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I'm a bit confused by the wording of rending ability.
The rule says "This attack deals an additional amount
of damage, but no more than once per round"
But on the monster profile it says "Special Attacks rend (2 claws, 1d6+7)"
So does it means that both claws count for one rend that deal 1D6+7 otherwise i'm lost.
I thought that if the troll ,in this case, was hitting with 2 of his 3 natural attack he was entitled to 2 extra rend attack!
"Special attacks: Rend (2 claws, 1d6+7)".
This means that the creature can rend for 1d6+7 damage if it hits with 2 claw attacks.
So: The Troll hits with 2 claw attacks against the same opponent, and thus gets the opportunity to rend once. If it hits with another 2 claw attacks against an opponent during the same round, it can not rend, since it has already done so.
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"Special attacks: Rend (2 claws, 1d6+7)".
This means that the creature can rend for 1d6+7 damage if it hits with 2 claw attacks.
So: The Troll hits with 2 claw attacks against the same opponent, and thus gets the opportunity to rend once. If it hits with another 2 claw attacks against an opponent during the same round, it can not rend, since it has already done so.
Ok so if the Troll hit with at least both of his claws during a full attack he deal and additionnal 1d6+7 dmg for free?
Is that it?
That's it :)
(as long as both claw hits are against the same opponent)
Anyone notice the summoners Eidolon has no limit per round to rending? Or is that every monster that has more than one set of claws...
Greetings, fellow travellers.
I agree with Are. For the trolls: both claw attacks need to deal damage, then the troll is entitled for extra rend damage (1d6+7).
The question which bothers me: What if an enemy has DR, which is not overcome with the attack(s) which are necessary for being allowed to benefit from the rend ability.
Does the rend ability need to overcome the same DR as the normal - let's stay with the troll - claw attacks? I. e.: enemy has DR5/-; troll hits with claws dealing normal damage, reduced for each claw by 5 for DR and is now able/allowed by the mechanics to use the rend ability. Would that damage from rend be reduced by 5 as well, or would it deal the full amount of 1d6+7?
Same goes for the feat Two Weapon Rend: is the rending considered an additional attack, where you swing your weapon an additional time hitting your adversary, thereby having to overcome DR again, or do you, say twist your weapon inside the already dealt wound for extra hurt, thereby not having to overcome DR (again)?
Any ideas?
Ruyan.
Anyone notice the summoners Eidolon has no limit per round to rending? Or is that every monster that has more than one set of claws...
Rend (Ex)
If it hits with two or more natural attacks in 1 round, a creature with the rend special attack can cause tremendous damage by latching onto the opponent's body and tearing flesh. This attack deals an additional amount of damage, but no more than once per round. The type of attacks that must hit and the additional damage are included in the creature's description. The additional damage is usually equal to the damage caused by one of the attacks plus 1-1/2 the creature's Strength bonus.
I would say that since rend belongs to the universal monster rules it can be used only once per round regardless of who or what has it. In order to bypass this rule an Eidolon should clearly say that it ignores this rule and let it use it X times per round or something. If it doesn't say anything then it obeys the more general universal rules. So it is once per round.
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Greetings, fellow travellers.
I agree with Are. For the trolls: both claw attacks need to deal damage, then the troll is entitled for extra rend damage (1d6+7).
The question which bothers me: What if an enemy has DR, which is not overcome with the attack(s) which are necessary for being allowed to benefit from the rend ability.
Does the rend ability need to overcome the same DR as the normal - let's stay with the troll - claw attacks? I. e.: enemy has DR5/-; troll hits with claws dealing normal damage, reduced for each claw by 5 for DR and is now able/allowed by the mechanics to use the rend ability. Would that damage from rend be reduced by 5 as well, or would it deal the full amount of 1d6+7?
Same goes for the feat Two Weapon Rend: is the rending considered an additional attack, where you swing your weapon an additional time hitting your adversary, thereby having to overcome DR again, or do you, say twist your weapon inside the already dealt wound for extra hurt, thereby not having to overcome DR (again)?Any ideas?
Ruyan.
I can see arguments either way. I would lean towards having DR apply to the rend damage as well however.
That's opinion btw not necessarily RAW.
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Considering the question about DR ->
James Jacobs wrote about Rendthat:
Rend adds damage to an attack; it's not an attack in and of itself. Just as power attack won't increase sneak attack damage or constrict damage, it won't increase rend damage (although it DOES increase the damage inflicted by the attacks that are necessary to trigger rend in the first place). Rake attacks ARE attacks, so power attack applies there.
Rend kills enough PCs anyway. There's no need to increase its damage, for the same reason there's no reason to tie a machine gun onto a nuclear bomb!
http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/pathfinder/pathfinderR PG/rules/archives/rendPowerAttack&page=1#9
So IMO if rend cannot be increased with power attack is shouldn't also be affected by DR.
If you do not apply DR again to sneak attack you shouldn't also apply again to rend. As James said Rend adds damage to an attack it is not an attack of itself.
thanks a lot!
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"Special attacks: Rend (2 claws, 1d6+7)".
This means that the creature can rend for 1d6+7 damage if it hits with 2 claw attacks.
So: The Troll hits with 2 claw attacks against the same opponent, and thus gets the opportunity to rend once. If it hits with another 2 claw attacks against an opponent during the same round, it can not rend, since it has already done so.
So in the case of a Girallon I'm a little confused. The special attacks line reads:
Special Attacks rend (4 claws, 1d4+6)Does that mean it has to hit with all four claws in a round to receive a rend? If so, why would his rend attack be less effective (has to hit the target 100% more frequently) than a troll's who only has to hit with two attacks? They are relatively equivalent combatants.
Yes, the Girallon would have to hit with all 4 claws in order to rend.
As for why, you'd have to ask the designers. It's presumably to keep it from dealing too much damage; since it has 4 claw attacks, it would usually rend in every full attack if it only needed to hit with 2 claws.
The Troll only has 2 claw attacks, so it also needs to hit with 100% of its claw attacks in order to rend.
As an aside, the 3.5 version of the Girallon did only need to hit with 2 claws to rend, and also had much higher rend damage (as did the 3.5 Troll, for that matter). Rend used to be of the [unwritten] formula (die*2 + STR*1.5), while it now is (die + STR*1.5).
If so, why would his rend attack be less effective (has to hit the target 100% more frequently) than a troll's who only has to hit with two attacks? They are relatively equivalent combatants.
If the Girallon only needed to hit with 2 claws, he would be much MORE effective at rending. Why? Because he'd only have to hit with 2 of his 4 claw attacks; the troll has to hit with 2 of 2 claw attacks. It's true that the probability of hitting with 4 attacks is less than the probability of hitting with 2, given the same attack bonus and target AC, but reducing the Girallon to 2 hits needed would mean that it would be almost guaranteed to rend.