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Can you rephrase your answer in the form of a question? Seriously :)
The new rule says 1 and 1 doesn't matter which order. So again where is the question?
Play #43 1st time, get 1 XP. GM #43 1st time get 1 XP. Any other (re)play or rerun is for no additional credit for #43, it's out of love.
Now with the new rule, GM #45 1st time get 1 XP. Play #45 1st time, get 1 XP. Any other (re)play or rerun is for no additional credit for #45, it's out of love.
Huh What? You are just confusing my question even More.
OK
Here are the rules before,
To get credit for a scenario more then once you would have to Either
- Played it with one character then GMed it and put the credit on another character of a different faction.
or
- Played it with one character then get into the Rare Replay with another character of a different Faction.
Before Once you GMed you could not get credit again even with Replay.
Now
- GMs can still get credit for Playing and GMing but the order no longer matters, But The old rule of Not being able to play a scenario more then once unless you are using replay has not changed, so even if you want to get Player Credit the first time after GMing I see nothing that changes the rule that you have to use the replay rule to play it again. You can't just hop into a game that you GMed, and get credit, unless it falls under the replay rule. Unless they change that, which they have not yet.
- Replay seems to now give you no credit once you have gotten player credit, but a GM using replay can get his Player credit since he has not gotten his player credit yet.
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That is exactly what needs to be clarrified in the 3.1 document.
I see what you are saying Drgonmoon, and I agree with that approach, but that is clearly not the intent as explained by Venture-Captain Mark.
I understand what Mark is saying and I am fine with that (although it is a free replay) but we need to make it clear. The way I read the statement by Mark, I can GM, then play it for additional credit (New PC). My playing it would not have to be under the replay rule.
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That is exactly what needs to be clarrified in the 3.1 document.
I see what you are saying Drgonmoon, and I agree with that approach, but that is clearly not the intent as explained by Venture-Captain Mark.
I understand what Mark is saying and I am fine with that (although it is a free replay) but we need to make it clear. The way I read the statement by Mark, I can GM, then play it for additional credit (New PC). My playing it would not have to be under the replay rule.
But it does not say that any where... If that was the intent, they need to say that!
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But it does not say that any where... If that was the intent, they need to say that!That is exactly what needs to be clarrified in the 3.1 document.
I see what you are saying Drgonmoon, and I agree with that approach, but that is clearly not the intent as explained by Venture-Captain Mark.
I understand what Mark is saying and I am fine with that (although it is a free replay) but we need to make it clear. The way I read the statement by Mark, I can GM, then play it for additional credit (New PC). My playing it would not have to be under the replay rule.
It is both hilarious and tragic that this needs clarification.
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But it does not say that any where... If that was the intent, they need to say that!
I must be failing my linguistics checks today...
If you play you earn 1 credit that is applied to the character that played through the scenario.
If you GM a scenario, you earn 1 credit that can be applied to any character that hasn't played through the scenario.You receive GM or player credit regardless of the order you play/GM the scenario. You may not earn more than 1 player credit and 1 GM credit regardless of how many times you GM or play the scenario. You are free to use PPP to seat legal tables, but if you already have earned your credits you do not earn any additional ones.
Replay is now for no credit, period. There is only play for credit. Play happens when you play it for the first time. Oh, I think I finally get where you are coming from. Maybe. But if I run #43 the 1st time and get GM credit, I am then able to turn around an play #43 with a 2nd character. There is no special circumstance required because this is not replay. I have not yet played in order to be bothered by replay.
I will, however, disclaim that I've played the board game Talisman since I was 12 and I can be a little b!~!@ about words :)
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It is both hilarious and tragic that this needs clarification.
Problem is, I have inquiring players that really want to know, and they don't like the current rules, they are going to hate the changes even more, If the replay is going the way I think it is going.
I don't care either way, but I know a Whole city of players that did not like the old replay rules and are not going to like the new ones if they don't get credit at all!
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I must be failing my linguistics checks today...
Replay is now for no credit, period. There is only play for credit. Play happens when you play it for the first time. Oh, I think I finally get where you are coming from. Maybe. But if I run #43 the 1st time and get GM credit, I am then able to turn around an play #43 with a 2nd character. There is no special circumstance required because this is not replay. I have not yet played in order to be bothered by replay.
