Discipline roll to avoid having something unfortunate happen to Danny Kaye. 4d3 - 3 ⇒ (1, 1, 2, 3) - 3 = 4
Wow. Lucky Danny!
(THIS is why I wish I was actually as clever as the PC's I play, So I could talk myself OUT of trouble as easily as IN!) ;P
Wow. except for super hero games, I don't think I've ever played a game where I had to keep things 'secret' from important NPC's. (And we never really worried too much about the NPC's)
NOW I know what Harry felt like for the first few novels, trying to keep Murphy in the dark! ;P
Smerg, don't you think that was I was describing above, falls into the 'Mundane Effects' category described on page 259 of Your Story?
Smerg, don't you think that was I was describing above, falls into the 'Mundane Effects' category described on page 259 of Your Story?
Okay, I just read through that section and I would have to still say that my original call is correct.
1> Theme and style of Dresden Universe as opposed to Harry Potter Universe. If we were doing Harry Potter then I would say this is fine as a mundane effect. Dresden books have plenty of wizards/mages but you don't see them doing 'tricks' to fancy up clothing, set tables, or decorate a Christmas Tree. I might allow such a thing with a trickster fey using glamour but that would be more 'illusion' then reality.
2> Mundane Effects mentions things like 'lighting' a room which has no real difference in our world then what usually can be done by hitting a light switch. Even this level of effect the last sentence states can be charged a fate point if it alleviates or removes an Aspect from a scene. A spell that turns a person's hair green might be a 'gag' and not really 'harm' the person but it still is 'changing' them (BTW it is also a violation of the Second Law: Never Transform Another). It may 'add color' to the scene but the person receiving the spell is entitled to the full defense against magic as if it was 'hostile' spell turning them into a toad. The person receiving the spell can't tell what your spell's effect is going to be, they just instinctively defend themselves. Unless you explain ahead of time and the person agrees to receive the spell then they will always be considered to resisting. The opposite side of this is that when you accept a spell, you can't choose at the last second to change your mind because the spell isn't the one you agreed to receive. Lesson, do not receive spells from people you don't fully trust.
3> The section on Mundane Effects states that they 'rarely require a roll or cost any stress'. If you want your own glass to frost over showing your emotions then I'll allow as Harry sometimes loses control of his emotions and has small smolders of flame occur around him. If you want to turn another player's wine blue then that is going to push from colour to an effect that I will have to consider at least charging you stress or a roll depending on how close to 'harmful' the effect becomes. 'Harm' is not strictly damage but can be a tag which is essentially a minor curse (like having someone's nose be 50% larger which won't harm them but will gain them ridicule from others).
At the moment you have spent all 8 of your allowable refresh; so, you will have to choose option 1 for the moment if you want Sarah to hack the camera feeds and give you information on what she can see. At the first milestone we reach, you can decide on how you want to readjust your character and whether you want to consider option 2. Last, please make a Contacts roll to see what 'tip offs' you can access through Monoc Securities.
Thanks Smerg... I did not catch that the page went over to page 12 until just now.
Yeah I will look at doing that when the opportunity presents itself.
Okay, Smerg, I see what you're saying. I probably would have ruled it a mundane effect (in this case) as long as it didn't cause any social stress or consequence, but I follow you.
Since Conan would be fairly familiar with the ROM (his mother does run the place) are there any easy-to-get-to spots suitable for some quick, uninterrupted divination thaumaturgy?
Okay, Smerg, I see what you're saying. I probably would have ruled it a mundane effect (in this case) as long as it didn't cause any social stress or consequence, but I follow you.
Since Conan would be fairly familiar with the ROM (his mother does run the place) are there any easy-to-get-to spots suitable for some quick, uninterrupted divination thaumaturgy?
Sure. Just off to the side of the lobby is an employee door. You take that door and you have a short corridor that leads to a flight of stairs. The stairs lead down a level to where there is a break room, common locker area, and several work labs. Beyond the work labs are personal offices for various employees with amount of work space assigned based upon tenure and position.
Most nights there would be some people working late but on a Friday night with a gala going on upstairs it is less likely that there will be any but a few college undergrads doing co-op work and hoping to score left overs from the gala before hitting the bars tonight.
Your mom will give you a permanent guest pass to the employee area but you would have to 'hex' any doors to 'zap' the locks on the work labs and offices.
can you review the game scene time thing in game terms again; am thinking about fate points and how long rolls last; like for a scene; and how long before we get a fate point back if we spend one; I only have one so want to use it wisely.
Just a reminder DM Barcus / Munroe that you have the option before the stealth roll is finalized to invoke aspects to help you.
You could either invoke your own aspects, invoke a companion's aspects, or try to invoke an opponent's aspects.
For example, Munroe is a 'Savvy Retired Cop'. You could invoke by spending a Fate Point to get a +2 to your roll.
For example, Pernilla is 'An Agent of Monoc Securities' and would be watching what you are doing to make sure that you don't make any foolish mistakes. Again, you spend a Fate Point to invoke the aspect.
For example, you could guess that the people you were dealing with were '____________' (fill in the blank with something like reading the newspaper or some other factor that you think might reduce their attention skills). You spend a Fate Point and make your 'guess' on something that an opponent might have as a problem to your hearing them. If you are reasonably close then the GM will usually take the Fate Point and give you the advantages of 'invoking'.
For example, you can also make a declaration on the setting. You could make a statement on the nature of security doors ('they build them thick enough an elephant could be lurking behind them'), make a roll on a skill like Burglary which is related to knowing how security doors would help or hinder (it doesn't have to be burglary as someone could use a skill like craftsmanship or scholarship to obtain similar information) the usage of a skill. If the skill roll is good enough then you generate a 'tag'. The first 'tag' generated in this way can be 'tagged' for free (a good deal when you want to save on a Fate Point).
Thank you Smerg.
