i cant for the life of me remember the name of the feat i think it was something along the lines of heritage something or other, its located in the APG and it allows humans to count as another race for meeting prerequisites and effects.
the thing that really bothers me about this feat is that it is human only and i don't understand why.
why cant any other race be a mix bread that is not mixed with human?
Simple answer, humans bang anything that moves.
They also seem to be able to breed with more races then most other races. Of the medium sized races they seem the only one that can breed with orcs or dwarves, they also breed with elves a damned lot.
I would not allow anything silly with it but most races could not take it anyhow
Human{Elf, orc, dwarf, orc for starters}
Half orc{ has to be human/orc}
Elf{ can breed with humans}
Dwarf { can breed with humans}
Gnome {to small, but they might try if your willing}
Halfling { way, way to small...but see above}
So really only humans have a large selections of mates they can produce offspring with.
but other than this one feat i haven't seen anything in pathfindaer that states that only crossbreeds with humans exist, why not just open the feat up to any race combination, sure some of them might be silly but its not like you are getting a lot for it. you gain the ability to use feats and prestige classes for both your races but things like favored enemy and anything else that targets your race will count for both.
but other than this one feat i haven't seen anything in pathfindaer that states that only crossbreeds with humans exist, why not just open the feat up to any race combination, sure some of them might be silly but its not like you are getting a lot for it. you gain the ability to use feats and prestige classes for both your races but things like favored enemy and anything else that targets your race will count for both.
In D&D every pc half race has been half human. Pathfinder is not D&D, but uh well if it walks like a duck....
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but other than this one feat i haven't seen anything in pathfindaer that states that only crossbreeds with humans exist, why not just open the feat up to any race combination, sure some of them might be silly but its not like you are getting a lot for it. you gain the ability to use feats and prestige classes for both your races but things like favored enemy and anything else that targets your race will count for both.In D&D every pc half race has been half human. Pathfinder is not D&D, but uh well if it walks like a duck....
except for dragons of course... but that is another mater entirely. :)
back in 3.5 there was a feat called orc blood, this feat made you count as an orc as well as your base race and the only thing it required was it had to be taken at 1st level.
except for dragons of course... but that is another mater entirely. :)but other than this one feat i haven't seen anything in pathfindaer that states that only crossbreeds with humans exist, why not just open the feat up to any race combination, sure some of them might be silly but its not like you are getting a lot for it. you gain the ability to use feats and prestige classes for both your races but things like favored enemy and anything else that targets your race will count for both.In D&D every pc half race has been half human. Pathfinder is not D&D, but uh well if it walks like a duck....
True. They are probably the only race that gets around more than humans
Dude, Dragons will bang anything. I think only Elmister gets around more then Dragons.
Are humans humans?
Are humans the less common denominator of the humanoid races?
Are humanoids thus termed because they share genes with humans?
Are humans the ancestor race, contradicting most game worlds' history?
Uh... most civilized societies would look strangely at a human trying to breed with a gnome or a halfling. Size does matter, and the fact that those diminutive races easily pass as human children is disturbing, even if they can be much older than the human. But then, precedents have been made... half-giants?
I think that the core races are not enough. The APG does a good job at providing options for them, but I still have the options from Savage Species in my mind... and more.
My booklet of house-rules has options for selecting the character's race by describing the parents (biological and adopting, if such is the case)
- if only one race is chosen for both, take all abilities from it
- if more than one race is chosen, split the races' benefits and mix-and-match until (1) you're happy and (2) the GM accepts
- physical abilities (stat modifiers) are taken from biological parents, while cultural abilities (training with weapons) are taken from adopting parents
- parents themselves can be described that way
Personally, I see no reason for a character not to be a elf/orc with a dash of gnome/dwarf - without choosing the Mongrelman race. The process mentioned above helps to build the character's background, something that's sometimes lacking during character creation. As a GM, a properly made background makes me happy because I can always find plot hooks there.
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Are humanoids thus termed because they share genes with humans?
Humanoids are so named because that's how we, people in a real world with no other races of sentient beings, call it when things are like us.
The word humanoid would have no reason to exist in the D&D/PF world because it wouldn't make any sense except in a humanocentric way. They'd probably have a different word widely accepted like Ramen from the Ender books.