I will, however, disclaim that I've played the board game Talisman since I was 12 and I can be a little b%&&& about words :)
Ok,
First we are just speculating that replay is of no credit Period based on what he said, but since he has not changed replay rules yet we are not certain.
And Once again, because we are just Speculating about Replay rules, since he has not gone out and changed the Replay rules. Nothing has changed, Still to play a game a second time you need to be using replay rules, so to get Player Credit for the first time after already GMing it you need to fall under the Replay Rules.
You keep quoting what he said. Which Mentions Nothing about the current replay rules, therefore until he says other wise they would still be in effect.
That is why I am upset about not clarifying both when he mention GM credit, since what he says contradicts replay with out actually saying to get rid of them!
Edit: I know they are working on them. I would have rather he said nothing until they had everything ready because now it is just confusing with a half rule!
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I must be failing my linguistics checks today...
Replay is now for no credit, period. There is only play for credit. Play happens when you play it for the first time. Oh, I think I finally get where you are coming from. Maybe. But if I run #43 the 1st time and get GM credit, I am then able to turn around an play #43 with a 2nd character. There is no special circumstance required because this is not replay. I have not yet played in order to be bothered by replay.
I will, however, disclaim that I've played the board game Talisman since I was 12 and I can be a little b%&&& about words :)
Ok,
First we are just speculating that replay is of no credit Period based on what he said, but since he has not changed replay rules yet we are not certain.
And Once again, because we are just Speculating about Replay rules, since he has not gone out and changed the Replay rules. Nothing has changed, Still to play a game a second time you need to be using replay rules, so to get Player Credit for the first time after already GMing it you need to fall under the Replay Rules.
You keep quoting what he said. Which Mentions Nothing about the current replay rules, therefore until he says other wise they would still be in effect.
That is why I am upset about not clarifying both when he mention GM credit, since what he says contradicts replay with out actually saying to get rid of them!
Edit: I know they are working on them. I would have rather he said nothing until they had everything ready because now it is just confusing with a half rule!
It's very clear. If you don't understand the rules, I am sorry.
Best of luck to you.
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It's very clear. If you don't understand the rules, I am sorry.
Best of luck to you.
Wait? Huh? How is it Clear? If Mud was clear maybe...
Edit: Everyone here, Is reading into what he said, Nothing you guys have said is actually what he said.
It may be his intent, But he never said it.
All he talked about was GM credit, Nothing about Replay rules, so why would they be different now?
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First we are just speculating that replay is of no credit Period based on what he said, but since he has not changed replay rules yet we are not certain.
Shouldn't it be clear that this rules changes obliterates replay for credit? At least it's clear to me. You will not replay for credit ever. You've gotten 1 XP (play) as a player, any other time you (re)play that mod, no additional credit.
And Once again, because we are just Speculating about Replay rules, since he has not gone out and changed the Replay rules. Nothing has changed, Still to play a game a second time you need to be using replay rules, so to get Player Credit for the first time after already GMing it you need to fall under the Replay Rules.
No. you. don't. Replay implies by definition that you have already played it. Running it is not playing it. 1 and 1, in any order. It's so mind bogglingly simple. That's why it's an awesome ruling. It's elegant, it's simple. It doesn't require many conditions or exceptions.
if (!HasPlayedForCredit)
return 1 XP
else if (!HasGMedForCredit)
return 1 XP
else
return 0
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All he talked about was GM credit, Nothing about Replay rules, so why would they be different now?
Replaying Scenarios
Replay is legal as of 2.2, but only in this manner:
• You may only replay a scenario in order to follow the “Play, Play, Play” rule to make sure a legal table happens. This means that if you previously played a scenario but the only way to make a legal four-person table is for you to replay it again, relay is now allowed. From another perspective, if three of the four players have already played a scenario but the forth player has not, the three players may elect to replay the scenario to ensure the fourth is part of a legal table. You may not replay a scenario just for the fun of it.
• You may not replay a scenario with the same faction that you played it with before.
• You may not replay a scenario with the same character that you played it with before.
