Ross,
Can you move this thread to a more public place than the Serpent Skull sub-forum. I have been banned by the DM from coming here, except that he sent me a link to this specific thread. I would like to follow and comment but would like to do so as part of my normal forum browsing rather than a specific link. Also, it really is bigger than just Serpent Skull.
Perhaps to:
Paizo / Messageboards / Paizo Publishing / Pathfinder® / Pathfinder Adventure Paths / General Discussion
thanks for considering.
-- david
Papa.DRB
I can understand people's frustration at what they feel is Paizo forcing them to buy more book so they can play the APs. Having bought these books myself, though, I cannot help but hope that APG, GMG and Bestiary 2 material will appear in upcoming modules and APs. I noticed it started happening recently and was quite happy about it. But if it means duplicating whole Bestiary 2 entries, I start wondering why I bought the Bestiary 2 (apart for the beautiful art)… So I'd be in favor of just referencing the hardcovers and leaving more space for the module's or the AP's material (especially with the PRD available for free).
Maybe listing a quick replacement for non-core material is indeed a good middle ground?
Ross,
Can you move this thread to a more public place than the Serpent Skull sub-forum. I have been banned by the DM from coming here, except that he sent me a link to this specific thread. I would like to follow and comment but would like to do so as part of my normal forum browsing rather than a specific link. Also, it really is bigger than just Serpent Skull.
Perhaps to:
Paizo / Messageboards / Paizo Publishing / Pathfinder® / Pathfinder Adventure Paths / General Discussion
thanks for considering.
-- david
Papa.DRB
Dude seriously banned by your GM? I can't say I would ever let a GM have that much control of my life.
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My two cents:
There is a lot of great stuff in the APG, Bestiary 2 etc and I would certainly hope and expect Paizo to include some of this in future products. One of the things that REALLY annoyed me during the WOTC 3.5 splat book explosion was that those books seemed to be pretty much ‘publish and forget’.
I understand that there are some people without printers, or that do not own a book etc ...
BUT
The reality is these are not the norm. Most people (not all, but certainly MOST) playing the Pathfinder RPG will have the main hardback rule books, will at least have access to a printer and/or access to the net.
I just don't see a problem with putting a monster from the Bestiary 2 in an adventure, or giving an AP adversary a spell from the APG (just as an example) and simply printing "see the Bestiary 2" or "see the APG". It actually seems like the best approach to me.
So, my vote is: use content from these books when it makes sense / do not waste space by reprinting all the content in the module or AP - just tell the player and/or GM to refer to the appropriate book.
Silly Americancentric* question here.
Any of our UK contingent able to help Diana out? Sounds like she could use a bigger group. :-)
Diana, do your kids visit the boards? You talked about 'hooked for life' just wonder if they know of/can follow RPG superstar. (or even already entered)
Again, thank you for your input on the boards here, make yourself comfortable.
*** spoiler omitted **
There's a thread for introducing yourself to other UK members here
Well it is only fair, since I banned him and my other four players from the Legacy of Fire and King Maker sub-forums! (lol)
However, banned is perhaps too strong a word, maybe it is better put, "don't read them unless you want the adventure to be completely spoiled".
Since I haven't been a player since the early 1990's, I would rather be completely surprised and *not* know what is going on, so, for me, it is better to not take the chance on even going into the sub-forum, because I am also curious as a cat, and sure as heck would look at the other threads. I've picked up some little things just be being exposed in the regular forums, and don't want to know more...
-- david
Papa.DRB
Dude seriously banned by your GM? I can't say I would ever let a GM have that much control of my life.
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diana ratcliffe - first welcome to the boards. Second have you considered seeing if any of your kids friends would be interested in maybe a set monthly game? I mean you could still run what you are doing now whenever, but then maybe have a set monthly game. The reason i ask is you might be able to get their friends involved then, which would help with balancing. Since all the adventures are written with 4 characters in mind.
A friend of mine runs a game for his daughter once a month and her friends. She is 8 right now and right now he is running Grimm Tales for them. When they get a bit older he plans to introduce them to other games. Anyways just thought I would bring it up and ask. It is cool that you play with your kids though, hopefully it lasts. I know when i was a teen the last thing I wanted to do was stay home with my parents. :)
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There's a thread for introducing yourself to other UK members here
Diana, definitely check out this thread. There are *lots* of us in the uk, and my comments above about copying the odd stat block in shops definitely holds true. Not to mention free 'net access in the local Library ;)
Failing that, there are a surprising amount of game shops we can point you at for such a small country. Last but not least, Waterstones carry a good amount of the Paizo line.
