You mortals and your trivial morals and sexual orientations are so weird.
And trivial.
That, we think, is the comforting part: In a couple of million years, an aeon on the outside, you'll be gone again (sooner if we get real hungry and go on a sun-eating-spree again), and we'll listen to some jumped-up cockroaches reprimanding each other for discriminating headless ones or hating each other because someone thinks antennae are attractive.
>Cloud of bubbles< Mr. Fishy Blue Ninja!
Shifty who are you talking to? Mr. Fishy is here.
Was just adding further comment to your dismay at the boneheads who gave a hard time to a gay player.
I find some guys funny.
Its ok to have a male friend sleep at your house.
It's ok to hug a male friend when your team wins at sport.
It's ok to be naked and share a communal shower block with a mate - ie in the changerooms after the sport.
It's ok to get drunk with your male friends.
BUT
It's apparently NOT ok to get drunk with your mate, hug naked in the shower, and then have him stay the night at your place.
What? Umm, Shifty...check the name next to the Fishy, GRU is Mr. Fishy's "good" twin.
Mr. Fishy doesn't care is a fellow player is gay. Mr. Fishy plays in a game in which one player is infact, gay. Mr. Fishy curses and mocks him just like everyone else at the table including the DM.
I'm with you Fishy, I don't care if someone is gay - and I'm shocked that it would be a problem at anyones table.
Geez it surprsises me every time I hear of closed minded roleplayers :(
One of few games I've left, I left during character creation...
...you can play WHATEVER YOU WANT, just as long as (increasingly huge list of exceptions...
Ah, the Henry Ford school of Character Creation.
"You can have whatever color you like, so long as it's black."
As a player, I've walked away from one game, and was seriously close to walking away from another.
The first was a Realms game, and there were two main problems. Problem 1 was a player that the DM introduced from another group of his, who in real life has the charisma of a lizard (character's stats aside). Problem 2 was that the DM had a major crush on one of the players. Now, she was a fine roleplayer, so overall, that wasn't too big a problem. BUT, the game eventually simply started to revolve around her and her quests... and this one "side" quest (or what we thought was going to be a side quest) for the character turned into the whole driving motivation of the campaign. (It doesn't help that she's also really... really... really... slow and deliberate in doing anything. So what could've been resolved in a month turned into a year long thing.)
This coupled with the annoying player, who for some reason decided to create each and every one of his characters as an antagonist to mine (I was playing a Paladin of Torm wielding a greatsword... so his first character was a greatsword wielding fighter trying to prove he was "better" than me. He died quickly. His second character was a worshiper of Bane. He, too, died after six or so sessions. His final character was an archer, who had no personality except 'grating'. Not a direct antagonist to my character outside of whatever hate/resentment still remained from his previous characters, but still.) It ultimately became way too much for me to bare, so I told the DM "Look, I'm not having fun", so this next fight I'm just going to sacrifice myself for the party and that'll be the last of me.
The second game was being DMed by the really annoying player. It was his first shot DMing. Started off relatively well. Then he threw a fight against a dozen zombies, half dozen ghouls, and a couple of ghasts at us. As 2nd level characters (and no cleric). In a single combat, not even spaced out among different rooms. He nearly TPKed the party - I and one other PC survived with some NPC intervention. Then once we got the replacement PCs and we set off into the wilderness we ran into a purple worm. As 3rd level characters. Someone died right off before we realized this was his ham-fisted attempt to railroad us into his "plot" (which we were attempting to follow, but he continually kept distracting us from by giving us additional complications.) Anyhow we spent an entire session running away from the purple worm (because regardless of how far we outran the thing, it kept popping up). And that led us into what had to have been the world's largest and most contested dungeon, with a dungeon with a goblin area, an orc area, and a troglodyte area, each of the three tribes fighting against each other. And we somehow had to maneuver through this area WHILE STILL BEING CHASED BY THE PURPLE WORM.