• If you spoil the plot for the table, the GM has the right to ask you to leave the table and is under no obligation to award you a chronicle sheet. Be very careful about character knowledge versus player knowledge. If you’re concerned about possibly spoiling something during the course of play, take the GM aside and ask how she would like it handled. Remember: the goal of replay is to make sure fun gaming happens, not to remove the fun from gaming.Replay will likely not happen very often, but it adds an extra weapon to the arsenal of GMs who run smaller game sessions and often have trouble finding a scenario that fits all of the players present. We removed the player check in the reporting system that checked whether or not you had played the scenario before. That check has been replaced with a character check that alerts you if your character has played a scenario before (and thus does not count the scenario).
Play != replay, therefore this has nothing to do with the conversation about the changes to credit.
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Mark,
None of what you are saying, has changed the fact, that what he said changes the current replay rules. All he said was it changes the Current GM credit Rules.
Once again He did not Say anything about Replay Rules!
All I want from him is a statement that the current rules changes both, if that was his intent.
Edit: Ok, you guys must not be understanding what I am saying, I must not be clear enough, Because nothing you have said address what I am saying.
Edit: I will be in the chat room, maybe I can make it clearer there, also I am on Strong Pain killers so that may be screwing things up to ;).
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Edit: Ok, you guys must not be understanding what I am saying, I must not be clear enough, Because nothing you have said address what I am saying.
Why don't you try a clear, and concise example like I did?
Yes, what you appear to be saying makes no sense to me as you appear to be giving equivalency to words which do not have them. I have quoted you both Hyrum ruling and the replay rules from the guide. Please feel free to point at exactly the problem as you see it. The words are there, use them.
What is chat room and how do I get to it?
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Ok... An example
------------------------------
Old Rules..
I Play The Devil We Know Part II: Cassomir’s Locker I get Player Credit
Later I GM The Devil We Know Part II: Cassomir’s Locker and Get credit with a different Character of a Different Faction.
Replay Rules assume I do not know all the Faction Missions, so Josh said once I GM a scenario I can not use Replay rules to Get Credit once I have GM it. So my GMing was the last time I would ever get credit for The Devil We Know Part II: Cassomir’s Locker.
-----------------------------------------------------------
New Rules Based solely on what he said and not speculation.
I GM The Devil We Know Part II: Cassomir’s Locker and Get GM credit.
Since the Faction rule/and any order rule was changed I can now Play The Devil We Know Part II: Cassomir’s Locker after GMing, opening up the ability now to get Replay credit where you could not before since the order does no longer matter. Since GMing it was Considered the same as playing it, I am still considered as played it, so to Replay it I have to use the Replay rules, which he has not stated has changed, other then throwing out factions.
-----------------------------
We are speculating based on what he said, that you can never get credit for replay, So basically we are speculating that replay was basically thrown out.
Less people are going to want to play now with new players in a scenario because they get nothing for it, if our speculation is correct.
Now for Us GMs that may not seem like a big deal, but to players who just play, from what I have seen, unless they are getting something out of it they are not going to play, so this will make it harder to re run scenarios for new players.
Edit: I know what I am saying puts a lot more confusion into the actual rule, All I am saying "as Is" that is what you can get.
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He doesn't understand it as written he's not going to understand it as programming logic.
Official PFS Ruling wrote:
If you play you earn 1 credit that is applied to the character that played through the scenario.
If you GM a scenario, you earn 1 credit that can be applied to any character that hasn't played through the scenario.You receive GM or player credit regardless of the order you play/GM the scenario. You may not earn more than 1 player credit and 1 GM credit regardless of how many times you GM or play the scenario. You are free to use PPP to seat legal tables, but if you already have earned your credits you do not earn any additional ones.
The replay rules say:
You may only replay a scenario in order to follow the “Play, Play, Play” rule to make sure a legal table happens.
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Ok... An example
------------------------------
Old Rules..
I Play The Devil We Know Part II: Cassomir’s Locker I get Player Credit
Later I GM The Devil We Know Part II: Cassomir’s Locker and Get credit with a different Character of a Different Faction.