It's starting to make sense now, (And I KNEW I had read that there was a way to invoke a tag for free!) ;P
Thank you Smerg.
It's starting to make sense now, (And I KNEW I had read that there was a way to invoke a tag for free!) ;P
It is all good.
I'm learning the system like everyone else. It is actually one of the reasons that I decided to do this as a PbP. I'm a big fan of Dresden books and I was interested in actually playing the FATE system after having read a few rule books with the system in it.
I am thinking that FATE would play really well in a Star Wars game having read the Starblazers RPG book. Oh, well, I'm doing d20 Saga system Star Wars right now and it is working well.
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If we were all more familiar with the rules then I wouldn't have gone through all the options that Munroe has at the moment. I just don't want someone feeling that they got 'messed' up because they didn't understand their options under the rules.
Bad dice rolls happen in FATE like in any games.
The difference in FATE is that you have a limited ability to affect the outcome.
am noticing that like most games; perception is everything, dont notice much; cant do much, which makes that skill very heavily weighted.
am noticing that like most games; perception is everything, dont notice much; cant do much, which makes that skill very heavily weighted.
Personally, I think the system is a bit broader then just 'one' skill.
I will agree that Dresden Files is a mystery/adventure game. This type of game usually has a set up or discovery section followed by a conflict section.
During the discovery section of the game there is a need for a variety of skills to gather information but it doesn't have to be alertness/perception. Most of the characters in the group are not maxed out on alertness and have been using other skills to gain information.
Lore is a form of 'alertness' for supernatural events and a couple of characters have gained information on events through the Lore skill.
Munroe uses Alertness but he is a human former police officer. His big skill is his Investigation skill which he has stunts that help him and he rolled very well on the skill to speed up his ability to gather information.
Pernilla has a special power which allows her to indicate events to a certain extent which is different then straight Alertness. She was also working a contact/aspect to get usage of the Scholarship (Computer Use) skill to help her search the museum (the ability of the contact and roll were not as good as Munroes which is why it has taken her longer then Munroe to obtain similar information).
Aximeus's Top Skills are;
Weapons 5
Might 4
Endurance 4
Presence 3
Athletics 3
Fists 2
Guns 2
Intimidation 2
This means he is really good at what he does which is fight things. In the sample example I had above, Aximeus nearly took down a Troll in one hit and was fairly certain to do it in two hits.
I'll be very surprised if any of others in the group can repeat that level of combat skill.
With Zombies and Trolls very close to rampaging through the Museum there are likely going to be people that are going need your help shortly.
This is where having an Aspect like 'Making Your Business, My Business' can be useful. If one of them gets into trouble, they can spend a fate point (if they have a reasonable explanation like getting knocked by a Zombie through a table loaded with deserts) to make a declaration, spend a fate point, and add you into the combat.
Part two is coming quick and I'm sure Aximeus is going to be doing some stomping.
thats cool; was thinking since I didnt notice anyone at the gala but diedre I was pretty much out of it.
Invoking Aspects.
Invoking Aspects is immediate. You can do it as a reaction to a dice roll that you have already made.
Now, the presence of Aspects can have various lengths for purposes of 'tagging'.
The aspects that characters have are considered 'permanent'. You can change and develop your personality; so, these can change and grow but you always have the ability to tag them and opponents always have the ability to tag your aspects if they can 'figure' them out.
This often explains why 'Masterminds' will send a few squads of chumps against heroes with various weapons or minor plans. The 'Mastermind' is watching the player's responses to things to determine the player's aspects. A Mastermind with a half dozen of fate points can cause great calamity for players.
The aspects that you find on buildings are often call 'scene' aspects. The aspects are only available when the players are in the same area as the item or object with the aspect. Some of these aspects don't change much like Castle Loma might have an aspect 'hidden doors'. The building would need to have a major architecture overhaul to remove that aspect. Another aspect might be 'dark shadows' which can be 'removed' with the presence of light.
Sometimes these aspects will be obvious and sometimes they may be 'hidden' requiring a player to do something to discover them (a 'trapped floor' requires some sort of skill roll or an encounter with the traps to discover). Walking into a warehouse filled with shelves of museum antiques would likely have some sort of aspect like 'expensive merchandise' or 'very breakable'. There also might be an aspect for the rows of shelves that might come toppling down. [ed: A couple of hints on the upcoming Trolls in the Acquisition Room scene.]
The last type of aspect is 'temporary' and will expire after a limited amount of time. If you douse someone with gasoline, then they are 'flammable' until they can remove the gasoline. Start aiming a gun at someone and you have them 'in your sight' until you shoot, change your target, or stop aiming. These type of aspects are 'created' by actions of the player or opponents. If you have a shelf dropped on you then the dropping the shelf on you is the maneuver and 'trapped' is a tag that can be used by someone until you can fix your situation.
I hope that helps clear things up.
Yes, thank you.
May I say, I think that it merely the systems use of different terms that is (still) confusing us. You examples above is nothing that any of this group of players wouldn't do, but actually making the system hinge on 'aspects' and 'tags' etc, forces the players to think more theatrically/storytelly than the 'I hit it with my sword, what do you mean it's still moving?' style of play. ;)
(Again, not that any of this group does that, but it IS an effective tool for encouraging the storytelling style!) :D
Playing an illusionist, I am trying to figure out exactly what I AM going to do in a fight, because I SURE am not going to try to go toe-to-toe with trolls! :P
Fortunately, I read LOT of fiction, (not just Dresden Files!) and comic books. So I have a few ideas,... ;P
Yes, thank you.
