The optimal party why and how?

[JudasKilled]

The optimal party is unimportant mostly, but for competing dungeons and modules it matters. Assume levels are either 6th level or 10th level with 5 characters. The levels aren't to relevant as far as the classes go, a few get better at certain levels but not to an extent that matters THAT much.

Now let me say that in my mind in competing modules you do need some skills and charisma effects that do not relate to combat where is in a dungeon only setting you can make do without usually. Lets just say for this excercise that the party will need some skills so it more closely reflects an actual campaign. If you would like to list changes based upon COMBAT only please do so under your Standard party. Also for those of you who have played D&D party vs party arenas and etc feel free to share that info below as well.

1)All charecter's have the stats of 18 16 14 14 12 10 + racial's. No non PHB races or templates. I did not include stat gains for 4th/8th.

2)All gear is allowed if you want to go in depth but NO ITEM can cost over 50% of starting wealth. Im not sure on the exact amount offhand but lets just say 6th is 10,000 and 10th is 72,000. If that's not accurate by book lets just assume in this scenario that's what you have.

IMO:
The ideal 5 man party for standard modules and games is as follows:
1)Dwarven/Human Fighter (AC and swarm fighting based)Str:18 Dex:12 Con:18 Int:10 Wis:14/16 Cha: 14/12

2)Human Rouge 3/5 Fighter 3/5 (DPS, caster killing, and relevant skills)
(two weapon fighting, dodge, mobility, disruptive, etc) Str:18 Dex: 16 Con:14 Int:14 Wis: 12 Cha: 10 +2 to str/dex/int would be acceptable.

3)Human Cleric (Heavy Armor prof, cleric goodness, good ac back up melee) Str: 14 Dex: 10: Con 16 Int: 12 Wisdom: 20 Cha: 14

4) Witch (Back up healing, utility, spells, crowd control) Str: 10 Dex: 14 Con:16
Int: 20 Wisdom: 14 Cha: 12 Lots of extra hex, buff/debuff cackle build with slumber.

5)Human Sorcerer (Nukes, spells, social skills)
Str: 10 Dex: 14 Con: 16 Int: 14 Wis: 12 Cha: 20
I would normally prefer wizard but we have no charisma junky, and the party loses little by having a sorcerer as opposed to a wizard.

Competing Combat Party:
1) Witch Elven(Spells, Hexes) Most feats on extra hexes.

2) Witch Human ( Spells,Hexes) Counterspeller, feats based heavily on crowd control and opposing casters.

3) Fighter/Rouge or Monk( DPS Ninja) Mobile disruption/dps, focus on caster killing at 10th.

4) Barbarian/ Fighter (Take damage/ dish some) Reach weapon, trip feats, combat reflexes.

5) Summoner....ya its broken.

[james maissen]

JudasKilled wrote:

The optimal party is unimportant mostly

It's a myth first and foremost.

It is important to have a party that has its bases covered, lest it suffer for its lack. To that end having someone that can find/remove traps, utility casting, knowledge skills, tanking, damage, diplomacy based skills, area control, healing/fixing, and the like are all important.

The next important thing is to have the party play well with one another. This is mainly within the realm of the player, but party makeup can work this way.

For a good many things having a party that could say, for example, all sneak around with darkvision could prove to be very strong in many unexpected ways for set encounters.

-James

[meatrace]

I'd say core 4+bard personally. Human fighter, elf wizard, rogue (thug archetype I love but no trapfinding is fail), either cleric with healing domain or a paladin, and an archer bard perhaps halfling.

[Thalin]

Meh, for standard party I'd probably go as following:

1) Pally - Human. Str: 20 int: 12 wis:10 Dex: 14 con: 14 cha: 16. Two hand fighter. good survivor / talker with high damage output. Generally prefer to fighter for saves, and most enemies are evil.

2) Elf Witch. As you listed but 18 dex 12 con. Ray spells are good too.

3) Detective Bard, Elf bow. Str: 12 Int: 20 wis: 10 Dex: 18 Con: 12 Chr: 16. Buffs and trapfinds, increases party speed. I'm not a rogue fan, and certainy don't like multi in PF.

4) Druid, human. Companions wolf, then ape, then lion. Str: 20 Int: 12 Wis: 16 Dex: 14 Con: 14 Chr 12. Damage tank and summoner, Spirit of Beast-type. I think these are far better than summoners, for the record.

5) Elf Wizard, battlefield controller. Str: 10 Int: 20 Wis: 14 Dex: 18 Con: 12 Chr: 1

I think this is both a more socially competent and powerful and combat ready party. While there is no dedicated healer, all but the wiz can heal. Lots of strong tanks to hold front line, letting the bard and wizard buff all up.

[Kyranor]

5 Druids

[Caineach]

If I were to twink out a group, it would look something like this:
Summoner: Free tank combined with some of the best battlefield control and buffs.
Druid: AC for second tank, lots of good control, compotent front line fighter himself.
Bard: The rest of the awesome buffs for the large group you are fielding. Ranged.
Wizard: for all those spells your missing.
Inquisitor: Ranged DPS + awesome divinations.

[Kaiyanwang]

Fightin' Man, Magic-User, Cleric and Thief. Four are enough.

[Xzarf]

Kyranor wrote:

5 Druids

+1 They do it all!!

[Kilbourne]

1) Rogue

2) Witch

3) Another rogue

4) Heal-bot cleric

5) Half-dragon anti-paladin gestalt'ed with summoner and sorcerer

[Fergie]

I think if you are out to win D&D, at least one of those characters should be a controller type. Probably a sorcerer (fey bloodline?) although in some cases a cleric could be useful as well. Necromancers, and summoners are also good in this respect.

It is one thing to defeat a monster, but it is much better to make that monster work for you.

[nategar05]

1. Transmuter or Conjurer banning Enchantment and Illusion. Maybe even an infusion Alchemist.

2. Bard.

3. Gnome Sorcerer focusing on Illusion spells.

4. Summoner with Biped Tank and Use Magic Device.

5. Any tank.

[JudasKilled]

I played in a competative 5v5 event that was 12th level I believe awhile back. I did well but got smoked by the winner of the event. (You play all 5 charecter's on a grid, each round was diffrent predetermined terrain.

I got absolutely crushed as well as everyone else by the double monk double ranger, druid combo

both monks had torq's of antimagic and high inits.

The rangers both had wolves with trip which they immedietly sent after the closest arcane caster and the druids companion followed suit. The rangers unloaded while the monks took hits and disrupted. The druid handled all the misc tasks, torq's of antimagic are rough.