What I want from Ultimate Combat is "blank"


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anthony Valente wrote:

I shall pray tell :)

Ævux wrote:
DANCING MONGOOSE…

Rapid Attack (as opposed to Rapid Shot)… Deadly Flurry. Simple and to the point.

Deadly Flurry sounds more like it should be an upgrade to Flurry of Blows in somehow making it it much more deadly.

Now what happens, when you have additional powers that do something similar.. but not the same enough to call them Rapid attack, lesser rapid attack and greater rapid attack? Judging by the name here, I'd think that it would just be rapid shot, where you take an extra attack a -2 penalty. But its not, its 2 more attacks and full BAB.

Would you call the overall fighting style something like Assault? Then call the dagger than goes with it, Assault Kurki or Kurki of Assault?

Each of the nine fighting styles had a theme, a weapon, and a skill.

Tiger claw's theme was a beastly savagery. Its weapon was a Kurkri called the tigers fang, which had certain things you needed to achieve in order to unlock its power. Tiger Claw's skill base was jump, hence many manuvers were about jump around and attacking the foe, in addition to beastly savagery of powers like dancing mongoose and raging mongoose.

Those two mongoose skills however could easily be called Rapid attack and Greater Rapid attack, admittedly..

But then you start getting into Tiger Claws main focus.. Jumping attack..

Quote:


CLAW AT THE MOON
Tiger Claw (Strike)
Level: Swordsage 2, warblade
2
Initiation Action: 1 standard
action
Range: Melee attack
Target: One creature
You leap into the air, catching
your foe off guard as you slice
down into him.
You learn to leap into the air and
slice at a foe’s vulnerable points. Like a
great cat, you spring into the air and attack
your foe from an unexpected direction.
As part of this maneuver, you attempt a
Jump check to leap into the air and make
a melee attack that targets your foe’s upper
body, face, and neck. The Jump check’s
DC is equal to your target’s AC. If this
check succeeds, your attack deals an
extra 2d6 points of damage. If this attack
threatens a critical hit, you gain a +4 bonus
on your roll to confi rm the critical hit.
If your check fails, you can still
attack, but you do not deal extra damage
or gain a bonus on a roll to confirm a
critical hit. The maneuver is still considered
expended.
Quote:


SWOOPING DRAGON STRIKE
Tiger Claw (Strike)
Level: Swordsage 7, warblade 7
Prerequisite: Three Tiger Claw
maneuvers
Initiation Action: 1 standard action
Range: Melee attack
Target: One creature
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial
Like a dragon, you swoop down upon your foe
and let loose with a devastating attack. You
leap over her and, as you soar through
the air, unleash a devastating volley
of attacks.
You leap over an opponent and
chop down at her, ruining her
defenses and striking with a
critical blow.
As part of this maneuver,
you attempt a Jump check to
leap over your target. The result
of this Jump check must be
sufficient to allow you to move
through an opponent’s space
and over her. If you fail the Jump
check needed to jump over your
foe, you provoke attacks of opportunity
for the distance you jump,
if applicable. If your jump was too
short to clear your opponent but
far enough that you would land in
a space she occupies, you land adjacent
to your opponent in the square
closest to your starting square.
If your check is insufficient to
jump over your target, you can also
make a single attack against your foe
with no special benefits or penalties,
as long as your target is within reach.
If the check succeeds, you do not provoke
attacks of opportunity for leaving
threatened squares during your jump.
Your foe loses her Dexterity bonus to
AC against your melee attack. This attack
deals an extra 10d6 points of damage, and
the target must succeed on a Fortitude
save (DC equal to your Jump check result)
or be stunned for 1 round.

Now I know I cannot convince you that those names aren't hokey, but I'm just curious on how you would end up going about making sure everything is completely neutral in its name for Ultimate Combat


I really don't find those abilities very interesting. They both seem like convoluted ways of coming out and saying "I do more damage". I'd rather see more powers that allow them to do other things besides another way of making warriors better at what they're already the best at.

Regardless, just call the 1st Leaping Strike and the second, just take out the dragon part… Swooping Strike.

Liberty's Edge

anthony Valente wrote:
In case it hasn't been mentioned yet: a list of fantastical mounts suitable for PCs at expected levels (giant eagles, griffons, and so forth). Maybe give them a WBL value for those GMs who use that or just to give an idea of when acquiring a given mount would be appropriate.