I told my friend that I was one session away from quitting, when the DM chased us into a room - again with the purple worm - containing 90some odd sleeping troglodytes. And this is a party with no stealth capability, and several members of the party having a 20 foot armored speed and a negative bonus to their Stealth checks naturally. Needless to say, someone failed their stealth check, we weren't able to kill the awakening troglodytes quick enough to avoid setting off an alarm, and died promptly thereafter. I sent a friend of mine a picture of that room that just shows dozens and dozens of troglodyte tokens surrounding our quickly dwindling party, titled "the death of unfun." For funsies, my friend did manage to have his character run away from the rising sea of troglodytes, down the only exit we managed to find in the room - only to run into a locked door at the end. So the both of us decided that the DM had simply designed that room to kill us all anyway.
Was just adding further comment to your dismay at the boneheads who gave a hard time to a gay player.
I find some guys funny.
Its ok to have a male friend sleep at your house.
It's ok to hug a male friend when your team wins at sport.
It's ok to be naked and share a communal shower block with a mate - ie in the changerooms after the sport.
It's ok to get drunk with your male friends.BUT
It's apparently NOT ok to get drunk with your mate, hug naked in the shower, and then have him stay the night at your place.
It's like that Batman film, where the Joker does deadly make-up. The stuff was only dangerous in combination.
Same here: Some activities are okay by themselves, but should not be combined.
The world is full of examples of this:
Well...all of my characters are assumed to be gay anyway (much like most straight players are assumed to have straight characters unless otherwise noted.)
I wouldn't play with my group if they had a problem with that.
I played a gay character recently. Nobody in the party found out.
It's great how some people care for details about their fellow players' characters beyond how good they are in a fight...
Then again, they also got a verbatim description of another character of mine when they were asking someone what the killer looked like, and nobody made the connection until my character met the witness and the witness pointed at him and said "that's him" (possession's such great fun :))
Nine pages in, and my favorite part of this thread is still:
Me: Are you pissing with the door open?!
Droid: Dude... it's just D&DWhat a great punchline.
"...So I say, 'What the hell are you doing staring at a picture of my girlfriend's grandmother with your pants around your ankles?' At which point he shrugs and says, 'Dude. It's just D&D.' "
"...So once we've rescued Fluffy from the pool, I shout, 'Don't you dare touch my cat again!' And he gets this hurt, confused look on his face and says, 'Dude. It's just D&D.' "
"...So the Dateline reporter says, 'If you weren't planning on doing anything inappropriate, why did you show up with beer and condoms?' To which the guy replies, 'Dude. It's just D&D.' "
I think that was Genghis Khan's excuse, too.
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Disgusting. One of the few times I wholeheartedly advocate not just leaving a group, but punching...I once joined a game-store game after hearing about how awesome the DM was, and how his stories were always epic and tailored to the party. I had been in a crappy group for 6 months at the time, only holding out because I liked the people I was playing with, so I decided to have my go at it.
I had been in contact with the GM through a couple emails and built a character using his personal rules. It all seemed really solid, and he had a great grasp on the game. When I showed up that session he acted really odd after I introduced myself- in fact, the whole group did. I sat down with my human Bard (3.5e), and waited for 3 hours for the DM to introduce me. Finally, the party enters a tavern where my character is performing, and the DM sort of vaguely mentions me. My character, wanting nothing more than a life of adventure and having no skill to do it alone, approaches the PCs and proclaims them the most valiant people to enter the town in decades. The conversation goes something like this:
Me: I can tell from your equipment that the lot of you are mighty adventurers, roaming the countryside and defeating the evils of the land.
Party: ...
Me: If you allow me to accompany you I will tell your deeds, and sing your names to the heavens.
Human Ranger: Sorry, I don't like your kind.
Me: ...minstrels?
Human Ranger: No, your kind.
Me: (Now out of character) Dude, we're both human.
Human Ranger's Player: (Also out of Character) No, he doesn't like gay people.
Me: But my character isn't gay.
Human Ranger's Player: But you are, right?
Me: Yeah, but so what?This continued for a few minutes, while the rest of the table agreed that I couldn't successfully roleplay a straight character and that I should either play a woman or accept that my character is gay. When I looked to the DM, he only responded "he's just playing his character."
So I grabbed my books and left.
Nah. Why punch him when you could give him a full frontal kiss on the lips before leaving.
