Guys, I think it's time to let it go. Everyone back to their corners until happy hour? I'll buy the lager.
Eventually we invaded a ruin used as a home base by a (different) group of thieves.
"There's a ten foot square alcove off of the hallway"
Three of us searched it, and one lit off a flask of oil and ignited it in the area. We turned away...
"Three thieves leap out of the alcove and backstab you!"
We argued that one for a while... It seems the DM felt that "if you can just find people by looking for them, it completely nerfs the abilities of the thief class!"
Now THAT'S hiding in plain sight. XD
invented strawman arguments
When the best you can do to argue your case is to make up a pile of sensationalist hype and misrepresentation and fanciful stories to fuel your subsequent pre-manufactured moral outrage it only seres to illustrate to us ones rather dingy character.
There's clearly little point debating with you because you may as well just sit there saying 'potato' in response to anything you dislike, believing if you say it long and loud enough with significant passion that it will make it 'the right answer'.
Have you houseruled out all the 'Hold' and incapacitating spells in your game too? Those are FAR more deadly, yet those are 'ok'?
Guys, I think it's time to let it go. Everyone back to their corners until happy hour? I'll buy the lager.
Capital idea I do say!
Have you houseruled out all the 'Hold' and incapacitating spells in your game too? Those are FAR more deadly, yet those are 'ok'?
I see why you are accusing me of strawman - you are obviously try to distract from all your blatant strawmen. Like:
"Oh hi, you don't disagree with my arbitrary decision that any random thing I say is, by RAW, 'putting some one at your mercy?' Then obviously you disagree with all the other rules in the game that are written plainly and obviously!"It's like you don't even understand the meaning of the word houserule. Though given the fact you are defining "Anything I say" as RAW, it's not exactly unbelievable.
By your logic, someone being executed on the chopping block should have the executioner make a separate attack roll and apply base damage each round, or you should get a grapple check against the noose.I also feel to need to point out how hilarious this line is, because, yeah, that's how it worked.
This. Just check the records at the Tower of London. People used to pay the executioner to do a good job so their death would be quick. Alternatively, some DID try and fight or run, and it wasn't unknown for the headsman to have to try to chop away with several attempts to get the head off.
It's really really hard to hold someone 'helpless' if they are still conscious. Not impossible, but very difficult. Grappled and pinned do not equate to helpless, period. If they did, it would be listed in the description.
It's like you don't even understand the meaning of the word houserule. Though given the fact you are defining "Anything I say" as RAW, it's not exactly unbelievable.
Which part of RULES AS WRITTEN, are you struggling with?
It's written, in the rulebook, which makes it RAW.
Please provide another half dozen fallacious 'examples' of over exaggerated and trivialised strawman arguments, they were funny.
It's like you don't even understand the meaning of the word houserule. Though given the fact you are defining "Anything I say" as RAW, it's not exactly unbelievable.Which part of RULES AS WRITTEN, are you struggling with?
It's written, in the rulebook, which makes it RAW.
Please provide another half dozen fallacious 'examples' of over exaggerated and trivialised strawman arguments, they were funny.
Sorry dude, but it is not RAW.
RAW says you can only coup-de-grace someone who is helpless.
There are many conditioned like grappled, pinned, prone etc. that are debilitating but are NOT listed as helpless. Therefore, in these conditions you are not helpless, end of RAW - anything else is house-rule.
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So it's covered - you are in a precarious position of having blade to throat, completely vulnerable to the captor. I'm not arguing HOW you got there, we are dealing with the fact that you ARE there.
Except you're not completely vulnerable. You can move away from the blade, attempt to grab it, etc. So like Dabbler pointed out, you're not Helpless, and cannot be coup-de-graced.
This. Just check the records at the Tower of London. People used to pay the executioner to do a good job so their death would be quick.
Well this may be borne out by people making their SAVE on the first coup de grace attempt. Remember even if people do get you into the correct position etc, and perform the action in those idealised circumstance, the damage dealt is still (relatively) limited, and the victim IS entitled a saving throw.
Its not a one shot guaranteed kill by any means, far easier to simply cast hold or the like and then kill with certainty than to coerce a victim into placing themselves completely in harms way which may result in unpredictable outcomes moments later.
Except you're not completely vulnerable. You can move away from the blade, attempt to grab it, etc. So like Dabbler pointed out, you're not Helpless, and cannot be coup-de-graced.
