Let's Talk About Spells!


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Bards shouls also be the masters of shadow spells.


Anyone else notice that the Bard Spells in PHB ((Not the expainsion books)), all fall in line with Elven magic. Just the right mix of healing, cureing, shadow, wizard identify/miss spells, divination spells, terrain chanign spells.

I really like the bards spells, because you could create any elven bard and play them (based on the spells you pick) as Healers, Charmers/Singer, illusionists, Diviners, or Shadows.

Hope new bard spells will still promote this elven feel, and balance.

Any time i feel like playing a OD&D elf, i just create a elf bard.

Dark Archive

Grand Stone wrote:
Spells which you can choose between fire or cold version when you are casting it...

A spell that drained heat from one target and then used it to damage another would be funky, perhaps even as a longer-duration spell that allowed you to take a standard action to inflict cold damage to a target within close range, and on the following round, you could use that stolen heat to inflict fire damage to another target (or the same target!) on the following round. The spell would last 1 round / level, or whatever, and allow you to inflict damage each round with your standard action, either cold damage to 'charge up' or fire damage to discharge the stored heat.

Grand Stone wrote:
The thing is, that if you want to create a fire mage or an electric mage or whatever, you should be able to do so and there is no reason why there isnt an cold based spell on every level.

True that. I remember Unearthed Arcana coming up with their 'Domain Wizards,' and chill touch being the 'Cold' Wizard 1st level spell choice, despite not really having anything to do with cold, despite the name. (Making a version of chill touch that is mechanically similar, but is Evocation [Cold] instead of Necromancy, has no special effect on undead, and inflicts Dex damage instead of Str damage, could be neat.)

Third-party sources add a fair number of options, with Relics & Rituals I & II and Monte's Book(s) of Eldritch Might having a pretty decent selection.

For the elemental / energy type stuff, the Legends & Lairs School of Evocation book very deliberately makes sure to include an Acid, Cold, Electrical, Fire and Sonic evocation spell (or several such) in each level of spells, and setting specific books (like WotC's Frostburn) also have a selection of appropriate spells (Cold specific, in this case), although they aren't open content.

As early as 1st edition, Ed Greenwood was refluffing burning hands into 'Freezing Fingers' or whatever, so there's always that route as well, just picking whatever spell and having some spellcaster research a different energy type variation, like 'Burning Grasp' (fire-damage shocking grasp) or 'Lightning Hands' (electrical damage burning hands).

For that matter, a direct damage negative energy spell for arcane casters, like a ranged version of the Cleric's inflict wounds spells, could be neat.


Some good thoughts there. I enjoy the steal-heat spells :)

What do people think about the fast healing spells of the druid which heals 1-4 HP each round for 1round per level? I enjoyed them a lot.

I have also another requierment: FUN high level druid spells.
Low lever druids are my favorite class. I must admit that I never reached high level (ended at level 9) however from reading the spells, high level druid spells become BORING. They are either obviusly powerfull (anti-life spell), a simple boring damage spell (firestorm), or to complicated (wether spells). I desire something semi-simple different and fun.

Low level druid spells are a lot of fun by the way. Produce flame, entangle, charm animal, dominate animal, goodberry, fogs, barkskin, warp wood,poison, quench to name a few...

How about a some spells which can only be cast if you are in the shape of a given animal. of spells which automaticly trigger first time you wild-shape, ... How about a similar spell to transformation, but which only works if you are in the shape of an animal, a lightning storm spell which calls ligning as a moveaction (or a free action)...


(Alright, time to come out of being a lurker on these forums for soooo long....)

Pathfinder has been very good in its choice of spells, and I am happy that it makes the Core rulebook so hugely fat. However, some I would like to see....

-More orbs & rays for Sorc/Wiz;

-More damage dealing spells for things like Clerics or rangers:
=> Blademind (from Complete Adventurer), where you make a melee attack with each melee weapon for everyone surrounding you, up to your ranger level (3rd level spell);
=> Arrowmind (also from CAdv), where you make a ranged weapon attack to everyone within range, up to your Ranger level (4th level spell);
=> Give Pallys amd Clerics some kind of Holy Ray/Death Ray/ Disintegration beam for Good/Evil/Chaotic clerics;
=> Give Rangers some kind of Elemental damage spell;

And that's all for now....


