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Due to people graduating and moving away and the like, my RotRL campaign has fizzled out, much to my regret. I am now thinking of starting up a homebrew campaign based on ancient Greece, using Pathfinder rules. I am still in the very early idea stage and thought I would ask for some input. Here are a few ideas I have had so far:
Races- Pretty much all nonstandard except human. Thinking of making a minotaur race, a harpy race, a centaur race, a satyr race, maybe some sort of sirine race, all much less powerful than the current bestiary version, more in line with the standard races.
Classes- Probably allow everything, but will have to seriously re-flavor a few such as paladin, monk, or druid. Oracle and witch ought to work very well.
Magic- I think I would like to emphasize the classical elements: earth, fire, air, water, and aether.
Monsters- I want it to be a fairly short campaign, but I want to include as many iconic Greek monsters as I can: medusa, cyclops, hydra, titan, even catoblepas.
Equipment- Only appropriate weapons, very limited armor. Maybe use the class defense rules from good old Unearthed Arcana so the fighter can pretend he is in 300 and run around in a cape, boots, and a loincloth and not immediately die. :P
I am looking for ideas and advice for making this a unique, interesting playing experience. What do you all think?
Edit: Oops, wrong forum. Sorry, it is late. Hopefully a kindly moderator can move it to the homebrew forum for me. Thank you in advance!
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If you can still get them, Green Ronins Trojan War and Testament Sourcebooks might be a great source of inspiration.
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The search function on Paizo is pretty good. There was thread about this a few weeks ago with a whole heap of ideas.
All you really need though is Sean K Reynold's The New Argonauts.
As well as being free, The New Argnauts is also awesome.
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The search function on Paizo is pretty good. There was thread about this a few weeks ago with a whole heap of ideas.
All you really need though is Sean K Reynold's The New Argonauts.
As well as being free, The New Argnauts is also awesome.
Agreed, though, somehow I completely forgot about that one :(
Equipment- Only appropriate weapons, very limited armor. Maybe use the class defense rules from good old Unearthed Arcana so the fighter can pretend he is in 300 and run around in a cape, boots, and a loincloth and not immediately die. :P
Just to point out the Spartans (hoplites from other city states) wore Iron Breastplates and grieves or if they were poor a lamellar armour called a linothorax they were only depicted naked in art because it was a particular style that emphasised the heroic nature of the natural form.
Please get the osprey books on the Persian and Peloponnesian wars. Paizo has Greek Hoplite 480-323BC
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The classic monsters of Greek mythology were all over the place spread between vast distances. The minotaur was at Knossos on Crete, centaurs lived around the mountain of Pelion on the mainland, medusa and her two sisters (who were known collectives as the gorgones) lived around Libya or on an island off the coast of western Africa depending on who was writing, and so on. So generally you wouldn't go out into the country and run into supernatural trouble- you were either somewhere wild and remote or you went there on purpose seeking counsel/aid/whatever.
I'm an American living in Greece and I swear going to these ancient ruins always fires up the gamer in me. Check out these images of Knossos to see why.
Also- how about the Temple of Olympian Zeus in Athens to put a sense of awe into visitors. It's a shame there are only a few columns left now. A roman general decided to deconstruct it and take it home as spoils of war. Some of it ended up sinking into the sea with the ships transporting it. If you scroll down on that same page you'll see a reconstruction of the interior of the Parthenon and the statue of Athena that would have been there in the early years.
There are a series of graphic novels coming out right now called the Olympians which tell the stories of the gods- one per book. Zeus and Athena are out for sure now. The story isn't anything particularly new, but you might enjoy the art, which is quite good, for inspiration. Also- they are set in Rome rather than Greece, but Steven Saylor has written an excellent series of historical fiction novels taking place around the peak of Rome's empire. They are mystery novels with a guy known as Gordianus the Finder as the main character. He's basically a private detective in the ancient times. They are excellent for getting a good image about the world in those times though. Also they are good reads regardless of whether you are building game in that setting or not.