I have given several examples of how it would be quite feasible to escape from said scenario; from creating a distraction through to intervention.
We are assuming you are pretty much stuck with blade to throat though, so once you start moving so does the captor - if you just try and rip free you will almost certainly take a hit - and if lucky you make a save and all is gravy... if unlucky you take a mortal wound in the exchange.If you don't just try and 'rip free', but instead think tactically, you open a raft of options that move the captor off guard, allowing you a much better chance to escape.
This is why we get skills like bluff, and abilities like saving throws, and HP to avoid just falling over dead. Wholistic views of the RAW are important for this reason.
Its not a one shot guaranteed kill by any means, far easier to simply cast hold or the like and then kill with certainty than to coerce a victim into placing themselves completely in harms way which may result in unpredictable outcomes moments later.
Indeed. But a grab with one hand and a knife to the throat? I know some people that if you pull that one on them, the only place the knife will go is into the wielder. Grabbed is not helpless, pinned is not helpless. Nor is blinded, flat-footed or any other condition that does not explicitly say you are, in fact, helpless.
I think you should all clam down.
No need for such shark words.
This unnecessary flaming is just you being shellfish
take a break and clam down and your comments will be more constructive by a huge marlin in no time
;)
Seriously guys, its not that serious
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We are assuming you are pretty much stuck with blade to throat though, so once you start moving so does the captor - if you just try and rip free you will almost certainly take a hit - and if lucky you make a save and all is gravy... if unlucky you take a mortal wound in the exchange.
But this is not a RAW application of the Helpless and coup-de-grace rules.
I know some people that if you pull that one on them, the only place the knife will go is into the wielder. Grabbed is not helpless, pinned is not helpless. Nor is blinded, flat-footed or any other condition that does not explicitly say you are, in fact, helpless.
I know people like that too, and also some that are very very good at delivering blows with superb precision.
If you have ended up being placed 'completely at the opponents mercy' then you have been either completely careless (fell asleep, got too drunk) of follhardy brave (volunteered to be there).
How would YOU resolve a knife slash to the throat?
I'm very very curious as to how you would resolve this most classic "I have you now" move of both real world and fantasy staple.
At what point is the victim just totally snookered?
Are you suggesting that its flat out impossible 100% to cut a players throat in the 'blade to throat' scenario (or do anything other than base damage - laughable to anyone past 1st level really)
But this is not a RAW application of the Helpless and coup-de-grace rules.
See above.
I reckon if the player says "Yes I go along with Duke Dunderhead as he places the blade to my throat" then they have accpeted the Helpless condition. If they said "as he moves in I make a break for it" thats time for grapples and grabs and some possible stab attempts.
I personally would houserule it to be a coup-de-grace. :)
...and the player would have to be either REALLY sloppy, or REALLY self sacrificing to be in the position in the first place :p
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I personally would houserule it to be a coup-de-grace. :)...and the player would have to be either REALLY sloppy, or REALLY self sacrificing to be in the position in the first place :p
Or been beaten unconscious. :) I agree, it is not likely to come up all that often.
I've considered Green Ronin's 'Bushwhack' option for my games, but I don't want to make my games a war of stealthing to insta-gank the enemy.
It's like you don't even understand the meaning of the word houserule. Though given the fact you are defining "Anything I say" as RAW, it's not exactly unbelievable.Which part of RULES AS WRITTEN, are you struggling with?
RAW I'm fine with. It's RASS that I have problem with.
How would YOU resolve a knife slash to the throat?
I don't. It's not a rule. Anywhere.
I've considered Green Ronin's 'Bushwhack' option for my games, but I don't want to make my games a war of stealthing to insta-gank the enemy.
Yeah I like the 'gritty realism' of it, but its not terribly sporting really, and takes away from stylised play (to some detriment).
I know some people that if you pull that one on them, the only place the knife will go is into the wielder. Grabbed is not helpless, pinned is not helpless. Nor is blinded, flat-footed or any other condition that does not explicitly say you are, in fact, helpless.I know people like that too, and also some that are very very good at delivering blows with superb precision.
If you have ended up being placed 'completely at the opponents mercy' then you have been either completely careless (fell asleep, got too drunk) of follhardy brave (volunteered to be there).
How would YOU resolve a knife slash to the throat?
I'm very very curious as to how you would resolve this most classic "I have you now" move of both real world and fantasy staple.
At what point is the victim just totally snookered?