Replay Rules assume I do not know all the Faction Missions, so Josh said once I GM a scenario I can not use Replay rules to Get Credit once I have GM it. So my GMing was the last time I would ever get credit for The Devil We Know Part II: Cassomir’s Locker.
-----------------------------------------------------------
New Rules Based solely on what he said and not speculation.
I GM The Devil We Know Part II: Cassomir’s Locker and Get GM credit.
Since the Faction rule/and any order rule was changed I can now Play The Devil We Know Part II: Cassomir’s Locker after GMing, opening up the ability now to get Replay credit where you could not before since the order does no longer matter. Since GMing it was Considered the same as playing it, I am still considered as played it, so to Replay it I have to use the Replay rules, which he has not stated has changed, other then throwing out factions.
-----------------------------
We are speculating based on what he said, that you can never get credit for replay, So basically we are speculating that replay was basically thrown out.
Less people are going to want to play now with new players in a scenario because they get nothing for it, if our speculation is correct.
Now for Us GMs that may not seem like a big deal, but to players who just play, from what I have seen, unless they are getting something out of it they are not going to play, so this will make it harder to re run scenarios for new players.
Edit: I know what I am saying puts a lot more confusion into the actual rule, All I am saying "as Is" that is what you can get.
Yes, replaying for credit is essentially dead. You can replay for fun to make a table but doing so carries all the risks of normal playing with none of the rewards.
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Since GMing it was Considered the same as playing it
Why would you say something so hurtful? Seriously. This is the whole crux of your problem, or the crux of mine.
Where do you get the impression there is equivalency between GMing and playing? Heck with impression. Where does it say they are the same thing?
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Why would you say something so hurtful? Seriously. This is the whole crux of your problem, or the crux of mine.Where do you get the impression there is equivalency between GMing and playing? Heck with impression. Where does it say they are the same thing?
Based on the old rules and rulings that Josh has said.
If it was not considered the same as Playing then in the old system GMs could get credit for any character of any faction, which was not true and the order would have never mattered!.
Edit: Granted once again, what I am saying adds a complexity that probably was not meant to be there, but it is there because of the lack of talking about replay rules by Hyrum.
Director of Brand Strategy
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The faction restriction no longer applies because a player can only get credit for playing with one character. If I GM #43, I apply the credit to my favorite character, who is a member of the Osirion faction. I later play it and since I lurve Osirion and refuse to play any of those other dumb factions, I play the scenario with my other Osirion faction PC. Or vice versa. Since I can't ever get credit with my third character, who may be another faction or may not, it doesn't matter. Some people really like one faction, and the current rule allows them to get both GM and player credit for that faction.
I hope this is clear, cause I can't think of another way to say the same thing yet another time ;-P
Dragnmoon, here is the way it looks to me, oh and it is not just a new GM Credit rule, it is a new Credit rule in general.
You receive GM or player credit regardless of the order you play/GM the scenario. You may not earn more than 1 player credit and 1 GM credit regardless of how many times you GM or play the scenario.
As it says, you now can get credit twice from a scenario, once for running it and once for playing it. The order no longer matters for getting the two credits, but it does still matter how you earn the player credit. So let's look at the last part of the new rule, which I think is where the confusion comes from.
You are free to use PPP to seat legal tables, but if you already have earned your credits you do not earn any additional ones.
I believe the intent here is what did not fully make it into print. You still need to use the "play, play, play" rule in order to earn the player credit after you have earned the GM credit but are not required to use the replay rule to earn that credit, which is what the old system had required. In other words, any situation covered by "play, play, play" is valid and not just being needed to make a legal table, via the replay rule, will get you that player credit once you have the GM credit from a scenario. Basically, it sounds like they are taking what the replay rule did, adding that to "play, play, play" and then getting rid of the replay rule.
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The faction restriction no longer applies because a player can only get credit for playing with one character. If I GM #43, I apply the credit to my favorite character, who is a member of the Osirion faction. I later play it and since I lurve Osirion and refuse to play any of those other dumb factions, I play the scenario with my other Osirion faction PC. Or vice versa. Since I can't ever get credit with my third character, who may be another faction or may not, it doesn't matter. Some people really like one faction, and the current rule allows them to get both GM and player credit for that faction.