Dude, Dragons will bang anything. I think only Elminster gets around more then Dragons.
From what I understand he's just really picky about who he'll do it with. ie you have to have divine ranks and have created magic. I saw him turn down multitudes of women (and men) in "Making of a Mage". Then again I haven't read anything past that.
Dude he made out with a lich, honestly how picky can he be?
From what I understand he's just really picky about who he'll do it with. ie you have to have divine ranks and have created magic. I saw him turn down multitudes of women (and men) in "Making of a Mage". Then again I haven't read anything past that.
So...he has constant potion goggles?
Dude he made out with a lich, honestly how picky can he be?
In "The Making of a Mage"? O.O
No, I am pretty sure it was one of the time of trouble area books or maybe one of the spellfire ones. But yeah he makes out with the lich chick from spellhunet manor maybe? Have to go look that up later
I am sure that there can be many silly or strange half breads but still I'm sure they exist and i think this feat should have been open to all races
I think it's because every race got a feat specific to them. Why should the Human feat be for everyone when Elves get their special race only feat that Humans can't take.
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A character in our party of Rise of the Runelords is an elfling. They are a crossbreed of elf and halfling originally introduced in the Midnight setting.
Though he did make it for munchkin reason (Small, a +4 DEX and a 30' speed), he designed quite an intriguing background based on his father. A happy-go-lucky halfling who crossbred with all common races and probably more than a few of the rarer ones too.
It makes for an interesting extended family :-)
Yar.
There is also this question: "What is it about this race that makes them special?"
(I'm going to use general answers instead of game specific ones, as the general flavour answer will (usually) explain why they have the game mechanic answer... and I'll only use a few answwers instead of going through every single race)
For Dwarves it's a hearty, stout stature developed from their connection with the earth (stone & metal), and a lifetime of underground living.
For Elves it's their altered perception of things due to their increadibly long (posibly immortal) lives, combined with their connection to nature (everything other than metal and stone), and their love of the arts (including the arcane arts).
For Humans, it's versatility. Plane and simple, a Human's shtick is versatility.
From that point of view, it makes perfect sense for the Human to get access to a feat that expands it's versatility andother races do not (instead they get access to feats that make sense with their ethos).
Just my thoughts.
~P
2ed AD&D's fluff about Halfling strongly suggested that Tallfellows had elven ancestry and that Stouts (called Deep Halfling in 3.5) had Dwarven ancestry...
There where similar sub-species of Gnomes that suggested interbreeding as well if I remember.
but other than this one feat i haven't seen anything in pathfindaer that states that only crossbreeds with humans exist, why not just open the feat up to any race combination, sure some of them might be silly but its not like you are getting a lot for it. you gain the ability to use feats and prestige classes for both your races but things like favored enemy and anything else that targets your race will count for both.In D&D every pc half race has been half human.
In 3.x
Why stick to the player available races? The feat says, "choose another humanoid race." For added fun, be part kobold!
i remember playing an elf who was part kobold. part badass munchkinized uber kobold to be exact.
Kira's kobold ancestor was a C/G paragon dragonwrought half elder sound elemental kobold sorcerer 40ish.
kira was a grey elf sorceress (with a lot of sonic damage dealing blast spells) the part kobold part never got involved in play. she ***** slapped anyone who dared to disrespect kobolds. and her slaps broke the sound barrier sufficiently to deal extra sonic damage. (Reserve feat) she had no familiar, (she had the ability to make cacophonic barriers instead by sacrificing spell slots, reflavored dungeonscape variant) she also had a variety of speed related buffs (fly, haste, etc)
Kira was nowhere near as munchkinized as her ancestor.
Half-breeds have been traditionally defined as one human and one non-human. Don't go trying to change the definition of the word. That's just not natural.
Half-breeds have been traditionally defined as one human and one non-human. Don't go trying to change the definition of the word. That's just not natural.
