JudasKilled's page

Hello fellow Paizoians,

As my subject/title indicates I am seeking advice from this most excellent community of Pathfinder RPG enthusiasts, what I am NOT looking for is criticism of my GM-ing style, telling me I'm doing "it" wrong (without at least explaining that statement), and other general "unhelpful" trolling-type comments.

I'll try to give as much help as I can regarding my players and their characters. Here goes:

Emryss a human wizard 18th level.

Krang a half-orc barbarian 4/fighter 14.

Alexite a tiefling fighter 5/rogue 4/duelist 8.

Verand'lar an elf ranger 17th level.

Kairu a human druid 18th level, and Sala his crocodile companion.

Right now they are going thorough The Witchwar Legacy since they were in the region of Irrisen and the appropriate level, and they need the ** spoiler omitted ** for something going on in my regular weekly game.

They have been stomping the opposition, and barely taking a scratch. And while I am not one of those GMs that subscribes to the "Me vs. the players" mind-set, I feel that this module will be seen as "not challenging" or even not threatening to their characters.

A good example (which I will utilize spoiler tags for) they have gotten to the Middle Falls level ** spoiler omitted **...

pick up 2nd ad&d labyrinth of madness, that modules for 17+ charecters and god is it roughhhhhhhhhh

I have a third level Gnome Necromancy. He wants to become vampire/ undead, but I don't want to play him as Evil. How do I do that?

If you want the best DnD book on vampires ever printed get van richtens guide to the vampire 2nd ed ravenloft. Some of the rules would have to be adapted but the rest of the info is invaluable. Power gained by age, immediate changes, role play, everything. Its a really good book.

No offense but I call this garbage GMING, as in absolute crap. Before you take offense let me explain why. When someones jut free forming, i can tell, ive dmd a long time. I know every dm has to wing s$!% and make up npcs on the spot. But to have crazy s@$+ out in the middle of nowhere all the time is just well unrealistic. It reminds me of games i ran when i was 12 years old for my friends.

Now I have paghes of notes stat blocks, encounter tables, map keys with major relics and creatures listed for the wqhole area the pcs are in. Then if the pcs get f#*$ed hard and are like WTF ill just show um my notes that I made a long time ago and they alll feal like they havent been cheated.

Ultimetly winging it is fine a little bit, but i personally believe winging it too much is just bad dming.

JudasKilled wrote:

There is also one other major disadvantage to ranged combat that no one that I noticed mentioned. It is the most important one as well. The fact that the hit points that charecter who is a fighter type has that arent being used. I.E. 4 person party you have 2 fighters ones an archer, your front line now has X hp when that amount is a fraction of what it would be if that archer was melee.

I think its massively relevant.

Not really. The archer is a primary damage dealer the other party members try to protect.

As an example, in the Legacy of Fire AP I ran the party's wizard and sorcerer served as the bait for the final BBEG while the fighter and cleric defended the archer who downed it in 3 rounds.

Primary damage dealer? all classes deal damage

archers are bad.....

All the way back to 3.5, whenever someone played an archer, the melee warriors felt a bit like suckers.

In Pathfinder, the archers seem to be even more ahead.

1) archers get full attacks much more often than melee fighters
2) Point Blank Shot is another +1/+1 to attack/damage over what a melee warrior can get with a condition that's very, very commonly fulfilled
3) Rapid Shot is one of the most valuable boosts for a warrior, a whole new attack, available at 1st level
4) Manyshot doubles your base damage on your first attack, available at 6th-level
5) the greatest disadvantage of ranged combat, cover, is completely obviated by Improved Precise Shot at 11th level (or 6th level for rangers)
6) another great disadvantage, not being able to convert surplus attack bonus into damage, is solved in Pathfinder by Deadly Aim, which is as good as Power Attack for a sword & shield fighter

Imagine a feat for a sword & shield warrior that gives +1/+1 to against enemies you attacked last round, and another one that gives an extra attack with a -2 penalty to all attacks, and another that lets your first sword swing deal double damage. Would you allow this in your game? Does it sound overpowered?

And yet that's what the archers get as a matter of course, at less risk then the melee guys.

There is also one other major disadvantage to ranged combat that no one that I noticed mentioned. It is the most important one as well. The fact that the hit points that charecter who is a fighter type has that arent being used. I.E. 4 person party you have 2 fighters ones an archer, your front line now has X hp when that amount is a fraction of what it would be if that archer was melee.

I think its massively relevant.

What are the general guidlines for tracking spell components? Currently my DM expects me to track every componet needed for every spell. I know this is by RAW, but what a PITA. (My wizard knows ALOT of spells.).

I am a dm that requires component tracking and bans eschew materials. I think it adds a very fun dynamic, a difficulty and challenge to the game. I did play 1st ed and 2nd ed and I will admit my largest issue with pathfinder and 3.5 is how easy it is. I like a challenging game, i have no newbie players and dont allow them in my game. I dont even give the two spells when they level automatically, they have to spend out of charecter time researching. This is the price you pay for being nigh unkillable and god amongst men at later levels.

Suck it up

Our campaign is an utter mess. I have a hard time challenging the PCs. At 3rd level, 3 out of the 6 PCs have an AC of between 21-23. Most typical monsters of that level can't touch them (only hitting on Natural 20s). They output so much damage that a group of just 4 of them can kill even tough CR 5 monsters (owlbears)without getting a scratch. They destroyed a shadow which was ignoring their AC in a single round. A gelatinous cube was reduced to paste in two rounds without getting off a single attack.

Has PF so drastically changed the power level of characters that the CR system doesn't work? Seriously, I've been playing 3rd edition or its incarnations for nearly 10 years now, and this is the first time that I've felt that the system just doesn't work.

I was wanting to wrap up the campaign in a couple of sessions anyway, but it looks like next session I might need to migrate to a new system and end the campaign early. As it is, the system just seems unplayable.

What am I doing wrong?

Welcome to pathfinder, where there is no attrition, everyone has mod + 3 uses of retarded sick abilities and partys fight dbl there cr

Svipdag wrote:

Some classes just have alignment restrictions, like it or not. Why can't you have paladins of non-lawful deities?

Well, Sune from Forgotten Realms is CG and she has Paladins.

Also, see Paladins of Freedom from Unearthed Arcana.

Sune does have paladins, they are still lawful good.

Ravingdork wrote:

Kryzbyn wrote:

The same way you'd forget that barbies must be chaotic and monks must be lawful and let him play a barbarian/monk, i guess.

Thank you for your useless contribution to this thread!

It's your loss I guess. From watching my friend play a barbarian who slowly becomes civilized through his exposure to the party (and religion) I can honestly say, it looked like an awesome/fun roleplaying experience.
I just don't get why they had to errata in a penalty.

Since when does adding more limitations make the game more fun?

I'm not laughing at you, I'm laughing with you. Pardon my snarkiness.

The barbarian/berserker gaines his strength his rage and power from the chaos and anger in his blood and soul.

Meditation, discipline, and a calm mind of the monk doesnt mix with that. Every martial art on the planet teaches strategy, prescence of mind when in battle.

Going bat s~@~ crazy and killing all foes until you stop fighting heaving gasps of air and letting the red haze of your enemys doom doesnt mix at all.

If you really wanna ignore that rule then at least say he cant use any of his monk abilities while raging and vice versa. When raging you cant focus on hitting the nerve point to stunning fist because you cant think about it ETC.

There are also some balance issues at play, not massive ones seeing as pathfinder in general is overpowered, but still stacking fast movement for example can get crazy.

Funny, Judas, here's how I remember that game happening:

Through lack of any significant plot development, we opted as a party to make some money the old-fashioned way, and watched the city square for a few minutes. We noticed a noble walking alone (hardly a lordling, without any accompaniment whatsoever) and followed him home. The home itself was not described as being anything but large, and it didn't seem like we were robbing someone important. We watched the home, trespassed, and stole a single, expensive ruby from it. There were no sense motive checks whatsoever and description was lacking to the point that nobody in the party had any inkling whatsoever that we were robbing someone of important stature, let alone a lord or government figure.

Being that we were smart enough to take a single gem (rather than make the place devoid of furnishings altogether), we opted to profit from the gem before notice was taken, and go. The moneylender told us we'd have our money the next day--and if you were to ask my "player opinion", this is the approximate moment you decided that we were going to pay for the crime with our lives, because literally nothing we did after this met with any success. And it was terribly obvious.

Guards showed up. I hid the gem quickly. We let them tear the place apart and search us, and they didn't find it, and they still decided they were going to rough us up and arrest us, despite utter lack of evidence. At this point, I'm aggravated that my sleight of hand check mind as well have not been made, because we're still facing a grand theft charge, as stated by the overly-aggressive guards. Clearly I wasn't the only person who felt like the small town had developed some sort of psychic awareness in regard to gems, because as a party we decided we'd stomp out the aggressive guards and flee immediately. Unfortunately, there were many more guards than we'd anticipated (some might say more than there should have been in a trade town with only one moneylender), and we lost.

At this point in the game, you get verbose again, and describe to us in brutal detail exactly how roughed up we are, complete with an "arrest shaving", where, lo and behold, the guards discover the gem hidden in my character's hair-tie. To this day I'm without the words to describe that particular circumstance.