Are you suggesting that its flat out impossible 100% to cut a players throat in the 'blade to throat' scenario (or do anything other than base damage - laughable to anyone past 1st level really)
I personally as a person or as a DM?
Personally jerk the head back into the face (shock, surprise, more space between blade and throat to work with), grab the crook of the elbow and the wrist and rotate the forearm away from my neck before stepping around with the attackers opening arm and apply a figure-of-four lock and drop them on their ass with a dislocated shoulder or worse. Would I get hurt? Possibly, but as my instructor once said: "if you are fighting someone with a knife and they know anything about what they are doing, you will get cut - just try not to let it be anywhere serious."
As a DM, it's a grapple and pin: they grapple, attempt to apply the pinned condition and then use Intimidate to cow you into not resisting. I would give the Intimidate a +4 modifier for each of the use of a weapon and the application of the pinned condition. Because they are pinned if you do use the weapon you automatically do sneak attack damage if you have any, and the hit is virtually automatic with a -4 to their flat-footed AC from the pin. Usually the intimidate attempt is alongside a held action to deliver the blow if you do try and resist, so avoiding it will be hard.
can you guys make a thread about it or drop it its irrelevant to what is being talked about in this thread. Please stop hijacking the thread!!!!
can you guys make a thread about it or drop it its irrelevant to what is being talked about in this thread. Please stop hijacking the thread!!!!
Well I think we have moved on now; most of us are back to our deckchairs and popcorn and eagerly awaiting the next galling tale of GM Fiats running over players.
So far my fave was the one asking for players to roll a table to see breast size, and 'weapon size' for males.
I've personally only ended one game while I was a DM, I had one player who slept till combat and another who rules lawyer-ed and made characters to purposely start in and out of game fights, and I had a 3rd player who just sucked at the game. So I canceled the game and called two of the players and told them they could come back for the new game I was starting.
During the AD&D 2E era, in college, my roomies and I wrapped up a homebrew campaign due to TPK. We started a new game with the Dragonlance setting. It was just after the War of the Lance and a small party gets thrown together to tackle a renegade Solamnic Knight. We make it to 3rd level, with one Half-Elf Paladin making it to 4th level.
The DM, having bought a ton of stuff with Christmas cash comes to us and asks if anyone is interested in a Ravenloft campaign? We all decline, as we all have no interest in Ravenloft. Oh, ok, guys. How about a Fifth Age game? As we are all students, we just don't have the time.
Next game session, he breaks out the Ravenloft/Dragonlance cross-over module where your party gets sucked into Lord Soth's castle. Now, the weird thing is that the party had went to sleep in Qualenesti and we woke up in front of Soth's castle! If you guys remember the module in question, it was designed for much higher level parties, so as we try to find a way out our first encounter is with multiple (!) undead including a banshee! Everyone died multiple times so that most of us wandered out at second level and with reduced Constitutions (losing 1 Con every time you were res'ed). The rewards were ridiculous because as a higher level module, the fighter was now swinging a Longsword +3 at 3rd level!
On top of those headaches, the DM let his best friend get away with murder as a kender since they were both big kender fans. I caught the kender (who was a thief-mage when halflings were not allowed to be mages) stealing my spellbooks. In the ensuing fight, my Magic Missile fizzles and all of my attacks miss by DM fiat. Apparently, he's protected by the gods even though we are Ravenloft where we can't get a Cure Light Wounds.
But we still roll with it. Until we finally get out of the damn castle to find that we are now in the future and the Fifth Age has occurred. All the gods are gone! Sorry! All the plotlines we were trying to resolve are now moot. So that was the last straw. My character committed suicide by dousing himself and his spellbook with oil and lighting himself on fire.
The next day, I started DMing a Forgotten Realms campaign that lasted for several years.
So far my fave was the one asking for players to roll a table to see breast size, and 'weapon size' for males.
O_o
I would ask if you were playing Fatal, except that if you answer 'no' then I have to deal with the fact that the world spawned another such monstrosity, and then I'll know what SAN loss feels like ...
I had one player who slept till combat
We had one like that - it was actually better than having him awake at the table flicking dice WAITING for the combat :p His resolve cracked first though, and he left the group.
O_oI would ask if you were playing Fatal, except that if you answer 'no' then I have to deal with the fact that the world spawned another such monstrosity, and then I'll know what SAN loss feels like ...
This was linked by another person, so I'm not taking credit - but the tale is so woefull that it seriously needs to be read. Get a coffee and a comfy chair, its a long and horrible epic - whats better is the GM had his rebuttal at the end...!