May I say, I think that it merely the systems use of different terms that is (still) confusing us. You examples above is nothing that any of this group of players wouldn't do, but actually making the system hinge on 'aspects' and 'tags' etc, forces the players to think more theatrically/storytelly than the 'I hit it with my sword, what do you mean it's still moving?' style of play. ;)(Again, not that any of this group does that, but it IS an effective tool for encouraging the storytelling style!) :D
Playing an illusionist, I am trying to figure out exactly what I AM going to do in a fight, because I SURE am not going to try to go toe-to-toe with trolls! :P
Fortunately, I read LOT of fiction, (not just Dresden Files!) and comic books. So I have a few ideas,... ;P
Yeah, I like the FATE points as a combination of 'beanies' (beanies common term in Savage Worlds are used for various stunts and re-rolls) and 'alignment' system.
Traditional 'alignment' systems like in DnD tell you that you are 'supposed' to play a certain way but you don't really suffer much penalty if you don't (except for maybe Clerics and Paladins and then it is often up to the GM to 'create' a penalty).
It is also in many ways better to the WoD humanity and virtue systems where they really only have a downward direction of needing to do more to be considered worse then you currently are. There really isn't a 'reflection' of this new level of 'greater evil' then you are listed as having 'fewer' dots until you become a NPC. Star Wars often in their Dark Side point systems is much like this.
CoC (Call of Cthuhlu) is like Star Wars and WoD but you do pick up actual 'semi-permanent' or 'permanent' afflictions of insanity for going down the well.
I like how FATE rewards for following the alignment choices you made and forces you to pay a penalty if you choose to act 'against' your nature. It also gives you the opportunity to change those things that are part of your nature over time in the way you choose.
Okay, I've started Thread B where I'm shifting Pernilla and Munroe to for the moment while they do the 'Antique Demolition Derby'.
I'm leaving the rest of the group for the moment in Thread A where it looks like we have the 'Zombie Gala' or 'A Hopping Good Time'.
I've got to take my dog to the park before she has a total conniption but I'll try and write a post on Combat talking on Consequences and Concessions after I return.
Well, my intent with the first circle was to have it as close as possible without it actually being in sight of everyone. Danny went off before I was really ready, so it sounds like a moot point, now. There certainly won't be time to do a second circle to contain the stage.
I'm beginning to see why not having the Sight is such a severe disadvantage for a wizard. There simply wasn't time for me to go to a private place and do some divination.
I think I'm going to have to switch plans to do some earth evocation on that stage to trap/stall the Jiang Shi until some of the innocents can get out of the way.
I've got a few topics to cover here when it comes to combat.
1> Ending combat. (which I plan to talk on first)
2> Initiative. (that is pretty brief and from my prior example of combat should be pretty clear).
3> Damage and Consequences. (some of this has been discussed in previous combat example but I also want to discuss the topic of healing).
Ending Combat
Not all combats are 'to the death' or 'to the mat'. Some combats will go to this extreme but it often should be clear whether you want to go to this extreme.
This is something that is a big change for people coming from a background with more 'traditional' DnD or WoW backgrounds. In those games you will be told that you don't have to 'fight' everything but most of the time you will be in a 'level appropriate' contest where fighting is encouraged. If you get into a non-level appropriate situation and attempt to flee then likely you will just get chased and killed anyways (unless you are Hunter in WoW and play dead ;> ).
On the other hand if you are familiar with games like Burning Empires or Mouse Guard then you will be familiar with the idea of Concessions. Concessions is an attempt to end a combat more or less on your terms instead of being a strictly 'to the death'.
This is how Harry often 'lives' to fight another day when he is out classed and jumped by an opponent that he isn't fully prepared to fight.
The details;
- When you offer a concession, you lose. You choose to offer a concession because the other option is likely to be 'taken out' (which is just one short hop to dead). This is the hero getting their butt kicked and then choosing to collapse the mine. The hero can crawl their way out with some cuts and bruises but the Big Bad didn't get to eat them in this encounter.
- The group has to agree to the concession that it is an acceptable alternative. This is just to prevent the 'bang' you're dead and have the other player get up ten seconds latter saying, 'they got better'. The group has to agree the concession you are offering is going to in some way 'hurt' your character almost as much as if you had died. James Bond might survive the crash of his super spy car but the car is a write off and he can't get another super spy car for a while.
- The concession should be a 'clear and decisive disadvantage'. Harry messes up with a Red Court villain then he might live but one of his friends is getting turned into a vampire. Everyone understands that something is on the line and has been sacrificed. There are no 'free' get out of jail cards.
More Detail;
- The concession could include a consequence of at least moderate or worse. Note: you can not offer a concession to avoid a roll that has already been made. You can not attempt to 'downgrade' a consequence that has been determined by offering a concession. You have to offer the concession prior to the roll.
- The concession could create a future difficulty. This is one of the better usages where you let the villain steal what they want or possibly kidnap a close friend or contact. The player will need to go through a future story scene to recover the missing item.
- The character can create a debt via an Aspect that can be compelled to get them to do something. This is often having the 'police' or 'army' show up in time to 'scare' off the villain before the hero is finished. The hero will 'owe' a set of favours to the group in future.
Cashing Out at the End of a Conflict
When a conflict ends by violence or by Concession you get to 'Cash Out'. Every consequence that you have received in the conflict is worth 1 Fate Point. If you finish a fight with a Mild, Moderate, and a Severe consequence then you just earned 3 Fate Points. You do still have to deal with those consequences which can take many days of gaming during which villains may choose to prey on those 'bruised' or 'cracked' ribs.
Thx Again Smerg.
I have to say that the more I learn about this system, the more I like the way it's (intended) to work! Guess I'll find out soon enough! :D
I didn't want to be the first to kick off a fight, but what the hey! ;P
I'm just going to presume that the 'band' is now in attack mode! And of course I managed to get the girls in the middle of it.
one Initiative roll coming up! ;)
I don't think that there are Initiative rolls, just static amounts.
Ah.
Ah-ha.
(I need to go back and re-read the previous example!) :P
Initiative
There are a couple of alternative systems for Initiative listed but I'm just going to stick to the basic system.
I'll use in order of highest to lowest;
- Physical Combat - Alertness with Athletics used to help break ties.