Jerk.
I hope karma got his arse. Hard.
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Bah! A proper GM will not listen to something like this. He'll be too busy saying stuff like: "You know, promises of certain... activities later will take my minds of arbitrarily torturing certain characters which may or may not resemble YOUR character...." ;-PThe thing that upsets me is when the DM is trying to avoid favortism toward their significant other, and his/her significant other makes "joking" comments about how their character had better not die/fail a save/miss.
Bad form.
My wife tried to do the whole "my character better not die..." followed with bribes of marital activities after the game, which soon resorted to threats of lack of marital activities...
I shut her down each time. There was a collective "Oh, Snap!" from around the table. :)
+1
I'm meaner to my wife than I am to the other players.
But she gets it. I can't show favoritism otherwise it will ruin the game.
During a particularly dry spell for local gaming my friend, his girlfriend and myself answered an ad from a store's gaming board looking for new players for a 3.0 game. We meet at the store and are instructed to make 15th level characters while the original party continues to play. While we're number crunching I hear warning bell #1 as a pc asks the gm what he'll get for shooting the monster they were facing in the privates. The GM thinks this is hilarious and offers some ridiculous XP amount. As the game goes on, I come to realize that most of the other PCs are weird -tauroid templated creatures and part time prostitutes. Thankfully, before any more of the torrid game details come to light, two of the other players begin dumping pixie sticks into 2 liter soda bottles and chugging them, again for XP wagers from the GM. One chugger then runs to the gamestore's restroom and messily projectile vomits on the wall. The store owner comes back and says "I told you guys last time if this happened again..."
We got up and never looked back.
...are instructed to make 15th level characters
Thats usually the end of the conversation for me right there.
I have a player who walks away from our games on a fairly regular basis. Our group only gets to play about once a month due to various RL concerns, so every now and then he sends out an email telling us how much he enjoys the games but he just can't commit to a game that isn't played more often. Then he offers to start a new campaign that he insists will be played more frequently and we all pledge to do our best to be there and sign aboard. He then runs two adventures in it and drops it to go back to my game. Lather-rinse-repeat.
Fortunately we've all been playing together for over 20 years and are all good friends, and while this is pretty dad-burned annoying, we just let it ride. I'm the primary DM (and always have been)and ironically I'm the one who cancels or reschedules the games more often than anyone in the group. I suffer from major depression and social anxiety disorder, and sometimes no matter how much I've planned or looked forward to a game, my emotional state dictates my ability to function. I have to consider my own well-being, because I know that when these "melancholy provations" come upon me the games will suffer and no one will have a good time. One of the players has a 2 hour drive to get here, and I certainly don't want him to waste his time.
So I don't really have a good "walking away" story to share, but some of these have been doozies and most of them I can completely see why the persons left the table. I almost walked from a game at GenCon a few years ago because the DM who was debuting the Eberron setting didn't know his a$$ from his elbow when it came to 3.5 rules and had to go from table to table to ask other DMs questions during the game, but I stuck it out. Thank goodness for pharmaceutical fortification!
So I don't really have a good "walking away" story to share, but some of these have been doozies and most of them I can completely see why the persons left the table. I almost walked from a game at GenCon a few years ago because the DM who was debuting the Eberron setting didn't know his a$$ from his elbow when it came to 3.5 rules and had to go from table to table to ask other DMs questions during the game, but I stuck it out. Thank goodness for pharmaceutical fortification!
That's why I'm so glad I have my anti-anxiety medication LOL.
With the nuts I run for, I need it.
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I have a new story just happened today. I was all set to join a Pathfinder group. They had theirs first game last weekend. Only to be told that the DM has too many players and my services were no longer required so to speak. Which while annoying and frustrating happens. Except not only did the DM ignore all my emails asking for an update. Not only did I have to find out not from the DM but from another player. His email tones was to the effect of @#$% happens too bad it did not work out. Apparently the DM already having a 5 player group decided to allow in another 2 people. So much for a DMs word and having a spot saved at the table.