Good luck putting together your game.
Maybe make a "demigod" race that is kind of like aasimar, but with 12 varieties, 1 for each of the Olympians. Maybe even a tiefling-like "titanspawn" race for the titans, etc.
I'm thinking of using the shifters for inspiration, with a Heroic Surge ability akin to shifting, that allows them to use an extraordinary or supernatural ability a limited number of rounds per day, say 4 + Con bonus, plus 2 per level after 1st, like a barbarian's rage. Or 3 + Cha ability bonus per day, like the various spellcaster abilities. I can see a scion of Zeus throwing thunderbolts 3 + Cha times per day for 1d6 + 1/2 HD, scion of Aphrodite using Charm Person, etc. etc.
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Great idea. Turning to the classic greek myths might provide familiar, yet challenging and exciting adventures. Take the 12 labors of Hercules:
1.Slay the Nemean lion.
2.Slay the 9-headed Lernaean Hydra.
3.Capture the Golden Hind of Artemis.
4.Capture the Erymanthian Boar.
5.Clean the Augean stables in a single day.
6.Slay the Stymphalian Birds.
7.Capture the Cretan Bull.
8.Steal the Mares of Diomedes.
9.Obtain the Girdle of the Amazon Queen.
10.Obtain the Cattle of the Monster Geryon.
11.Steal the Apples of the Hesperides.
12.Capture and bring back Cerberus.
A good blend of combat and non-combat challenges here. I would reorder the tasks, however, so that taking on a 9-headed hydra was not something a party of 1-2 level characters would need to undertake.
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Maybe make a "demigod" race that is kind of like aasimar, but with 12 varieties, 1 for each of the Olympians. Maybe even a tiefling-like "titanspawn" race for the titans, etc.
I'm thinking of using the shifters for inspiration, with a Heroic Surge ability akin to shifting, that allows them to use an extraordinary or supernatural ability a limited number of rounds per day, say 4 + Con bonus, plus 2 per level after 1st, like a barbarian's rage. Or 3 + Cha ability bonus per day, like the various spellcaster abilities. I can see a scion of Zeus throwing thunderbolts 3 + Cha times per day for 1d6 + 1/2 HD, scion of Aphrodite using Charm Person, etc. etc.
If you want somebody else to do the work for you - super genius have the godling and the mystic godling, which are similar.
My most inspiring bit of Greece is the oracle at Delphi. Combine the ruins with the context (those views) and... blows me away.
Due to people graduating and moving away and the like, my RotRL campaign has fizzled out, much to my regret. I am now thinking of starting up a homebrew campaign based on ancient Greece, using Pathfinder rules.
I statted out a few magic items and monsters from Greek/Roman myth in my Gazae et Monstri PDF. Send me an email at mark @ spesmagna dot com, and I'll get you a free copy.
:)
Mark L. Chance | Spes Magna Games
I played an Ancient Greece paladin in a plane-hopping campaign.
1. Do NOT go into the sewers wearing sandals. Boots are your friends.
2. Do NOT get paralyzed in the sewers, with your mouth open, in a very tippable position, after peeving off the half-ogre barbarian-monk built for speed.
3. DO get an adamantium (god-forged star-metal) shortsword.
I think there are all kinds of great Greek-myth items that would be great quest items. Hercules' cape (the skin of the Nemean lion) made him invulnerable. Dedalus and Icarus made wings that let them fly. Perseus had the helm of invisibility from Hades to beat Medusa. While PCs can't run around with the helmet of Hades, they certainly could acquire a Hades Helm, a weaker variant of the helm belonging to the god of the underworld that granted invisibility akin to the ring.
Additionally, worshipping the gods, who were very active in the lives of mortal heroes, could yield tangible benefits via feats. For example, worshippers of Artemis get +1 to hit with bows. Ares worshippers get +1 with swords. Aphrodite worshippers add 1 to the DC of charm spells. Hades worshiipers get to speak with the dead at will or get to add one to the DC on necromancy spells.
