Bestiary III first then a NPC book.
I would however like to see NPCs that are unique and flavorful yet not super setting specific (i.e. no chosen of Mystra)rather than generic Ben the bartender.
For example:
Fillius fighter and Billy Bob bard are drinking at the local pub, when Fillius notices a character in the back, by himself with an odd helmet. Fillus being drunk decides to go poke some fun at said odd character,
DM to bard, "Roll a knowledge local check".
Bard, "I got a 10"
DM, "That's Warduke"
Bard "Check please!"
Yes I know Warduke is from Greyhawk but he's generic enough to be in any setting. I guess I'd like to see something layed out like the "Critical Threat" NPC articles that used to be in Dungeon magazine.
I think the Big Book O NPC's should fully integrate some key monster NPC's along with some of the options from the APG and maybe even the magic and combat books scheduled for future publication. So with that in mind I think Bestiary first then NPC.Would you still be okay with this if the big NPC book didn't reprint rules for how witch hexes work, how the Dirty Trick combat maneuver works, what a mancatcher does, or how hungry pit works, and in order to know that stuff you'd either have to own a copy of the APG or be able to look it up online at a PRD type site?
I'd think that as long as there is some other way, such as a url, to get the relevant info then that should be fine. I'd probably also print that on the back or whatever, that a certain book is required or ability to access a free url for the relevant info. People will come down on both sides of that, and I don't know which side would be larger, but I don't see it chasing many people away. I'd eventually like to see those classes and other things in PF products, but I'd also rather the pages devoted to restating that material instead be used for new stuff. That's my opinion, anyway.
What about giving different possible motivations/identities for the stats... (a villain option, a hero/patron option, a foil, comic relief)? Also, perhaps some discussion of their role in a possible scenario, and what characters they synergize with?
This way the same stats can be used creatively many different ways. I remember liking one of the old Planescape books that had a lot of NPCs because of the inspirations it offered, not because I was going to use the exact character.
ANYway... keep posting your thoughts and preferences! :)
I would prefer Bestiaries to any book of NPCs. Monster books were what originally got me into playing the game (I learned the mechanics of AD&D from the Monster Manual), and I have a soft spot when it comes to collecting them. I rarely need stats for random NPCs and have no trouble giving them memorable traits or motivations, usually ones specific to the adventure at hand (or which quickly become so).
NPC's please!
Too many monster books. B3 should be the end of that line for a while. Just how many books can one DM carry!
I'm also for more Bestiaries. Generic NPCs are useful too, but we got quite a lot of those in the GMG, and I can easily apply racial modifiers myself if I want non-human versions.
Fully fleshed out NPCs outside of adventures, like from the NPC Guide, I very rarely have use for. Out of context, they usually don't appeal to me, and I prefer creating my own characters.
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To answer those who say that all the good monsters will be taken up by the time Bestiary 3 comes out, I have this to say: There are no bad monsters, only monsters used badly. Apparently Paizo shares this philosophy.
And for those espousing another NPC book...my question to you is this: What do you really want it to cover that the NPC Guide, GameMastery Guide, and upcoming Rival Guide don't have covered? And don't forget the couple of NPCs that come in each Player's Companion volume as well. Other than an NPC Guide II that coveres the new APG classes (and maybe delayed to cover the Magus and any new classes that Ultimate Combat introduces), I really cannot understand why anyone would prefer it to a new Bestiary.
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If Paizo makes an NPC guide will they maybe put in classes from Third Party Publishers?
The Godlings would make very interesting antagonists after all.
I mean if the OGC is suppose to be embraced, using the cool stuff that's coming out might be nifty. If you do it though, you would have to take a little extra space to explain things.
And for those espousing another NPC book...my question to you is this: What do you really want it to cover that the NPC Guide, GameMastery Guide, and upcoming Rival Guide don't have covered? And don't forget the couple of NPCs that come in each Player's Companion volume as well. Other than an NPC Guide II that coveres the new APG classes (and maybe delayed to cover the Magus and any new classes that Ultimate Combat introduces), I really cannot understand why anyone would prefer it to a new Bestiary.
Turning the question back on you, with all the monsters being published, do you really need any more? Sure, it may be nice to have more variety... and that's why some people want more NPCs. Having more stat blocks makes it more likely that you'll have the sort of NPC you want without having to work out the details yourself - same with having more monsters. All those NPCs can give you ideas that you may not have thought of - just as having extra monsters can. Same reasoning in both cases.
To answer those who say that all the good monsters will be taken up by the time Bestiary 3 comes out, I have this to say: There are no bad monsters, only monsters used badly. Apparently Paizo shares this philosophy.
And for those espousing another NPC book...my question to you is this: What do you really want it to cover that the NPC Guide, GameMastery Guide, and upcoming Rival Guide don't have covered? And don't forget the couple of NPCs that come in each Player's Companion volume as well. Other than an NPC Guide II that coveres the new APG classes (and maybe delayed to cover the Magus and any new classes that Ultimate Combat introduces), I really cannot understand why anyone would prefer it to a new Bestiary.
I'll respond to this one, as someone who would love both books. While I love the GMG and the NPCs therein, I immediately wished that I had a larger variety of them to utilize in my games. This isn't a complaint persay, I love having them after all, I would have liked a larger variety, with more suggestions on how to adapt the characters to other roles, like some possessed. Now, I would love a monster book because I can never have enough monsters...but I like having pre-built frameworks for my NPCs, and simply don't have time to build dozens of them individually. Monsters are great for some things, but I don't necessarily want all of my stories to be populated primarily with monsters. Now, as for the NPC Guide and Rival Guide...I looked at the first one, but...it just didn't do anything for me. It wasn't what I was looking for. But that's me. *shrugs*
Turning the question back on you, with all the monsters being published, do you really need any more?