I have a new story just happened today. I was all set to join a Pathfinder group. They had theirs first game last weekend. Only to be told that the DM has too many players and my services were no longer required so to speak. Which while annoying and frustrating happens. Except not only did the DM ignore all my emails asking for an update. Not only did I have to find out not from the DM but from another player. His email tones was to the effect of @#$% happens too bad it did not work out. Apparently the DM already having a 5 player group decided to allow in another 2 people. So much for a DMs word and having a spot saved at the table.
That sucks.
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That sucks.
Pretty much. Like I'm supposed to sympathize with the DM because he was dumb enough to take on too many players. I could be more understanding if the it was a novice Dm but the guy has been playing and running games for a very long time. It came down to the DM picking a guy that was brought on board by one of the older members at the table and I got screwed over. Lesson learned excpet I am not playing with that group every again. Do I like rpgs yes not that much.
I once made that mistake and ended up with ten players ... I sucked it up and ran for them all, getting another player to do 'assistant DM' duties as well ... it worked, if only just. Some of the players voluntarily withdrew in the end, and formed their own group.
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I was like, what level was this guy?
"Oh, he's the captain of the guard, he's 18th level".
18th level. Just walking around town. In a world where there's probably only like 40 18th level people period, one of them is a guard, working in a medium sized city, he has a sex dungeon, and he's enamored of torturing and raping people TO DEATH.
You aren't a real roleplayer unless you have been confronted by the lurid machinations of a sex starved/crazed GM and experienced his Rape-Dungeon fantasies AT LEAST once.
That reminds me of a lot of games in teenager land, when I was there. Thing is, everyone was playing like that and it was never enough to make us walk, we just ran with it and slowly improved, played less favourites, got less competitive and role-played better - it's just how we learned, although granted some faster than others.
Yeah, but that doesn't make me feel any better about getting gang raped by bards (of all things). :p
You aren't a real roleplayer unless you have been confronted by the lurid machinations of a sex starved/crazed GM and experienced his Rape-Dungeon fantasies AT LEAST once.
That really conjured some mental images I'd rather not entertain ...
...are instructed to make 15th level charactersThats usually the end of the conversation for me right there.
I agree wholeheartedly. I can barely make a 1st level character let along 15th. But at that point the unfolding campaign was a trainwreck we couldn't look away from.
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Yeah, but that doesn't make me feel any better about getting gang raped by bards (of all things). :p
You aren't a real roleplayer unless you have been confronted by the lurid machinations of a sex starved/crazed GM and experienced his Rape-Dungeon fantasies AT LEAST once.
...bards do have a reputation for being rather randy...
Note to self: next char is "Randy the Bard".
Yeah, but that doesn't make me feel any better about getting gang raped by bards ....Look at it this way: At least you had a soundtrack.
This one made my wife fall over with laughter.
You mortals and your trivial morals and sexual orientations are so weird.
And trivial.
That, we think, is the comforting part: In a couple of million years, an aeon on the outside, you'll be gone again (sooner if we get real hungry and go on a sun-eating-spree again), and we'll listen to some jumped-up cockroaches reprimanding each other for discriminating headless ones or hating each other because someone thinks antennae are attractive.
Aaaand this one made me fall over laughing.
Yeah, but that doesn't make me feel any better about getting gang raped by bards ....Look at it this way: At least you had a soundtrack.
Cue porno music... a funky jive chorus.
I agree wholeheartedly. I can barely make a 1st level character let along 15th. But at that point the unfolding campaign was a trainwreck we couldn't look away from....are instructed to make 15th level charactersThats usually the end of the conversation for me right there.
Are you a new player?
I ask because, called shots and pixie sticks aside, I'd jump at the chance to play a 15th level game. I've played so many 1st level goons, and so few characters above 4th level, that the mere statement of "write up a 1st level character" makes me sigh lengthily and reply "alright, give me ten minutes."
I ask because, called shots and pixie sticks aside, I'd jump at the chance to play a 15th level game.
I'm all good with the notion of a L15 Game, but with the caveat that we built up to it. I wouldn't suggest starting from L1, as frankly I've never SEEN an L1 game end anywhere NEAR 15, but there's no way I'd think starting much above 10 would be 'a good thing'.