I hope this is clear, cause I can't think of another way to say the same thing yet another time ;-P
Mark, I think part of the confusion lies behind that there is now no order consideration.. i.e. have to play before GM to get both credits. When writing the updated guide that may be a point that needs to be stressed that it doesn't matter in which order the two credits are applied, but the limit restriction is on 2 credits per mod.
*** Disclaimer unless I'm off my rocker and then just move along, nothing to see here******
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The faction restriction no longer applies because a player can only get credit for playing with one character. If I GM #43, I apply the credit to my favorite character, who is a member of the Osirion faction. I later play it and since I lurve Osirion and refuse to play any of those other dumb factions, I play the scenario with my other Osirion faction PC. Or vice versa. Since I can't ever get credit with my third character, who may be another faction or may not, it doesn't matter. Some people really like one faction, and the current rule allows them to get both GM and player credit for that faction.
I hope this is clear, cause I can't think of another way to say the same thing yet another time ;-P
All I am asking Is..
Are Replay Rules as they are Gone... Because that is what you are saying without actually saying that!
Can I tell my players
For now On they can never get credit more then once, that replay rules are out the door.
And since the Old Replay rules are out the door, to get player credit after gming it it does not matter if the table is legal already.
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The faction restriction no longer applies because a player can only get credit for playing with one character. If I GM #43, I apply the credit to my favorite character, who is a member of the Osirion faction. I later play it and since I lurve Osirion and refuse to play any of those other dumb factions, I play the scenario with my other Osirion faction PC. Or vice versa. Since I can't ever get credit with my third character, who may be another faction or may not, it doesn't matter. Some people really like one faction, and the current rule allows them to get both GM and player credit for that faction.
I hope this is clear, cause I can't think of another way to say the same thing yet another time ;-P
Mark,
No issues with what you are saying, I think Dragnmoon is having an issue with some old language, and the new GM credit rules.
In the old system, a GM could never play at a table for a game he has GMed, per the PFSOP rules.
In the new system, a GM can still get one player credit, either before he GMs, like the old system, or after he GMs. (Yay!)
However, under the current system, it is unclear whether you can GM a scenario, and then play in the same scenario as anything other than the required 3rd/4th player to make the table legal to run.
For myself, the impression I have is the same as many others, and that is, even if you have already GMed a scenario, you can still play in that scenario even if the table would be legal without you. (My hope)
So, option 1: GM a scenario, only play in it for the second credit if you are needed to make a legal table.
Or, option 2: GM a scenario, only be able to gain the player credit for it, if not already earned by playing before GMing, by playing at a table that would not be legal without you.
Both of the above options assume that you are GMing the scenario before you get a chance to play it for credit.
And, as mentioned, my hope is that option 1 is what you meant to create, as option 2 is, again, a bit too restricive in my opinion.
Then again, I {i}like{/i} the LFR replay rules. Then again, I have to read a module I am running within a day or two before I run it to really be able to run it well, and remember what is all there...
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For example, If I am running a game at a local gaming store, and I have seven regulars who show up, and say another two people drift in who are interested and would like to give the game a try what should I do?
If no one else is willing to GM, so the group can be broken into say two tables, with one gm and three players, and another gm and four players, I have reached the “hard ceiling” and I would have to turn away these two potentially new players.
My personal opinion is that your 'regulars' are doing everyone a disservice by not offering their seats to the walk ups. Also, by this point one of your 'regulars' should be thinking about running games themselves. Especially stuff they have already played. I'm not talking about being ready to run a game cold in this situation, but if you have regulars who are interested in GMing, they should spend time going over something they have already played to be able to offer it in a pinch. I know this is just an example, but probably somewhat based in reality. The point here is that out of 10 people, it sounds like only 1 (you) are actively trying to grow the community. Clearly the 2 walkups probably don't know much about the community and they are the kind of people you want to make a great impression on so they can become regulars too. But it sounds like the table is full of people who want to earn 1 XP and 2 PA, rather than help grow something special and cool.
As a practical matter I feel 5 is the perfect table size. Seven hurts badly and the thought of going over 7 makes me a sad panda.