Oh that one <grin> read that before.
Oh that one <grin> read that before.
Its (almost) unbelievable.
I have a worst GM story that is also unbelievable - but I would have to name names to provide proof, which I dont know is allowed. It was just fruity, as the GM lost touch with reality (ie where the game stopped) and things unfolded in bad ways ending in a significant prison sentence.
It's epic. And way too trippy.
'When ShadowRun gets for r34l!'.
Stole 1400 Credit Card numbers on his own RL ShadowRun.
Stole 1400 Credit Card numbers on his own RL ShadowRun.
Clearly, his first mistake was playing Shadowrun. Had he cut his teeth on Cyberpunk, he'd have never gotten caught, and would have set up his best friend - who he'd secretly harbored a Walter John Williams-esque, Machiavellian hatred against for over 20 years, due to a stolen girlfriend and a bad match of tetherball in elementary school - for the fall. Thus, he'd have gotten away and been able to read about the entire thing on the WSJ whilst sipping champagne on a LEO shuttle to the Crystal Palace.
...
Speaking of Shadowrun.
Once again, we set the Wayback Machine, this time for SR 1st Edition.
I am playing Corinth, a Netrun... er, Decker with very little in the way of Cyberware, a desire to be left alone, and an armored refrige... er, single-occupant bunker under his bed. My friends are playing Sol...er, Street Samurai, and Riggers, and other techie, street-savvy, combat-oriented types, because the GM has told us he will run us on a "magic light, gritty, low-street level game."
We have exactly one magic-using contact. Note, I said "contact." Not "character."
We are on our way to meet him. On foot. Because we are too poor to afford our own vehicles. Our gunmen have enough ammo for two reloads of their weapons, our Rigger has all the necessary links, but no actual toys to play with, and I... Well, I was smart and spent my money on my deck, my fridge, my armored jacket, and my very trusty Ares brand pump action shotgun - Shop smart, shop... oh, you know the rest.
On our way to meet our Contact, we get surrounded by long, full-length black armored limousines. On a busy, bustling street that is suddenly stone ghost-town empty.
Out of these limos pour literally THREE DOZEN people, huge Trolls, several Orks, a handful of Elves, and one Dwarf.
All of them, every last one of them, is bristling with magic. They're protected by visible spell shields, they have magic auras about them, you name it, they've got it.
Some sort of miracle happens and we (who do not have a single whit of magical protection about us) do not get instantly cremated in the opening round. In fact, we manage to route the bulk of their forces, and figure out that the Dwarf is their leader. I manage to get initiative over him, and duck and weave my way around the growing pile of twisted wreckage that is the various rickshaws, personal cars, and detritus of Future San Francisco, and get around behind him.
Whereupon, on my action, I proceed to unload Bessy Bluesteel into his back, more or less emptying the entire shotgun into his chunky little Dwarf hide. He falls to the ground. Quoth The GM:
"You turn him into chunky salsa."
Satisfied with my assumed victory, I sling Bessy over my shoulder and turn to the rest of the fight, figuring I'll have to reload but I should be able to use the "Holy crap, the scrawny Human nerd just took out our boss!" factor to avoid getting pasted for the round of actions it will take me to do so... right? Right?
No such luck.
The GM smiles as the action counter ticks over to the Dwarfs action.
"He gets back up, conjures up a ball of flame, and throws it at you."
Point blank range. A full empty of a shotgun into his spine, a really AMAZING damage roll, and the GM himself mentioning Pace Picante Sauce, and the Dwarf gets. Back. Up.
You see, when I asked "Okay, seriously, how's THAT possible?" the answer was "Well, you only got enough successes on your damage roll to knock him down and stun him. He had a penalty to hit you, but he did so anyway."
Because of this, Corinth lies burnt to a cinder, I'm now down my very first (and second to last) Shadowrun character, and our party gets TPK'ed in the first session of the game, because the one guy who had a chance to take out the Dwarf (Who as it turns out was the Big Bad for the entire game, and was some kind of ridiculously powerful Mage archetype... in a low magic game, remember) was MY character, who is now... let's go back over it... IS NOW DEAD.
Later on, the GM says to us "Man, you guys weren't supposed to get killed in that fight! You were supposed to run!"
Yes, because boxing us in and literally surrounding us and giving us no visible avenue of escape is a great way to tell us to run. Not, say "Oh, you have to fight your way out of this!"
