Sorcerer Counterspeller help with spell selection + bloodline


Advice


I've always loved the idea of counterspelling and the feat improved counterspell seemed to me to make it possible to be an effective one. The problem I ran into was that I would sometimes nerf myself by taking too many spells from different schools and not just taking the good spells. Luckily the APG gave me an alternate favored class bonus from human giving me one extra spell known each level.
My issue now is picking a bloodline, and making sure I have the best spells from each school, and avoid school spells if there is nothing worth countering in the spell level one below it. So far i'm digging the abberant (for the reach on ranged touch) fey(for the compulsion bonus so I can mess with fighters and mages) or arcane(though this is kind of iffy). any suggestions would be awesome . Also don't be afraid to tell me counterspelling is worthless. I haven't played D&D much (just thought of a bunch of characters) so I don't know how effective it will be. I figure worst case scenario I've got a versatile sorcerer who can just cast his vast array of spells instead of using them to counter.

PS: can you counter spell-like abilities?


Unfortunately, the best way to counter a spell is to ready a magic missle or fireball and make em fail thier concentration check.


For a sorcerer? Dispel Magic and Greater Dispel Magic. The problem with counter spelling is that it's so rare you'll be able to do so. You might pick the best spells in the book but if your GM makes a caster or group of casters that fit a theme they may not be using the best spells in the game. There's just too many good spells out there to make it worthwhile. Even when you add Improved Counterspell to your feat and make it more available- you're still dropping a spell of +1 level to drop the casters spell- How many times can you figure that being a good trade? 4th level for 3rd level isn't bad to counter Haste/L.Bolt/Fireball- The rest of the time it's probably better and more efficient to just cast a good spell that's a level higher than whats being thrown at you. Then you run into the trouble with BBEG's and they are typically 2-4 levels higher than you and going to be casting higher level spells than what you can counter anyway.


sir_shajir wrote:
Unfortunately, the best way to counter a spell is to ready a magic missile or fireball and make em fail their concentration check.

This too.

Shadow Lodge

sir_shajir wrote:
Unfortunately, the best way to counter a spell is to ready a magic missle or fireball and make em fail thier concentration check.

Unfortunately +1


sir_shajir wrote:
Unfortunately, the best way to counter a spell is to ready a magic missle or fireball and make em fail thier concentration check.

This being said you would probably want to use Arcane Bloodline so you can use school apropiate heigthen spells in the readied action, wich is limited to a standar action, so you can have a more versatile use Improved Counter spells. And you can dump the ¨useless off schools spells¨ to first and second level, human favored class bonus will help even more.

Counterspelling is not bad once you managed to use it as cost effective n the action economy. For example, there was a spell in 3.5 that aloud you to use counterspells as an immedite action. The counter spelling feat isn't enough by itself, because you have no way knowing if the spellcaster is going to use a spell that is elegible, or useful, to be bounced back and you are still screwed with swift actions and multiple spellcasters.

Humbly,
Yawar


Shizzle69 wrote:


PS: can you counter spell-like abilities?
Pg. 221, Core Rulebook wrote:

Spell-like abilities are subject to spell resistance and

dispel magic. They do not function in areas where magic is
suppressed or negated. Spell-like abilities cannot be used
to counterspell, nor can they be counterspelled.

Sadly, no.

And counterspelling normally is just annoying at low levels at the high frequency of your ability to fail it in comparison to just using damaging spells with readied actions wisely.

To dispel, it frequently proves annoying because the entire burden of proof is on you-- you must get this, have the right spell, and then get this. For instance, counterspelling starts with identifying. A level 5 wizard with an 18 Int is casting fireball on you. Him casting fireball is a DC18 spellcraft check. You're 4th level so you have a +8 thanks to a 1 int mod... so 10 or above. 50% chance. So now you're like, oh, darn, I don't have fireball as a learned spell. Hm, okay. Dispel magic. Gotta get a DC16 on a caster level check, so, 8 or above. Anything lower than an 8? And then he fireballs you. And you've also wasted a spell.

On the flip side, damaging spells coupled with readied actions make enemy spellcasters completely neutered half of the time, as long as you can reliably do more damage than 10 plus your level on an attack. Stacking up damage over time effects on them as well makes them make more and more checks-- more and more chances for them to fail, instead of you needing to succeed. Acid arrow is a good spell for "counterspelling," for instance, thanks to its long timer and its pitiful damage-- since it does low damage, spellcasters won't avoid it, but everyone has a 1 on their die if they end up succumbing to it. Acid arrow as an opener is good, and in subsequent rounds, pure damaging effects as readied actions in response to casting, such scorching ray or magic missile are pretty keen.

So, let's say you acid arrow them. Their first round, they make a 10 + spell level + 1/2 of 2d4. Easy to make but annoying. Like, 2d4 ⇒ (3, 1) = 4 and a fifth level wizard with 18 int casting fireball would need to make a DC 15 check, which he has a +9 on 1d20 + 9 ⇒ (12) + 9 = 21, and then he casts a spell and you scorching ray him for 4d6 ⇒ (5, 6, 4, 3) = 18 and he has to make a DC 33 caster level check, which he cannot make ... 1d20 + 9 ⇒ (13) + 9 = 22 and he fails. Now not only have you rocked him for 18 damage, but he lost the spell on his own volition because he had to succeed at an impossible check. If you can force your enemy to have a 30% chance of failure and then a 100% chance of failure, that is much better odds for you than giving yourself a 50% chance of failure and a 40% chance of failure.

Even at higher levels, where counterspelling may shine, enemies might just start wearing the incredibly cheap ring of counterspells and putting dispel magic in it. Now when you try to counter, you jump through all of the hoops, waste a spell, and then they fireball you anyways. Or something worse, but, you get the point.

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