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I put things in quotes because, invariably, I know that someone somewhere is going to ask the question of "What is Evil?" and I'd just as soon nip that in the bud right off the bat. For purposes of the discussion, I am using Evil as defined within the Alignment system.
Create Treasure Map, a spell found within the APG, requires that the caster carve a piece off of a dead opponent, which is then used as the primary material component and display surface for a map to what the creature considered treasure - be it a source of suitable mates, food, monetary wealth, etc.
The question then becomes - is it an Evil Act to actively carve up a dead foe to create a magical guidebook that has as its sole purpose the looting of the deceased foe's trove of goodies?
I would argue that while it may not be inherently Evil with a Capital E, it is certainly Amoral with a Capital A. The character is cutting a portion of flesh - skin, shell, carapace, what-have-you, off of their dead foe, muttering a few words and sprinkling it with magical pigments - and poof! Treasure map. The sole purpose of this spell is to find the loot and it uses Dead-Mans-Skin to do it. This is not the realm of "Good," here. I could certainly see a Neutral or Evil character using this spell as a method for personal gain, but without damned good reasoning, I would have a hard time with any Good aligned PC (or NPC) allowing the spell to be used in their presence (or use it themselves).
Thoughts?
If this question and/or a similar thread has already been created, well, I apologize. Someone with appropriate power is free to destroy the thread as they see fit. :D
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Since Evil entails 'hurting, oppressing, and killing others', and you are not hurting someone when you carve up a corpse (otherwise your evening meal would make you Evil), I say no. Casting the spell is not Evil. What you go do with the information may be, like hunting down and murdering all his loved ones, but not the spell itself.
But I agree it is not a Good act.
Corpse Desecration is a cultural belief. Some cultures believe in honoring the bodies of the dead, others feel that the body is an empty shell. As such, the use of a dead body has no bearing on the good or evil of the act.
The good or evil of the act all depends on how the opponent ended up dead IMO.
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To directly answer your question; No, using Create Treasure Map is not evil because it does not have the evil descriptor.
However it might be seen as distasteful, inhumane, or otherwise taboo by certain (If not most of Golarions) cultures. It is not quite to the level of mutilation of a corpse but it would certainly be considered for defiling it. That being said, unless you are enforcing some pretty heavy RP, and the PC's are spreading their exploits about in public then I can't really see this affecting anything. Other cultures however might just see it as something to be blown off or normal, this could be considered a form of cannibalism so some extent.
This won't do anything like make a Paladin fall or a cleric suddenly shift 1 alignment too far away from his domain to lose his powers.
It is disrespectful, but outside of cultures that consider the consider the remains of an individual inviolate I dont think this is evil. Its not good either mind you I think it is a neutral act. I wouldnt consider this something a good character couldnt do anymore then i would looting the body itself. Finding a means to treasure is a part of the basis of this game, so really all you are doing is getting that treasure in a way that upsets certain culture's ideas of how to treat the dead, but not necessarily the characters ideas of how the dead should be treated.
In a fantasy RPG the moral value of an act is determined by the very real and imminent gods who effect daily life. If a spell doesn't have the [Evil] descriptor it has not been declared evil by the gods and therefore is not evil, although one might postulate that if the corpse in question is a good outsider or similar emissary of the gods the morality may not be an issue.
The question then becomes - is it an Evil Act to actively carve up a dead foe to create a magical guidebook that has as its sole purpose the looting of the deceased foe's trove of goodies?
I don't think cutting off a creature's arm after it's dead is any more evil than cutting off a creature's arm while it's still alive. Probably even less so.
It's certainly less evil than casting Animate Dead on a corpse, which somehow mucks around with the creature's soul to the extent that it can't be raised from the dead.
I could certainly see a Neutral or Evil character using this spell as a method for personal gain, but without damned good reasoning, I would have a hard time with any Good aligned PC (or NPC) allowing the spell to be used in their presence (or use it themselves).
I can think of dozens of ways this spell could be used for good:
-locate and free slaves (valuable commodities)
-find antidote (...to the poison that the dead enemy spiked the town's water supply with)
-retrieve serial killer's trophies (and give peace to restless spirits)
-track down and destroy mini-Cthulhu-spawning artifact
-and so on...