First session, TPK in the first two hours of the game.
I got up and left the game, and the next week I started a Cyberpunk 2013 game for those of the group who didn't feel like "trying Tim's Shadowrun game again, with magic this time."
Clearly, his first mistake was playing Shadowrun. Had he cut his teeth on Cyberpunk, he'd have never gotten caught, and would have set up his best friend - who he'd secretly harbored a Walter John Williams-esque, Machiavellian hatred against for over 20 years, due to a stolen girlfriend and a bad match of tetherball in elementary school - for the fall. Thus, he'd have gotten away and been able to read about the entire thing on the WSJ whilst sipping champagne on a LEO shuttle to the Crystal Palace.
...
Ya know, I still remember what all that means :p
Funnily enough he started with Cyberpunk and the old Friday Night Firefight before moving to Shadowrun.
It was all new to me as I was coming across from fantasy gaming and had no idea, I am pretty sure it was 1st Ed, anyhow the first module he ran was "Mercurial", which wasn't too bad.
It all went bad not long after.
Your story almost makes me weep!
Anyhow, how I miss SR and Cyberpunk games. What Id give for a decent MMO of either (as no one seems to play the RPG's anymore)
Removed some older posts. Please keep in mind that we do aim for a PG-13 rating on these boards.
Removed some older posts. Please keep in mind that we do aim for a PG-13 rating on these boards.
Taking PG-13 to allowable limits is a subtle art form with a demanding tipping point. (Regrettably no... there was no saucy, encoded message in that last sentence. That would have been clever though, eh?)
I just want to go on the record as saying that I finally mustered up the courage to download the TOME rules mentioned way the heck back on Page 2.
I got exactly four paragraphs into the "Races" section before deleting the PDF from my hard drive and looking for bleach with which to scrub clean my frontal lobes.
I'm all for houseruling away things in RAW that don't make sense for the purpose of the game being played at the time (case in point my Star Wars Saga adaptations), but writing a game resource from the first person, using slang and vernacular and basically turning the entire thing into a trash-talk-the-professionals session is just too much.
People play this? Really?
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O_oI would ask if you were playing Fatal, except that if you answer 'no' then I have to deal with the fact that the world spawned another such monstrosity, and then I'll know what SAN loss feels like ...
This was linked by another person, so I'm not taking credit - but the tale is so woefull that it seriously needs to be read. Get a coffee and a comfy chair, its a long and horrible epic - whats better is the GM had his rebuttal at the end...!
Just finished reading this and all I can say is WOW...The part on the hot dog especially grossed me out. I wonder at times if the story was exaggerated to garner more attention, but I am sure there are people like that out there. I just don't want think about it...too late!
'When ShadowRun gets for r34l!'
Ah, Shadowrun, 2e, where my physical adept kicked the ass of anyone making disparaging comments about monks ... I remember those days well.
I think you should all clam down.
No need for such shark words.
This unnecessary flaming is just you being shellfish
take a break and clam down and your comments will be more constructive by a huge marlin in no time;)
Seriously guys, its not that serious
AAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
No, seriously, I just now came back to this thread and saw how my gaming horror story launched a flame war, and this was the nicest response I could hope for as a rebuttal.
Anywho, I don't recall the specifics of how the rogue in Stewart's game managed to get a knife to his throat. I do recall that a scuffle ensued on a hilltop (the Dancing Maidens from "The Matchmakers" in Dungeon 22, for the record).
I think the rogue and his accoster fell down the hillside during the combat, and at the end of it, the rogue's character was like, "So what happens with me and the other guy?"
And then Stewart says, "You're dead. Sorry. He was too close and he slit your throat."
Judging by the response of everyone at the table who WASN'T named Stewart, I don't think any sort of rules intervention would have helped the rogue. So all the argument over when you can coup de grace someone in this thread would probably just be throwing pearls to swine, had you tried to tell any of that to the GM in question. :)
Judging by the response of everyone at the table who WASN'T named Stewart, I don't think any sort of rules intervention would have helped the rogue. So all the argument over when you can coup de grace someone in this thread would probably just be throwing pearls to swine, had you tried to tell any of that to the GM in question. :)
<coup de grace on the flame war>
Just finished reading this and all I can say is WOW...The part on the hot dog especially grossed me out. I wonder at times if the story was exaggerated to garner more attention, but I am sure there are people like that out there. I just don't want think about it...too late!