Yes, please! Mounted combat is awesome.

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

Back on topic:

You know that big monster creation chart that shows the attack bonus, damage output, saving throw bonus, and ability DCs that the game assumes an average monster of a given CR will have? The one that lets you know whether or not a monster you are designing is close to the baseline assumptions that the game makes about combat effectiveness?

I'd like to see one of those for combat characters. If it's important enough that a GM know whether or not a monster he designs is close to the baseline power level of the game, I think it only fair that players know whether or not combat-oriented PCs they are designing are also close to the baseline power level of the game.

And yes, I realize that different playstyles will assume different degrees of combat effectiveness. But it would still be useful for players to know what level of combat effectiveness the designers are using as their point of reference when designing combat encounters for use in their published adventures.


anthony Valente wrote:

I really don't find those abilities very interesting. They both seem like convoluted ways of coming out and saying "I do more damage". I'd rather see more powers that allow them to do other things besides another way of making warriors better at what they're already the best at.

Regardless, just call the 1st Leaping Strike and the second, just take out the dragon part… Swooping Strike.

Well, we are just on completely opposite ends of the spectrum. Cause I'd rather see more powers on "I deal more damage when I complete a complicated maneuver involving a certain skill" than "I'm a warrior! I heal people!" type skills.

Especially when said warriors, would break the whole HP=Damage taken, with said healing powers. I also find, things like just taking rapid shot, and renaming it a dozen times much more hokey than Dragon Seeks Path or Dragon Whips its tail.

What I will agree on though very much so is that Ultimate Combat, should give more mundane things.. Like a Scooby Doo styled magic. You know, like it looks like I'm on fire, but I'm really just wearing a Holocaust Cloak. Thus my "stance", Holocaust Cloak, is about using said cloak to its fullest capabilities.

Or instead of creating magical shadows, I run a dance check, along with my unique uniform to cause optical illusions against my foes.

Then in addition to these, Skill Tricks from Complete Scoundrel would help set mundane characters some fantastical abilities that they can preform.. Like I'm not flying, Just falling with Style, A skill trick that allows the character to move horizontally while falling..


Ævux wrote:


What I will agree on though very much so is that Ultimate Combat, should give more mundane things.. Like a Scooby Doo styled magic. You know, like it looks like I'm on fire, but I'm really just wearing a Holocaust Cloak. Thus my "stance", Holocaust Cloak, is about using said cloak to its fullest capabilities.

I love this. This is what I meant for advanced use of skills. The game already conceived similar thing, early on - did someone remember the DC 100 balance to walk on the clouds in the ELH? It's cool that a monk can do it via Cloud Step, but IMHO should be able to do that without using a precious feat.

In other words, should be able to do it because has a big number in the balance skill and is an high level monk. Sort of a class-focused skill trick.

Liberty's Edge

I have an idea! But I have a lot of ideas, and some of them are crap. So tell me what you think:
Techniques
Every character can learn techniques. They are intended to be extra options, especially in combat, and primarily for the martial characters. But any character who meets the prerequisites can learn the technique.

Characters will definitely need to seek out a teacher and pay that teacher for the privilege of learning. I'm not sure about any other restrictions, but it may be wise to limit the number of techniques known by a character to that character's BAB.

Sample Techniques
Cobb's Traverse
Prerequisites: BAB +1, Mobility
Summary: You may ignore some of the restrictions on a full withdrawal.
Description: When you make a full withdrawal in combat, you are not limited to a straight line. You must still flee in a direct path, but you may move around walls, threatened squares, hazards, rough terrain, and any other obstacles, so long as you do not move more than double your base move score. If you provoke an attack of opportunity during the withdrawal, you may decide to ignore it as a swift action (ignoring means you do not provoke an attack of opportunity).

Onslaught
Prerequisites: Sneak Attack +3d6, Step-Up
Summary: Your sneak attack is used against unready opponents.
Description: Whenever you make a melee attack against an opponent who is not armed with a melee weapon, you may add your sneak attack damage to the attack. You must still make the attack against your opponent's normal AC.

Counter
Prerequisites: Combat Expertise, BAB +4
Summary: Fighting defensively may grant you an additional attack.
Description: When you choose to fight defensively, and you are attacked by an opponent, you may attack that opponent as an immediate action. You may only make one such attack per turn.