Kira was 1/128th paragon dragonwrought kobold 1/128th paragon elder sound elemental 126/128ths elf (the ancestor was her great, great, great, great grandfather)
Half-breeds have been traditionally defined as one human and one non-human. Don't go trying to change the definition of the word. That's just not natural.Kira was 1/128th paragon dragonwrought kobold 1/128th paragon elder sound elemental 126/128ths elf (the ancestor was her great, great, great, great grandfather)
So, did great-great-great-great-grandpappy uber-kobold have statistics other than hit points divisible by 128 ? ^_^
Dude he made out with a lich, honestly how picky can he be?
That is terrible, LoL. Maybe he was drunk and did not know it was a Lich because being drunk excuses everything. :)
I think the reason that humans get this and others is that it plays to the theme of Pathfinder Humans, which seems to be versitity.
i am not trying to take something from the humans i just don't feel it is fair to say that only humans can bread with other races, it may not be common but i don't see anything actually stopping other races from breading with each other.
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The fact that all Sorcerer's bloodlines are available for all races clearly shows that inter-species breeding is widely practiced.
My guess is that the human genetic blueprint is not as strong as that of the other races, allowing another species' genes to overwrite it in some ways (hence the feat in the APG).
The fact that it is human-only does not mean that other races do not crossbreed (they do), but that the genetic blueprints of the other races are too strongly fixed to allow for another species' genes to have a significant impact several generations down the line. Or at least, not as much as in humans.
Because, sadly, just like in the real world, as long as the creature/object has a hole, you will always be able to find a human somewhere who's willing to bang it, even if they have to "cover the face, attack the base", as a friend of mine once put it.
Don't forget that half orcs and half elves count as humans and therefore could take this feat.
So can the child of a half-elf with this feat and an elf take the feat as well?
Only if they are a half elf. If they are a full elf by the rules no... but of course ask your GM.
Uh... most civilized societies would look strangely at a human trying to breed with a gnome or a halfling. Size does matter, and the fact that those diminutive races easily pass as human children is disturbing, even if they can be much older than the human. But then, precedents have been made... half-giants?
Oh Geez, don't let Verne Troyer hear you say that! You'll have the Lollipop Guild knocking on your door... AND How AWESOME would THAT be?!?!?! I'd make them all simultaneously yell "WILLOW!!"
Speaking of which, Verne Troyer, is the example I use for "how small human can be" (2'8") when they say... "let's make an all Halfling party!" *Pffffftt!*
Because, sadly, just like in the real world, as long as the creature/object has a hole, you will always be able to find a human somewhere who's willing to bang it, even if they have to "cover the face, attack the base", as a friend of mine once put it.
Hey now, in Captain Kirk's defense, all those alien women WERE humanoid and ALWAYS smokin' hot.
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Don't forget that half orcs and half elves count as humans and therefore could take this feat.
IIRC, feats are not considered an effect and thus half-elves cannot take a feat which is human-only or elf-only. This is why a feat such as Arcane Talent explicitely states that it is available to both elves and half-elves. If it was only available to elves, half-elves would not be able to take it.
I believe that there is a feat out there which allows a crossbreed to fully count as a member of one of its parent races (including for taking feats restricted to the parent's race), but I am not sure where I saw this or if it is PFRPG or 3.X.
it just really bugs me that the only half-breeds are all half human, yeah sure i can house rule this feat for any race but it just irks me.
Don't forget that half orcs and half elves count as humans and therefore could take this feat.IIRC, feats are not considered an effect and thus half-elves cannot take a feat which is human-only or elf-only. This is why a feat such as Arcane Talent explicitely states that it is available to both elves and half-elves. If it was only available to elves, half-elves would not be able to take it.
I believe that there is a feat out there which allows a crossbreed to fully count as a member of one of its parent races (including for taking feats restricted to the parent's race), but I am not sure where I saw this or if it is PFRPG or 3.X.
The racial ability is enough and the feat in question (in pathfinder at least) is exactly the one that brought on this conversation in the first place and is human only... except that half breeds count as both races for most everything.
JJ has already posted on this several times.
Consider:
The availability of a feat based on race is an effect of the race -- having the race has the effect of unlocking access to that feat. Therefore if you count as the race for all effects you count as the race for unlocking feats.
To Boot the feat in question:
Racial Heritage
Prerequisite: Human.
Benefit: Choose another humanoid Race. You count as both human and that race for any effect related to race. For example, if you choose dwarf, you are considered both a human and a dwarf for the purpose of taking traits , how spells and magic items affect you, and so on.