Actually, what I dont want, is a fireball for clerics. Its kind of one of the thing which makes the wizard and the cleric different. So, please no low level area of effect damage of equal damage as the fireball ...

However death-ray sound cool. But please, no more save or die spells. I hate those spells. Save or be knocked Unconscious are far better spells.

For rangers, some elemental spell might be ok I geuss.

Dark Archive

Just throwing it out there
Animated Carriage
-= touched carriage can move up to 60 mph


Grand Stone wrote:

Actually, what I dont want, is a fireball for clerics. Its kind of one of the thing which makes the wizard and the cleric different. So, please no low level area of effect damage of equal damage as the fireball ...

However death-ray sound cool. But please, no more save or die spells. I hate those spells. Save or be knocked Unconscious are far better spells.

For rangers, some elemental spell might be ok I geuss.

I'm not advocating a kind of holy fireball or something like that, it would just be redundant. Clerics already have it through channel energy.

By 'Death Ray' I don't mean like Death like 'Power Word Kill' Death, I mean like 'Inflict [adjective] Wounds' Death. Some kind of ranged positive/negative energy spell (preferrably lower-leveled). Like the 'Laser Cleric' in 4e: burny rays of sunlight/hellfire to give the cleric some actual offensive spells that don't require you to summon something.


For me, there's enough battle spells around to keep all the spellcasters killing themselves for years without getting bored. My! when a high level druid can nuke a town with just one mid-level spell ( control winds, at higher levels, is really a "cold nuke", if used wisely) you just don't need seeing anything else.
With the actual ratio of battle spell/other spells, it would be totally unwise to let any magic at all in any half-functioning society, specially in the arcane side of it. Wizards and sorcerers, top most exponents of this art, show a pitiful lack of any socially redeemeable stuff: they know how to kill you in a thousand ways, but it's very difficult for them to magickly make a decent meal, a functioning sewer or, on a more player -oriented way, anything but destroy or barr destruction.
I think what Pcs need are options, specially in their lower spell levels. Perhaps a spell to enchant a mirror, so you can later see what had it reflexed? a great spell for spying, that'd never grow old, even if you are a 20th level wizard. And what about a feat/spell that would allow anyone what your low-level detections are showing you? your figther would praise your name in his morning prayers when he could finally discern the dopplegangers from the other thanks to your humble detect evil.
Beside that, most of the spells are made just thinking in terms of plusse/minuses, and/or exception to a rule. It's easier to invent spells if you do that, but at the end, you'd end with just a bunch of spells in many disguises. To create really new stuff, you have to stop thinking only in that way. So, what about a spell that protect something giving it the faculty to walk and actively hide? you have some bonus use ( ruling about the steath skill it'd have) but it's not just the bonus use ( "you have a plus X to use steath to hide something"): the item could move, cold hide or could run.


leandro redondo wrote:

For me, there's enough battle spells around to keep all the spellcasters killing themselves for years without getting bored. My! when a high level druid can nuke a town with just one mid-level spell ( control winds, at higher levels, is really a "cold nuke", if used wisely) you just don't need seeing anything else.

With the actual ratio of battle spell/other spells, it would be totally unwise to let any magic at all in any half-functioning society, specially in the arcane side of it. Wizards and sorcerers, top most exponents of this art, show a pitiful lack of any socially redeemeable stuff: they know how to kill you in a thousand ways, but it's very difficult for them to magickly make a decent meal, a functioning sewer or, on a more player -oriented way, anything but destroy or barr destruction.
I think what Pcs need are options, specially in their lower spell levels. Perhaps a spell to enchant a mirror, so you can later see what had it reflexed? a great spell for spying, that'd never grow old, even if you are a 20th level wizard. And what about a feat/spell that would allow anyone what your low-level detections are showing you? your figther would praise your name in his morning prayers when he could finally discern the dopplegangers from the other thanks to your humble detect evil.
Beside that, most of the spells are made just thinking in terms of plusse/minuses, and/or exception to a rule. It's easier to invent spells if you do that, but at the end, you'd end with just a bunch of spells in many disguises. To create really new stuff, you have to stop thinking only in that way. So, what about a spell that protect something giving it the faculty to walk and actively hide? you have some bonus use ( ruling about the steath skill it'd have) but it's not just the bonus use ( "you have a plus X to use steath to hide something"): the item could move, cold hide or could run.