Since Evil entails 'hurting, oppressing, and killing others', and you are not hurting someone when you carve up a corpse (otherwise your evening meal would make you Evil), I say no. Casting the spell is not Evil. What you go do with the information may be, like hunting down and murdering all his loved ones, but not the spell itself.
But I agree it is not a Good act.
This is part of my point - the act of killing your foe is part of your survival. You're on an adventure and you're attempting to get through the Lair of the Beast of Traag and the Beast turns out to be an enormous Dire Lagomorph, and the thing doesn't go down without a fight. Your rations have all been fouled by the swamp and you have to carve up the beast that once sought to bring death upon you with great, sharp, nasty, pointy, teeth and eat it.
That's not evil. That's survival.
However, when later you come upon the henchmen of the Evil Wizard who stole The Princess, and upon defeating these henchmen, you then carve one up and grill its spirit for information on loot, that's not survival. That's greed, pure and simple.
Let's assume you have a Cleric of a Good God, or a Paladin of same, in the party - are they going to stand by and let that happen? Even though the spell Descriptor calls it a "Divination" spell, what is really going on here is that the caster is walking up to a dead body, using it as a component, and then actively interrogating the spirit for information. This is textbook Necromancy, here. Technicalities of the game system aside - which I will maintain that the PC's should never, ever, use (because while a certain amount of Metagaming is unavoidable, it should never be encouraged) - this is not something that I could easily see anyone who is out Championing Good in the Name of Righteousness should readily accept.
It is not quite to the level of mutilation of a corpse but it would certainly be considered for defiling it. That being said, unless you are enforcing some pretty heavy RP, and the PC's are spreading their exploits about in public then I can't really see this affecting anything.
I disagree - it is absolutely desecration of the corpse. Perhaps not in the overblown theatrical mannerisms we're used to seeing in movies, but the spell requires a significantly, sufficiently, large piece of the creatures hide. This is, if not equivalent to, certainly parallel to, finding a spellbook made out of Elf Skin in the lair of the Evil Wizard. We're not talking about slaughtering a cow and then using its meat for food, its bones for tools, its skin for armor. This is going up to Joe The Goblin and saying "Hey, Joe, gimme some skin!" in a completely un-ironic, non-familiar-greeting kind of way.
And as far as "heavy RP" - well, I wouldn't consider it "Heavy" to have someone playing a Good Cleric, Paladin, Ranger, or any other Good to question this act.
Going back to my original statement - I'm not sure it's EVIL. But it's certainly not very ETHICAL, nor is it GOOD.
In a fantasy RPG the moral value of an act is determined by the very real and imminent gods who effect daily life. If a spell doesn't have the [Evil] descriptor it has not been declared evil by the gods and therefore is not evil, although one might postulate that if the corpse in question is a good outsider or similar emissary of the gods the morality may not be an issue.
A good point, and one I try to make to my players frequently - we're dealing with game worlds in which the existence of the Gods is not a philosophical one - it's a matter of fact. Bob The Blessed doesn't get his power from his thoughts that there MIGHT be a God of Wonders, he gets them from the fact that there IS a God of Wonders.
I could certainly see a Neutral or Evil character using this spell as a method for personal gain, but without damned good reasoning, I would have a hard time with any Good aligned PC (or NPC) allowing the spell to be used in their presence (or use it themselves).I can think of dozens of ways this spell could be used for good:
-locate and free slaves (valuable commodities)
-find antidote (...to the poison that the dead enemy spiked the town's water supply with)
-retrieve serial killer's trophies (and give peace to restless spirits)
-track down and destroy mini-Cthulhu-spawning artifact
-and so on...
Except that by the definition of the spell, you don't get those specifics.
It'd be a very hit-and-miss way of finding the goal of your quest, really.
By the description of the spell, you get what the corpse considers "treasure" - not what you are specifically looking for.
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By the description of the spell, you get what the corpse considers "treasure" - not what you are specifically looking for.