How about restyling the paladin class into the hero class? They generally fit the same bill, only their code and style differ all that much. They are examples and paragons of their kind. And I did like the part in the ancient greece setting for 2nd edition AD&D where heroes all had a tragic fate that they would eventually have to face.
Druids were different, but not all that much, but monks seem a bit far-fetched. Oh, and perhaps sorcerers could stand in for the more civilized wizards?
As for monks, perhaps they could be re-flavored to come from Persia or India, ala something that Alexander the Great might have encountered.
I strongly recommend taking a look at Super Genius Guide to the godling and The mystic Godling
As for monks, perhaps they could be re-flavored to come from Persia or India, ala something that Alexander the Great might have encountered.
The Greeks had 3 forms of Martial Arts Boxing, Wrestling, and Pankration (all power) it was also know as Pammachion (total combat) that combined Boxing and Westling it was UFC 2500 years before the Gracie brothers thought of it.
To be a good Pankratist you had to be a good boxer for a wrestler and a good wrestler for a boxer. Pankration was a mix of wrestling and boxing it had choke holds, joint locks, and take downs.
It is the first recorded martial art that wasnt boxing or westling by a good 500 years.
In myth Theseus used Pankration to take down the Minotaur.
So it is viable to have Monks as Olympic games Athletes who spent their time training their minds and bodies at the Gymnasia for perfection.
The Greeks had 3 forms of Martial Arts Boxing, Wrestling, and Pankration (all power) it was also know as Pammachion (total combat) that combined Boxing and Westling it was UFC 2500 years before the Gracie brothers thought of it.
BTW pankration and the other events at the classical Olympic games are all described in The New Argonauts (linked above).
The Greeks had 3 forms of Martial Arts Boxing, Wrestling, and Pankration (all power) it was also know as Pammachion (total combat) that combined Boxing and Westling it was UFC 2500 years before the Gracie brothers thought of it.BTW pankration and the other events at the classical Olympic games are all described in The New Argonauts (linked above).
The New Argonauts is an excellent book... I dont suppose that Paizo would let you do a Bronze/iron age Golarion book? Great interview on the Chronicles podcast, very interesting.
Paizo would let me do pretty much any book I want off the clock. :)
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Been really busy with classes and rehearsals, but wanted to chime in and say thanks to everyone who has given me ideas/advice. I am reading the New Argonaughts supplement and loving it, though I think I am going to make this campaign a bit more fantasy, with non-human races, a bit more magic, etc. If I ever have the free time to write down the ideas I am coming up with I will post them here. For now, here is a bit I was thinking in terms of races:
Humans, as PFRPG
Minotaurs +2 str, +2 con, -2 int; medium size but with a Powerful Build ability like the 3.5 goliath race.
Centaurs +2 dex, +2 con, -2 cha
Harpies +2 dex, +2 int, -2 con
Satyrs +2 con, +2 cha, -2 wis
Sirines/Tritons +2 wis, +2 cha, -2 dex
Of course I will try to work out racial abilities approximating the power of the core races, and then I was thinking I would add some god-spawned scion powers similar to the Midnight setting's Heroic Paths to make up for the fact that magic items will be extremely rare...
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As for monks, perhaps they could be re-flavored to come from Persia or India, ala something that Alexander the Great might have encountered.The Greeks had 3 forms of Martial Arts Boxing, Wrestling, and Pankration (all power) it was also know as Pammachion (total combat) that combined Boxing and Westling it was UFC 2500 years before the Gracie brothers thought of it.
To be a good Pankratist you had to be a good boxer for a wrestler and a good wrestler for a boxer. Pankration was a mix of wrestling and boxing it had choke holds, joint locks, and take downs.
It is the first recorded martial art that wasnt boxing or westling by a good 500 years.
In myth Theseus used Pankration to take down the Minotaur.