:D
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diana ratcliffe - first welcome to the boards. Second have you considered seeing if any of your kids friends would be interested in maybe a set monthly game? I mean you could still run what you are doing now whenever, but then maybe have a set monthly game. The reason i ask is you might be able to get their friends involved then, which would help with balancing. Since all the adventures are written with 4 characters in mind.
A friend of mine runs a game for his daughter once a month and her friends. She is 8 right now and right now he is running Grimm Tales for them. When they get a bit older he plans to introduce them to other games. Anyways just thought I would bring it up and ask. It is cool that you play with your kids though, hopefully it lasts. I know when i was a teen the last thing I wanted to do was stay home with my parents. :)
My 16 year old son had played in a weekly game with me for well over a year - it's fantastic!
There's a thread for introducing yourself to other UK members hereDiana, definitely check out this thread. There are *lots* of us in the uk, and my comments above about copying the odd stat block in shops definitely holds true. Not to mention free 'net access in the local Library ;)
Failing that, there are a surprising amount of game shops we can point you at for such a small country. Last but not least, Waterstones carry a good amount of the Paizo line.
:D
Thanks, will do
Ross,
Can you move this thread to a more public place than the Serpent Skull sub-forum. I have been banned by the DM from coming here, except that he sent me a link to this specific thread. I would like to follow and comment but would like to do so as part of my normal forum browsing rather than a specific link. Also, it really is bigger than just Serpent Skull.
Perhaps to:
Paizo / Messageboards / Paizo Publishing / Pathfinder® / Pathfinder Adventure Paths / General Discussion
thanks for considering.
-- david
Papa.DRB
I've moved the thread, since you are correct, it has outgrown specifically referring to Serpent's Skull.
If you have a specific message for the web team, you can also send an email to webmaster@paizo.com.
diana ratcliffe - first welcome to the boards. Second have you considered seeing if any of your kids friends would be interested in maybe a set monthly game? I mean you could still run what you are doing now whenever, but then maybe have a set monthly game. The reason i ask is you might be able to get their friends involved then, which would help with balancing. Since all the adventures are written with 4 characters in mind.
A friend of mine runs a game for his daughter once a month and her friends. She is 8 right now and right now he is running Grimm Tales for them. When they get a bit older he plans to introduce them to other games. Anyways just thought I would bring it up and ask. It is cool that you play with your kids though, hopefully it lasts. I know when i was a teen the last thing I wanted to do was stay home with my parents. :)
I'm fairly happy with what I run and when and they each run two characters pretty well (pairs of siblings). Its less 'too few chars' and more 'remember they don't have anyone with high BAB and HPs' (eg. Dire wolf bite damage is scary). And the players are both nicely paranoid, despite the fact I can't remember the last time I succeeded in inflicting damage on anyone. Actually, I do. I attacked them with 2 necrophidi(i?) but had picked up the giant spider card by mistake and inflicted the wrong poison damage. Which would have been OK except it was going to be the same poison damage when they met the spiders. Who never bit them anyway, so it didn't matter after all.
I don't actually want to commit myself to a set time, as RL too often happens. I want to get better at having done enough prep and being organised that I can grab moments when otherwise we're getting bored.
I also removed another handful of posts, for the same reason. I don't want this thread to turn into a flamewar, so that we can actually get useful feedback out of it.
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Responding to the OP -
For the APG and other player-friendly products, I like the page numbers and books for reference - also, include a reference to the website.
One thing you may do for those who only have the core and aren't willing or able for whatever reason to use/understand the new material, is to include a short suggestion of a core class/level/ability (domain, school, type of fighting style, etc) that could used by the GM to make an alternate stat block. I'm not saying put everything, just a one or two line suggestion of how to make the NPC using the core rulebook.
As for the Bestiary 2, I think the stat blocks are needed. Alternatively, you could suggest a substitute creature from the Bestiary.
This way, your core assumption stays to just the Core Rulebook and the Bestiary. It also pleases the fanbois and other folks who buy all the books.
Creative Director
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This way, your core assumption stays to just the Core Rulebook and the Bestiary. It also pleases the fanbois and other folks who buy all the books.