For not wanting to argue the subjectiveness of Evil, you are certainly arguing the subjectiveness of treasure pretty hard.
In response to your first reply, you asked if it was Evil according to the rules. I quoted the rules definition of Evil, which the spell does not match. The feelings of the party Paladin/Cleric are irrelevant to it being an Evil act. Depending on their religion, they may or may not be okay with it.
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Except that by the definition of the spell, you don't get those specifics.
It'd be a very hit-and-miss way of finding the goal of your quest, really.
By the description of the spell, you get what the corpse considers "treasure" - not what you are specifically looking for.
But I fail to see why that is an evil act. Killing a dragon away from its hoard is the first idea that comes to mind with this spell. Sure it isn't very NICE, but it is no more evil than killing the beast and carving his body up for armor that the druid can wear and reagents to sell in town.
Except that by the definition of the spell, you don't get those specifics.
It'd be a very hit-and-miss way of finding the goal of your quest, really.
By the description of the spell, you get what the corpse considers "treasure" - not what you are specifically looking for.
The corpse wouldn't consider slaves treasure? I'm not saying that the spell should reveal a shortcut to the end of the campaign; I'm saying that it could be a good way to introduce side quests into a game. Give the players an answer to a question they haven't even thought to ask yet.
Kill an assassin? Grab some of his skin and see if you can find his stash (and hopefully find a connection as to who hired him).
For not wanting to argue the subjectiveness of Evil, you are certainly arguing the subjectiveness of treasure pretty hard.
By the description of the spell, you get what the corpse considers "treasure" - not what you are specifically looking for.
Nah, I'm actually just trying to keep up with things while actively working at my desk. It results in me being unclear and short-sentenced sometimes. I really should know that every time I get a lull here at work and post a thread or a reply, something will break and I'll end up flailing about for several hours following... /sigh
Actually, Carbon - the Dragon/Horde dynamic is an argument I'm now going to present to my players (where this conversation got started), and use as a use of the spell that I'd accept as perfectly A-OK for the Paladin to get behind.
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Nah, I'm actually just trying to keep up with things while actively working at my desk. It results in me being unclear and short-sentenced sometimes. I really should know that every time I get a lull here at work and post a thread or a reply, something will break and I'll end up flailing about for several hours following... /sigh
Ah, I understand completely.
Any spell without the "evil" descriptor leaves it to the interpretation of the DM, and the motives of the caster, whether or not the spell is evil.
Is Fireball evil? No.
Is using Fireball to burn down an orphanage full of children evil?
of course.
Because of fireball?
No.
Because of what you Did with it.
in D&D the soul leaves the body and goes.. wherever. The body is just a body. Using this spell on the body is no more evil than /whatever it is you are going to do with it/.
So if you use it to carve a treasure map to the person's family so you can go butcher them mercilessly then you have done something evil.
Not because of the spell- but because of your motives.
Using it on a dragon to find his treasure isn't evil. Because finding his treasure isn't an evil act.
"finding treasure" isn't evil in D&D. Looting corpses isn't either. Its just part of the basic part of the game.
If you choose to put the [Evil] tag on the spell, thats fine.. just let the players know you are removing it from their list of available spells.
But don't handicap them by NOT putting the label on it, when You plan to punish them for using it because you think its "bad" or Icky or whatever.
The fact that the opponent /used/ to be intelligent doesn't make the spell any more evil than butchering a deer or goat for the evening meal.
-S
For not wanting to argue the subjectiveness of Evil, you are certainly arguing the subjectiveness of treasure pretty hard.
By the description of the spell, you get what the corpse considers "treasure" - not what you are specifically looking for.Nah, I'm actually just trying to keep up with things while actively working at my desk. It results in me being unclear and short-sentenced sometimes. I really should know that every time I get a lull here at work and post a thread or a reply, something will break and I'll end up flailing about for several hours following... /sigh
Actually, Carbon - the Dragon/Horde dynamic is an argument I'm now going to present to my players (where this conversation got started), and use as a use of the spell that I'd accept as perfectly A-OK for the Paladin to get behind.