Now that I am done with my perhaps petulant rant, Mark you have made a good point. it would hardly be fair to have one person GMing all the time.
The situation is at this point is hypothetical, but well within the realm of possibility. When I have Gmed before at this particular game store, sometimes you had 2 people sometimes 14. Sometimes people are willing to GM sometimes they arnt. From what I hear they are running a kingmaker game at the moment.
Yes I am on the same page, my favorite table size is 5. But sometimes you get a few more cards in your hand then you expect.
Last year we were doing a Curse of the Crimson Throne AP, and we stared with 10 people. It was a bit zooey, (animal companions included) but it was fun.
I suppose im just hoping for a little flexibility, in case i find i need to bend the rules a little bit to make sure people can play. I would much prefer to be inclusive rather then exclusive.
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Director of Brand Strategy
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Replay still exists, but not for credit. The replay rule has one reference to receiving a chronicle, and only then by saying a GM doesn't need to give you one if you spoil the plot. I don't see the need to further clarify it, though it will be reworded in the next version of the Guide to be less wordy and more concise.
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Replay still exists, but not for credit. The replay rule has one reference to receiving a chronicle, and only then by saying a GM doesn't need to give you one if you spoil the plot. I don't see the need to further clarify it, though it will be reworded in the next version of the Guide to be less wordy and more concise.
That is fine,
Though I am surprised there has not been an uproar on this for all those that pushed for replay in the first place.
There are a few of us that don't care that we will not get credit for replay anymore.
Though most of the "Players only" I know are going to be very upset about this and will not replay since they get nothing out of it, which will make it that I can get new players to play old scenarios most of my players have played since it will be harder to get a Min Legal table.
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I understand the new rule as written and explained. And I understand that GMing is not playing. But in reality, you know more about the scenario than if you just play it, so it just didn't make sense to me.
The new rule seems simple, not logical, but easy to administer.
It just needs to be added to the official document so it is crystal clear. Trust me, many folks monitor this discussion and draw their own conclusions so I am merely trying to eliminate concerns I have heard within our own community. Please stay far away from allowing replays.
Mark, As Venture-Captain and a rep of the PFS community, get used to difficult to answer questions. Be careful with your responses are make sure they are professional so you don't drive folks away from the game. I am cool with what you said, but others will draw their own conclusions.
Thanks.
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I understand the new rule as written and explained. And I understand that GMing is not playing. But in reality, you know more about the scenario than if you just play it, so it just didn't make sense to me.
The new rule seems simple, not logical, but easy to administer.
It just needs to be added to the official document so it is crystal clear. Trust me, many folks monitor this discussion and draw their own conclusions so I am merely trying to eliminate concerns I have heard within our own community. Please stay far away from allowing replays.
Mark, As Venture-Captain and a rep of the PFS community, get used to difficult to answer questions. Be careful with your responses are make sure they are professional so you don't drive folks away from the game. I am cool with what you said, but others will draw their own conclusions.
Thanks.
I wouldn't exactly call this a difficult question. It was simple. Some people just can't take things at face value.
Replay is dead. We lived without it in LG. We can live without it now.
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I agree Gallard, the question was not difficult, but getting to a clear answer sure was. I agree that replay sucks and should not occur. That would get ungodly boring for me as a GM. I just had a hard time understanding why I would get credit for playing Silent Tide after I ran it five times. Then it got more confusing with the replay rule, that no longer exists.
Answer: There is NO replay for credit. You can replay to fill a legal table, but no credit will be issued. You will get credit once for playing it and once for GMing it, regardless of the order it occurs.
I would be fine with still eating scenario's, but this option seems much easier to explain.
Many of us never participated in any other organized play so this is new to us so feel free to share your previous knowledge of how things worked in the past.
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Director of Brand Strategy
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We had a number of discussions about what the rule needed to do, and it does it, and it is official. It will appear in the FAQ as well as a future iteration of the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play. We knew going into the policy change that it wouldn't be welcome to everyone, but we made what we all feel is the best choice.
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We had a number of discussions about what the rule needed to do, and it does it, and it is official. It will appear in the FAQ as well as a future iteration of the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play. We knew going into the policy change that it wouldn't be welcome to everyone, but we made what we all feel is the best choice.
