Converting Kingmaker: Rivers Run Red (Chapter 2) for 6 PC's.


Kingmaker

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Hi I am new to DMing and am running this AP with 5 or 6 palyers depending on who turns up on the night.
I just come across this post and I am really impressed in the hard work you lot have put into the convertion GREAT WORK.
For some reason I am not able to get into chapter 3 could someone please help me to be able to open it as all of these convertion will be a bible to me in the next year to come.
Thanks Tom

Sovereign Court

Hmm thats odd. Have you tried the links in the stickied topic? (Community created etc...)


Just checked that out and it opened thanks Alex, and again GREAT WORK very helpful.


First off. Thank you bunches for doing these conversions. I've enjoyed them immensely. I spend a lot of time preparing for my sessions and generally have to increase the CR myself which takes sooooo much time as I'm newer to DMing Pathfinder.

With these adjustments to match six adventurers, has anyone noticed that some of the solo creatures are just plain... ouch. I currently have some players complaining now about how hard creatures are.

The first encounter with the werewolf was not too hard, but when I confirmed a crit with his greataxe on our ranger. It straight out killed her. In the book his average crit damage would be somewhere around 34, on a class that has d10's for hit points, that type of hit would most likely just knock them unconscious or they would have a few hit points left.

With the modified version the average crit damage is somewhere around 52 which is straight up kill zone, even for d10's with decent CON.

Now they ran into the modified Scythe Tree and I wasn't going to be mean enough to have all four attacks hit the same target (unless there wasn't anyone else in range). This usually equated to two attacks each on two targets. I killed another character this combat with two crits, one each round, back to back rounds. Given that there are four attacks a round from this tree it is obviously more probable to get crits. The rogue in the party acted like a little ***** when it was evident to him that this tree had a very high AC (24, 22 when it had the opportunity to cleave). The rogue didn't land a single blow the entire fight.

Should I just roll with the idea that crits are crits and players generally die from them? And ignore the rogue for not rolling over a 14 on a monster with 24 or 22 AC?

Sovereign Court

Hi KwwB,

I've almost finished running my group of six through my conversion via PbP and although we've had no deaths the half-orc rangers getting regular use out of his ferocity ability and Nagrundi would have killed the Paladin if not for a Heroic Defiance spell he had prepared.

In short though- the monsters being this ouch is intentional. I tried to preserve the spirit of the encounters so solo fights have to be incredibly dangerous with a chance of an instant kill or they simply don't have enough ooomph to compete with a party of six- if they don't have a decent chance of dropping a PC every round they simply aren't a credible threat to the six of them.

About to go out now but i'll post more thoughts on this later.

Alex

Sovereign Court

I think I pretty much summed up my thoughts in the above post actually. It sounds like your party needs to work on their tactics a bit; yes things have better defences in the conversions but they have six actions for every one of the solo monster; more chances for buff spell, debuffs, more flanking, more synergy between abilities...

Essentially, if something is powerful enough to be taking on six adventurers, it needs to be tough enough to slay any one of them with ease. Thats essentially the main reason adventuring parties are formed rather than lone rangers.

Grand Lodge

Alexander Kilcoyne wrote:

I think I pretty much summed up my thoughts in the above post actually. It sounds like your party needs to work on their tactics a bit; yes things have better defences in the conversions but they have six actions for every one of the solo monster; more chances for buff spell, debuffs, more flanking, more synergy between abilities...

Essentially, if something is powerful enough to be taking on six adventurers, it needs to be tough enough to slay any one of them with ease. Thats essentially the main reason adventuring parties are formed rather than lone rangers.

Absolutely! Economy of action is hell on solo bosses!


It really is and truth be told, i've got a little tired of KM's tendency on solo bosses in the early chapters. Theres a bit more scope for minions and lots of combatants in later chapters which is sorely needed.

Grand Lodge

DM Alexander Kilcoyne wrote:
It really is and truth be told, i've got a little tired of KM's tendency on solo bosses in the early chapters. Theres a bit more scope for minions and lots of combatants in later chapters which is sorely needed.

Alexander, I love your work! I just throw more not so random encounters before the 'bosses' in the first 2 books.

Grand Lodge

KwwB wrote:

First off. Thank you bunches for doing these conversions. I've enjoyed them immensely. I spend a lot of time preparing for my sessions and generally have to increase the CR myself which takes sooooo much time as I'm newer to DMing Pathfinder.

With these adjustments to match six adventurers, has anyone noticed that some of the solo creatures are just plain... ouch. I currently have some players complaining now about how hard creatures are.

The first encounter with the werewolf was not too hard, but when I confirmed a crit with his greataxe on our ranger. It straight out killed her. In the book his average crit damage would be somewhere around 34, on a class that has d10's for hit points, that type of hit would most likely just knock them unconscious or they would have a few hit points left.

With the modified version the average crit damage is somewhere around 52 which is straight up kill zone, even for d10's with decent CON.

Now they ran into the modified Scythe Tree and I wasn't going to be mean enough to have all four attacks hit the same target (unless there wasn't anyone else in range). This usually equated to two attacks each on two targets. I killed another character this combat with two crits, one each round, back to back rounds. Given that there are four attacks a round from this tree it is obviously more probable to get crits. The rogue in the party acted like a little ***** when it was evident to him that this tree had a very high AC (24, 22 when it had the opportunity to cleave). The rogue didn't land a single blow the entire fight.

Should I just roll with the idea that crits are crits and players generally die from them? And ignore the rogue for not rolling over a 14 on a monster with 24 or 22 AC?

KWWB, if you take it easy on the pcs you're cheating them. They should feel those crits, so when they win those 'boss' fights it should be memorable and at lower levels crits should drop some of them.


This is an outstanding thread which has made my transition to a 6 party game quite easy. Many tankards of frothy dwarven ale to be drank to the authors honor.

Sovereign Court

Many thanks Baldwin, always nice to hear :)


Thank you for this conversion. I've only really ran the tomb encounter as is and it was pretty terrifying for the PCs to encounter an AC 29 creature and the attendant non-pushover skeletal warrior sidekicks.


My group officially went to 6 players last night (without any animal companions thankfully) so I'm really looking forward to using this. When we ran book one I used the 6 player conversion but we only had 5 players plus two wolves and an intelligent giant centipede.


Was looking at this today and I'm a little confused by Hargulka's stat block.

BAB +8
Str +8
Weap Foc +1
Magic Weapon +2
Size -1

Looks like his attack bonus with his morningstar should be +18? And this would drop to +15 if he uses PA to boost his weapon dmg by +6 and his claw/bite dmg by +3.

In that same attack routing=e, his claw attack would be made as a secondary since he's using a manufactured weapon. But he has multiattack so those are only at -2 vs normal -5.

BAB +8
Str +8
Size -1
Secondary -2

Seems the claw bonus should only be 13, not the listed +15? Same bonus would also apply for the Bite.

Am I missing something?


My 5 players are over recommended level and have companions and now cohorts are coming into play so I will definitely start using this excellent resource! I did not realise that quest XP should have been split until reading this.

One small fix - Kundal should have 40 ft speed in hybrid form and 60 only in animal form. It's wrong in the AP too, error was carried.

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