For me, it really comes down to how the person ended up dead, and if there is another claimant to the treasure.
Some examples.
The players kill a dragon that is attacking a city. They use the spell to track down the unclaimed horde. Protecting the city good, tracking down the horde, neutral.
Killing a soldier on the field of battle, then using the spell to track down their treasure(Neutral). When the players get there, they take the treasure from the soldier's widow and kids(Evil).
Assassinating a nobleman(Evil), then using the spell to find and steal their hidden stash from their family(Evil).
In RL, I went fishing yesterday. I caught a lot of fish. The poor things were gasping themselves to death except for the one who came up with a mouthful of partially eaten crabs and was coughing them up. Then I had the deck hand gut the fish, fillet them, and throw the guts, head, skeleton and skin to the gulls.
This was in RL, so the captain of the boat was using a fish finder to locate the schools of fish. If this were fantasy, I could have taken either of the two big pieces of skins that came from my filleted fish and asked "Where can I find more of those yummy crabs?" or "Where do most of the fish hang out?" via Create Treasure Map.
I don't see this particular bit of divination as being any more inherently evil than killing a creature and eating its flesh (deep fried with beer batter and tartar sauce, in this case) and throwing its bones to scavengers. If hunting a creature and killing it for your dinner isn't evil (or paying someone else to do it while you watch), then divination with its skin or bones shouldn't be either unless you have some extra bit of theology going where all divination is evil.
Of course, there comes a question of whether it's evil if what you catch is a talking fish--which is not just in fairytales but in Pathfinder RAW because there's the Awaken spell and you know a druid somewhere is going to use it on a fish eventually. So the fisherman catches a fish and the situation goes like this:
FISH: (gasping) Let me go!
FISHERMAN: (surprised) A talking fish? Will you grant me three wishes?
FISH: Do I look like a wizard with piles of jewels? I'm just a talking fish! Please, let me go!
FISHERMAN: Tell me where the other fish swim then.
FISH: Never will I betray my my people! Never!
FISHERMAN: (brandishing gutting knife) Wanna bet?
Now redo the same scenario with a goblin and a halfling, or a dragon and a tasty humanoid nun, or a hag who's found a child wandering in the woods and would like her dinner to give her directions to the local orphanage where they're just giving these delicious treats away--it's like getting free take-out!
Now turn the tables and imagine the orphanage somewhere between Home Alone and Lord of the Flies, where the starving orphans (there's a famine, which is why one of them was braving the woods to find mushrooms or something) mug the hag, kill her, eat her, and then one of them with sorcerer levels takes a swatch of her green skin and gets it to draw a map to that gingerbread house she was talking about. Is that evil?
Ditto with the nuns and dragon, who didn't realize these were battle nuns, and after they kill the dragon that came to eat them, they get a map to its treasure hoard which they'll use to pay for repairs to their convent. And yes, they eat the dragon too. Awful lot of meat there.
Then cut back to the real world and look at cannibalism which is generally a cultural taboo if humans do it except for those cases where it's considered a holy sacrament in more than religion.
In other words, if I were running Ravenloft, I'd give it the Evil descriptor. In Pathfinder, I'd leave it off. For my own world I'm currently running? I'd give it the "shadow realm" descriptor as it deals with death and necromancy, but as I stress to my players, for my world, death is not inherently evil anymore than life is inherently good.
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Since respect for the dead is strongly encouraged in most cultures, and carving them up is typically a strong cultural taboo, I'd actually peg this as a Chaotic act.
But I could see the the argument for making an Evil act instead, as you are showing that you do not value life (and Good creatures value life very highly).
It's the sort of thing your CN/NE/CE necromancers would be very willing to do, without a second thought. Most other people would likely object on some grounds or another.
I would say this is NOT an evil spell.
Why, because if you kill a cow and eat it.... are you evil, no.
If you kill a kobolt in a fight who is trying to kill you .. are you evil, no. If you then loot his treasure, are you evil, no. If you then cut off a bit of his flesh (( which you already hacked away at already )), and cast a location spell to find his treasure, are you evil, no.