So it is viable to have Monks as Olympic games Athletes who spent their time training their minds and bodies at the Gymnasia for perfection.
The one thing that I would do for Monks is to come up with a new Archetype for the Pankrationist. Because there is much of the standard Monk that I believe would be inappropriate for that type of character.
I was once going to start a quasi-Greek campaign and was having trouble thinking of how to get the PC party, which would probably consist of a diverse variety of characters, together.
I decided the best way might be to have the PCs in town for the olympics games, where they come to the attention of a wealthy noble who gives them their first adventure.
It's just a thought, but starting a campaign with a sports competition could be good.
Just a quick drive by idea here for an adventure (or storyarc). Depending upon how D&Desque your "Greek" world is, there might be a good source for a drow/Lolth equivalent.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arachne
From a Roman source, of course. But what if Arachne (curse years ago with the form of a spider for her hubris) were to return, somehow with the power to back up her former hubris? And a group of new spider worshipper followers? Dunno if there would be any Greco-Roman equivalent to mites (as in the Pathfinder Bestiary), but those little guys are pretty freaky when controlling scads of vermin.
The one thing that I would do for Monks is to come up with a new Archetype for the Pankrationist. Because there is much of the standard Monk that I believe would be inappropriate for that type of character.All you have to is have a fighting school that taught Pythagorean, Socratic, Epicurean, Platonic, thought along with the Pankration - which is what happened anyway.
A good Pankratist could kick, punch, lock, throw and pin and hold a symposium to discuss mind and body.. There were no rules but it was taught as a fighting style.
I cant see much mechanical difference between the Asian Martial arts and the Mysticism surrounding it and the older Hellenic martial art and the Philosophical schools that were an inherent part of the of the training and education of all Hellenic athletes.
How are you planning to do the SPARTANS! ? (Every since 300 I can only write SPARTANS! in caps with a exclamation point)
There was a lively debate about this on another thread.
They were one of the rare cases where the reality came close to matching the legend (at least at their height of power.
A bunch of PC's at Thermopolaye might change it from the dramatic sacrifice 0f 300 to the dramatic victory of 7 fifteenth level characters ;)
For demi-gods, I would try something simple, that would make it more pathfinder-ish, but still work--give them a Cleric domain, and at each even level they can use the spell of the domain as a spell-like (or maybe supernatural?) ability once a day. But control it, mostly sticking to Strength and Charisma based abiilities, although a Circe like character might have ones with some more magical abilities.
How are you planning to do the SPARTANS! ? (Every since 300 I can only write SPARTANS! in caps with a exclamation point)
I would make all Spartans (That is Spartan citizens - not the Perioeci or the Helots) Base/Core Classes primarily the fighter class to represent the training - all others unless the NPC is exceptional would be the NPC class. The Spartans were not supermen they just had superior training.
The Spartans are over rated, brave, disciplined and well trained yes... to a point. They were unable to sustain heavy losses or it would mean the destruction of their state.
They primarily did most of there fighting through their allies. Sending a staff of "officers" to command the forces raised under their alliance.
The Spartans had a major weakness the Helots - the people who inhabited the Lakonia and Messinia before the Doric peoples who would later call themselves Spartans invaded.
The Spartans took both city states destroyed Messinia enslaved its population and settled in Lakonia, and instead of integrating the population they set up an apartheid state and had to totally militarise their society to prevent revolt.
The revolts were so bad at one stage they had to ask the Athenians for help.
They were defeated several times:
Demosthenes the Athenian forced them to Surrender at Pylos, (Of the 440 Spartans involved, 292 survived to surrender; of these, 120 were men of the elite Spartiate class).
Iphicrates another Athenian using peltasts (light troops) in 392 BC-390 BC almost annihilated a battalion of about 600 Spartan hoplites.
Epaminondas the Theban destroyed Spartan power by defeating their army killing almost half of their elite Spartiates and then freeing the Helots and re-establishing the city state of Messinia cutting the vital resources required by the Spartans for their militaristic society to exist.