Plus, you know, sometimes its good have more than a week or so to use a rule before you start altering it yet again . . . ;)
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My group has been having two sessions twice a month since the last Saturday in February. We have been having a blast and loving it. There are only about 7 scenarios the majority of the established group hasn't played. The replay rule has helped us tremendously in helping new players "catch up" to the established ones (especially with the multi-part scnenarios). I will see how this plays out, but I foresee going to one session twice a month or two sessions once a month. Cutting back when we are trying to grow disturbs me.
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My group has been having two sessions twice a month since the last Saturday in February. We have been having a blast and loving it. There are only about 7 scenarios the majority of the established group hasn't played. The replay rule has helped us tremendously in helping new players "catch up" to the established ones (especially with the multi-part scnenarios). I will see how this plays out, but I foresee going to one session twice a month or two sessions once a month. Cutting back when we are trying to grow disturbs me.
What level is the group?
Every month now they will be releasing 1 lower level scenario, so you can always play those.
Edit: You can also still replay to let the new players catch up, the players that already played though just won't be getting credit. Still will be some enjoyment in playing with friends.
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What level is the group?
That is an interesting question. We had a group of 6 at level 6/7 then three left (we are near a military installation). So three of us left have level 6/7. Most of the rest of the group have level 3/4. And we have new people that started last session and hopefully more new ones starting this next Saturday.
Every month now they will be releasing 1 lower level scenario, so you can always play those.
I don't think the first low level one comes out until the end of December though. I hope the 7 we have left will tide us over, and it will be interesting to see if one a month will keep us afloat and reasonably close in levels.
Edit: You can also still replay to let the new players catch up, the players that already played though just won't be getting credit. Still will be some enjoyment in playing with friends.
I'm ok with this, but not sure how some of my players are going to take it. Especially with consumables being used and possible death.
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Isn't that a pregen? :P
Though I am going to still suggest to Hyrum to let players help new players join in with replay and not worry about using stuff up and death!
You could do it as a pregen, but I do have to agree with Dragnmoon. Having the ability to play through with the character you enjoy playing when you need an extra player to make a valid table shouldn't make the player fear that there is zero reward for all the risk.
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You could do it as a pregen, but I do have to agree with Dragnmoon. Having the ability to play through with the character you enjoy playing when you need an extra player to make a valid table shouldn't make the player fear that there is zero reward for all the risk.
+1
When I do get to play, I rather like playing with my character, not Seoni, Valeros, etc. However the threat of death, and the use of consumables (Which by the way, skews that wealth/level curve the other way by giving negatives with no rewards...) would probably make me want to take a pregen and simply not enjoy playing the character during the game.
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You could do it as a pregen, but I do have to agree with Dragnmoon. Having the ability to play through with the character you enjoy playing when you need an extra player to make a valid table shouldn't make the player fear that there is zero reward for all the risk.+1
When I do get to play, I rather like playing with my character, not Seoni, Valeros, etc. However the threat of death, and the use of consumables (Which by the way, skews that wealth/level curve the other way by giving negatives with no rewards...) would probably make me want to take a pregen and simply not enjoy playing the character during the game.
Seems like the out of character rewards are being discounted out of hand.
If you are replaying for no credit with your character (not a pre-gen) it should really be falling under 'helping out new players.' You are taking time out to sit down at a table and help encourage new players, playing a role you are well comfortable in (your character) who has prior character (potentially) and player knowledge of the events that are about to unfold. You should already be doing this for love, not money. Since you already have player knowledge it's a judgment call for you weather you think the risk of death is worth it. If you don't deem the risk worth it, play a pre-gen. Why is the assumption that playing a pre-gen != having fun? These appear to me to be great opportunities both for encouraging role play with the new players and community building in general. I have not personally had this situation come up yet though.
If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with.
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You could do it as a pregen, but I do have to agree with Dragnmoon. Having the ability to play through with the character you enjoy playing when you need an extra player to make a valid table shouldn't make the player fear that there is zero reward for all the risk.+1
When I do get to play, I rather like playing with my character, not Seoni, Valeros, etc. However the threat of death, and the use of consumables (Which by the way, skews that wealth/level curve the other way by giving negatives with no rewards...) would probably make me want to take a pregen and simply not enjoy playing the character during the game.