After being terribly beaten, starved, and re-beaten, we were able to talk quietly in our cell, and come up with a clever alibi... Note that at this point the rogue considered making an attempt to free us, but the jail was described to him as being Fort Knox, and he was balked... In the cell we came to the conclusion that we had a substantial claim of self-defense, which we'd pursue. We agreed that because the gem was found, we'd have to suck it up and deal with the repercussions of theft.

So at the end of the trial, we're finally given the opportunity to speak our piece, and I--the bard--natural 20 the diplomacy roll to plea for our lives based on our alibi. I roleplay my character's oratory to the best of my ability, and speak respectfully, despite the urge not to, and Judas, the DM, rather than just tell me we were destined to make new characters, lets me waste my breathe. We're told that we're all sentenced to quick deaths. I don't recall any mention of torture or public humiliation, but it's probably because I was at that point pointing out how ridiculous I felt the entire game was.

And it was. I'm still bitter. And that's the story.

At the time we were playing by a house rule (or perhaps just an incorrect rule) that natural 20s always succeeded on skill checks. It was 3.0, if my memory serves me, and the "mis-rule" was a standard for us then.

It was two rubys by the way, i just checked my notes.

No the home wasnt amasing by DnD standards, it was a large home in a border town, one of 3 large homes in the whole town. You guys never asked or checked around.

The guards showed up and searched the place and you did sleight of hand the gem, unfortunetly they know what you look like because of the gem merchants description and to be honest well the peasants dont look like you guys so theres little chance they have the wrong guys.

Anyways, you guys got mouthy, very mouthy and decided that attacking was better then going in for questioning. The whopping 5-6 guards that were in there got rolled, the whole towns guard was there. This the most signifigant crime theyve likely ever had to deal with and your adventurers and have a mage.......they arent taking chances plus the lordlings looking for blood if the gems arent found. Ohh ya they have a level 4 ranger/rouge ex bounty hunter whos not a moron and knows that if the your under arrest doesnt work that back ups good.

Anyways eventually you guys are taken down/surrender. They rough you up pretty good, you killed 11 of there friends, just farmers trying to make a few extra silvers training with the militia and doing some patrols here and there. They search you all thouroughly, strip search you and find the gem, ya they check your hair tie, its not invisible......

The jail was as my notes describe 3 sturdy cells with iron bars in the basement of the tower that stands as the towns garrison and legal center. There a stairwell that leads to a heavy door that is locked if you do free yourselves from the cell. Seems standard for a small jail and too your 2nd level naked asses it is fort knocks.

As for your chance to speak your peace, yep you got that, because as the headsmen says, any last words. That doesnt mean the axe isnt coming. You rolled a 20 which was and still is in my games +10 to the total of your roll where a 1 is a -10, thats a moving speech and some of the peasants probably felt for you a bit. Unfortunetly you killed 11 guards, they are dead. Nat 20 on the roll and just caught for stealing? Then ya you get off light.

Either way i did what I thought made sense, you were pissed you died, I understand that but im not going to cheat to make you guys live nor am I gonna make some npc thats not in my notes save your asses because your players. That IMO is s!*!ty dming, run it straight and see what happens.

If you for some odd reason think I had it out for the whole party your wrong, I love playing rouges, I dont care you robbed some npc, GJ is what I thought until you made what I thought was a very very stupid mistake.

It is my intention to scry on an enemy army's general until he falls asleep. Once he falls asleep and is relatively vulnerable, I want to attempt to teleport to him, snatch him up, and teleport back to MY army camp--essentially kidnapping him for interrogation purposes.

However, I can only teleport a willing target.

I once heard or read somewhere that sleeping/unconscious targets were always considered willing. However, I cannot find any such rule now, if it exists at all.

Can someone please clarify the issue for me? Does such a rule exist, and if so, where?

That is the funniest unintentional joke ever, the title of your post. I was laughing hard, good times.

I had a player get rather irate in a game because he thought that i didnt give him a fair shake. I think I was being perfectly reasonable. DM is always right nonsense aside.

The party is 2-3rd level. They are in a lager town of around 600 people. A border village that became a trade post over time. I have written that the sheriff or constable for the town is a retired thief and bounty hunter rouge 2/ranger 2 and there is a 5th level wizard in town. The towns goverment is a noble lordling who is petty and annoyed that he is posted here.

Anyways the pcs rob the nobles house in the night and get away scott free and steal the nobles prized jewels, two large rubys worth 1500 or so gold each. GJ players, however they do screw up. They go to the only moneylender and moneychanger in town who very often does business with the lord. The lord being a vain man has showed them to the merchant prior and even used them as collateral. The merchant informs the lord after the pcs try and sell it and he tells them it will take a few days to get together the money.

The gurds and constable come to arrest the pcs, one pc shoots a guard with a crossbow and hell breaks loose. Theres a standoff the guards finally charge in, body count is 11 dead guards. One pc did not fight and the rouge sneaks off. The others are captured and put on trial. One pc rolls a natural 20 on diplomacy and I rule that the pc who didnt kill any guards will be senteanced to a labor camp and that the pcs who did kill trhe guards will be executed without torture or the shame of public execution because of the natural 20.

The pc thinks that was unfair because of the 20 diplomacy roll. So what do you think?

Hey man, just wanted to say that this is really solid advice. Definitely saving this page to help make some dungeons in the future. Thanks!

Thanks, it works well for me.

Are you being obtuse? What part of the code makes you an ex-paladin for being raped? I'll come back to your other points after this one.

Someone else posted that you would lose pally s**@ for being raped, I told that poster they were wrong. Im confused lol.

Explain to me what part of the paladin code makes you fall for being violated against your will. Explain to me how portraying rape as a good thing makes for a realistic story. Explain to me how that story is fun for other players. Explain to me how it is not the GMs job to maintain a healthy group.

Fall for? The paladin was dominated via spell.....much like getting charmed bya monster.

Portraying rape is a good thing? I didnt say it was a good thing,its bad obviously but I hate to break it to you but bad stuff happens. In real life and in REALISTIC settings, like novels, movies or even a RPing game.
That story wouldnt bother a single player that I play with in one game and it would in the other. The first game we are adults who understand its not personal.

A healthy group? I dont understand how allowing players to dictate there own actions how they see fit IN CHARECTER makes for a unhealthy game. They are charecters.......not you....maybe you should reread that part.

JudasKilled wrote:

The paladin fell how? You think the paladin because while mind controlled got raped lost its class? Thats retarded, there a TON of interesting roleplay that can come from this.

Yes. The paladin fell because the wizard raped the paladin via dominate. This is the main issue with the DM.

If you think this is good DMing, we have nothing else to discuss.

Good dming is creating a realistic world and creating plots that the players may choose to get involved in. It is not intervening any time the players argue, fight, or do anything not happy fun times. DMing isnt about making sure your girlfriends charecter doesnt have any troble or die and that everyones hugging everything. Its telling arealistic story.

JudasKilled wrote:

The only thing that is funny about the situation is that you think because the CE wiz dominates, tricks, and "rapes" your character IN CHARACTER with appropriate rolls that you should deserve intervention. The only person who would be getting cheated would be the CE wizard.

Read it again.

Remember that this is about GMs who cause problems.

Point 1 : It's a group game, and the DM brought a player along to an established group whose first character immediately tried to destroy another player's character.
In this instance: "Hey, I'm just playing my character." Begs the question: "Why, when you were creating your character, did you decide to make one who would destroy another character?"

Point 2 : The GM decided to make the Paladin fall.
So, the paladin loses a load of abilities and becomes a weak fighter because an evil person dominated his/her mind?
Unfair and unbecoming for a LG deity.

If a player joins a group and immediately starts trying to spoil somebody else's fun then that person is not worth playing with and the GM should be told to grow up or sod off. As the GM brought him/her to the group, it was the GM who should have done the telling.

I dont see how the wizard destroyed anyone's charecter. He used a spell and did things in charecter. Thats just roleplaying. The game isnt care bears the role playing game.

The paladin fell how? You think the paladin because while mind controlled got raped lost its class? Thats retarded, there a TON of interesting roleplay that can come from this.

I think that the dm should tell the players at the start of a campaign or when a person makes a new charecter what the premise is and let them do as they want. I usually dm and approved a paladin and a CE rouge of cyric after telling both players this was the case. I knew one would die and they were warned. Not my problem.

If you guys say so, i haven't played one in pathfinder since i came from 3.5 but not much has changed and they sucked ass compared to the fighter before. Whats better about them?

Im going to change divine grace from charisma mod to saves to charisma mod to saves, hit/dmg and ability checks, cause pallys blow.........

Not mine, but this old doozy is unforgivable.

Small party of mixed alignments, formed for a while. Party has a paladin. GM's friend comes on board as a CE wizard.

CE wizard's player proceeds to undermine the paladin.

GM lets it go without a word.

CE wizard then magically dominates the paladin.

GM lets it go without a word.

CE wizard forces the dominated paladin into sex, raping her.

GM has the paladin fall for it.

Some situations call for the table to be flipped over.

Others call for people to be beaten with it.