- Mental Combat - Discipline with Conviction used to help break ties.
- Social Combat - Empathy with Presence used to help break ties.
- Special Powers may modify this order.
We might later revisit this list and change it if we feel it isn't doing things the way we want.
If one group has 'surprise' then they can be moved to the 'top' of the initiative order.
A person may also 'hold' or 'delay' their action. If they do that then their position in the Initiative order is permanently altered to the point where they acted.
Taking Action
Basic choices when it comes your turn to act are;
- Attack - try to hit someone
- Maneuver - try to develop an advantage in combat
- Block - set up a defense against some sort of attack
- Sprint - try to move somewhere
- Full Defense - put all your effort into dodging.
Normally, you can take one action on your turn. Some special powers can allow for a supplemental action.
Combat is 'abstract' in Dresden RPG compared to Star Wars Saga or DnD 4e. A place is marked into areas. For example a standard medium size parking lot might be two areas or the Aniquities Warehouse might be two areas. Anyone in the same area can interact at melee distance with each other. Anyone one area away can use simple ranged weapons. Anyone at more than one area away can use firearms.
Attack - You choose the appropriate skill, check your range is a match, roll your skill, compare the opponents defense, and determine results. Variation on that is if you want to hit more than one person with your 'action' is to divide your skill into packets. Each packet has to have at least a +1 Skill assigned to it. This allows the person to hit several weak fighters in a single round (Aximeus verses a gang of regular humans would be an example since his skill is so high that he doesn't need to fight them one at a time).
Maneuver - Any time you are looking to develop an aspect on an opponent or preparing a better defense for your self then you are doing a maneuver. You describe the action and may need to make a roll as you try to find information out on an opponent or move them to a place that you will later be able to 'tag' for an extra bonus.
Block - Is when you set up a general defense but you still need to give some specifications. Grabbing a bat and preparing to block people tossing grenades is fine but if someone shoots a flamethrower at you then your bat block is not going to help you.
Sprint - You can move normally one area as part of your action but you take a -1 to any skill roll that you make. You can also choose to make moving your full action. Any attempt like this might be opposed by enemies in your area which is why you'll need to make a skill roll to get away. The skill will depend upon the situation and type of combat.
Full Defense - If you take no action but to protect yourself then you get +2 bonus to your defenses (as good as tagging an aspect without needing to spend a Fate Point). Good if you only need to hang on for a round or two till help arrives but not a good long term solution to combat.
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Another way to handle the difference in ability could be to have an Aspect related to using the Breath attack like Banshee Wail which would allow you to spend a fate point for a +2 or a re-roll. This would allow you to buy the skill at a lower level and then use Fate points to pump the ability.
The third way would be (I'm borrowing some rules from Starblazers) is to call the Banshee Wail a 'Personal Artifact'. You would spend 1 point of refresh and be given 3 selections of things that you could do as additional capabilities with the breath attack (this allows the Gadgetry rules to apply). One of those choices could be 'Craftmanship' which would give a +1 to general usage of the 'Banshee Wail'. You might also choose to get an 'Alternate Usage' which might be something like allowing you to pick locks, shove someone back, radar sense, or anything that is a defined function related to the usage of the power (this would allow you to develop a set of 'super hero' style of stunts that you could do with the wail rather than just attack with it). You could select an 'Upgrade' which would allow you to claim a +2 bonus (instead of the +1 of Craftmanship) but the circumstance would have to be more narrow like using the Wail underwater or to attack glass and ceramic objects. The last option for the wail would be 'Special Effect' which could be used if you wanted the wail to work instead of on sound on the principles of some other energy like 'Spirit' (the benefit being that it could attack a ghost while sound would have no effect on a ghost).
Each point of refresh invested in the Wail would give you 3 selections from the above list of choices. Also, as a 'personal artifact' (which still needs to be 'named' in an aspect in some way) you could use it with a Fate Point expenditure to improvise 'stunts' on the fly. This covers all the 'odd usages' that 'super heroes or supernatural beings' develop for their powers that they don't 'carry' around with them. You might for example be trapped in a safe and spend a Fate Point along with tagging the aspect to use the wail on the tumblers to 'smash' them since the safe was too tough to break directly with your scream. Another example might having found out that you are fighting a giant brain blob in a previous scene, you might 'invent' a special frequency to work on the brain blob. You would need to make some sort of 'performance' or 'discipline' (depending on what skill you tie to your breath attack for such 'inventions') skill check and spend a Fate point.
The above options are not 'mutually exclusive' and you can can pick and combine them together or 'develop' your banshee wail over time by adding Refresh points to develop the capabilities over time.
I may combine all of your suggestions over time.
1) I'll apply Scream 3 / Weapons 1 rather than Weapons 3 now.
2) My High Aspect is Banshee Bartender. I had assumed I could invoke the Banshee half of that to power up the scream. If it isn't specific enough to do that let me know and I'll consider devoting my last aspect slot for that.
3) I really like the idea of being able to expand a series of abilities based on her scream. Let's leave that as an open door for development in the future.
Smerg-
1) I had considered taking channeling tied to sonic, but maybe the personal artifact suggestion works better? Either way, these are an option.
2) The toughness / recovery / speed chains are all possibilties
3) Spirit Form. Banshee's are often ghostly in stories. Maybe we'll need it someday.
4) Spider Walk. Just because it is creepy.
5) World Walker. Don't really need this as part of a group, but if the story required it at some point it is an option.
6) The Sight. Part of being an oracle.
7) Improvement of Cassandr'a Tears.
Obviously she won't gain all of those things, but it gives you a broad field to play with. I'm open to other suggestions of course.
...
Those ideas all sound reasonable. You might combine the Cassandra's Tears with some sort of 'Death Sight' though Permilla already has that sort of 'special' sense.