What about a nominal reward for replaying? Something to offset the cost of consumables at least:
Tier 1-2 - 100 gp
Tier 3-4 - 200 gp
Tier 4-5 - 300 gp
Tier 5-6 - 500 gp
etc... No PA, no XP, no Boons (or Banes!)
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What about a nominal reward for replaying? Something to offset the cost of consumables at least
etc... No PA, no XP, no Boons (or Banes!)
I'm not sure the system need have rewards. Honestly, I think if you're playing a module to either get to play, or to make a legal table, you simply should be allowed ignore any outcome of the adventure, good or bad.
Looks like Dragnmoon's question has been answered but I'll monitor this thread to make sure the answer is clear.
Hyrum.
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Honestly, I think if you're playing a module to either get to play, or to make a legal table, you simply should be allowed ignore any outcome of the adventure, good or bad.
IMO, this is a good idea. If a player uses one of their own PC's during a no-credit replay, he/she just does not receive a chronicle. Essentially nothing to report, nothing gained, nothing lost. What's the difference between that and a throw-away pregen? At least then, the player who is getting no credit, should have more fun because they can use their favorite PC. For others, they can just use a pregen. Besides, it's a good opportunity to live-test a class you haven't played before. I, personally, would use a pregen, but to accommodate the rest of the society, why not allow both?
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Honestly, I think if you're playing a module to either get to play, or to make a legal table, you simply should be allowed ignore any outcome of the adventure, good or bad.IMO, this is a good idea. If a player uses one of their own PC's during a no-credit replay, he/she just does not receive a chronicle. Essentially nothing to report, nothing gained, nothing lost. What's the difference between that and a throw-away pregen? At least then, the player who is getting no credit, should have more fun because they can use their favorite PC. For others, they can just use a pregen. Besides, it's a good opportunity to live-test a class you haven't played before. I, personally, would use a pregen, but to accommodate the rest of the society, why not allow both?
If you knew your character couldn't die, and didn't have to account for consumables, would you play it different? Why not blow every wand charge, every potion, every scroll? That mentality could lead to quite an upsetting experience.
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What level is the group?That is an interesting question. We had a group of 6 at level 6/7 then three left (we are near a military installation). So three of us left have level 6/7. Most of the rest of the group have level 3/4. And we have new people that started last session and hopefully more new ones starting this next Saturday.
Every month now they will be releasing 1 lower level scenario, so you can always play those.I don't think the first low level one comes out until the end of December though. I hope the 7 we have left will tide us over, and it will be interesting to see if one a month will keep us afloat and reasonably close in levels.
Edit: You can also still replay to let the new players catch up, the players that already played though just won't be getting credit. Still will be some enjoyment in playing with friends.I'm ok with this, but not sure how some of my players are going to take it. Especially with consumables being used and possible death.
your 6/7's will soon be too high anyway for new players, so maybe now they will gm for the new players. at least they have the option to do so. As it was before all those gm's who helped build a player base of running 0-season mods can now get more than 1 characters past 5th.
If you knew your character couldn't die, and didn't have to account for consumables, would you play it different? Why not blow every wand charge, every potion, every scroll? That mentality could lead to quite an upsetting experience.
This was my first thought as well. But if they play a pre-gen I suspect they would be apt to play in a more "carefree" manner as well since they wouldn't have a lasting consequence for having a pre-gen character die during the the scenario.
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If you knew your character couldn't die, and didn't have to account for consumables, would you play it different? Why not blow every wand charge, every potion, every scroll? That mentality could lead to quite an upsetting experience.This was my first thought as well. But if they play a pre-gen I suspect they would be apt to play in a more "carefree" manner as well since they wouldn't have a lasting consequence for having a pre-gen character die during the the scenario.
But even the new Pregens likely won't wands with 50 charges to blow through. I would expect their consumables to be limited. The fear of death thing won't change, however, except that if you die, then you hurt the rest of the party..