I dont see what was wrong here at all to be honest. Its a mature roleplaying game when the group is adults. Nor should in charecter actions ever be considered offensive out of charecter unless its metagaming or bad role playing like your lg pally raping someone for no reason.

I will admit its not funny, and it requires maturity in the group. I guess it depends on how it was dealt with. I guess as long as it was in charecter, cant take the heat get your ass out the kitchen is what I would think.

The only thing that is funny about the situation is that you think because the CE wiz dominates, tricks, and "rapes" your charecter IN CHARECTER with appropriate rolls that you should deserve intervention. The only person who would be getting cheated would be the CE wizard.

Anyone know of any player vs player events?

Any stories?

I put up a recent post about it but cant find it. I was thinking of maybe running a tournament in chicago land.

1 person 5 sheets tourney

Teams of 4 people each with a sheet or whatever.

Any thoughts, interest, concern?

Here is a step by step process I use to create dungeons in my own style. Its worked for me over the years and hopefully it helps some newer DM's out and even a few of the old ones. Either way feel free to comment, add your own thoughts and own process's for your games or comment on mine.

I am in no way saying this is the only way, just my way of creating plausible and realistic dungeons. I do not run what most people call tailored games. I probably run a 10% tailored game, the rest is cause and effect and based on player choices. So with my style of DMing there is no such thing in my head as building based upon CR, party ability or anything else. The only thing I care about is making it realistic based upon what it is.
My players love the challenges, the fact they don't know if they are supposed to be able to defeat it, and they play with thought, foresight, and logic because they know if im going to put something in the dungeon it will make sense. ( if they knew everything I knew) Therefore they pay close attention, stay on there toes, and appreciate things more. This style I will be honest is for advanced players. Deaths do happen a bit more then average with players who don't think things through. Take what you like, leave what you don't, and post advice of your own.

This may take a bit. Example of dungeon creation included.

1) I figure out the history of the location. Was it a dwarven border stronghold until 400 years ago it was overrun? Is it the stronghold of a villain? Just caverns in which the local hobgoblings and goblins live in and raid from?

This is important because it gives you an idea of your resources, your flavor, and everything else.

In addition when plot-hooking the dungeon I often figure out what locals or npc's would know/think. If the pc's are just going to hear a rumor in the tavern to hook them I create a rumor table with generally 25% truths, 25% falsehoods and 50% partial truths. They can also maybe hear of this place with knowledge history of the area or if they have a dwarf in the party.

2) I create a random encounter table for travel within proximity to the dungeon which often gives hints to what to expect. Also when appropriate for the dungeon, i often use it if the pcs decide to sleep in the dungeon and could be randomly found.

3) I know look towards building the habitat and ecology. I will use the ancient dwarven stronghold as an example for the rest of this exercise.

The Lost hold of Clan Kadin'Mor:
Brief overview: Clan Kadin'Mor was a smaller clan of the dwarven nation who held one of the largest entrances to the underground tunnels of the mountain range of BLAH. The orcs in this time had a chieftain rise to promise and grow fighting the humans with fervor to the south. The dwarven clan sent aid to the humans to the south to only discovered days later the orcs had anticipated this and with some outside help surprise attacked the clan that was now at half strength. The clan was decimated with few escaping as they collapsed the entrance to the network of tunnels that lead to the highway of the dwarves.

Now we know, we have room for traps, tricks, some magic effects in a few key areas, and some really well made engineering. Now we have to consider what 400 years of wear and tear, abandonment and some orc occupation has caused.

So we build what a dwarven clan of X citizens would have had and needed prior to the fall. Lets say we say this clan settled in a large cavern about 120ft tall and 200 feet wide at first and begun sculpting and digging in from there and using resources from the taiga like land outside to survive as they went.

So we have a cavern, which was likely homes and a temple to morridin initially. Lets say as time progresses they grow, trade mining ores and turn the cavern into the public area for trade, homes, and in the center the high temple of moridin and seat of the clan leader.
I would also note at this point even after building what the dwarves had it would be fairly rare to find magic effects such as traps outside of the temple and the primary defenses which fell.

Now we have to consider what the dwarves' ate/drank. Lets say they mined a passage to the mountain face that allowed water to pour into a aqueduct from a stream. Lets say its a small chute that cuts through the cavern surface to the river that flows down the mountain. Lets assume the grate is underwater , covered in bars and magically warded.
Lets say the aqueduct is a fountain outside the temple and that the statue of morridin is enchanted to turn black if the water is not pure.

Lets assume for food they traded for some, grew mushrooms in a large dwarf-made cavern and hunted the area above.

Now based on those factors we can construct a list of what we will have in the dungeons maps.
1) We have a entrance from the surface, wide enough to allow carts through, so 10-20 feet wide.
2) We have a cavern and basic measurements for that cavern, we know there is a temple in the cavern and a aqueduct/fountain near it as well as some homes. The homes would be crafted and not cut from the rock face for the most part.
3) It would also be likely the Clans warforce would have been housed in this cavern based on closeness to important things and the entrance. I would say 60% were stationed here 30% by the collapsing underdark entrance and 10% elsewhere.
4) We can assume there would be a market square here for any traders as well as the citizens day to day activity.

We also know the rest of the dungeon will include a cavern that will be filled with mushrooms, growths, and will provide a interesting contrast to the rest of the dungeon.
We have the working area a bit off the beaten path of the central city that contains mine shafts, carts, etc.
We can assume that all the smiths, forges and metalworkers would be located near to the mine shafts so they could fix mining issues and use metals when needed with minimal transportation.
We also need a place for waste disposal, lets assume because they are dwarves they had toilets that had a light flow of water that lead to a disposal area. We can put this near the mushroom grove and say that the waste was drained off and a mesh grating separated the non liquid disposal matter to be used as fertilizer for the mushrooms.

I would then add in a ring around the central square well cut 10 foot passages that lead to the various homes of the dwarven people. I would do a set amount of sections or primary passages. Not near the shroom cavern or somewhat unstable mine area though.

Ok we have the habitat basics, logically what would be there, now we accelerate it by 400 years years and use our imagination.

We have multiple areas that all could almost be dungeons on there own if you wanted to go that route.
The three warrens of homes could easily be occupied by creatures.
The central cavern.
The mine area and shroom cavern.
The temple itself which likely held the vaults of the clan would be my most likely spot to include a additional dungeon. It could very easily have many rooms, defenses, and other stuff beneath it.

4) Ok fourth step, lets figure out what did actually happen after the fall of the clan.
Lets say the orcs were aided in defeating the dwarven defenses by a younger, crafty, and ambitious dragon. Lets say he was age category X now add 400 years and lets say he sleeps deep within the mines closest to his treasured veins of silver. Lets say the orcs served the dragons purposes for a time until it decided to remove them by whatever means.
This dragon could be, drow, duegar, or really anything, or it could just be the orcs themselves. Though i find the idea of mixing dwarven traps and higher level difficulty stuff with hordes of CR nothing creatures to be boring so ill skip that option.

5) Next try and find away to add potential for flavor and story. I like the idea of maybe a journal found with the fearful memories of a dwarf locked somewhere but unable to escape and running out of time. Maybe in the temple the dwarf lord fled to the vault after a valiant stand of his guards to await rescue until mad with grief and fear he died alone and lost. Either way come up with a way to make the dungeon memorable and put the pcs in the history of the place.

6) I am choosing to make the temple an entirely different dungeon albeit a small one. Lets say even the dragon was unable to break into the vault of the dwarves and over time made alliance with a necromancer of some skill who agreed to break into the vaults in exchange for whatever. The necromancer has made his home in the temple and after advancing in skill ceased working with the dragon but uses the temple as a stronghold and comes/goes through teleportation. Lets say he is at home 60% of the time and roll randomly when required per week. Lets say he is 11th level or so, build a sheet in case the players do bypass the temples outer defenses and he is needed.

Ok so lets take the main cavern and make a encounter table for the large open area and put undead onto it, skeletons, ghouls, and whatever else, maybe even a ghost or banshee as the top roll.

I would then do the 3 living areas. They could be some remaining orcs the dragon never bothered to kill with there small numbers, more undead, or maybe one of the warrens is the domain of a pack of displacer beasts.

The mines i would fill with kobolds, add some interesting traps, some major terrain obstacles and the dragon at the end.

The fungal garden could be filled with a plant monster, myconids or nothing but food.

ETC, take each room and figure out whats there, what it needs to survive and how it interacts with the surrounding environment.

7) We know whats where and why. Now roll treasure for each encounter or area, or where you think it likely and figure out if its a ring in the displacer beasts feces, a sword held by a skeleton or whatever. I ALWAYS preroll encounter treasures because many times the encounter would use what it is. The dragon can use items, if it owns them and knows your coming why the hell wouldn't it?
I also will usually put a placed item or two that was not rolled randomly somewhere in the dungeon, but usually it is very well concealed or would take alot of difficulty to get to, or just flat makes alot of sense for the encounter. Otherwise I do not believe in placed treasure, you wanted to play the weapon master with the falcuta? Ok well don't expect me to put one in the treasure of the dragon for you, Im just going to add it as a % roll on the appropriate table, guess you shoulda went straight fighter if you don't like it.

8) My finishing steps and touches, adding plot devices, other fluff and descriptions in written form I do next.

