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I would like to request a definitive answer from the Paizo team, to this old question. I have read through several posts where people are offering many differing answers. With a FAQ pending, I hope that in the very least this will be chosen as a candidate, but I would really appreciate a reply to this thread.
(Alternatively, if these questions have been answered elsewhere by the Paizo team, I would appreciate a link).
KNOWN INFORMATION:
- when Intelligence is permanently increased with untyped bonuses, all effects are retroactive (unlike in 3.5). This is as per page 554, Permanent Bonuses.
- temporary Intelligence bonuses (regardless of type) only increase your Int-based skill bonuses and your Int-based spell DC's.
QUESTIONS:
1) Does a permanent increase to Intelligence score through magical means increase skill ranks?
The Permanent Bonuses rules on page 554, would indicate that you would gain skills retroactively from Int-based magic items worn longer than 24 hours. However, Pathfinder introduced headbands that have a skill(s) attached to it. Part of this was to eliminate the ability to remove the item, and then put it on again and declare new skills which were granted by it. However, there are items like Ioun stones that provide a +2 Enhancement bonus, and have no such limitations (other than having to wait 24 hours for the bonus to become permanent). Do these then retroactively grant skill ranks?
(Perhaps either; all Int-increasing magic items should have skills associated with them; or the rules for Intelligence increases could benefit from indicating that unless the effect's description specifies otherwise, Int-based magic bonuses do not affect skill ranks)?
2) Does a permanent increase to Intelligence score increase the number of languages known?
This seems to be a well debated topic on the forums, and I can't find a Paizo team reply. On page 17, it does indicate that Int modifier affects the number of languages known at the start of the game. Items like a headband of vast intelligence do not also have a language associated with it, so I believe this also helps to support that Intelligence increases do not affect languages known after the start of the game. I would like to confirm this though, since many seem to believe that Int increases do affect languages known. (If this were so, then should all Int-based items like headbands and ioun stones have a language(s) built into the item?
3)Does a permanent increase to Intelligence score increase the number of spells known via Spell Mastery feat?
The general consensus on the forums, is "yes". Confirmation from the Paizo team would be appreciated though.
I would think so. When increasing INT with a headband of cast intelligence you so get bonus skills. I think the bonus languages ha e to be known at character creation however.
I'm not sure why we need DEV clarification on this. Certainly not on the first two points.
1) Yes. You got everything right. Permanent increase to INT gives you retroactive skill points. The only exception is the Headband items that give you max ranks in 1, 2, or 3 skills instead of retroactive skill points. Everything else follows the general rules.
2) No. Read the description of Intelligence in the Core Rulebook. It explicitly says
"You apply your character's Intelligence modifier to:
•The number of bonus languages your character knows at the start of the game."
That's pretty explicit. "At the start of the game" does not include "and any other time during the game that your Intelligence changes".
3) No. The feat says "When you take this feat choose your spells. From this time forward you can prepare them without a spellbook" (indirect quote). It doesn't say "When you take this feat and any time your INT changes during play..."
Since you pick the spells when you take the feat, and since the feat doesn't grant you further chances to pick your spells, then that's it. You get what you get and you don't throw a fit...
Then again, I can see the arguement that this should be able to change retroactively. After all, if you take Combat Reflexes when your DEX is 16, you get 3 extra AoO per round, but if your DEX goes up to 18, you now get 4 extra AoO per round. I could see applying the same logic to Spell Mastery. Of course, Combat Reflexes is worded quite differently, such that each combat round you should be able to evaluate your DEX and decide how many AoOs you get. Spell Mastery has no such flexibility explicitly worded in it.
Sure, it would be nice to have Paizo answer all of our questions, and I hope someone comes in here and clears it all up for you. I'll even FAQ this (which I note, at this time, nobody, not even the OP, has flagged the post for a FAQ).
But I don't think it's really necessary to ask Paizo to hand down rulings on stuff that isn't really all that ambiguous. Aren't we better off hoping they'll spend their time handing out rulings on the stuff that really is ambiguous, imbalanced, or contradictive in the rules?
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I'm not sure why we need DEV clarification on this. Certainly not on the first two points.
You have mis-interpreting the intent of the post... or perhaps I was not clear enough in the post's intent.
I agree with everything you have said, however there are MANY people in the numerous "Intelligence Increase" threads that have offered many other valid reasons to the contrary. If it was simply a handfull of people being confused, then I would agree with you, however it is not. It is obvious that due to the sheer number of posts on this topic, that these rules need to be clarified and that is the intent of a FAQ. Due to the number of posts, and people offering differing viewpoints, I thought it would be warranted to summarize all the info, and request clarification. It may not be ambiguous to you... but that is only your opinion, and if you read through all the posts you might realize that there are many people who think it is ambiguous.
(On a side note, I thought only Paizo staff could flag a post for FAQ. Thanks for mentioning it).
James Jacobs said that Intelligence increases give you skills ranks, but it doesn't stack with the Headband of Vast Intelligence because those items have their own rules. It deserves a FAQ, there isn't clear if the benefits from a Headband of Vast Intelligence replace the skill ranks gained by the Intelligence increase.
About the languages I have never seen any answer.
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To resurrect a very old thread.. it was never really answered officially and there is now an FAQ that answers at least part of it.
This FAQ would seem to have resolve the answers to questions 1 and 2.. but it leaves question 3 a bit vague.
Intelligence: If my Intelligence modifier increases, can I select another bonus language?
Yes. For example, if your Int is 13 and you reach level 4 and apply your ability score increase to Int, this increases your Int bonus from +1 to +2, which grants you another bonus language.
Technically, Int-enhancing items such as a headband of vast intelligence should grant a specific language (in the same way they do for skill ranks).
So.. based on this FAQ.. I would think that possibly you DO gain bonus Level 1 spells known as you increase your Intelligence... or even possibly bonus spells appropriate to your current level.
Why would you not gain bonus spells? Your intelligence is increased. you gain all the benefits for that increased intelligence. There is nothing that I am aware of to indicate otherwise.
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Well.. one could argue that it clearly states 'begins play'...
A wizard begins play with a spellbook containing all 0-level wizard spells (except those from his prohibited schools, if any; see Arcane Schools) plus three 1st-level spells of his choice. The wizard also selects a number of additional 1st-level spells equal to his Intelligence modifier to add to the spellbook. At each new wizard level, he gains two new spells of any spell level or levels that he can cast (based on his new wizard level) for his spellbook. At any time, a wizard can also add spells found in other wizards' spellbooks to his own (see Magic).
It doesn't really suggest anything about intelligence modifying this after the beginning of play... one really can argue either way.
Hmmm! probably should have been more specific I guess. The OP referred to spell mastery, not spells written in your spellbook. I extended that to bonus spells/day from increased intelligence.
You would not gain extra spells in your spell book.
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All: Yes, per rule that effects of increases are retroactive.
More specifically;
1: Yes, per CRB
2: Yes, per FAQ
3: Yes, per dev post
Skill point and languages yes. Those are in the CRB.
Spellmastery might need an FAQ.
Congratulations on a 6 year old thread resurrection.
Also yes to the original question. CBDunkerson provided sources.