Now the half elf ability:
Elf Blood: Half-elves count as both elves and humans for any effect related to race.
Note how both the feat and the racial ability use the exact same words -- "For any effect related to race."
I think the simpler answer is that Jason realized that the humans hosed a little from DnD to PF. This feat was to sort-of make up the difference since they can't go back and change the humans now.
i don't have a problem with humans getting things, im fine with them getting nice things but this feat just feels like one any race should be able to pick up, there could be all kinds of fun and cool race combo ideas plus this feat would add a crunch element for some one who has a multy race background that was just an rp element.
So, did great-great-great-great-grandpappy uber-kobold have statistics other than hit points divisible by 128 ? ^_^Half-breeds have been traditionally defined as one human and one non-human. Don't go trying to change the definition of the word. That's just not natural.Kira was 1/128th paragon dragonwrought kobold 1/128th paragon elder sound elemental 126/128ths elf (the ancestor was her great, great, great, great grandfather)
Pun Pun... *Shivers*
i don't have a problem with humans getting things, im fine with them getting nice things but this feat just feels like one any race should be able to pick up, there could be all kinds of fun and cool race combo ideas plus this feat would add a crunch element for some one who has a multy race background that was just an rp element.
Sorry, to me, you contradicted your own statement. This is a nice thing they get, and you want it to be taken away. They are supposed to be the adaptable race, while that is now the half elf more than anything. This feat was trying to fix that.
i don't have a problem with humans getting things, im fine with them getting nice things but this feat just feels like one any race should be able to pick up, there could be all kinds of fun and cool race combo ideas plus this feat would add a crunch element for some one who has a multy race background that was just an rp element.Sorry, to me, you contradicted your own statement. This is a nice thing they get, and you want it to be taken away. They are adaptability, while that is now the half elf more than anything.
+1
give them all the feats you want, it doesn't bother me that humans get things. its just this feat, this feat should be open to everyone.
one of the reasons this bugs me so much is that back in 3.5 there was a feat called orc blood and it made you count as an orc for all purposes and effects and my favorite 3.5 character was a halfling barbarian with that feat.
it just bugs me so much that humans are the only race that can bread with other races.
i just don't feel it is fair to say that only humans can bread with other races
That's the way it is. Note, though, that while only humans bread with other races, Halflings can cake with them, gnomes will freely pie, and elves bun.
Pun Pun... *Shivers*So, did great-great-great-great-grandpappy uber-kobold have statistics other than hit points divisible by 128 ? ^_^Half-breeds have been traditionally defined as one human and one non-human. Don't go trying to change the definition of the word. That's just not natural.Kira was 1/128th paragon dragonwrought kobold 1/128th paragon elder sound elemental 126/128ths elf (the ancestor was her great, great, great, great grandfather)
her ancestor basically was pun-pun (but with templates and 40 levels of sorcerer), he used manipulate form to give her the choker's quickness racial trait upon birth (extra standard action every round) as an extraordinary ability. but she was a sound themed blaster needing all the help she could get. DM approved it due to it sounding fitting and thematic for the character. since she was aroused by the loud sounds of thunderstorms (and similar sources) i had to make a will save every such moment versus dazing. if she was a pathfinder sorcerer instead, her bloodline would be "Elemental (Sound)" elemental movement ability would be +30 feet to base land speed and all her blast spells would either deal sonic damage or have the option to deal sonic damage due to her "bloodline."
I think the simple reason is if you introduce all those half's, and they aren't sterile, would there be anything but one race after a hundred generations?
Also who wants to stat all those up and provide a concept/culture for each?
After all that's where you start getting quarter-breeds and such.
Even if you limited to the first 6 races AND made all half breeds sterile you have 6 base races and 15 halfbreeds you would need to explain?
human/elf; human/gnome; human/orc; human/dwarf; human/halfing; elf/gnome; elf/orc; elf/dwarf; elf/halfing; gnome/orc; gnome/dwarf; gnome/halfing; orc/dwarf; orc/halfing; dwarf/halfing;
Personally I understand. I just went the other way. In my games there are no half whatevers.