Some of this can be achieved just by thinking outside the proverbial box. For instance, between wall of stone and stone shape, a 10th level sorcerer could raise himself a fort in days, and repair it in the midst of a siege too.

One thing I do find lacking however is spells that cater to the oft-neglected Eldritch Knight (and possibly the Magus). They really need some spells that allow them to wield their magic as a literal weapon-something like a hammer of force energy that he wields in melee or a spell that he can cast as a swift action upon hitting an opponent in melee.


I just have one comment, regarding many spells, we actually want the same spell in many disguises. Listening to the interview regarding the magnus and the word of power system (or what it was called) I think that the desired simple spells would be addressed :) It seems that you can 1) choose range, choose area type, choose area size, choose elemental etc.
I like the idea :) Maybe I fear that slightly complicated but creative and fun spells would be hard to model using that kind of theme.

When it comes to other spells, remember that the spells got to have some meaing in game terms also. And often, none-combat spells are a waste cuz you dont know in forhand that you need them. Therefor I would very much like spells which can mimic any lower-level spell you know kind of spells. For druids and clerics spontainius casting helps a lot, so that you can prepere more 'what if' kind of spells and redo the choices if you dont need them.

High level druid spells could do some work. As of now I think the druid has some crazy powerfull spells (I havent actually played high-level druid, so bear that in mind), but in my opinion the earthquake and similar spells are not fun to cast. And probably not as NPC either.

Thematicly the druid could use more 'heal nature' kind of spells. Or protection from natural disasters, etc. Sadly, I dont see these as being usefull for the player.

A greater version of goodberry could be fun? A goodberry which removes certain condtions in addition to healing 1HP? For example it could remove sickened and similar conditions. More powerfull versions could heal blindness/deafenes etc.


I would love to see the other domains for clerics from the old spell compendium converted to pathfinder. Either that or new ones. i recently saw one post discussing the fact that the goddess of disease doesn't have a disease domain. I would love to see more domains. Of course, I would also love to see more bard and ranger spells along with assassin and blackguard/antipaladin spells. Maybe even some new ones for witches, paladins, and summoners too.


FiddlersGreen wrote:
Some of this can be achieved just by thinking outside the proverbial box. For instance, between wall of stone and stone shape, a 10th level sorcerer could raise himself a fort in days, and repair it in the midst of a siege too.

hey!!! I didn't say they were completely useless. Just that they're more dangerous than helpful. Even for their own companions, and they are suposedly their mystical providers of tricks and comodities. I've been playing as DM a magocracy for nearly 20 years ( where only arcane magic was allowed), and I've played more than one wizard -"out of the box" ideas (i.e Energy Transformation Field, from 3.5 WoTC spell compendium, plus a witch providing 1 heal, 1 remove curse,1 regenerate, 1 restoration... plus any witch casting hexes to charge it as needed, and the city can provide tho their citizens and adventurers a nice health-care facility for the ages to come. Now, you don't have to have allways a temple of powerful holy men in your pc home town, just some old ruins from beyond memory and and creepy old low-level witch, for example. The spell was thougth as a trap to deny magic-users their powers and blast them with some nasty spell, although). Spells like that are my favourites, but a +5 to something is just boring. And wizards, and sorcerer have many more spells from the later class, I'm afraid. A few more of this useful spells it's what I would like. You don't have to memorize them every day, but that's the beauty of classes like wizards, witches and clerics, that you can afford to know a few non-kaboom spells.