Disarming Grapple
Prerequisites: Improved Grapple, Improved Disarm, BAB +6
Summary: You may combine grapple and disarm attempts, provided the first is successful.
Description: Whenever you make a successful offensive grapple against any opponent, you may attempt a disarm maneuver as a swift action. Whenever you successfully disarm an opponent, you may attempt a grapple as a swift action.

Double Strike
Prerequisites: Cleave, BAB +11
Summary: Your standard attack improves.
Description: Whenever you attack as a standard action, you may make two attacks. The second attack is made at a -5 penalty, but treat it otherwise exactly as the first attack.

Block Open and Strike
Prerequisites: Shield Focus, BAB +4
Summary: Using a shield grants attack bonuses to your weapon.
Description: If you are wearing a shield, you may use it to reduce an opponent's defense as a swift action, granting you a +2 competence bonus to attack and damage against that opponent. You may not attack with your shield this turn if you do so. This does not cause you to lose the AC bonus granted by your shield.

Climbing Dodge
Prerequisites: Climb 1 rank, Athletic
Description: You may apply your dexterity bonus to armor class when climbing.


Kaiyanwang wrote:
Ævux wrote:


What I will agree on though very much so is that Ultimate Combat, should give more mundane things.. Like a Scooby Doo styled magic. You know, like it looks like I'm on fire, but I'm really just wearing a Holocaust Cloak. Thus my "stance", Holocaust Cloak, is about using said cloak to its fullest capabilities.

I love this. This is what I meant for advanced use of skills. The game already conceived similar thing, early on - did someone remember the DC 100 balance to walk on the clouds in the ELH? It's cool that a monk can do it via Cloud Step, but IMHO should be able to do that without using a precious feat.

In other words, should be able to do it because has a big number in the balance skill and is an high level monk. Sort of a class-focused skill trick.

Yeah, I'd love to see that sort of stuff, provided of course the players actually do reach to the level needed to preform epic stuff like that.

The thing that disappointed me in Compleate Scoundrel was that there was so few skill tricks.

If they are added to Ultimate Combat, there should be a reminder in there "Just because it shows up here, doesn't mean that the player has to have the skill trick in order to actually do it, so long as the DM is willing to allow it as such."

Though it needs to be better worded. Basically its to say that, "Hey this book has some cool things that you can do with skills, but don't use it as a crutch to say that a reasonable use of skill isn't allowed because you haven't learned a trick to do so."

That way if a trick that allows you to jump and attack to hit enemies above your head, that it doesn't mean that the function is completely disabled for the players just because they don't have a trick. They can still make jump checks after all.


I've always wanted to see a sort of "Iron Man" class or prestige class thats basically a weapon master but for armor. He could maybe have abilities similar to a barbarian's rage powers or a fighter's feats that enhance his armor every two levels.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

Barber wrote:

I've always wanted to see a sort of "Iron Man" class or prestige class thats basically a weapon master but for armor. He could maybe have abilities similar to a barbarian's rage powers or a fighter's feats that enhance his armor every two levels.

How about this?

Engine Knight:

ENGINE KNIGHT

Engine Knights are soldier-smiths that construct their own suits of magical armor that enhance their battle prowess. Most begin their careers as alchemists or fighters, or a combination of the two, but many other classes can qualify.

Requirements:
BAB: +7
Feats: Armor Proficiency (heavy), Craft Arms and Armor, Master Craftsman, Weapon Focus-gauntlet or spiked gauntlet
Skills: Craft alchemy, Craft armorer, Knowledge engineering, Use Magic Device 7 ranks each.
Special: Must possess a suit of magical armor he has constructed himself.

Class Features:

BAB: +1
Good Saves: Fortitude
Hit Dice: 1d10

Class Skills: Climb, Craft, Disable Device, Fly, Knowledge engineering, Perception, Profession, Ride, Swim, Use Magic Device.

Skill Ranks per Level: 4 + Intelligence modifier.

Engine Knights do not gain any new armor or weapon proficiencies.