9) As I stated before I do not run tailored CR based games, so I then figure out in what ways if not through direct plot interaction the pcs could end up hear. Knowledge history check, rumor tables, randomly just deciding to head east and travelling up the mountain face because they found an ancient stone road? Whatever.

When I make my campaign start of point I usually build a 150 mile radius or basically what the pcs could conceivably approach and figure out whats there. IE the 1st level pcs will have any opportunity that the characters could have to hear of anything. I build X amount of danger spots, dwarven ruins , evil forest, the hobgoblins raiding caves, the hidden temple of the evil god blah. I right up a description of whats there, figure out a brief history, a encounter table and likely inhabitants and thats it.

If the pcs hear of the fallen clan stronghold and decide to go at 1st level so be it. The descriptions, the rumors of the farmers 15 miles away, and whatever research they do is all there going to get. Otherwise that first encounters going to involve running or party members dieing.

Well thats my style, its how I like to do it and some people hate it. Hopefully this helps a newer DM a bit. I just recently realized how little many players know about creating a dungeon or habitat as a newer GM and even some experienced ones. So heres some of my tips and perspective.

Good games!

I was thinking of hosting a pathfinder based competition at maybe next years gencon or depending on feedback in the Chicago area.

It would likely be a few types of competitions. These are thoughts at theses points but the entry fees would go to prize support which would be cash or barring legal issues gift certificates etc.

Event Types:
Each event type could be done at mid-level such as 6th or so and another around 12th. Non pregen event and pregen event.
1)5 sheets played by one person, swiss point system with cut to a top 8 or 4 depending on turn out. Each round would be a new terrain/scenario such as arena, chasm with lava, whatever.

2)4 sheets played by 4 players.

3) Module competition with rewards based upon multiple factors. This would be much more difficult to staff obviously but it would be fun.

In addition other normal fun stuff.

My largest turn off with competing events is pre-gen charecter's. I think it takes half of the skill of what makes a powerful charecter out of the equation. It does however create some other potential issues.
I think with creation rules clearly stated, and judges available for rules calls I dont see the problem.

The point of combat competing is to be broken and be tricky. May the best person/person's win. If you wanna run 5 summoners, feel free.
I would however make sure that over the coarse of the tourney each terrain type or setting would offer some form of way to give each class a way to gain additional advantage or difficulty.
(Such as round 1 open arena, round 2 wooded area with clearing, hills, etc. Round 3 rocky terrain, chasm, Rnd 4 dungeon like terrain with preset traps or surprises, etc.)

Thoughts suggestions? Interested partys?

I played in a competative 5v5 event that was 12th level I believe awhile back. I did well but got smoked by the winner of the event. (You play all 5 charecter's on a grid, each round was diffrent predetermined terrain.

I got absolutely crushed as well as everyone else by the double monk double ranger, druid combo

both monks had torq's of antimagic and high inits.

The rangers both had wolves with trip which they immedietly sent after the closest arcane caster and the druids companion followed suit. The rangers unloaded while the monks took hits and disrupted. The druid handled all the misc tasks, torq's of antimagic are rough.

The optimal party is unimportant mostly, but for competing dungeons and modules it matters. Assume levels are either 6th level or 10th level with 5 characters. The levels aren't to relevant as far as the classes go, a few get better at certain levels but not to an extent that matters THAT much.

Now let me say that in my mind in competing modules you do need some skills and charisma effects that do not relate to combat where is in a dungeon only setting you can make do without usually. Lets just say for this excercise that the party will need some skills so it more closely reflects an actual campaign. If you would like to list changes based upon COMBAT only please do so under your Standard party. Also for those of you who have played D&D party vs party arenas and etc feel free to share that info below as well.

1)All charecter's have the stats of 18 16 14 14 12 10 + racial's. No non PHB races or templates. I did not include stat gains for 4th/8th.

2)All gear is allowed if you want to go in depth but NO ITEM can cost over 50% of starting wealth. Im not sure on the exact amount offhand but lets just say 6th is 10,000 and 10th is 72,000. If that's not accurate by book lets just assume in this scenario that's what you have.

IMO:
The ideal 5 man party for standard modules and games is as follows:
1)Dwarven/Human Fighter (AC and swarm fighting based)Str:18 Dex:12 Con:18 Int:10 Wis:14/16 Cha: 14/12

2)Human Rouge 3/5 Fighter 3/5 (DPS, caster killing, and relevant skills)
(two weapon fighting, dodge, mobility, disruptive, etc) Str:18 Dex: 16 Con:14 Int:14 Wis: 12 Cha: 10 +2 to str/dex/int would be acceptable.

3)Human Cleric (Heavy Armor prof, cleric goodness, good ac back up melee) Str: 14 Dex: 10: Con 16 Int: 12 Wisdom: 20 Cha: 14

4) Witch (Back up healing, utility, spells, crowd control) Str: 10 Dex: 14 Con:16
Int: 20 Wisdom: 14 Cha: 12 Lots of extra hex, buff/debuff cackle build with slumber.

5)Human Sorcerer (Nukes, spells, social skills)
Str: 10 Dex: 14 Con: 16 Int: 14 Wis: 12 Cha: 20
I would normally prefer wizard but we have no charisma junky, and the party loses little by having a sorcerer as opposed to a wizard.

Competing Combat Party:
1) Witch Elven(Spells, Hexes) Most feats on extra hexes.

2) Witch Human ( Spells,Hexes) Counterspeller, feats based heavily on crowd control and opposing casters.

3) Fighter/Rouge or Monk( DPS Ninja) Mobile disruption/dps, focus on caster killing at 10th.

4) Barbarian/ Fighter (Take damage/ dish some) Reach weapon, trip feats, combat reflexes.

5) Summoner....ya its broken.

Mostly were 2nd level and the image i had in mind for my mount isnt doable until like 7th

I have never played a summoner and have heard how broken they are or can be. I am playing in a good game where I dont wanna be too overpowered. I do however wish that the summoner had a alternate that didnt have spellcasting/summon monster etc.

Im looking to use my eidolan as a cool and interesting mount for a warrior esk charecter.

Any suggestions on how to convert the summoner to something more like a fighter and less like a spellcaster?> Anyone know of any other classes that had similar casting progressions etc and were subbed out for martial skills?

I guess but I have a level 11 inquisitor and those judgements, +2d6 bane damage adds up, and freedom of movement and buffs are pretty good.

Honestly it sounds alot like an inquisitor concept, why not just go cavalier inquisitor? It seems like a reasonable combo

Im not familiar with the templar, could u paste the flavor of it and highlight a few abilities?

I have never played a summoner and have heard how broken they are or can be. I am playing in a good game where I dont wanna be too overpowered. I do however wish that the summoner had a alternate that didnt have spellcasting/summon monster etc.

Im looking to use my eidolan as a cool and interesting mount for a warrior esk charecter.

Any suggestions on how to convert the summoner to something more like a fighter and less like a spellcaster?> Anyone know of any other classes that had similar casting progressions etc and were subbed out for martial skills?

There was a half dwarf race in dark sun, look up the Mul or Mull if you want some refrence ideas

U can take eldritch knight at 6th now, why not just do that?

My ultimate issue with the martil artist was the flavor didnt seem difrent then a monk

ok heres the alternate I came up with and I think it may be a tad too good and it seems weaker then the martial artist

Brawler
The brawler is fighter of the purest form. He revels in combat, confrontation, and the lamentation of his enemy's. Experts at using there body to strike in wild and dirty combat styles that are almost impossible to train as opposed to learn through harsh experience .

Role: The brawler can often fit the role of a traditional fighter better then that of the quick and disciplined monk. Examples of the brawler could be found in a rowdy tavern, a gladiatorial arena, or as a wild man of the woods.

Alignment: Any chaotic.

Hit Die: d10.
Class Skills

The brawler's class skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Perception (Wis), Ride (Dex), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str).

Skill Ranks per Level: 4 + Int modifier.
Table: Monk Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special Flurry of Blows Attack Bonus Unarmed Damage CMD Bonus
1st +0 +2 +|0
+2 Bonus feat, flurry of blows, stunning fist, unarmed strike
–1/ –1 1d6 +0
2nd +1 +3 +0 +3 Bonus feat, Uncanny Dodge
+0/ +0 1d6 +0
3rd +2 +3 +1 +3 Maneuver training, angry mind +1/ +1 1d6 +0
4th +3 +4 +1 +4 dt pool (Ex), Bastion Stance +2/ +2 1d8 +1
5th +3 +4 +1 +4 Iron Limb Defense, Improved
Uncanny Dodge
+3/ +3 1d8 +1
6th +4 +5 +2 +5 Bonus feat +4/ +4/ –1 1d8 +1
7th +5 +5 +2 +5 Pull from Hidden Reserves
+5/+5/+0 1d8 +1
8th +6/+1 +6 +2 +6
+6/ +6/ +1/ +1 1d10 +2
9th +6/+1 +6 +3 +6 Stalwart
+7/ +7/ +2/ +2 1d10 +2
10th +7/+2 +7 +3 +7 Bonus feat, dt pool (chaotic) +8/ +8/ +3/ +3 1d10 +2
11th +8/+3 +7 +3 +7 Body of the Bull
+9/+9/+4/+4/–1 1d10 +2
12th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Fuel the Fire +10/ +10/ +5/ +5/ +0 2d6 +3
13th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Inner Fire
+11/ +11/ +6/ +6/ +1 2d6 +3
14th +10/+5 +9 +4 +9 Bonus feat +12/ +12/ +7/ +7/ +2 2d6 +3
15th +11/+6/+1 +9 +5 +9 True Strength
+13/ +13/ +8/ +8/ +3/ +3 2d6 +3
16th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Dt pool (adamantine) +14/ +14/ +9/ +9/ +4/ +4/ –1 2d8 +4
17th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Tireless Body +15/ +15/ +10/ +10/ +5/ +5/ +0 2d8 +4
18th +13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 Bonus feat +16/ +16/ +11/ +11/ +6/ +6/ +1 2d8 +4
19th +14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11
+17/ +17/ +12/ +12/ +7/ +7/ +2 2d8 +4
20th +15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Eye of the Storm
+18/ +18/ +13/ +13/ +8/ +8/ +3 2d10 +5
Class Features

All of the following are class features of the monk.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Brawlers are proficient with the club, crossbow (light or heavy), dagger, handaxe, javelin, quarterstaff, shortspear, short sword, sling, maces, bladed gauntlet and spear.