I tend to find peoples campaigns that kick off or are focussed on that level tend to be REALLY REALLY cheesy and suck very hard.
Post level 10 it takes a very good GM with good resources for it to be anything more than just a bashfest.
Sorry, I'd be happy to be contradicted, but Ive been at this game a long time, met a lot of players, been in loads of different peoples campaigns, and been to endless number of cons and collected my bits of wood to prove it - but I've only seen the (very very) rare exception.
I'm all good with the notion of a L15 Game, but with the caveat that we built up to it. I wouldn't suggest starting from L1, as frankly I've never SEEN an L1 game end anywhere NEAR 15, but there's no way I'd think starting much above 10 would be 'a good thing'.
I ask because, called shots and pixie sticks aside, I'd jump at the chance to play a 15th level game.
Point taken, with regards to earlier editions. I've been spoiled by 4e, which is only a little less balanced and a little more complex above 10th. :)
Yeah I've been at it so long we used to play during our break from building the pyramids. 1st Ed, and particularly 2nd Ed got pretty wild in those upper levels, and similarly I'm going to suggest PF could be a bit the same.
Old advancement tables (1st & 2nd ed) were designed with slow progress in mind, so much so that a campaign kicking off at L1 could take years of gaming (even on a frequent basis) to get up to post 10.
The only time I've really seen it done was playing through the various modules in order ie the old Slavers/Giants/Drow/Queen of Demonweb or mods like ToEE etc.
In high school, I joined a group where the other players and DM were one grade higher than I was. At first, we played only during lunch hour, but then I found out that the rest of them were also playing during class. Since I wasn't in their classes, of course, they took over my character. That was the FIRST straw.
The last was when I walked into a session and the DM immediately announced to me "Your character died. He volunteered to taste an unidentified potion, and it was poison."
I ask because, called shots and pixie sticks aside, I'd jump at the chance to play a 15th level game.I'm all good with the notion of a L15 Game, but with the caveat that we built up to it. I wouldn't suggest starting from L1, as frankly I've never SEEN an L1 game end anywhere NEAR 15, but there's no way I'd think starting much above 10 would be 'a good thing'.
I tend to find peoples campaigns that kick off or are focussed on that level tend to be REALLY REALLY cheesy and suck very hard.
Post level 10 it takes a very good GM with good resources for it to be anything more than just a bashfest.
Sorry, I'd be happy to be contradicted, but Ive been at this game a long time, met a lot of players, been in loads of different peoples campaigns, and been to endless number of cons and collected my bits of wood to prove it - but I've only seen the (very very) rare exception.
I'm willing to agree that games that start at high levels are rarely good, but how do you know that was the case?
I once told a player to roll up a 22 level character when he joined my game. The reason was that we had been playing every week for 8+ hours each week for about 2 years. Everyone was into epic levels. His character was actually the lowest level there.
If you are joining a game that isn't a new one the GM has the choice between starting you off at low level and watching you struggle or starting you off where everyone esle is.
Fair enough Admiral, but generally speaking, a campaign at this point (even run well) is probably at its twilight stages, and a new entrant will probably only have an 'extra' type role as the main guys finish their arcs and the stuff they have been doing over a long time.
So coming in with loads of power, yet no backstory or reason for being is likely only going to jar the others or leave you hanging around with lots of thumb twiddle time... and thats IF the campaign is being done well.
So personally, I am cautious about the use of my discretionary time and would probably opt out, unless I was convinced otherwise by a strong lead story, and a strong GM who had the right cuts.
At worst its a juvenile asshat session with neckbeardy types having a superman and Cheetos fantasy. Which I reckon is what was going on for that other poster.
Anyhow, its MY final (first and last) straw, but your mileage might vary.
I wouldn't insinutae for a moment that you are having 'wrong badfun', just that I would need convincing on the day.
At worst its a juvenile asshat session with neckbeardy types having a superman and Cheetos fantasy.
Well, aside from juvenile asshats, what's wrong with a Superman and Cheetara fantasy?
Oh wait, you said Cheetos.
Never mind!