Are you evil for looting Dragon Scale off a dead dragon? Are you evil for looting the claws off a dead Griffon? Are you evil for looting the blood off a dead Gorgon? Are you evil for looting the armor off a dead fighter?
About 99% of the time, baring some exception circumstance, the answer is No.
Since respect for the dead is strongly encouraged in most cultures, and carving them up is typically a strong cultural taboo, I'd actually peg this as a Chaotic act.
But I could see the the argument for making an Evil act instead, as you are showing that you do not value life (and Good creatures value life very highly).
It's the sort of thing your CN/NE/CE necromancers would be very willing to do, without a second thought. Most other people would likely object on some grounds or another.
However, there's always a lot of theological casuistry going on. As mentioned before, if the CE red dragon attacks the LG nunnery, none of the nuns will be terribly troubled by a magic spell the wizard has that lets you make a dragonhide map to the dragon's treasure unless it's explained to them that this arcane spell works on hides other than dragon's as well and historically has been used for all sorts of grisly curios which LG are supposed to find icky unless they're holy relics.
I mean, a hand of glory is icky necromancy. The relic of a saint that happens to be hand is the highest holiness. To any outsider, this is just a human running around with a mummified human hand that does magic stuff.
I'm not sure I see lawful/chaotic entering into the issue at all.
I can see a lawful person being pragmatic enough to make use of a fallen creature just as I can a chaotic one.
Lawful isn't about following laws anymore than chaotic is about breaking them. its about having your *own* framework of ideals that you live up to, vs. just doing whatever you want at the moment.
And using a spell to peel the hide off a *slain* foe is only "not lawful" for that character if that character has some ideal against doing so in the first place.
Remember- there are plenty of Lawful evil outsiders that would have no qualms whatsoever about peeling the hide off of a paladin to use this spell to find their treasured loved ones to slay.
(if they could find a way to keep the paladin alive while they did it, so much the better..)
In this case its all about the cultural morality of the individual rather than a cosmololgical issue. Assuming you are using the base Pathfinder cosmology, the spell isn't evil because it lacks the Evil descriptor. Period.
If you have other gods in your universe, or choose to change how the gods in Golarion/Pathfinder view the spell then that's your choosing.
Icky, Nasty, disgusting: they do not equate to "law or chaos" or "good or evil". they equate to .. icky, nasty, disgusting..
-S
I'm not sure I see lawful/chaotic entering into the issue at all.
I can see a lawful person being pragmatic enough to make use of a fallen creature just as I can a chaotic one.
Lawful isn't about following laws anymore than chaotic is about breaking them. its about having your *own* framework of ideals that you live up to, vs. just doing whatever you want at the moment.
And using a spell to peel the hide off a *slain* foe is only "not lawful" for that character if that character has some ideal against doing so in the first place.
Remember- there are plenty of Lawful evil outsiders that would have no qualms whatsoever about peeling the hide off of a paladin to use this spell to find their treasured loved ones to slay.
(if they could find a way to keep the paladin alive while they did it, so much the better..)In this case its all about the cultural morality of the individual rather than a cosmololgical issue. Assuming you are using the base Pathfinder cosmology, the spell isn't evil because it lacks the Evil descriptor. Period.
If you have other gods in your universe, or choose to change how the gods in Golarion/Pathfinder view the spell then that's your choosing.
Icky, Nasty, disgusting: they do not equate to "law or chaos" or "good or evil". they equate to .. icky, nasty, disgusting..
-S
The Lawful/Chaotic only enters into the equation if you are breaking the laws or rules of society by desecrating the corpse.
Depending on the prevailing beliefs, not desecrating a corpse could be considered chaotic. Think about Dune when a Fremen dies his water is reclaimed by the tribe. Refusing to let the Fremen reclaim that water would be seen as a chaotic act.
When they die, their possession now belong to the tribe, and thus casting a spell like this could be considered standard operating procedure for recovering the tribes property.