Brawlers can wear medium armor and use a buckler.

Combat Maneuver Defense: A brawler gains +1 to his CMD every four levels. However he does not gain his wisdom bonus to ac or to his CMD like the monk.
Flurry of Blows (Ex): Starting at 1st level, a monk can make a flurry of blows as a full-attack action. When doing so he may make one additional attack using any combination of unarmed strikes or attacks with a special brawler weapon (Hand axe, throwing axe, bladed gauntlet and maces) as if using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat). For the purpose of these attacks, the brawler's base attack bonus is equal to his brawler level. For all other purposes, such as qualifying for a feat or a prestige class, the brawler uses his normal base attack bonus.

At 8th level, the brawler can make two additional attacks when he uses flurry of blows, as if using Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat).

At 15th level, the brawler can make three additional attacks using flurry of blows, as if using Greater Two-Weapon Fighting (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat).

A brawler applies his full Strength bonus to his damage rolls for all successful attacks made with flurry of blows, whether the attacks are made with an off-hand or with a weapon wielded in both hands. A brawler may substitute disarm, sunder, and grapple combat maneuvers for unarmed attacks as part of a flurry of blows. A brawler cannot use any weapon other than an unarmed strike or a special brawler weapon as part of a flurry of blows. A brawler with natural weapons cannot use such weapons as part of a flurry of blows, nor can he make natural attacks in addition to his flurry of blows attacks.

Unarmed Strike: At 1st level, a brawler gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A brawler's attacks may be with fist, elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a brawler may make unarmed strikes with his hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a brawler striking unarmed. A brawler may thus apply his full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all his unarmed strikes.

Usually a brawler's unarmed strikes deal lethal damage, but he can choose to deal nonlethal damage instead with no penalty on his attack roll. He has the same choice to deal lethal or nonlethal damage while grappling.

A brawler's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

Abrawler also deals more damage with his unarmed strikes than a normal person would, as shown above on Table: Monk. The unarmed damage values listed on Table: brawler is for Medium monks. A Small brawler deals less damage than the amount given there with his unarmed attacks, while a Large brawler deals more damage; see Small or Large brawler Unarmed Damage on the table given below.
Small or Large Monk Unarmed Damage Level Damage (Small Monk) Damage (Large Brawler)
1st–3rd 1d4 1d8
4th–7th 1d6 2d6
8th–11th 1d8 2d8
12th–15th 1d10 3d6
16th–19th 2d6 3d8
20th 2d8 4d8

Bonus Feat: At 1st level, 2nd level, and every 4 levels thereafter, a brawler may select a bonus feat. These feats must be taken from the following list: Catch Off-Guard, Combat Reflexes, Endurance, Dodge, Improved Grapple, and Scorpion Style, . At 6th level, the following feats are added to the list: Gorgon's Fist, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Disarm, Improved Feint, Improved Dirty Trick, Diehard and Mobility. At 10th level, the following feats are added to the list: Improved Critical, Medusa's Wrath, Snatch Arrows, and Spring Attack. A brawler need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats to select them..

Stunning Fist (Ex): At 1st level, the brawler gains Stunning Fist as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. At 4th level, and every 4 levels thereafter, the brawler gains the ability to apply a new condition to the target of his Stunning Fist. This condition replaces stunning the target for 1 round, and a successful saving throw still negates the effect. At 4th level, he can choose to make the target fatigued. At 8th level, he can make the target sickened for 1 minute. At 12th level, he can make the target staggered for 1d6+1 rounds. At 16th level, he can permanently blind or deafen the target. At 20th level, he can paralyze the target for 1d6+1 rounds. brawler must choose which condition will apply before the attack roll is made. These effects do not stack with themselves (a creature sickened by Stunning Fist cannot become nauseated if hit by Stunning Fist again), but additional hits do increase the duration.

Tough as Nails (Ex): The brawler gains +3 hit points at 1st level and additional hit point per additional level.

Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 2nd level, a brawler gains the ability to react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She cannot be caught flat-footed, even if the attacker is invisible. She still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. A brawler with this ability can still lose her Dexterity bonus to AC if an opponent successfully uses the feint action against her.

If a brawler already has uncanny dodge from a different class, she automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see below) instead.

Maneuver Training (Ex): At 3rd level, a brawler uses his brawler level in place of his base attack bonus when calculating his Combat Maneuver Bonus. Base attack bonuses granted from other classes are unaffected and are added normally.

Angry Mind (Ex): A brawler of 3rd level or higher gains a +2 bonus on saving throws against enchantment spells and effects.

Dirty Tricks (DT) Pool(Ex): At 4th level, a brawler gains a pool of dt points, energy he can use to accomplish amazing feats. The number of points in a brawler's dt pool is equal to 1/2 his brawler level + his Constitution modifier. As long as he has at least 1 point in his dt pool, he can make a dt strike. At 4th level, dt strike allows his unarmed attacks to be treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Dt strike improves with the character's brawler level. At 10th level, his unarmed attacks are also treated as chaotic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. At 16th level, his unarmed attacks are treated as adamantine weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction and bypassing hardness.

By spending 1 point from his dt pool, a brawler can make one additional attack at his highest attack bonus when making a flurry of blows attack. In addition, he can spend 1 point to increase his speed by 20 feet for 1 round. Finally, a monk can spend 1 point from his dt pool to give himself a +4 dodge bonus to AC for 1 round. Each of these powers is activated as a swift action. A brawler gains additional powers that consume points from his dt pool as he gains levels.

The dt pool is replenished each morning after 8 hours of rest ; these hours do not need to be consecutive.

Bastion Stance (Ex): Bastion Stance (Ex): At 4th level, a brawler becomes like stone, nearly impossible to movewhen he stands his ground. If the brawler starts and ends his turn in the same space, he cannot be knocked prone or forcibly moved until the start of his next turn, except by mind-affecting or teleportation effects. At 16th level, he is immune to any attempts to force him to move, even mind-affecting and teleportation effects.

Iron Limb Defense (Ex): At 5th level, a brawler can def lect blows with an active defense that complements his bastion stance. If the brawler starts and ends his turn in the same space, he gains a +2 shield bonus to AC and CMD until the start of his next turn. As a swift action, he can spend 1 dt point to increase this bonus to +4

Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 5th level and higher, a brawler can no longer be flanked. This defense denies a rogue the ability to sneak attack the brawler by flanking her, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target has brawler levels.

If a character already has uncanny dodge (see above) from another class, the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum rogue level required to flank the character.

Pull from Hidden Reserves (Ex): At 7th level or higher, a brawler can heal his own wounds as a standard action. He can heal a number of hit points of damage equal to his brawler level by using 2 points from his dt pool.

Stalwart (Ex): At 9th level, an brawler can use mental and physical resiliency to avoid certain attacks. If he makes a Fortitude or Will saving throw against an attack that has a reduced effect on a successful save, he instead avoids the effect entirely. This ability can only be used if the brawler is wearing light armor, medium armor, or no armor. A helpless brawler does not gain the benefit of the stalwart ability.

Body of the Bull (Ex): At 11th level, a brawler gains immunity to poisons of all kinds.

Fuel the Fire (Ex): At 12th level, a brawler can fuel his tenacity with every punishment he doles out. Whenever the brawler confirms a critical hit or fells a opponent he gains back 1 dt point.
Inner Fire (Ex): At 13th level, a brawler gains spell resistance equal to his current brawler level + 10. In order to affect the brawler with a spell, a spellcaster must get a result on a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) that equals or exceeds the brawler's spell resistance.

True Strength (Su): At 15th level, a brawler gains immunity to fear as well as DR 1/- witch increases to DR2/- at 17th level and to DR3/- at 19th level. These ability's only function when the brawler has at least one dirty trick point to use.

Tireless Body (Ex): At 17th level, a Brawler no longer takes penalties to his ability scores for aging and cannot be magically aged. Any such penalties that he has already taken, however, remain in place. Age bonuses still accrue, and the brawler still dies of old age when his time is up.