It really depends on how Necromantic you want your Banshee has to what abilities are displayed. More a 'dead thing' will be the ability to phase through walls as a spirit while more of a 'siren thing' will be less of those sorts of abilities.
Smerg;
What do the 'band' members look like? ;)
I have the ONE drawback to this system,... TOO many options! ;P
Seriously, I have a few things that I can (or want) the PC to do, just trying to figure out how to make it into a 'maneuver' or aspect tag.
Hmm,... Give me a few minutes,... :)
Smerg;
What do the 'band' members look like? ;)I have the ONE drawback to this system,... TOO many options! ;P
Seriously, I have a few things that I can (or want) the PC to do, just trying to figure out how to make it into a 'maneuver' or aspect tag.
Hmm,... Give me a few minutes,... :)
Band member pic, Nice!
Post posted, my first attempt at tagging an opponent with a location aspect! :)
So, just to clarify,
Danny did a 'maneuver' as his action,
The maneuver was successful, granting the condition 'Messy Stage' Or 'Cluttered Area' giving a +2 bonus,...
My question is, do I still have to DO something with that? (Before it can be useful?) As in NEXT turn Tag the band with that aspect as part of my action?
Or is the band currently 'trapped' on the stage, requiring an Athletics roll before they can move?
So, just to clarify,
Danny did a 'maneuver' as his action,
The maneuver was successful, granting the condition 'Messy Stage' Or 'Cluttered Area' giving a +2 bonus,...My question is, do I still have to DO something with that? (Before it can be useful?) As in NEXT turn Tag the band with that aspect as part of my action?
Or is the band currently 'trapped' on the stage, requiring an Athletics roll before they can move?
Breaking the action down.
You made a 'Declaration' that the Band area was 'Messy' or 'Cluttered'. I thought this was a reasonable declaration and went with it. That created an Aspect for the scene.
You were the first person to do the declaration; so, there was no cost to you in Fate Points. Anyone else wanting to use that Aspect will need to spend a Fate Point.
That was a 'free action' to do essentially.
Then you used the aspect to get a +2 on your roll to increase the level of effect for the Jiang Shi to move around. It is treated as a type of Block that they will need to do a contest to get past.
That was your action.
Having Speed 1 you could also move 1 area but that would leave Min and Lin vulnerable and you want to avoid that.
Cool,
That's actually exactly what I was trying to do!
(I love it when things actually work out!) ;D
Thx!
Did you want us to post in order of initiative, or just post and let you sort out the mess?
Also, if the pieces of paper are written in Chinese (depending on dialect) there's a good chance that Conan would be able to read them. This sounds like a place for a scholarship roll to make a declaration that they're written in Mandarin, except I don't see how that would help in combat. (I can see lots and lots of potential uses for it outside of combat, assuming we can retrieve them mostly intact.)
Just for clarity, exactly how many band members are there right now?
Did you want us to post in order of initiative, or just post and let you sort out the mess?
Also, if the pieces of paper are written in Chinese (depending on dialect) there's a good chance that Conan would be able to read them. This sounds like a place for a scholarship roll to make a declaration that they're written in Mandarin, except I don't see how that would help in combat. (I can see lots and lots of potential uses for it outside of combat, assuming we can retrieve them mostly intact.)
Just for clarity, exactly how many band members are there right now?
Being PbP I don't have a big problem with people just posting.
That said, Deirdre and the Jiang-Shi are up next. After they go, I'm not sure it really matters too much the individual order though a person can always 'hold' their action to make sure something like one person charges into another person's line of fire.
After the battle it might be possible to do some reading of the characters but they are of a stylized 'older' variation. It would make reading them with the zombie's heads moving around as easy as you and me trying to read Beowulf in the original text while stuck to a dog chasing squirrels in a park. You can identify the language and know it's old writing but the ability to 'understand' has a Great difficulty.
There are five band members. Some time after Nathaniel joined the band a fifth person joined the group (likely the source of the original confusion that got him in the door).
Lol; I agree; but I am figuring my toon knows very little about youi; so to me with my code; is about risk; more risk to the people up here from getting killed by the zombies; than you guys; thus at worst; two deaths of you guys compared to hundreds of deaths of the movers and shakers here in the Gala; so was a numbers game; and if you read the Dresden files; the Zombies in there were double tuff; could run 30 or 40 miles and hour; inhumanly strong and completely controlled by the mage, but needed to listen to the drum to stay in control. I think a zombie is a match for a troll; but is all narrative so in game terms I have no idea; would be in your fight hehe if you would have invoked my aspect.
@Aximeus > Ohh you dirty bastard! :P j/k
No- I figured 2 PCs vs 5 trolls needed more help than 3 PCs vs 5 zombies, but I deliberately didn't communicate all of that IC. You not trusting my oracle influenced vision enough to act on it plays into Cassandra's Tears perfectly. :D
lol I am all excited about where this story is going; go to the pbp and see Smerg's.... as a new post and ARGH! it is the star wars game; doh
Bump! Hoping to get Thread B some Smerg love. Need to know how well that troll got stabbed.
Isn't that a spoiler? Are we allowed to know things like that?
Smerg-Thx for the info (from the Thread A page)
I have a couple of questions/clarifications;
-Do all of those rules apply (strength of spell, mental stress) when using 'Fae Glamours'? (As opposed to Spirit Evocation) I know that my roll is based on Deceit, isn't that how 'strong/convincing' it is? (IE=Str of spell is from Deceit, as opposed to Conviction?) If not, I'll need to re-think my skills! ;) (I ask because I thought at one point someone said that my glamours would require no mental stress? I'm probably remembering wrong.) :)
[EDIT: I think I understand, my Deceit IS the 'str' I can cast a Veil/Glamour, but my Conviction STILL limits what I can do without paying more Stress boxes!] ;)
[EDIT: Did you mean that I have to declare how strong I wanted my spell to be first? As in 'I want to cast a Veil 5' or simply say 'I want to cast a veil' and roll to see how strong it ends up being?]