Even though the spell Descriptor calls it a "Divination" spell, what is really going on here is that the caster is walking up to a dead body, using it as a component, and then actively interrogating the spirit for information. This is textbook Necromancy, here. Technicalities of the game system aside - which I will maintain that the PC's should never, ever, use (because while a certain amount of Metagaming is unavoidable, it should never be encouraged) - this is not something that I could easily see anyone who is out Championing Good in the Name of Righteousness should readily accept.
I assume then that Speak with Dead for anything but 'Pure' motives is equally unacceptable? If so, I disagree, but it's consistent.
I think the 'creepy' factor is what throws people off. In a world where killing a sentient creature, such as a Dragon, *and then wearing its hide as armor* doesn't seem to trip the bad-o-meter, this spell is fairly small potatoes.
I think you are confusing Paladin (the LG poster child) who can't break the (just) laws of the land, with being Lawful.
Being Lawful is a mindset of the person and has nothing to do with the laws, be they good or evil, in the land about them.
A person with their own code of honor that they live by and won't break, is lawful.
Whether or not that code coincides with the laws of the land they live in is quite different.
Take Devils for example. They are lawful but also exceedingly willing to break any law of any land to get what they want. They have *their own* code of conduct that they follow to the letter.
And while that code is lawful its also exceedingly evil.
-S
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I think the 'creepy' factor is what throws people off. In a world where killing a sentient creature, such as a Dragon, *and then wearing its hide as armor* doesn't seem to trip the bad-o-meter, this spell is fairly small potatoes.
That is what I was thinking, and maybe not even that... more like baby carrots.
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I mean, a hand of glory is icky necromancy. The relic of a saint that happens to be hand is the highest holiness. To any outsider, this is just a human running around with a mummified human hand that does magic stuff.
That is true. If you used this spell on some human's corpse for no other reason than to get money, that would most definitely be chaotic. And maybe evil, too. If you use it on an evil dragon's hide after it attacked your town, that's probably neutral.
I guess it does depend on what you're using it *on* and what you're using it *for*.
Which isn't all that different from fireball. Fireballing an aggressive ice elemental? Good idea. Fireballing the orphanage? Chaotic Evil idea.
What happens if your opponent is some sort of sheep or cow? Apart from a waste of perfectly good meat on casting spells.
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How do they make dragon hide armour again?
EVIL!1!!
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.....How do they make dragon hide armour again?
EVIL!1!!
I'll have you know that gold dragon was a Tibetan Buddhist and he wanted his mortal remains to be used for good and holy works after he died, so making a suit of gold dragon hide armor is completely in line with that.
I'll have you know that gold dragon was a Tibetan Buddhist and he wanted his mortal remains to be used for good and holy works after he died, so making a suit of gold dragon hide armor is completely in line with that..
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.....How do they make dragon hide armour again?
EVIL!1!!
lol The last request a soon-to-be-dead,Good aligned creature - Enchant Me!
I like, I liiike! :)
..of course, it might be wise to make sure their living kin are aware of the situation, otherwise things could get messy..
Hail noble adventure, I am the Gold Dragon Percy. I come with news from the north and.... Bernie? Is.. is that you? Why.. ..are you ...wearing ..my cousin?
I'll have you know that gold dragon was a Tibetan Buddhist and he wanted his mortal remains to be used for good and holy works after he died, so making a suit of gold dragon hide armor is completely in line with that..
..
...
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.....How do they make dragon hide armour again?
EVIL!1!!
lol The last request a soon-to-be-dead,Good aligned creature - Enchant Me!
I like, I liiike! :)
..of course, it might be wise to make sure their living kin are aware of the situation, otherwise things could get messy..
Hail noble adventure, I am the Gold Dragon Percy. I come with news from the north and.... Bernie? Is.. is that you? Mr.Adventurer.. why.. ..are you ...wearing ..my cousin?
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I could certainly see a Neutral or Evil character using this spell as a method for personal gain, but without damned good reasoning, I would have a hard time with any Good aligned PC (or NPC) allowing the spell to be used in their presence (or use it themselves).I can think of dozens of ways this spell could be used for good:
-locate and free slaves (valuable commodities)
-find antidote (...to the poison that the dead enemy spiked the town's water supply with)
-retrieve serial killer's trophies (and give peace to restless spirits)
-track down and destroy mini-Cthulhu-spawning artifact
-and so on...