Eye of the Storm: At 20th level, a brawler becomes as impassive as stone. The brawler gains a +2 insight bonus to AC and CMD and a +4 bonus on Perception checks. In addition his DR increases to DR5/-.
Ex-Brawlers

A monk who becomes non chaotic cannot gain new levels as a brawler but retains all monk abilities.

Whats was changed from monk:

Fast movement was replaced by d2 hp/level.

AC and CMD Bonus for wisdom was replaced with medium armor and the buckler. The brawler does gain +1 CMD every four levels like the monk. He does not gain +1 AC every four levels.

Tough as Nails replaces the reflex save that was lost.

Evasion replaced with uncanny dodge.

Slowfall was replaced with bastion defense as per monk of the sacred mountain.

High jump was replaced with Iron limb defense as per monk of the sacred mountain.

Purity of the Body was replaced with improved uncanny dodge.

Improved evasion replaced with Stalwart.

Abundant Leap replaced with life from the stone from Hungry ghost monk.

True Strength replaces quivering palm.

Tounge of the Sun and the Moon removed.

Empty body removed.

Eye of the storm replaces perfect self.

Slight Changes to available bonus feats:

Lvl 2: Deflect arrows and throw anything removed, endurance added.

Lvl 6: Improved Trip removed Improved Dirty trick and Diehard added.

Questions and thoughts about the game:

Any citys where there alot of dualing? Gladitorial sport etc?

I wanna be honest, ive been working on something similar because I hate the flavor of the monk. A martial artist is the same flavor. This class just seems like a reason to throw in some new rules and make it a tad broken. I guess i dont get it.

I really really hope this a joke, im praying it is but its not. Ohh god kill me.

Brawler
The brawler is fighter of the purest form. He revels in combat, confrontation, and the lamentation of his enemy's. Experts at using there body to strike in wild and dirty combat styles that are almost impossible to train as opposed to learn through harsh experience .

Role: The brawler can often fit the role of a traditional fighter better then that of the quick and disciplined monk. Examples of the brawler could be found in a rowdy tavern, a gladiatorial arena, or as a wild man of the woods.

Alignment: Any chaotic.

Hit Die: d10.
Class Skills

The brawler's class skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Perception (Wis), Ride (Dex), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str).

Skill Ranks per Level: 4 + Int modifier.
Table: Monk Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special Flurry of Blows Attack Bonus Unarmed Damage CMD Bonus
1st +0 +2 +|0
+2 Bonus feat, flurry of blows, stunning fist, unarmed strike
–1/ –1 1d6 +0
2nd +1 +3 +0 +3 Bonus feat, Uncanny Dodge
+0/ +0 1d6 +0
3rd +2 +3 +1 +3 Maneuver training, angry mind +1/ +1 1d6 +0
4th +3 +4 +1 +4 dt pool (Ex), Bastion Stance +2/ +2 1d8 +1
5th +3 +4 +1 +4 Iron Limb Defense, Improved
Uncanny Dodge
+3/ +3 1d8 +1
6th +4 +5 +2 +5 Bonus feat +4/ +4/ –1 1d8 +1
7th +5 +5 +2 +5 Pull from Hidden Reserves
+5/+5/+0 1d8 +1
8th +6/+1 +6 +2 +6
+6/ +6/ +1/ +1 1d10 +2
9th +6/+1 +6 +3 +6 Stalwart
+7/ +7/ +2/ +2 1d10 +2
10th +7/+2 +7 +3 +7 Bonus feat, dt pool (chaotic) +8/ +8/ +3/ +3 1d10 +2
11th +8/+3 +7 +3 +7 Body of the Bull
+9/+9/+4/+4/–1 1d10 +2
12th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Fuel the Fire +10/ +10/ +5/ +5/ +0 2d6 +3
13th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Inner Fire
+11/ +11/ +6/ +6/ +1 2d6 +3
14th +10/+5 +9 +4 +9 Bonus feat +12/ +12/ +7/ +7/ +2 2d6 +3
15th +11/+6/+1 +9 +5 +9 True Strength
+13/ +13/ +8/ +8/ +3/ +3 2d6 +3
16th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Dt pool (adamantine) +14/ +14/ +9/ +9/ +4/ +4/ –1 2d8 +4
17th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Tireless Body +15/ +15/ +10/ +10/ +5/ +5/ +0 2d8 +4
18th +13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 Bonus feat +16/ +16/ +11/ +11/ +6/ +6/ +1 2d8 +4
19th +14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11
+17/ +17/ +12/ +12/ +7/ +7/ +2 2d8 +4
20th +15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Eye of the Storm
+18/ +18/ +13/ +13/ +8/ +8/ +3 2d10 +5
Class Features

All of the following are class features of the monk.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Brawlers are proficient with the club, crossbow (light or heavy), dagger, handaxe, javelin, quarterstaff, shortspear, short sword, sling, maces, bladed gauntlet and spear.

Brawlers can wear medium armor and use a buckler.

Combat Maneuver Defense: A brawler gains +1 to his CMD every four levels. However he does not gain his wisdom bonus to ac or to his CMD like the monk.
Flurry of Blows (Ex): Starting at 1st level, a monk can make a flurry of blows as a full-attack action. When doing so he may make one additional attack using any combination of unarmed strikes or attacks with a special brawler weapon (Hand axe, throwing axe, bladed gauntlet and maces) as if using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat). For the purpose of these attacks, the brawler's base attack bonus is equal to his brawler level. For all other purposes, such as qualifying for a feat or a prestige class, the brawler uses his normal base attack bonus.

At 8th level, the brawler can make two additional attacks when he uses flurry of blows, as if using Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat).

At 15th level, the brawler can make three additional attacks using flurry of blows, as if using Greater Two-Weapon Fighting (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat).

A brawler applies his full Strength bonus to his damage rolls for all successful attacks made with flurry of blows, whether the attacks are made with an off-hand or with a weapon wielded in both hands. A brawler may substitute disarm, sunder, and grapple combat maneuvers for unarmed attacks as part of a flurry of blows. A brawler cannot use any weapon other than an unarmed strike or a special brawler weapon as part of a flurry of blows. A brawler with natural weapons cannot use such weapons as part of a flurry of blows, nor can he make natural attacks in addition to his flurry of blows attacks.

Unarmed Strike: At 1st level, a brawler gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A brawler's attacks may be with fist, elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a brawler may make unarmed strikes with his hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a brawler striking unarmed. A brawler may thus apply his full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all his unarmed strikes.

Usually a brawler's unarmed strikes deal lethal damage, but he can choose to deal nonlethal damage instead with no penalty on his attack roll. He has the same choice to deal lethal or nonlethal damage while grappling.

A brawler's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

Abrawler also deals more damage with his unarmed strikes than a normal person would, as shown above on Table: Monk. The unarmed damage values listed on Table: brawler is for Medium monks. A Small brawler deals less damage than the amount given there with his unarmed attacks, while a Large brawler deals more damage; see Small or Large brawler Unarmed Damage on the table given below.
Small or Large Monk Unarmed Damage Level Damage (Small Monk) Damage (Large Brawler)
1st–3rd 1d4 1d8
4th–7th 1d6 2d6
8th–11th 1d8 2d8
12th–15th 1d10 3d6
16th–19th 2d6 3d8
20th 2d8 4d8

Bonus Feat: At 1st level, 2nd level, and every 4 levels thereafter, a brawler may select a bonus feat. These feats must be taken from the following list: Catch Off-Guard, Combat Reflexes, Endurance, Dodge, Improved Grapple, and Scorpion Style, . At 6th level, the following feats are added to the list: Gorgon's Fist, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Disarm, Improved Feint, Improved Dirty Trick, Diehard and Mobility. At 10th level, the following feats are added to the list: Improved Critical, Medusa's Wrath, Snatch Arrows, and Spring Attack. A brawler need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats to select them..

Stunning Fist (Ex): At 1st level, the brawler gains Stunning Fist as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. At 4th level, and every 4 levels thereafter, the brawler gains the ability to apply a new condition to the target of his Stunning Fist. This condition replaces stunning the target for 1 round, and a successful saving throw still negates the effect. At 4th level, he can choose to make the target fatigued. At 8th level, he can make the target sickened for 1 minute. At 12th level, he can make the target staggered for 1d6+1 rounds. At 16th level, he can permanently blind or deafen the target. At 20th level, he can paralyze the target for 1d6+1 rounds. brawler must choose which condition will apply before the attack roll is made. These effects do not stack with themselves (a creature sickened by Stunning Fist cannot become nauseated if hit by Stunning Fist again), but additional hits do increase the duration.

Tough as Nails (Ex): The brawler gains +3 hit points at 1st level and additional hit point per additional level.

Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 2nd level, a brawler gains the ability to react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She cannot be caught flat-footed, even if the attacker is invisible. She still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. A brawler with this ability can still lose her Dexterity bonus to AC if an opponent successfully uses the feint action against her.

If a brawler already has uncanny dodge from a different class, she automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see below) instead.

Maneuver Training (Ex): At 3rd level, a brawler uses his brawler level in place of his base attack bonus when calculating his Combat Maneuver Bonus. Base attack bonuses granted from other classes are unaffected and are added normally.