LEVEL ABILITY
1. Armor Item Slots, Bonded Armor, Craft Wonderous Item, Durable Armor, Gauntlet Mastery (1d6)
2. Armor Training, Construction Discount
3. Puissance
4. Gauntlet Mastery (1d8)
5. Armor Training
6. Puissance
7. Gauntlet Mastery (1d10)
8. Armor Training
9. Puissance
10. Gauntlet Mastery (1d12)

Armor Item Slots (Ex). The engine knight can enhance his bonded armor by adding additional magical effects to it. These additional magical effects use body slots that are normally filled with magic items. The engine knight’s bonded armor can have a number of additional magical effects equal to his class level + his Intelligence bonus. He must pay the normal cost for these magical effects as if they were magic items filling those slots.

Bonded Armor (Ex). The engine knight may construct a number of magical suits of armor equal to his Intelligence bonus (minimum 1). Each suit of bonded armor is designed to be worn by the engine knight.

Craft Wonderous Item. The engine gains Craft Wonderous Item as a bonus feat, primarily so he can enhance his armor using his Armor Item Slots ability.

Durable Armor (Ex). When the engine knight wears a suit of his bonded armor, he gains DR 1/- per class level. This damage reduction stacks with all other sources of similar damage reduction. He also adds his class level to his CMD for the purposes of sundering his bonded armor.

Gauntlet Mastery (Ex). At 1st level, the engine knight learns how to make melee attacks with his gauntlets more deadly. The base damage of the gauntlets or spiked gauntlets of his bonded armor increases to 1d6. At 4th level, their base damage increases to 1d8. At 7th level, their base damage increases to 1d10. At 10th level, their base damage increases to 1d12. In addition, the gauntlets of the engine knight’s bonded armor gain an enhancement bonus to attack and damage rolls equal to the enhancement bonus to the engine knight’s bonded armor.

Armor Training (Ex). As the fighter ability of the same name. Once the speed penalty for wearing heavy armor is eliminated, each time the engine knight gains this ability, he gains a cumulative +1 competence to his AC when wearing his bonded armor.

Construction Discount (Ex). At 2nd level, the engine knight reduces the construction cost of his bonded armor by 10% times ½ the engine knight’s class level. This applies to both the enhancement bonus to his armor and to his Armor Item Slots.

Puissance. At 3rd level, and every 3 levels thereafter, the engine knight gains a bonus combat feat. The engine knight must meet any requirements of the selected feat. Alternatively, an engine knight with alchemist levels can choose increase the number of damage dice his bombs have by 1 or choose a new discovery.


Pathfinder Lost Omens Subscriber
SmiloDan wrote:
Barber wrote:

I've always wanted to see a sort of "Iron Man" class or prestige class thats basically a weapon master but for armor. He could maybe have abilities similar to a barbarian's rage powers or a fighter's feats that enhance his armor every two levels.

How about this?

** spoiler omitted **...

Wow, I like this prestige class sir, well done. I'm tempted to try this out one day! My only comment is, personally, I'd have lowered the BAB requirement to +6 and the skill prereqs to 6 ranks, allowing a person to enter the class at 7th level, instead of 8th, just my opinion (obviously).

Again, awesome class!

DJF


What do I want in Ultimate Combat?

I want the combat rules revised! I want iterative attack penalties capped at -5, and full attack usable with a half move (instead of a lousy 5-ft. step), and rules that let me block incoming attackers. I want all combat feats to simply scale with BAB, instead of forming long chains.

Mostly, though, I'd like to see warriors be able to impose conditions on a level-appropriate basis. Currently, I can spend 2 feats to blind you on a crit, if you fail a save, at level 15. My friend the wizard can do it once a day at level 3 for free, or a little later at will by simply crafting a wand. Regardless of the specific mechanics, the end result is blindness -- why is the EXACT SAME result a 15th level ability for warriors and a 3rd level ability for casters?


Kirth Gersen wrote:

What do I want in Ultimate Combat?

I want the combat rules revised! I want iterative attack penalties capped at -5, and full attack usable with a half move (instead of a lousy 5-ft. step), and rules that let me block incoming attackers. I want all combat feats to simply scale with BAB, instead of forming long chains.

Mostly, though, I'd like to see warriors be able to impose conditions on a level-appropriate basis. Currently, I can spend 2 feats to blind you on a crit, if you fail a save, at level 15. My friend the wizard can do it once a day at level 3 for free, or a little later at will by simply crafting a wand. Regardless of the specific mechanics, the end result is blindness -- why is the EXACT SAME result a 15th level ability for warriors and a 3rd level ability for casters?