O_oI would ask if you were playing Fatal, except that if you answer 'no' then I have to deal with the fact that the world spawned another such monstrosity, and then I'll know what SAN loss feels like ...
This was linked by another person, so I'm not taking credit - but the tale is so woefull that it seriously needs to be read. Get a coffee and a comfy chair, its a long and horrible epic - whats better is the GM had his rebuttal at the end...!
I just finished reading it, as well. Holy hell, that is truly frightening. In the comments some people said the DM reminded them of the comic book guy from the Simpsons. Having grown up in Eugene my self, I can say without exaggeration that the comic book guy is based on the owners of a certain comic book/gaming store there. In fact, when I read the story, all I could think of was one of the owners. Not the fictional Comic Book Guy, but the real thing. Even more frightening to have a mental image from RL to go with the horror of the story.
On topic, I'm glad to say I've been blessed with great gaming groups most of my life, so I have nothing to really add to the growing list of "worst ever"s here. Please keep them coming, though. It's nice to be reminded of my good fortune.
I think the rogue and his accoster fell down the hillside during the combat, and at the end of it, the rogue's character was like, "So what happens with me and the other guy?"
And then Stewart says, "You're dead. Sorry. He was too close and he slit your throat."
Well first of all let me give you some thanks:
Thanks for sharing the tale of woe with us, it was certainly a high for epic fail GM's
Thanks for placing the seeds of an excellent yet colorful debate (I wouldn't go so far as flame war!)
Thanks for coming back and clarifying what a tool your GM really was, and how it ACTUALLY went down...
And in closing let me just confirm - lacking any of the possible set-ups described in our various arguments, your GM was...a Douche. Period :)
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This is the only game I can recall walking out of.
I was on the phone talking to a friend after this happened, to blow off steam. I sent him the emails for reference. Then he started reading the DMs email in the Comic Shop Guy's voice and it just clicked.
That's sensational... the GM needs to really sit down and think it all through.
This is the only game I can recall walking out of.I was on the phone talking to a friend after this happened, to blow off steam. I sent him the emails for reference. Then he started reading the DMs email in the Comic Shop Guy's voice and it just clicked.
I was wondering what ever happened to the group.
This was a play-by-post game some 6 years ago. The group that me, my wife, and my sister-in-law belonged to had broken up a year or so before, and we, along with SIL's new boyfriend (who had never played) wanted to get something going again. My wife and I had recently had a baby so we couldn't really go out much. A PBP was starting up at a site I visited with a group of people who had all gamed on another site before. I convinced the other three to join the PBP with me so we could game without having to go anywhere or arrange care for a newborn.
Strike 1: The DM tells us he only games with original edition AD&D. Okay I can roll with this since I started playing in '85, and still have all my old books. My wife and SIL have never gamed with first edition though and will have to learn. Then we learn that the DM does all character creation himself using 3d6 in order. So I end up with a cleric with a 12 wisdom (his best stat). None of the four of us have a character with good stats. Meanwhile, some of the DM's cronies have 17's and 18's and no stat lower than 14. I try to take this as a roleplaying opportunity, but it's still kind of cheesy.
Strike 2: You begin in an inn. Oh jeez, hasn't this one been done to death? Chaos ensues as 12 people try to meet up, but the DM doesn't provide any direction. He literally has nothing in mind. After much flailing about (this going on for several days in real time) it is proposed that we head off to the east toward a dangerous mountain someone had heard about. Eventually most of the group joins the quest, except for one of the DM's cronies who didn't want to join and decided to stay in the inn, necessitating a separate "adventure" PBP for him.
Strike 3, you're out: So we all (almost all) start off to the east. My SIL, a fighter, had used a lot of her starting cash to add a horse, as she was trying to roleplay a mounted warrior (with the RP that she and the horse had grown up together). Soon after we leave the inn we're attacked by a group of kobolds (that didn't surprise us). The DM rules that my SIL's horse bolts because of the horrible monsters. Okay, fine. We take part in the combat, eventually beating the kobolds. My SIL goes to look for her horse. "It doesn't come back to you, and you can't locate any tracks after an hour of searching," says the DM.
Uh...okay. A horse that tore off in a rush doesn't leave any tracks. My SIL (who again, is playing a fighter) states that she is ignoring the obvious issue of finding tracks and asks why a horse who grew up around battle with her suddenly freaks and bolts, never to return. Another player posts that it is a riding horse and not a war horse, to which the DM essentially says, "Well duh".