Angry Mind (Ex): A brawler of 3rd level or higher gains a +2 bonus on saving throws against enchantment spells and effects.

Dirty Tricks (DT) Pool(Ex): At 4th level, a brawler gains a pool of dt points, energy he can use to accomplish amazing feats. The number of points in a brawler's dt pool is equal to 1/2 his brawler level + his Constitution modifier. As long as he has at least 1 point in his dt pool, he can make a dt strike. At 4th level, dt strike allows his unarmed attacks to be treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Dt strike improves with the character's brawler level. At 10th level, his unarmed attacks are also treated as chaotic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. At 16th level, his unarmed attacks are treated as adamantine weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction and bypassing hardness.

By spending 1 point from his dt pool, a brawler can make one additional attack at his highest attack bonus when making a flurry of blows attack. In addition, he can spend 1 point to increase his speed by 20 feet for 1 round. Finally, a monk can spend 1 point from his dt pool to give himself a +4 dodge bonus to AC for 1 round. Each of these powers is activated as a swift action. A brawler gains additional powers that consume points from his dt pool as he gains levels.

The dt pool is replenished each morning after 8 hours of rest ; these hours do not need to be consecutive.

Bastion Stance (Ex): Bastion Stance (Ex): At 4th level, a brawler becomes like stone, nearly impossible to movewhen he stands his ground. If the brawler starts and ends his turn in the same space, he cannot be knocked prone or forcibly moved until the start of his next turn, except by mind-affecting or teleportation effects. At 16th level, he is immune to any attempts to force him to move, even mind-affecting and teleportation effects.

Iron Limb Defense (Ex): At 5th level, a brawler can def lect blows with an active defense that complements his bastion stance. If the brawler starts and ends his turn in the same space, he gains a +2 shield bonus to AC and CMD until the start of his next turn. As a swift action, he can spend 1 dt point to increase this bonus to +4

Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 5th level and higher, a brawler can no longer be flanked. This defense denies a rogue the ability to sneak attack the brawler by flanking her, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target has brawler levels.

If a character already has uncanny dodge (see above) from another class, the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum rogue level required to flank the character.

Pull from Hidden Reserves (Ex): At 7th level or higher, a brawler can heal his own wounds as a standard action. He can heal a number of hit points of damage equal to his brawler level by using 2 points from his dt pool.

Stalwart (Ex): At 9th level, an brawler can use mental and physical resiliency to avoid certain attacks. If he makes a Fortitude or Will saving throw against an attack that has a reduced effect on a successful save, he instead avoids the effect entirely. This ability can only be used if the brawler is wearing light armor, medium armor, or no armor. A helpless brawler does not gain the benefit of the stalwart ability.

Body of the Bull (Ex): At 11th level, a brawler gains immunity to poisons of all kinds.

Fuel the Fire (Ex): At 12th level, a brawler can fuel his tenacity with every punishment he doles out. Whenever the brawler confirms a critical hit or fells a opponent he gains back 1 dt point.
Inner Fire (Ex): At 13th level, a brawler gains spell resistance equal to his current brawler level + 10. In order to affect the brawler with a spell, a spellcaster must get a result on a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) that equals or exceeds the brawler's spell resistance.

True Strength (Su): At 15th level, a brawler gains immunity to fear as well as DR 1/- witch increases to DR2/- at 17th level and to DR3/- at 19th level. These ability's only function when the brawler has at least one dirty trick point to use.

Tireless Body (Ex): At 17th level, a Brawler no longer takes penalties to his ability scores for aging and cannot be magically aged. Any such penalties that he has already taken, however, remain in place. Age bonuses still accrue, and the brawler still dies of old age when his time is up.

Eye of the Storm: At 20th level, a brawler becomes as impassive as stone. The brawler gains a +2 insight bonus to AC and CMD and a +4 bonus on Perception checks. In addition his DR increases to DR5/-.
Ex-Brawlers

A monk who becomes non chaotic cannot gain new levels as a brawler but retains all monk abilities.

Whats was changed from monk:

Fast movement was replaced by d2 hp/level.

AC and CMD Bonus for wisdom was replaced with medium armor and the buckler. The brawler does gain +1 CMD every four levels like the monk. He does not gain +1 AC every four levels.

Tough as Nails replaces the reflex save that was lost.

Evasion replaced with uncanny dodge.

Slowfall was replaced with bastion defense as per monk of the sacred mountain.

High jump was replaced with Iron limb defense as per monk of the sacred mountain.

Purity of the Body was replaced with improved uncanny dodge.

Improved evasion replaced with Stalwart.

Abundant Leap replaced with life from the stone from Hungry ghost monk.

True Strength replaces quivering palm.

Tounge of the Sun and the Moon removed.

Empty body removed.

Eye of the storm replaces perfect self.

Slight Changes to available bonus feats:

Lvl 2: Deflect arrows and throw anything removed, endurance added.

Lvl 6: Improved Trip removed Improved Dirty trick and Diehard added.

Thats what I meant, as opposed 2 monk which is d8 the class just has a d10 hd instead of fast movement. It also has fighter reflex saves. The loss of reflex save and fast movement I figured was worth slightly better hit die and the toughness feat at 1st.

This is a chaotic monk variant. Any questions or comments feel free to email me at rforsber1@mail.com.

Brawler
The brawler is fighter of the purest form. He revels in combat, confrontation, and the lamentation of his enemy's. Experts at using there body to strike in wild and dirty combat styles that are almost impossible to train as opposed to learn through harsh experience .

Role: The brawler can often fit the role of a traditional fighter better then that of the quick and disciplined monk. Examples of the brawler could be found in a rowdy tavern, a gladiatorial arena, or as a wild man of the woods.

Alignment: Any chaotic.

Hit Die: d10.
Class Skills

The brawler's class skills are Acrobatics (Dex), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (nature) (Int), Perception (Wis), Ride (Dex), Survival (Wis), and Swim (Str).

Skill Ranks per Level: 4 + Int modifier.
Table: Monk Level Base Attack Bonus Fort Save Ref Save Will Save Special Flurry of Blows Attack Bonus Unarmed Damage CMD Bonus
1st +0 +2 +|0
+2 Bonus feat, flurry of blows, stunning fist, unarmed strike
–1/ –1 1d6 +0
2nd +1 +3 +0 +3 Bonus feat, Uncanny Dodge
+0/ +0 1d6 +0
3rd +2 +3 +1 +3 Maneuver training, angry mind +1/ +1 1d6 +0
4th +3 +4 +1 +4 dt pool (Ex), Bastion Stance +2/ +2 1d8 +1
5th +3 +4 +1 +4 Iron Limb Defense, Improved
Uncanny Dodge
+3/ +3 1d8 +1
6th +4 +5 +2 +5 Bonus feat +4/ +4/ –1 1d8 +1
7th +5 +5 +2 +5 Pull from Hidden Reserves
+5/+5/+0 1d8 +1
8th +6/+1 +6 +2 +6
+6/ +6/ +1/ +1 1d10 +2
9th +6/+1 +6 +3 +6 Stalwart
+7/ +7/ +2/ +2 1d10 +2
10th +7/+2 +7 +3 +7 Bonus feat, dt pool (chaotic) +8/ +8/ +3/ +3 1d10 +2
11th +8/+3 +7 +3 +7 Body of the Bull
+9/+9/+4/+4/–1 1d10 +2
12th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Fuel the Fire +10/ +10/ +5/ +5/ +0 2d6 +3
13th +9/+4 +8 +4 +8 Inner Fire
+11/ +11/ +6/ +6/ +1 2d6 +3
14th +10/+5 +9 +4 +9 Bonus feat +12/ +12/ +7/ +7/ +2 2d6 +3
15th +11/+6/+1 +9 +5 +9 True Strength
+13/ +13/ +8/ +8/ +3/ +3 2d6 +3
16th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Dt pool (adamantine) +14/ +14/ +9/ +9/ +4/ +4/ –1 2d8 +4
17th +12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +10 Tireless Body +15/ +15/ +10/ +10/ +5/ +5/ +0 2d8 +4
18th +13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +11 Bonus feat +16/ +16/ +11/ +11/ +6/ +6/ +1 2d8 +4
19th +14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +11
+17/ +17/ +12/ +12/ +7/ +7/ +2 2d8 +4
20th +15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +12 Eye of the Storm
+18/ +18/ +13/ +13/ +8/ +8/ +3 2d10 +5
Class Features

All of the following are class features of the monk.

Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Brawlers are proficient with the club, crossbow (light or heavy), dagger, handaxe, javelin, quarterstaff, shortspear, short sword, sling, maces, bladed gauntlet and spear.

Brawlers can wear medium armor and use a buckler.

Combat Maneuver Defense: A brawler gains +1 to his CMD every four levels. However he does not gain his wisdom bonus to ac or to his CMD like the monk.
Flurry of Blows (Ex): Starting at 1st level, a monk can make a flurry of blows as a full-attack action. When doing so he may make one additional attack using any combination of unarmed strikes or attacks with a special brawler weapon (Hand axe, throwing axe, bladed gauntlet and maces) as if using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat). For the purpose of these attacks, the brawler's base attack bonus is equal to his brawler level. For all other purposes, such as qualifying for a feat or a prestige class, the brawler uses his normal base attack bonus.