-So, if I understand everything correctly; With my roll of 6 I can cast a Veil 6, which hampers me with a Veil 3 as well. The 'cost' is 1 mental stress to cast, +1 stress for every shift over 3 (which is my conviction skill) So to cast a veil 6 costs me 4 mental stress total.
Plus Column- The girls and I are now covered by a Veil 6, which is good!
Neg Column- I just max'd out my 'mental stress' boxes. (I think that's bad?)
I can either take a consequence later (If I need to, say to cast another Veil) or take a minor one now and save that last mental stress box?
Neg Column- The running water is going to wash away my spell if I stay here. So standing still is NOT a long term option! ;P
I was kind of wondering when the running water would pop up! ;)
Right, with Glamour you have the option to use either the skill of Discipline or Deceit to 'cast' the spell but your 'will' or Conviction determines what it cost you.
Glamour is like a variation on Channel but dedicated to Fae magical effects. The advantage of Glamour is that it is not limited to Evocation effects but can do both Glamour and Thaumaturgy as long as it is in the Glamour (illusions and veils) catagory.
You do need to say you want a Veil 5 and then you roll to find out the result. This is how you can decide whether you want to have a spell that will mentally tax you out or kill you.
Your roll determines if there is either Fallout or Backlash. What this means is that you decide that you want a Veil 6 but you rolled a 4. You are short 2 points of strength.
To make up the 2 points you can either Backlash or Fallout. Backlash is when you ground the extra energy as extra mental stress to you and Fallout is when you ground the energy into the environment. Given the choice, why would you choose Backlash over Fallout? When you take Backlash and those points of extra mental stress, the shifts still contribute to the strength of the spell. When you do Fallout, those points are removed from the strength of the spell you were attempting.
If you rolled a 4 and wanted a Veil 6 then you could either take an additional 2 Mental Stress or reduce the spell to Veil 4 and inflict 2 points of Fallout on the environment. To prevent 'total' chaos wizards who call a spell level that is impossible to reach like 100 and just attempt to 'blow up' the world with Fallout there is a maximum level of shifts that you can attempt to summon.
The GM spends any points of Fallout on the scene as they see fit.
Glamours are not spells. They're just another use for the Deceit skill (or Discipline). That's why it's good. You can do it all day, every day.
EDIT: One of us is wrong. Since they would of said if Glamours had the same costs as spellcasting, I'm going to assume it's you. Wait, no, it's in the Faerie Magic category, so who knows?
Glamours are not spells. They're just another use for the Deceit skill (or Discipline). That's why it's good. You can do it all day, every day.
I'm not sure if I would go with that interpretation.
My reasons are;
1> Unlimited usage makes it more powerful then say the 2 point power cost. Channel Spirit can do veils and illusions is 2 points but has offensive usages which is why it is limited to evocation only effects.
2> The books don't support 'unlimited' usage. Even powerful fae show limits and don't use power without some sort of concern for the impact upon them. There are several examples in the books of Harry interacting with the glamours as ectoplasm. Water washes out darkness of the Myrk from Hobs.
3> I prefer consistency in game systems. If the game has built a particular game system and set it function a particular way then I don't usually like having a hundred variation rules. This means that all 'magic' whatever the source will generally follow the same set of principles.
So, how does a fae remain invisible all day if it has to cast a veil? If the veil is equal or less then the fae's conviction then it is a single mental stress. It is as rough on the fae as asking someone to take a trip to the corner store and back. If the fae didn't have to do the veil then it wouldn't but it's not going to complain on the effort.
If the fae tries to go 'big' then it will be stressing the limits of its magic. This is why fae generally don't try to disappear houses but they can if they have to.
I see your point, I just don't know if it's right. It's just that the entries for Glamours/Greater Glamours don't say a thing about how you make the veils/seemings beyond that you use either Deceit or Discipline to oppose efforts to discover the veil/seeming. I just assumed that it meant that Glamours just added new uses for those skills, like a more powerful version of those stunts that let you use one skill in place of a different one. Besides, if they worked exactly like spellcasting(use Conviction to determine how powerful it is, roll Discipline to determine whether you control the spell, etc), you'd think they would at least mention Conviction in the Skills Affected line. Hence, why I assumed it wasn't using the spellcasting rules.
(Also, all fey that only use the powers in the book can't make a house invisible without using thaumaturgy. Even Greater Glamours can only put a veil over a small group of people at most.)
I agree with you that the section on Glamour and Greater Glamour in the rulebook doesn't give many details on how these powers were 'written' by the authors.
It could be that they were written to be a 'free' stunts that just used the Discipline or Deceit skill to determine the effect.
Unfortunately, that leads to more 'problems' then it solves. An average little person who needs to 'hide' would have Deceit 1 and Conviction 1. If it was strictly roll and check the effect then the 'swing' on this Veil would be from -3 to 5. This would lead to quite a few little people being spotted all over the place.
The way that I have suggested would have the Veil 1 work which will hide the little people from most casual people that don't go looking for the fae since most people have Alertness Mediocre +0 and if doing something else this is a supplementary action making it -1 (that means the person would have to get very lucky to get close to their maximum and score a +3 on the dice to exceed the Veil strength). Further, the little person if in trouble could 'push' their meagre talent to a Veil 2 or 3 but just accept some backlash if the dice are not favourable as they become tired from the effort of fooling humans.
Of course, given the growing popularity of Dresden Files RPG (I've noticed the chatter is going up and up on various web sites along with things like Strands of Fate), I fully expect some author or authors to release splat books with 'new' rules for things like Fae and other items in the game.
Unfortunately, my expectation is that this is going to end up a bit like what happened to Ars Magica. One central system with dozens of hodge podge subset rules bolted on to the core as each author came along.
Anyways, after this museum set of scenes, we can look at this further and see if the approach that I have suggested for running this really works (basically following the existing book section in spell casting for Veils and magical Blocks) or another way is really warranted and what are the options.