Personally -- no. I think Paizo will be getting diminishing returns pretty soon now.
Monsters
Finding this thread a bit late, as I looked for info on a release date for Bestiary III... so you can guess which way my vote goes. That being said, I love the idea of a book of monsters as characters... but rather than specific individuals, I'd like to see something more in the vein of 3E's Savage Species. Something that provides PC options for normally "unplayable" (in a standard campaign, anyway) monster races, such as giants and dragons, along with race-appropriate new feats, spells, equipment, etc., would ROCK. So...
- Bestiary III
- skip a year, do the monstrous characters book (in whatever form)
- Bestiary IV... or...
- alternate to Bestiary IV: maybe even a big book (APG-sized at least) on cosmology and pantheon design (kind of the love child of the Manual of the Planes and Deities & Demigods, except more about designing deities than simply providing stats for RW mythoi; the two fit so well together)... or... and this makes me drool almost as much as the monstrous characters book... Advanced Player's Guide II.
But I guess we'll see what's left for a possible APG II after Ultimate Magic and Ultimate Combat appear. I'd love to see an "official" system for converting Pathfinder to point-buy classless mechanics similar to Eclipse by Distant Horizons (which is what 4E should have been, and that's all I'm saying; I LOVE what has been done with Pathfinder); VERY excited to get Ultimate Magic and see the final form of Paizo's take on spell-point-based magic. The two variant spell systems in UA 3.5 (yes, BOTH of them) are the only rules system material from my 3.5 books that I still use; feats, spells, and magical items get converted as needed, and there hasn't been a lot of need since I got the Advanced Player's Guide. Anyway, this is turning into a fanboi unrant, so I'll stop there. Looking forward to Bestiary III... or whatever you decide to put in its place... but I probably won't buy a hardcover full of pregenerated NPCs. I have my Golarion and FR books for those. :-)
Turning the question back on you, with all the monsters being published, do you really need any more? Sure, it may be nice to have more variety... and that's why some people want more NPCs. Having more stat blocks makes it more likely that you'll have the sort of NPC you want without having to work out the details yourself - same with having more monsters. All those NPCs can give you ideas that you may not have thought of - just as having extra monsters can. Same reasoning in both cases.
This is a good point... but I prefer to have my NPCs established within a setting, and a new NPC book (which I can see the value of, now) would be better off as a Golarion supplement rather than a core rules title, and it doesn't need to be a huge book. We could easily see both it and the Bestiary III in the same year, regardless of existing Golarion plans, given that Paizo is giving us more than one setting-specific book per year anyway, unlike certain coastal wizardly realms I can think of. ;-)
I think personaly Bestiary 3 is enough monster books for me. Though I seem to be a minority there. But from what I saw in 3rd/3.5 I was using them less and less as the numbers on the MM went up. Till I think I used one or two monsters were useful to me from MM5. Though I still will buy Bestiary 4...if it is good than I will think of Bestiary 5.
A NPC book I would like...to see one well done. I would like to see it use all the resouces of Pathfinder(APG, UM, and UC) etc. While I understand keeping things Core only...so those who play core only can use the book...I think that kinda of attitude leads to people who don't run core only games a little bit out in the lurch.
And I think a good NPC book is what the game has needed for years...I can use any monster of the Bestiary around ten times(or more) without it getting old...and with very slight tweaking to the stablock(such as changing out a feat or what weapons are used) I can reuse them countless of times...without them getting old. But it seems like alot of people are having trouble coming up with NPC stats blocks in a timely manner. So a NPC book wityh stat blocks can help that by 1) giving us a base to tweak and 2) a system to make NPCs quicker.
Anyway just my two cents on it.
tagged, so I can find this thread again
Honestly, I'm fine with another Bestiary. 3 is probably about enough (praying that it has a couple odd things I've been waiting for, like a Skunk) and I don't see using too many monsters beyond that. A fully dedicated NPC book though... well, I guess it really depends on how well it's done.
I've bought both the GMG and the NPC Guide so far. The GMG was great for most things, but the NPC section was lacking. Oddly enough, the NPCs in the NPCG were also lacking. I saw Ghast, Tiefling, Tengu, Boggard, Worg, Sahuagin and even a damn Sentient Ape. Yet in that whole book, not a single Dwarf or Halfing. And only one Gnome. The NPC Guide is the first Pathfinder book that I honestly regret buying, and I really think Paizo needs to put something out that does some justice to an NPC book.
I'm with whoever it was that split the difference.
Concept like follows
- first the generic descriptor with main art
- then a series of mini-statmods, with a sentence or two of flavor text each
- follow with sightly bigger statmods for racemods with flavortext and maybe art
-top off with a hook that might work with any variation of the NPC.
Possibly make it so the paired pages are devoted to a category/type, in the style of the GMG, and there's the main art on one page, the variants interspaced, and cover potential advancement of such NPCs as well so you cover variants, variant advancement, and such.
My 2c, at least.
Monsters.
Well, considering that I'll already get the Complete Tome of Horrors (a huge book of almost 1000 pages containing everything from Tome of Horrors 1-3 updated for Pathfinder), I feel I'll have to go with Bestiary 3.
But if it's more than a simple either/or matter, I'd say Bestiary 3 followed by NPC Gallery 1, the letter instead of or better yet in addition to Bestiary 4.
The NPC Gallery should have a wide selection of NPCs from all walks of life, from all classes (including APG UM and UC), and of all levels.