Fair enough Admiral, but generally speaking, a campaign at this point (even run well) is probably at its twilight stages, and a new entrant will probably only have an 'extra' type role as the main guys finish their arcs and the stuff they have been doing over a long time.
So coming in with loads of power, yet no backstory or reason for being is likely only going to jar the others or leave you hanging around with lots of thumb twiddle time... and thats IF the campaign is being done well.
So personally, I am cautious about the use of my discretionary time and would probably opt out, unless I was convinced otherwise by a strong lead story, and a strong GM who had the right cuts.
At worst its a juvenile asshat session with neckbeardy types having a superman and Cheetos fantasy. Which I reckon is what was going on for that other poster.
Anyhow, its MY final (first and last) straw, but your mileage might vary.
I wouldn't insinutae for a moment that you are having 'wrong badfun', just that I would need convincing on the day.
Fair enough as well. I will admit that that player did have trouble with their first character for exactly the reasons you specified (with the exception that the game was not in it's twilight, it went on for a good while still). Then he dropped that character for one he had played to very high level in another campaign and system, we worked out a translation that was the appropriete power level and a good reason for her to be there. The character added quite a lot to the game.
I DEFINATELY agree with what you suggested was going on for the other poster. I wouldn't have joined that game either. And for the record I do prefer to start the game at low level.
I've joined pre-existing campaigns at high levels (including an Age of Worms campaign) and sometimes it works well, sometimes it doesn't. In my experience, it depends entirely on the DM and the group.
Either way though, making a 15th or 16th level character is a lot of work, particularly if you're intending to fit him into an existing campaign. Picking out the magic items alone is a real bear and for that alone I prefer to start at under level 10.
On a tangent, I'm fascinated to see that so far NO ONE has defended the Duskblade class - it's borked and we all know it :PThere's nothing to defend - Duskblade is a fine class with relatively few problems and it's incredibly well balanced. People who disagree are objectively wrong.I disagree here. While the Duskblade isn't wildly broken, it's definitely got too much to recommend it over core-only methods of doing the same thing. It's hard to justify a straight fighter over this guy, for instance, so if that's how your group rolls, the Duskblade is probably too strong.
He's not genre shaking or anything. But your statement that he's "incredibly well balanced" and that it's just a fact, is incorrect. He would shine like crazy in the party I'm playing in, for instance, which features a monk, a fighter, and a fighter/rogue as the primary damage dealers. Is a superoptimized party, he wouldn't really shine much at all, however. So saying he's balanced depends on a lot.
All you've really done here is proven that the PHB is hilariously unbalanced and that core martial characters are terrible :p
Duskblade is balanced. He's hard to screw up (One of the easiest to screw up is frankly the Fighter, not casters). He adapts himself perfectly to what he's meant to do, and he succeeds at it, and doesn't tread on other peoples' toes. The duskblade will never beat the rogue at skills, it will never cast like the wizard, etc, etc. Certainly it's better then the core fighter and monk, but then what isn't?
The Duskblade was essentially a damage whore that stabbed you in the face magically.
That was it.
Aaaand this one made me fall over laughing.You mortals and your trivial morals and sexual orientations are so weird.
And trivial.
That, we think, is the comforting part: In a couple of million years, an aeon on the outside, you'll be gone again (sooner if we get real hungry and go on a sun-eating-spree again), and we'll listen to some jumped-up cockroaches reprimanding each other for discriminating headless ones or hating each other because someone thinks antennae are attractive.
That's good, is it? We always get this laughing and crying stuff confused. It's not helping that sometimes you brief mortals do both at once.
I'm all good with the notion of a L15 Game, but with the caveat that we built up to it. I wouldn't suggest starting from L1, as frankly I've never SEEN an L1 game end anywhere NEAR 15, but there's no way I'd think starting much above 10 would be 'a good thing'.
Maybe this game has been running a long time and they were late joiners? That would mean they'd start at level 15 or something similar. You don't want to joining a level 15 party as 1st-level characters.
And, for the record, I've seen some games that started at 1 and ended at 15 or beyond. The highest was 1 all the way up to 30 (well, okay, we skipped a 3 levels or so between 21 and 24 or something like that) And that game was beyond awesome.