A nice little argument ensues between my SIL and the DM (including some discussion about search and rescue horses) until he comes up with this gem: "Sorry, but no. There is a reason why riding horses are cheap compared to war horses. Roleplaying is good, but not when it is used as an excuse to circumvent the rules."
(My thought here: what rules...he just made up that the horse left and didn't come back)
My SIL responds with: "It's really not my fault that you don't know enough about horses to know that there are differences among how horses are trained and that the two levels of horses available for purchase don't cover all the bases - or hell, any of them other than "war" and "fragile flower riding near a pond". I'm so f***ing sick of control freaks. You know, when I was a DM and I led people who knew way more about reptiles than I did, I listened to them and didn't dismiss 'em with a "because I said so". But hey, that's me, right?"
To which he responds: "Good for you. Did you let them cheat, too?"
It just descended from there. Ultimately the four of us left the PBP and a few months later started up a campaign that has been running ever since, as well as adding a few more players.
The recurring theme here seems to be lack of respect from the GM to the players: GM's who railroad plots, GM's who over-control, GM's who play favorites.I also find it strange that the DM is always the bad guy.
I very very rarely walk away from a gaming group in no small part because I usually get roped into DMing.
However I have last strawed on a couple players;
1: I have a clear and present house rule that if you don't show for a game, another player of your choice will take over the running of your PC in situations where I can't have you out, shopping. For instance in the middle of a Githyanki Redoubt. Player literally in the middle of the gaming store threw a fit because his Paladin had entered a fight. "I would have stayed back and guarded our last campsite!" BS... your a Paladin, you go forth and slay that which is evil in the world. Such is your code... can't help it that it happened to get your injured (not killed injured).
2: Had a player insult another player out of game, at the table. They nearly came to blows. I spoke to both players aside and asked them to leave, I told the instigator he wasn't welcome back.
So it isn't ALWAYS the DM...
So, I meet a new group to try a 3.5 game. rock on, I always like seeing someone else's game. I get a couple concepts in mind and head off.
Arrive at the house and it seems everyone's there and pretty into things. Lots of talk about fun previous games, good RP, etc.
Then we go to character making. We have:
1: The fighter. Who is using some splatbook race that is essentially a cat person. Has a big sword.
2: The spirit shaman. DM's son. Makes up a lot of numbers (has an attack higher than the fighter? really?). Also has a HUGE number of goofy abilities for a first level character.
3: The monk. Super-optimized for sacred fist. You know, this guy I don't actually have an issue with. Rock on monk. Rock on.
I see where this is aiming and figure I'll add onto the cheese. I make an elf warlock who's going to be a bit of an arrogant fop. Then the game starts. Every PC, EVERY one of them, talks in a ridiculous faux-intimidating growl whenever they're IC. Constantly. I shrug, roll with it, and go into my arrogant fop/party face (hey, i have a charisma score!) character. Blank looks from PCs, GM seems into it.
First combat rolls up. Cheese occurs. 5 orcs get butchered by our group handily. I use my shatter invocation to break a falchion one's carrying, and suddenly the game STOPS. Everyone wants to look at my sheet and declare my dude high god-king of all cheese. This is after the cat dude murdered 2 guys in a round (at level 1) and the spirit shaman demonstrated his cheese to utter combat invulnerability tactic. Ruling is warlock gets spells/day (so...a sorceror with no spell list?) or I can go for a new dude.
Ok, so new character. Whatever. I decide to just roll with what's being given to me. I make orczilla. Orc barbarian with monkey grip and an oversized greataxe. Pure min-max absurdity. No useful skills for the party. Just a walking murder machine with anger management issues. Totally built to eventually be a frenzied berserker and eventually TPK the group on a bad will save.
Party loves him...
I've been there, I hate double-standard cheese. More often than not, the players who call me a power-gamer/min-maxer are more guilty of it than I am. In my current game, for example, we were about 4th level:
Player: I made this cool class from this book I found(3pp), I'm immune to poison, my blood is actually poison, I never have to sleep, I can summon a Fiendish Large scorpion mount, have a full BAB progression, and can already cast Blackguard spells!
Me: (Duskblade 3, Wizard 1) I can Arcane Channel the spell Shocking Grasp into my melee attack.
Player: OMGWTF!!!! Dude, that is SOO BROKEN!!!! U R such a powergamer!!! I'd never allow that if I ran a game!!!!!
Me: >:|