This would lead to quite a few little people being spotted all over the place.
They'd usually be on a completely different plane of existence. No one would see them because they wouldn't even be here. (Besides, they'd probably just use Stealth to hide in a bush of something if they do come to this plane.)
The way that I have suggested would have the Veil 1 work which will hide the little people from most casual people that don't go looking for the fae since most people have Alertness Mediocre +0 and if doing something else this is a supplementary action making it -1 (that means the person would have to get very lucky to get close to their maximum and score a +3 on the dice to exceed the Veil strength). Further, the little person if in trouble could 'push' their meagre talent to a Veil 2 or 3 but just accept some backlash if the dice are not favorable as they become tired from the effort of fooling humans.
Or the little faerie uses the +4 bonus to Stealth from Diminutive Size and maybe one of the scene's aspects to get another +2 if things are looking bad and no one will ever see them even if their Stealth is only Average. Sure, it would be seen if it was in an empty room, but why would it be in a completely empty room anyway?
What I'm saying is, the problems you say would be caused by my interpretation aren't really problems because the things that aren't good at Glamours wouldn't be using Glamours to hide in the first place. Either they'd just hide, or they don't care enough to hide what they are even if they were competent at veils.
EDIT: Sorry if this comes off badly, by the way. I guess I am a bit of a rules lawyer. Then again, the OOC thread for a game that's in a new system for everyone is just about the best place you can get into a silly rules argument as long as it stays civil.
Heh. this reminds me of some discussions I had with my friends WAY back in DnD1E. :) (Some of those original spells were VERY interpretable!)
I'm going to leave it to you guys. I have tried to find a copy of the rules book, but they are MIA (Or O-U-T) And I refuse to pay good money for a PDF only. (I'm a big fan of hard copy!) ;P So I have nothing to reference but the tidbits on the DFRPG website.
Couple of questions/things for consideration.
-As much as I would LIKE my 'spells' to be 'free', I do see how this would be a little bent/broken. Other wise what would keep me from veiling myself ALL the time?
-Do veils work on cameras? Or only on people? (I know I could rob a jewelry store by veiling myself from the clerks, but would the cameras still pick up my shoplifting?)
-Can glamours be used offensively? All I can think of is making an illusion of a cave or ceiling collapsing. (Or an illusion of a really big, flaming sword!) Would a 'hit' with one of these cause mental stress? maybe knocking a person out due to shock? Is this even covered in the rules?
-Maybe the 'Same' rules apply as far as casting, but with a cost difference? Example, maybe your Conviction is counted as being 1 higher for purposes of fae Glamours? OR your mental stress for casting is always at -1 cost to you? (giving you a free +1 shift of power would be the game term I suppose) (This is only for those who take the 'Fae Glamour' power, of course! As opposed to being a changeling with evocation) This might account, in game terms, of why it at least seems like the fae are always using invisibility. (Even though I also see side that says half the time the fae are just REALLY good at hiding, no magic involved!)
-I do recall reading on the DFRPG website that Fae can cast spells without harming the environment, which means when they 'ground' they don't short circuit electronics and such. (I'll try to find the exact page and link it, so as not to confuse the issue with my spotty memory!)
-So, (presuming for the moment that all basic casting rules apply to Danny) I must declare how strong I want my veil to be (Veil 3) with any modifiers (larger area, +2 shift = Veil 5) Then I roll (say for 4 total) I can either take an extra point of stress for the extra point I'm low, (to cast a Veil 5) Or cast the spell as a lower lvl (cast a Veil 4) or, what? the spell doesn't happen? (I suppose I still take the original point of mental stress for trying?)
BTW- I appreciate all the help, and conversation! :)
EDIT: Sorry if this comes off badly, by the way. I guess I am a bit of a rules lawyer. Then again, the OOC thread for a game that's in a new system for everyone is just about the best place you can get into a silly rules argument as long as it stays civil.
Definitely.
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Personally, saying that they fae could be Dimmuntive Size is going out of the 'zone' on the discussion of what a person is spending points for what ability they are getting.
I am not even sure the Refresh value on that particular power is 'correct' since a +4 to Stealth is the equivalent to tagging two aspects. You get an additional +2 to Alertness and Investigation. While your physical damage is limited, I wouldn't be surprised that some min-maxer wouldn't use it as a cheap way to make the 'Leprechaun Wizard from Hell'.
In a similar way saying that Little People are Fae so they wouldn't bother with Veils because they are on another plane of existance (inside the Nevernever) doesn't help anything or stay within the novels with Toot-toot and all the fellow fae that seem to come out of the woodwork when Pizza is available.
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So, I would like to stick to what Glamours and Greater Glamours gives compared to the Refresh cost. It is a purchase choice and should fit within the greater mechanics of the system.
Personally, I don't see Glamours as a power going with a straight roll as being a 'good' system.
1> It leaves it far more undefined as to what can and can not be achieved (there is now power bench to properly adjudicate situations). What I mean is that if a player wants to do a seeming of say a rabbit. If you just go with the roll Discipline/Deceit there is a lack of important reference information for the GM to operate upon (distance away, persistence, how real is 'real', how big is 'big').
2> Additionally, as pointed out, the rabbit might one moment seem very real and the next moment be very unreal (dice value going up and down).
3> It is much easier to handle the intersection of the two systems (glamour and spellcasting) if they both operate under the same base. I can then easily determine what is the effect of counter spells.
4> I can allow a player to purchase 'refinements' for the glamour. This allows development of the power because the Greater Glamour is really a 'crock' at an additional 2 refresh. This is even with Greater Glamour allowing True Seemings. Four points of Refresh is more than Evocation or Thaumaturgy. You are in the Seelie Magic or Sponsored magic realm of selection. If the difference on the Veil is just a +2 modifier on your Deceit skill for avoiding people noticing your veil or seeming without an increase in 'capacity'; then it really hasn't done much to increase the power.
