Getting Aspect of the Beast without a ranger or druid class?

[Zhai]

I was wondering if takeing the feat "Racial Heritage" from the APG would quilify someone to the feat "Aspect of the Beast".

I lean towards yes simply because in the special section in the feat's discription says: "A character that has contracted lycanthropy can take this feat without having to meet the prerequisites (even if he does not select Aspect of the Beast as a bonus feat)"

I was thinking that takeing Racial Heritage and selection any lycanthrope race would qualify me for "Aspect of the Beast"

Any thoughts?

thanks,

Zhai

[Dragonborn3]

Lycanthropy isn't a race though, it's a template, so I'd have to say no. Sorry.

Other opinions may vary of course.

[Abraham spalding]

Dragonborn3 wrote:

Lycanthropy isn't a race though, it's a template, so I'd have to say no. Sorry.

Other opinions may vary of course.

Lycanthropes breed true. Also Lycanthropes are listed by theirselves in the humanoid category -- not in the templates.

[mdt]

Dragonborn3 wrote:

Lycanthropy isn't a race though, it's a template, so I'd have to say no. Sorry.

Other opinions may vary of course.

*sigh*

Lycanthropy is both a race and a template. It's a templated race. The definition of a race is a species which breeds true. Lycanthropes do, and thus are a race.

In other words, if you have a mommy human werewolf, and a daddy human werewolf, you get a human baby werewolf.

Where it get's complicated is the other pairing possibilities.

Mommy elf werewolf + daddy human werewolf = baby half-elf werewolf
Mommy dwarf werebear + daddy dwarf = either baby dwarf werebear, or baby dwarf
Mommy elf werewolf + daddy human wereboar = baby half-elf werewolf or baby half-elf wereboar.

[Dragonborn3]

It's virus that causes genetic mutation... I just don't them as a race all on their own.

[Abraham spalding]

Dragonborn3 wrote:

It's virus that causes genetic mutation... I just don't them as a race all on their own.

What is gotten and what section we are in aren't nessecarily the same of course.

However consider it like the sorcerer bloodlines. That should help with the understanding.

Also genetic mutation is the very basis of race in most cases. Otherwise it wouldn't be something different. It's not even a virus anymore... it's an "affliction". Finally consider the fact that no matter *where* the change comes from if it breeds true then it is a new race.

After all the drow are just a "mutation" but that doesn't mean they aren't a race too.

Same for the mongrelfolk, gillmen, etc.

[bittergeek]

Even if lycanthrope were permitted as a choice for the racial heritage feat, you still wouldn't qualify for the aspect of the beast feat. It requires a) wild shape, b) contracting lycanthropy, or c) ranger with the natural weapon combat style. A lycanthropic racial heritage doesn't give you lycanthropy (or it would be an awesome feat), so you don't meet the prereqs for aspect of the beast because of it.

[Zhai]

bittergeek wrote:

Even if lycanthrope were permitted as a choice for the racial heritage feat, you still wouldn't qualify for the aspect of the beast feat. It requires a) wild shape, b) contracting lycanthropy, or c) ranger with the natural weapon combat style. A lycanthropic racial heritage doesn't give you lycanthropy (or it would be an awesome feat), so you don't meet the prereqs for aspect of the beast because of it.

What about Racial Heritage it says:"Choose antoher humanoid race. You count as both human and that race for any effects related to race. For example, if you choose dwarf, you are considered both a human and a dwarf for the purpose of taking traits, feats, how spells and magic items affect you, and so on."

Doesn't that mean I would count as a Lycanthrope only for the porpose of taking traits, feats, and spell effects? BUt, I would not gain any other Lycanthrope abilities.

Zhai

[bittergeek]

Zhai wrote:

bittergeek wrote:

Even if lycanthrope were permitted as a choice for the racial heritage feat, you still wouldn't qualify for the aspect of the beast feat. It requires a) wild shape, b) contracting lycanthropy, or c) ranger with the natural weapon combat style. A lycanthropic racial heritage doesn't give you lycanthropy (or it would be an awesome feat), so you don't meet the prereqs for aspect of the beast because of it.

What about Racial Heritage it says:"Choose antoher humanoid race. You count as both human and that race for any effects related to race. For example, if you choose dwarf, you are considered both a human and a dwarf for the purpose of taking traits, feats, how spells and magic items affect you, and so on."

Doesn't that mean I would count as a Lycanthrope only for the porpose of taking traits, feats, and spell effects? BUt, I would not gain any other Lycanthrope abilities.

Zhai

The prereqs for Aspect of the Beast don't ask if you count as a lycanthrope, it only cares if you have actually contracted lycanthropy. Racial Heritage doesn't give you the disease, so it doesn't help. The requirements for AotB were written in an oddly specific manner - if anyone who was a lycanthrope or counted as one due to RH could take the feat, a simple "or lycanthrope" would have been added to the prereq line of the feat. Instead, there is the much narrower "A character who has contracted lycanthropy can take this feat without having to meet the prerequisites" tacked on in the Special section. This strange way of addressing the lycanthropy question seems designed to rule out Racial Heritage without explicitly saying so.

The Rules Minions from Paizo need to address this, though, since I'm really pretty sure that lycanthrope isn't intended to be a valid choice of humanoid race for the Racial Heritage feat.

[Jayboy75]

Agreed, I'd like to hear an official ruling on this. Under the Racial Heritage feat, you could choose Werewolf since it's a humanoid race - CE Medium humanoid (human, shapechanger). Werewolves are lycanthropes, and therefore it seems this would be the deciding factor. Does taking Racial Heritage > Werewolf then entitle you to take Aspect of the Beast?

[Driver 325 yards]

After hearing the arguments listed above, it is apparent that the answer is yes. Really, the only interesting argument for why one would not apply for Aspect of the Beast through the clever use of the Racial Hertiage Feat is the "contracting lycantrophy" argument.

However, upon close examination, that argument doesn't hold water. If the words "contracting lycantrophy" was meant to limit Aspect of the Beast to only those who contracted the disease, then those who were born werewolves would not qualify. Only those who became werewolves by becoming infected would. THIS IS AN ABSURD RESULT.

Further, the Racial Heritiage feat was made for just the purpose outlined above. (i.e. "Choose antoher humanoid race. You count as both human and that race for any effects related to race. For example, if you choose dwarf, you are considered both a human and a dwarf for the purpose of taking traits, feats, how spells and magic items affect you, and so on.")

Even more, the use of the Racial Heritage Feat to qualify for Aspect of the Beast is balanced. Assuming you took Racial Heritage at 1st level, you would not be able to take Aspect of the Beast until 3rd. Rangers could get Aspect of the Beast at 2nd level.

Given a rational interpretation of Aspect of the Beast's use of the phrase "contracted lycantrophy", the explicited wording of Racial Heritage, and the balanced result --- why the heck not?

Any other ruling is just the actions of a heavy handed paranoid DM.

[Stubs McKenzie]

Or someone reading the rules for their RAW value... it may not matter in some home games (yours or mine) but it very well might in others, and since this is the rules forum, where absurdity sometimes is a way of life, it seems a bit overzealous to call folks heavy handed and paranoid

[idwraith]

There is a distinction between Natural Lycanthrop and Cursed in the Bestiary, I'd suggest reading up on the sections there and then talking to your DM, it's definitely a judgement call.

[Talonhawke]

Lycanthrophes race is still techniclly their humanoid form so a werewolf who is a human when not changed is a human(humanoid type both shapechanger and human subtypes)