At 8th level, the brawler can make two additional attacks when he uses flurry of blows, as if using Improved Two-Weapon Fighting (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat).

At 15th level, the brawler can make three additional attacks using flurry of blows, as if using Greater Two-Weapon Fighting (even if the monk does not meet the prerequisites for the feat).

A brawler applies his full Strength bonus to his damage rolls for all successful attacks made with flurry of blows, whether the attacks are made with an off-hand or with a weapon wielded in both hands. A brawler may substitute disarm, sunder, and grapple combat maneuvers for unarmed attacks as part of a flurry of blows. A brawler cannot use any weapon other than an unarmed strike or a special brawler weapon as part of a flurry of blows. A brawler with natural weapons cannot use such weapons as part of a flurry of blows, nor can he make natural attacks in addition to his flurry of blows attacks.

Unarmed Strike: At 1st level, a brawler gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A brawler's attacks may be with fist, elbows, knees, and feet. This means that a brawler may make unarmed strikes with his hands full. There is no such thing as an off-hand attack for a brawler striking unarmed. A brawler may thus apply his full Strength bonus on damage rolls for all his unarmed strikes.

Usually a brawler's unarmed strikes deal lethal damage, but he can choose to deal nonlethal damage instead with no penalty on his attack roll. He has the same choice to deal lethal or nonlethal damage while grappling.

A brawler's unarmed strike is treated as both a manufactured weapon and a natural weapon for the purpose of spells and effects that enhance or improve either manufactured weapons or natural weapons.

Abrawler also deals more damage with his unarmed strikes than a normal person would, as shown above on Table: Monk. The unarmed damage values listed on Table: brawler is for Medium monks. A Small brawler deals less damage than the amount given there with his unarmed attacks, while a Large brawler deals more damage; see Small or Large brawler Unarmed Damage on the table given below.
Small or Large Monk Unarmed Damage Level Damage (Small Monk) Damage (Large Brawler)
1st–3rd 1d4 1d8
4th–7th 1d6 2d6
8th–11th 1d8 2d8
12th–15th 1d10 3d6
16th–19th 2d6 3d8
20th 2d8 4d8

Bonus Feat: At 1st level, 2nd level, and every 4 levels thereafter, a brawler may select a bonus feat. These feats must be taken from the following list: Catch Off-Guard, Combat Reflexes, Endurance, Dodge, Improved Grapple, and Scorpion Style, . At 6th level, the following feats are added to the list: Gorgon's Fist, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Disarm, Improved Feint, Improved Dirty Trick, Diehard and Mobility. At 10th level, the following feats are added to the list: Improved Critical, Medusa's Wrath, Snatch Arrows, and Spring Attack. A brawler need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats to select them.

Stunning Fist (Ex): At 1st level, the brawler gains Stunning Fist as a bonus feat, even if he does not meet the prerequisites. At 4th level, and every 4 levels thereafter, the brawler gains the ability to apply a new condition to the target of his Stunning Fist. This condition replaces stunning the target for 1 round, and a successful saving throw still negates the effect. At 4th level, he can choose to make the target fatigued. At 8th level, he can make the target sickened for 1 minute. At 12th level, he can make the target staggered for 1d6+1 rounds. At 16th level, he can permanently blind or deafen the target. At 20th level, he can paralyze the target for 1d6+1 rounds. brawler must choose which condition will apply before the attack roll is made. These effects do not stack with themselves (a creature sickened by Stunning Fist cannot become nauseated if hit by Stunning Fist again), but additional hits do increase the duration.

Tough as Nails (Ex): The brawler gains +3 hit points at 1st level and additional hit point per additional level.

Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 2nd level, a brawler gains the ability to react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She cannot be caught flat-footed, even if the attacker is invisible. She still loses her Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. A brawler with this ability can still lose her Dexterity bonus to AC if an opponent successfully uses the feint action against her.

If a brawler already has uncanny dodge from a different class, she automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see below) instead.

Maneuver Training (Ex): At 3rd level, a brawler uses his brawler level in place of his base attack bonus when calculating his Combat Maneuver Bonus. Base attack bonuses granted from other classes are unaffected and are added normally.

Angry Mind (Ex): A brawler of 3rd level or higher gains a +2 bonus on saving throws against enchantment spells and effects.

Dirty Tricks (DT) Pool(Ex): At 4th level, a brawler gains a pool of dt points, energy he can use to accomplish amazing feats. The number of points in a brawler's dt pool is equal to 1/2 his brawler level + his Constitution modifier. As long as he has at least 1 point in his dt pool, he can make a dt strike. At 4th level, dt strike allows his unarmed attacks to be treated as magic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Dt strike improves with the character's brawler level. At 10th level, his unarmed attacks are also treated as chaotic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. At 16th level, his unarmed attacks are treated as adamantine weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction and bypassing hardness.

By spending 1 point from his dt pool, a brawler can make one additional attack at his highest attack bonus when making a flurry of blows attack. In addition, he can spend 1 point to increase his speed by 20 feet for 1 round. Finally, a monk can spend 1 point from his dt pool to give himself a +4 dodge bonus to AC for 1 round. Each of these powers is activated as a swift action. A brawler gains additional powers that consume points from his dt pool as he gains levels.

The dt pool is replenished each morning after 8 hours of rest ; these hours do not need to be consecutive.

Bastion Stance (Ex): Bastion Stance (Ex): At 4th level, a brawler becomes like stone, nearly impossible to movewhen he stands his ground. If the brawler starts and ends his turn in the same space, he cannot be knocked prone or forcibly moved until the start of his next turn, except by mind-affecting or teleportation effects. At 16th level, he is immune to any attempts to force him to move, even mind-affecting and teleportation effects.

Iron Limb Defense (Ex): At 5th level, a brawler can def lect blows with an active defense that complements his bastion stance. If the brawler starts and ends his turn in the same space, he gains a +2 shield bonus to AC and CMD until the start of his next turn. As a swift action, he can spend 1 dt point to increase this bonus to +4

Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): At 5th level and higher, a brawler can no longer be flanked. This defense denies a rogue the ability to sneak attack the brawler by flanking her, unless the attacker has at least four more rogue levels than the target has brawler levels.

If a character already has uncanny dodge (see above) from another class, the levels from the classes that grant uncanny dodge stack to determine the minimum rogue level required to flank the character.

Pull from Hidden Reserves (Ex): At 7th level or higher, a brawler can heal his own wounds as a standard action. He can heal a number of hit points of damage equal to his brawler level by using 2 points from his dt pool.

Stalwart (Ex): At 9th level, an brawler can use mental and physical resiliency to avoid certain attacks. If he makes a Fortitude or Will saving throw against an attack that has a reduced effect on a successful save, he instead avoids the effect entirely. This ability can only be used if the brawler is wearing light armor, medium armor, or no armor. A helpless brawler does not gain the benefit of the stalwart ability.

Body of the Bull (Ex): At 11th level, a brawler gains immunity to poisons of all kinds.

Fuel the Fire (Ex): At 12th level, a brawler can fuel his tenacity with every punishment he doles out. Whenever the brawler confirms a critical hit or fells a opponent he gains back 1 dt point.
Inner Fire (Ex): At 13th level, a brawler gains spell resistance equal to his current brawler level + 10. In order to affect the brawler with a spell, a spellcaster must get a result on a caster level check (1d20 + caster level) that equals or exceeds the brawler's spell resistance.

True Strength (Su): At 15th level, a brawler gains immunity to fear as well as DR 1/- witch increases to DR2/- at 17th level and to DR3/- at 19th level. These ability's only function when the brawler has at least one dirty trick point to use.

Tireless Body (Ex): At 17th level, a Brawler no longer takes penalties to his ability scores for aging and cannot be magically aged. Any such penalties that he has already taken, however, remain in place. Age bonuses still accrue, and the brawler still dies of old age when his time is up.

Eye of the Storm: At 20th level, a brawler becomes as impassive as stone. The brawler gains a +2 insight bonus to AC and CMD and a +4 bonus on Perception checks. In addition his DR increases to DR5/-.
Ex-Brawlers

A monk who becomes non chaotic cannot gain new levels as a brawler but retains all monk abilities.

Whats was changed from monk:

Fast movement was replaced by d2 hp/level.

AC and CMD Bonus for wisdom was replaced with medium armor and the buckler. The brawler does gain +1 CMD every four levels like the monk. He does not gain +1 AC every four levels.

Tough as Nails replaces the reflex save that was lost.

Evasion replaced with uncanny dodge.

Slowfall was replaced with bastion defense as per monk of the sacred mountain.

High jump was replaced with Iron limb defense as per monk of the sacred mountain.

Purity of the Body was replaced with improved uncanny dodge.

Improved evasion replaced with Stalwart.

Abundant Leap replaced with life from the stone from Hungry ghost monk.

True Strength replaces quivering palm.

Tounge of the Sun and the Moon removed.

Empty body removed.

Eye of the storm replaces perfect self.

Slight Changes to available bonus feats:

Lvl 2: Deflect arrows and throw anything removed, endurance added.

Lvl 6: Improved Trip removed Improved Dirty trick and Diehard added.