I've tried to do this with other 'styles' of magic. Keep some unity of system in how I interpret requests to do things.
Heh. this reminds me of some discussions I had with my friends WAY back in DnD1E. :) (Some of those original spells were VERY interpretable!)
I went and did a one day retro to get back to my 'roots' of THAC0. I was so happy that it was only one day with the several different types of Saving Throws (instead of the three in 3e and Pathfinder) and working out the add and subtract of THAC0. Ugh!
I'm going to leave it to you guys. I have tried to find a copy of the rules book, but they are MIA (Or O-U-T) And I refuse to pay good money for a PDF only. (I'm a big fan of hard copy!) ;P So I have nothing to reference but the tidbits on the DFRPG website.
I had my copy ordered in the spring and I still had to practically break the legs of my local FLGS to get their contact to deliver them the copy.
Couple of questions/things for consideration.
-As much as I would LIKE my 'spells' to be 'free', I do see how this would be a little bent/broken. Other wise what would keep me from veiling myself ALL the time?-Do veils work on cameras? Or only on people? (I know I could rob a jewelry store by veiling myself from the clerks, but would the cameras still pick up my shoplifting?)
- I'm going to figure this first question is more rhetorical.
- This is again where there is a variance between Glamours and Spirit Evocation. A person with Spirit Evocation 'could' do a Jedi Mind Trick and plant a 'suggestion' in a person's brain to ignore them. It would be 'invisibility of the mind'. Glamours are 'physical' illusions as they can be recorded preventing mysterious people getting photgraphed that couldn't otherwise be seen. Now, the reason wizards don't do 'invisibility of the mind' is because it would be a violation of the Third Law to 'not invade the thoughts of another'.
-Can glamours be used offensively? All I can think of is making an illusion of a cave or ceiling collapsing. (Or an illusion of a really big, flaming sword!) Would a 'hit' with one of these cause mental stress? maybe knocking a person out due to shock? Is this even covered in the rules?
- You can't 'attack' with glamours and cause 'direct' pain. You can do 'Blocks' and 'Maneuvers'. I would further say that you could 'Counterspell' other glamours (though that is again going 'off the reservation of what is formally printed in the book'). A 'Block' could cause damage by 'preventing' a person from noticing something important like a truck on a road or a staircase. A 'Maneuver' could cause damage as a person reacted to the image of say a Tiger and ran into some other danger like leaping onto a roadway to avoid a charging bull. You can also reduce choices for a person by 'veiling' doorways or making a section of wall appear to be a doorway.
- With Greater Glamour, I would allow a person to mistake one object for another with the correct rolls like 'drinking' a goblet filled with broken glass as the 'sweetest' wine. You would need the 'True Seeming' aspect to allow the person to interact with the 'wine'.
-so, you can do damage but it won't be as simple or straight forward as shoving a knife between someone's ribs. On the other hand, it will allow you to get close enough with the knife that appears to look like a bunch of flowers to shove the knife into the person.
-Maybe the 'Same' rules apply as far as casting, but with a cost difference? Example, maybe your Conviction is counted as being 1 higher for purposes of fae Glamours? OR your mental stress for casting is always at -1 cost to you? (giving you a free +1 shift of power would be the game term I suppose) (This is only for those who take the 'Fae Glamour' power, of course! As opposed to being a changeling with evocation) This might account, in game terms, of why it at least seems like the fae are always using invisibility. (Even though I also see side that says half the time the fae are just REALLY good at hiding, no magic involved!)
- That would be something to explore but I would rather get a good feel of the current magic system before deciding how much 'tweaking' is balancing and how much 'tweaking' is creating a problem.
-I do recall reading on the DFRPG website that Fae can cast spells without harming the environment, which means when they 'ground' they don't short circuit electronics and such. (I'll try to find the exact page and link it, so as not to confuse the issue with my spotty memory!)-So, (presuming for the moment that all...
I don't know of any 'official' rules for this and I am leery of 'rules' produced by fans and splat book writers (which often have agendas like to sell books or make something 'kwel' that works fine as it is). I would almost be tempted to say that fae normally ground spells through their environment as the fae often have 'residual' effects of their presence (which is enhanced in the Nevernever). It is often a case of what a fae doesn't consider harmful often being 'very bad' for regular humans (books like Summer Knight and Changes having examples of this).
Personally, saying that they fae could be Dimmuntive Size is going out of the 'zone' on the discussion of what a person is spending points for what ability they are getting.
Yeah, the bit about Diminutive Size was because your example hinged something tiny being seen because it was bad at Decieve.
I am not even sure the Refresh value on that particular power is 'correct' since a +4 to Stealth is the equivalent to tagging two aspects. You get an additional +2 to Alertness and Investigation. While your physical damage is limited, I wouldn't be surprised that some min-maxer wouldn't use it as a cheap way to make the 'Leprechaun Wizard from Hell'.
Yeah, and you need to make a Might roll to move anything larger than a paperclip. It could be stopped with a coffee cup.
In a similar way saying that Little People are Fae so they wouldn't bother with Veils because they are on another plane of existance (inside the Nevernever) doesn't help anything or stay within the novels with Toot-toot and all the fellow fae that seem to come out of the woodwork when Pizza is available.
Yeah, and pixies have Decieve at +3, which means it would have a much better chance of actually fooling someone than the ones with +1 you used for an example. I only brought Diminutive Form up in the first place because all the fey I can find in the books are either competent enough at Glamours to trick most of the people most of the time, small and stealthy enough to not get seen in the first place, or enough of a combat monster to not care.
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But, really, I'm not skilled enough at this system yet to offer counterarguments to the rest of your post or to tell which of our interpretations is more balanced. Since you're the GM and I'm just a player that likes arguing over inane things, I cede the point to you and will go try to find how other people have interpreted Glamours.