Sorry for the misunderstanding.
By the way, I wish good luck to your sorcerer living in this one-story fortress( engineering checks would be a terror with such a hurry), without glasses, decent doors or porticulis, and reparing 2-inches thick outer walls in the middle of the siege ( 55 square feet of them at a time, I mean). I would advice her to forget her 4th and 5th spells for good if it ever came at that point.


Low- to mid-level abjuration spells that would actually benefit from Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus. Currently, pretty much the only thing that gets any use out of them is up around 5th to 7th level -- Repulsion, Dismissal and Banishment?

Anyways, I recall the Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil, and the Master Abjurer PrC from Complete Mage, and have high hopes that their (or similar future PrCs') prerequisites might not be useless throwaway feats in the future.

Scarab Sages

Having been ambushed by Giant Slugs, my players were positively begging for some sort of salt spell at last week's game...Hehe.

-Uriel


If it been posted i'm sorry but I would like to see some more shadow spells to help go with the feel of the shadow mage found in the APG.


I'd like to see more RP/story-based spells. WotC created quite a number that was fun.

Spells like Familial Geas, where the Geas not only affected you, but your descendants as well. There was one that caused great harm to a loved one when casted on you, there was another that cursed an arcane caster from casting spells or suffer negative levels (Laeral's Crowning Touch). There was Mindrape, which allowed the caster to completely change every aspect of a target's memories. There was also Morality Undone, where your character lost their conscience completely, so that even thinking about doing something evil actually sounded like a good idea in the character's mind to do.

Spells like that, and definitely less damage-dealing/combat-type spells.

Also, I know some here would be dismayed at me suggesting this, but no repeats from Spell Compendium. Spell Compendium spells (or any spells from WotC) work just fine in Pathfinder, why would you want repeats? What could Pathfinder do to make them more...Pathfinderized? Very little, if at all.

So, in Ultimate Magic, I'm looking for really new and unique spells not seen elsewhere (particularly the 3E D&D books). In fact, there's a ton of 2e spells that never got updated, those old Priest and Wizard Compendiums are perfect sources for new spells not done before.


This one even I can solve. Hire a cleric in your party. They can cast remove disease... I also recommened to boost stats like INT, WIS and CHA. Maybe have wizzards (or sorcerers?) constantly cast haste. You will get +1 action each turn, so you can write two pages in the time of one... (or I'm I confusing this world with something else?)

In the meantime, my scrying spells does seems to work... Can you please send me a body part such as a lock of hair or a bit of nail?


I love the spells in Planescape Torment.

Pain Mirror (level 2)
For a while any damage taken by the caster is also dealt to all enemies within a ten foot radius.

Enoll Eva's Duplication (level 5)
Short duration spell. Whenever the target attacks or casts a spell, that attack or spell is duplicated and is cast again at the same target (same goes for physical attacks). Basically doubles usefulness of spells and attacks.

Fire and Ice (level 5)
Deals fire and ice damage to all within a 30' blast radius from the target.

Howl of Pandemonium (level 6)
All targets within the target area are confused and stunned. (they do get saves)

Celestial Host (level 9)
Summons angels. They kill stuff for you.


Razz wrote:

"Some good stuff"

Also, I know some here would be dismayed at me suggesting this, but no repeats from Spell Compendium. Spell Compendium spells (or any spells from WotC) work just fine in Pathfinder, why would you want repeats? What could Pathfinder do to make them more...Pathfinderized? Very little, if at all.

Well for one they could proof read them, those spells have issues.


Agree with Eric here.

Mostly, they did a good job on the core rullebook, but there are a few cases I'm still dissapointed.

The number one irritation is
Magic missile
In 3.5, a 10-12 level wizzard could very well find that magic missile was the spell in their entire arsenal which did the most damage. It was by far not uncommon that magic missile could do more spell than any 2nd, 3rd or 4th level spell. No touch attack, no damage resistance, just role damge. Why on earth would you choose any other spell? For example shocking grasp? Its never better than magic missile. Not in any situation, never.

2) Cone of cold? Why is this a 5th level spell?

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