Help: Withdraw vs. AoO (Natural Reach)


Rules Questions


Wending ones way out of combat is easy against a 5' reach opponent using the full-round withdraw action...

"Withdraw
When you withdraw, you can move up to double your speed. The square you start out in is not considered threatened by any opponent you can see, and therefore visible enemies do not get attacks of opportunity against you when you move from that square."

A little later, in the withdraw write-up, it mentions something that causes a bit of consternation for me, and I am hoping that someone can set me straight...

If, during the process of withdrawing, you move out of a threatened square (other than the one you started in), enemies get attacks of opportunity as normal.

If a character is trying to withdraw from melee combat (let's assume they were close enough to be able to engage the creature with their stumpy arms as well) with a creature that has a much larger natural reach then them, would they need to use multiple withdraw actions to get away?


That's correct. In order to avoid AoO using the withdraw action, you need to be able to move out of your opponents' reach with your very first square of movement -- that is, you need to start the turn at the edge of their reach. The withdraw only eliminates the threat in the first square.
Consider using Acrobatics instead.


Check errata on tumble (can't link atm, am on my phone at work), while my group couldn't find anything about getting stopped by a failed acrobatics check to tumble in the book errata on d20pfsrd.com has a blurb from a dev saying failed checks end your move in the square you failed the check in. if it's not a legal square (occupied) you fall prome in that square. If you have another move action you can try again, but it makes just taking the AoO better sometimes instead of possibly taking a full attack later because of a botched roll.

Sorry for any spelling errors.


You can't perform two Withdraw actions (at least in one round), because it's already a full round action that lets you move up to double your movement.
You might be thinking of a 5' step (no AoO) followed by a Withdraw... assuming the creature doesn't 5' step to keep up.

Honestly... you are probably stuck eating the AoO and hoping the thing doesn't trip you, preventing you from getting away.
Large creatures and reach really are scary for a reason.


Kaisoku wrote:
You might be thinking of a 5' step (no AoO) followed by a Withdraw... assuming the creature doesn't 5' step to keep up.

You can't make a 5' step on the same round you withdraw. A 5' step has to be the only actual movement in the round it's used.


AvalonXQ wrote:
Kaisoku wrote:
You might be thinking of a 5' step (no AoO) followed by a Withdraw... assuming the creature doesn't 5' step to keep up.
You can't make a 5' step on the same round you withdraw. A 5' step has to be the only actual movement in the round it's used.

Agreed. I think Kaisoku meant a 5' step one round, then withdraw the next (hence the "5' step to keep up" comment).

If the monster can't follow (another ally right next to it for instance), you can 5' after attacking one round, and withdraw the next (if only 10' reach).


Majuba wrote:
you can 5' after attacking one round, and withdraw the next (if only 10' reach).

Yep, this is what you need to do ... keep using 5' steps to retreat tactically while fighting, then Withdraw from the final threatened square. If you're in the condition where you need to Withdraw to save yourself from demise, then you need to go Full Defense while taking those 5' steps.

Meanwhile, as others have mentioned, keep hoping the opponent doesn't advance on you to keep you within easy Reach. Best option is a comrade who flanks it so it tries to deal with both of you (hopefully it's not smart enough to focus on one) and you can both "stretch" its threatened area (while continuing to attack) and then Withdraw simultaneously.

FWIW,

Rez


Yep, that's what I was thinking when I typed it (hence the 5' step to follow you comment). I wasn't thinking from the perspective of using 5' step and withdraw in the same round (ironically?) because I knew it couldn't be. Heh.


Stubs McKenzie wrote:

Check errata on tumble (can't link atm, am on my phone at work), while my group couldn't find anything about getting stopped by a failed acrobatics check to tumble in the book errata on d20pfsrd.com has a blurb from a dev saying failed checks end your move in the square you failed the check in. if it's not a legal square (occupied) you fall prome in that square. If you have another move action you can try again, but it makes just taking the AoO better sometimes instead of possibly taking a full attack later because of a botched roll.

Sorry for any spelling errors.

I think you're a little confused on this point.

If you use acrobatics to move through a threatened square without provoking AoOs, but you fail the roll, you still move as planned but your movment provokes.

If you use acrobatics to move through an occupied square without provoking AoOs, but you fail the roll, you movement stops in the last empty space before the occupied square. It might not even provoke if by stopping in that empty space you have not yet left any threatened squares (although I rule it the other way, that you did leave the square but your movement was blocked, hence leaving the square provokes) - that's a bit of a gray area.


You are correct sir.


DM_Blake wrote:
(although I rule it the other way, that you did leave the square but your movement was blocked, hence leaving the square provokes) - that's a bit of a gray area.

I find this a valid ruling ... basically that you "left the square" and provoked, but then were forced back into the previous square.

There certainly is precedent for this sort of call in the rules.

R.

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