduces a target’s current hit points."
Then puts Ability Damage in the same Damage Section.
Ability damage is a specific type of damage. That is why I said if something refers to ability damage it will be specifically called out, and I went on to list the cure light spell as an example.
It is a couple of posts up.
Pag 179 of the Core Rulebook speaks about damage, is about confusing.
"Damage reduces a target’s current hit points."
Then puts Ability Damage in the same Damage Section.Ability damage is a specific type of damage. That is why I said if something refers to ability damage it will be specifically called out, and I went on to list the cure light spell as an example.
It is a couple of posts up.That's the confusing thing.
If it's a type of X, it should benefit from anything that applies to X unless otherwise stated, which isn't the case. Just saying that the language used leads to some confusion.
There are other aspects that are not better. You will get used to it.
Ability damage is still damage. Proof: it's doubled on a critical hit.
If you were attacked with something that gave you X ability damage, but allowed a Reflex save to halve that ability damage, Evasion and Improved Evasion would function against it.
Ability damage is still damage. Proof: it's doubled on a critical hit.
If you were attacked with something that gave you X ability damage, but allowed a Reflex save to halve that ability damage, Evasion and Improved Evasion would function against it.
I am going to have to disagree. That wording of the cure X spells support my interpretation. Of course me hitting the FAQ button will get an eventual answer.
The rules also specifically say ability damage is doubled.
The rules also specifically say ability damage is doubled.
The rules specifically say hit point damage is doubled (trebled, quadrupled, etc), too; what's your point? I rather believe that supports my stance more than yours. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and is named "something duck", it's probably a duck.
I am going to have to disagree. That wording of the cure X spells support my interpretation. Of course me hitting the FAQ button will get an eventual answer.
The rules also specifically say ability damage is doubled.CLW is a Will save for half, not a Ref save, so that doesn't apply anyway.
Are there any effects that are a Ref save for half that do not simply do HP damage?
I was talking about for healing purposes.
The rules specifically say hit point damage is doubled (trebled, quadrupled, etc), too; what's your point? I rather believe that supports my stance more than yours. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and is named "something duck", it's probably a duck.
The problem is that there are places where "damage" clearly does not refer to ability damage, for example:
Damage reduces a target's current hit points.
And there are places where it does (e.g. critical hits, as you point out above). So all you can do is go by context.
The rules also specifically say ability damage is doubled.The rules specifically say hit point damage is doubled (trebled, quadrupled, etc), too; what's your point? I rather believe that supports my stance more than yours. If it looks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and is named "something duck", it's probably a duck.
So how do you differentiate between when they mean one or the other in cases where it is not spelled out?
You can't apply a situation where one thing is called out to another where it is not. I also don't consider ability damage and hit point damage the same thing so the duck analogy does not work.Damage generally refers to hit point damage.
DamageIf your attack succeeds, you deal damage. The type of weapon used determines the amount of damage you deal.
Damage reduces a target's current hit points.
The only reason spells can crit on ability damage is because it is called out that they can.
edit:ninja'd
Damage reduces a target's current hit points.
And yet, elsewhere in the PRD, it states:
Diseases, poisons, spells, and other abilities can all deal damage directly to your ability scores.
The rules explicitly state that ability damage is dealing damage to ability scores.
The quote you and wraithstrike refer to is specifically talking about weapons, which only deal hit point damage anyway.
Damage reduces a target's current hit points.And yet, elsewhere in the PRD, it states:
Diseases, poisons, spells, and other abilities can all deal damage directly to your ability scores.The rules explicitly state that ability damage is dealing damage to ability scores.
The quote you and wraithstrike refer to is specifically talking about weapons, which only deal hit point damage anyway.
Damage without any modifiers(words such as ability in front) refers to hit point damage. If not then the book needs a lot of editing work.
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Personally I think the arguement about the definition of damage is unecessary. Evsaion is based on reflex saves. If it requires a reflex save for 1/2 damage or what have you, it should work. your not resisting the effect, your avoiding it.'Cause your a ninja like that.
Think cinematic, which is what a lot of game effects are based on, its the guy that dives behind the wall in the nick of time.
just my 2cp
Personally I think the arguement about the definition of damage is unecessary. Evsaion is based on reflex saves. If it requires a reflex save for 1/2 damage or what have you, it should work. your not resisting the effect, your avoiding it.'Cause your a ninja like that.
Think cinematic, which is what a lot of game effects are based on, its the guy that dives behind the wall in the nick of time.
just my 2cp
I see your point, and if I can avoid a fireball I should be able to avoid a cloud of "give me your ability score" that depends on reflex, but the game ignores reality in favor of balance. I don't think it is really unbalanced in this case, but it is one of those things, along with the word "level" that should have been fixed.
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I agree it prolly should have been fixed. I've been playing since 1st edition and A LOT of things in the rules have always been ambiguous. As a DM I found myself just rolling with what works and makes the group happy. Having never played RPGA or Pathfinder society games I dont quite get the need for everything to be perfect in the RAW. However I do find many of the discussions on the boards to be interesting and sometimes entertaining.8D