All very GOOD examples.
+1
I'll have you know that gold dragon was a Tibetan Buddhist and he wanted his mortal remains to be used for good and holy works after he died, so making a suit of gold dragon hide armor is completely in line with that.
I actually used that (well, greatly similar to that) in my Planescape game ages ago. The Paladin wept when presented with the armor made from his mentors hide. It was a truly awesome moment.
Whoever flagged this as a FAQ candidate - you are awesome!
Eschew Material Components anyone?
But seriously, asking the Alignment rules to make sense is a little hopeless.
The correct answer is "ask your DM if he thinks it's evil." No other argument is correct.
If you are the DM, then ask yourself this: "do your gods consider human/sentient remains to be sacred." If the answer is "yes," then all Necromancers, doctors, midwives, dentists, and most barbers are evil in your game.
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The correct answer is "ask your DM if he thinks it's evil." No other argument is correct.
True.
If you are the DM, then ask yourself this: "do your gods consider human/sentient remains to be sacred." If the answer is "yes," then all Necromancers, doctors, midwives, dentists, and most barbers are evil in your game.
Kinda always suspected that about the dentists.
Given the success of shows like Bones and the various CSI-spawn, we sure do love us some corpse defilers in the modern civilized western world...
Hmm... I wonder what the market price on Drow Leather is...Eschew Material Components anyone?
10Pp a square meter in the Market Ward, Mate. Lady's best price, that is.
10Pp a square meter in the Market Ward, Mate. Lady's best price, that is.Hmm... I wonder what the market price on Drow Leather is...Eschew Material Components anyone?
Do not listen to these offworlders and their obscene price gouging! In Katapesh the price is nine dinars and not a sequin more! Our Night Market is proud to offer the finest quality Drow Leather, not some sub-quality dyed elf or soot-stained gnomeskin. You can choose a drow slave of your choice in our slave market, have it flayed by our master flayers, and then have the leather tanned by our master tanners all while you watch (though as tanning takes a bit, you may wish to pick up your purchase later). And this week, as a complimentary service, our wizards will use the scraps from your slave's hide to make a map to any treasure he may have hidden, funds he may have embezzled, or silverware he misplaced in his carelessness.
Do not listen to these offworlders and their obscene price gouging! In Katapesh the price is nine dinars and not a sequin more! Our Night Market is proud to offer the finest quality Drow Leather, not some sub-quality dyed elf or soot-stained gnomeskin. You can choose a drow slave of your choice in our slave market, have it flayed by our master flayers, and then have the leather tanned by our master tanners all while you watch (though as tanning takes a bit, you may wish to pick up your purchase later). And this week, as a complimentary service, our wizards will use the scraps from your slave's hide to make a map to any treasure he may have hidden, funds he may have embezzled, or silverware he misplaced in his carelessness.10Pp a square meter in the Market Ward, Mate. Lady's best price, that is.Hmm... I wonder what the market price on Drow Leather is...Eschew Material Components anyone?
Ah cool, but my elf, dear sir, would like some Dwarf hide boots, a vest made of the fines human skin, and fluffed with the finest angel feathers.
Ah cool, but my elf, dear sir, would like some Dwarf hide boots, a vest made of the fines human skin, and fluffed with the finest angel feathers.
You are a being of exquisite tastes and a lucky one as well! We just had an order come in for a dwarf skull codpiece but the customer did not want the hide so it would be a shame to let this fine beard go to waste. The braids make very fine fasteners and tassels and as you can see there is more than enough for a pair of boots.
As for the human skin vest, that can be done as well, and easily, though it will take a while to gather angel down of sufficient quality. I assume the customer does not want the down of fallen angels, though it is still soft and fluffy and warmed by hellfire besides.
But perhaps I could interest you in this fine vest of werewolf skin another customer did not pick up. As you can see, it is fine human skin on one side, wolf hide on the other. Soft, warm, and completely reversible!