Might just be me... but the term "fanboy" or "fanboi" really grates on me. Especially since the folks who buy all the books are the ones who help me pay my rent. ESPECIALLY since, if I didn't work at Paizo, I'd absolutely be one of those folks who buys all the books.
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And adding a list of monster links and other content links to each product page that links that content to the PRD is an interesting idea... but it's not something we'd have time to do, I am afraid.
Strikes me as a great project for a fan site, though, or barring that, a simple messageboard post in one of the GM Advice threads for each adventure. After all, one of the many reasons we decided to make the rules of the game so open was to enable all of the gamers of the world to HELP us make this game better.
1. I think it needs to be on the Paizo site somewhere. (Again, I think Paizo should set up a single web page with links to the PRD for its products, and reference that instead of the PRD itself in the AP. It probably wouldn't hurt to link to the product page either, as it may drive a few sales.)
2. I'll put my time where my mouth is, and volunteer to do APs #41 and #42, at the least.
3. If the peanut gallery has a collective suggestion to the best place to post, great. Otherwise I'll take James's suggestion and post a GM advice thread in the appropriate product discussion.
I know this won't solve everybody's issues, but it should at least be a time save for those with internet connections, whether they want to save bringing the books, or don't have the books at all. (And credit to Paizo for making all of its rules and stat blocks available for free.)
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Great points on both sides of the issue.
As someone who is also chronically unorganized, let me say that it does get better with familiarity. When you know better where to look and what you're looking for. It sounds like you have the makings of a good GM.
I think the point brought up about not knowing what you need by reading the product description is a good one. Hopefully it will be included for PDF only customers at least. Maybe even for blurbs on amazon and other sites.
I'd rather you not include APG elements without reprinting them. If you do, the APG is, in every sense that matters, "core."
If I can't pick up and play a Pathfinder AP (Paizo's flagship product!) with the *core* rulebook and the bestiary...how is that not the very definition of rules bloat?
No need for the shouting. :(
You do - correctly - point out that this is a slippery slope. I am not sure that I woudl be willing to label the APG as "rule's bloat" yet. (... but that is mostly a matter of degree.)
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This way, your core assumption stays to just the Core Rulebook and the Bestiary. It also pleases the fanbois and other folks who buy all the books.Might just be me... but the term "fanboy" or "fanboi" really grates on me. Especially since the folks who buy all the books are the ones who help me pay my rent. ESPECIALLY since, if I didn't work at Paizo, I'd absolutely be one of those folks who buys all the books.
LOL, my local FLGS is called "Fanboy 3"... I'm guessing a lot of us are quite proud of our fanboy (or Fangirl) status ;)
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LOL, my local FLGS is called "Fanboy 3"... I'm guessing a lot of us are quite proud of our fanboy (or Fangirl) status ;)This way, your core assumption stays to just the Core Rulebook and the Bestiary. It also pleases the fanbois and other folks who buy all the books.Might just be me... but the term "fanboy" or "fanboi" really grates on me. Especially since the folks who buy all the books are the ones who help me pay my rent. ESPECIALLY since, if I didn't work at Paizo, I'd absolutely be one of those folks who buys all the books.
Equally proud of a possibly questionable taste in 80s boy bands? ;-)
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<compleatly confused> need links....LOL, my local FLGS is called "Fanboy 3"... I'm guessing a lot of us are quite proud of our fanboy (or Fangirl) status ;)Equally proud of a possibly questionable taste in 80s boy bands? ;-)
The mighty Funboy 3
...(eg. Dire wolf bite damage is scary). ..
That's for 3.5 (bite +11, for d8+10), obviously, that I've not used in play.
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This way, your core assumption stays to just the Core Rulebook and the Bestiary. It also pleases the fanbois and other folks who buy all the books.Might just be me... but the term "fanboy" or "fanboi" really grates on me. Especially since the folks who buy all the books are the ones who help me pay my rent. ESPECIALLY since, if I didn't work at Paizo, I'd absolutely be one of those folks who buys all the books.
I didn't mean to offend, as I am engaged to a Paizo Superscriber and get giddy when the stuff arrives.
I haven't been in the gaming world a long time, and fanboy is a word I've picked up to describe huge fans.
Apparently I have misunderstood the true meaning of the word. I guess I should stop calling myself one, now...