I will probably open a can of worms but.. I supppose because of resource management linked to vancian and of times per-round this can happen, and things related to immunities ad DCs.

But I see your point..


I'd like to see alternative HP rules. As it is now, everything can take it and take it all the way up to 1 HP, then they flop over if struck with a feather. At the very least I'd like to see the Fatigued condition applied at 3/4 HP, Exhausted at 1/4 HP or something. This way at least HP damage will matter more.

I'd also like to see a fix to Vital Strike, and all the move-attack feats, as they are they extremely sub-par and can't be combined. New archetypes for all martial classes, mass combat rules, fortress-building guide (for the savvy warlord), and feats that help martial types deal with both casters and with blocking enemies. New weapons would be nice, including, just because I like them, rules for firearms that make them a good alternative to more traditional ranged weapons without completely overshadowing them.


Talynonyx wrote:
At the very least I'd like to see the Fatigued condition applied at 3/4 HP, Exhausted at 1/4 HP or something. This way at least HP damage will matter more.

I do almost exactly this in my home game (fatigued at 1/2, exhausted at 1/4) -- but concentration and spell DCs also take the penalties, so that casters are also less effective when wounded.


Kirth Gersen wrote:
Regardless of the specific mechanics, the end result is blindness -- why is the EXACT SAME result a 15th level ability for warriors and a 3rd level ability for casters?

Because "level-appropriate" is an ill-defined concept at best and it's not likely to change in the near future, I would say. (E.g. Which are level-appropriate at level 15: Polar Ray and Greater Shout or Maze and Polymorph Any Object?)


hogarth wrote:
Because "level-appropriate" is an ill-defined concept at best

I agree... but that shouldn't be used as a default excuse to pretend to give the martial dogs a bone, only to withold it until they can play Chopin on the piano. If blindness is a 3rd level ability for wizards and a 4th level ability for sorcerers and a 5th level ability for clerics and a 6th level ability for oracles, we've already included 4 levels' worth of ambiguity. Turning around and pegging it at 15th for fighters makes no sense at all, unless the express intent is to thumb your nose at fighters.


Kirth Gersen wrote:
hogarth wrote:
Because "level-appropriate" is an ill-defined concept at best
I agree, but that shouldn't be used as a default excuse to pretend to give the martial dogs a bone, only to withold it until they can play Chopin on the piano. If blindness is a 3rd level ability for wizards and a 4th level ability for sorcerers and a 5th level ability for clerics and a 6th level ability for oracles, we've already included 4 levels' worth of ambiguity. Turning around and pegging it at 15th for fighters makes no sense at all, unless the express intent is to thumb your nose at fighters.

But what if you rephrase it as Quickened Blindness that bypasses SR? Is that appropriate for level 15? Who knows? I doubt most wizards would bother memorizing Quickened Blindness, but I could be wrong.

What about Exhausting Critical (another BAB +15 critical feat) -- is that more like Exhausting Ray (level 3) or Waves of Exhaustion (level 7)?


hogarth wrote:
But what if you rephrase it as Quickened Blindness that bypasses SR? Is that appropriate for level 15?

If a quickened blindness spell failed automatically between 70% and 95% of the time, you might have a point. Indeed, if we lowered the range of blindness to 5 ft. and then made concentration checks for high-level casters a LOT harder (or else started handing out SR 32 to orcs and ogres and everyone else), you'd have a very good point.

But on another level, that argument still fails because there's no non-quickened option available as a baseline. Casters get goodies at 1/5 of the level that fighters do by rationalizing it as a "1/day" (or 3/day, or 6/day) trick. But fighters don't get ANY 1/day tricks, ever, which means in at least one encounter per day, they're always going to be operating at an effective level between a third and a fifth of the casters'.


Kirth Gersen wrote:

I want the combat rules revised! I want iterative attack penalties capped at -5, and full attack usable with a half move (instead of a lousy 5-ft. step), and rules that let me block incoming attackers. I want all combat feats to simply scale with BAB, instead of forming long chains.

That sounds way beyond the scope of Ultimate Combat, at least as anything but optional rules. On the other hand, if you think of the new crunch as s testing ground for an eventual Pathfinder 2E, maybe Ultimate Combat could be the first step.


A fighter variant that dosent give up armor training.


Kirth Gersen wrote:
But on another level, that argument still fails because there's no non-quickened option available as a baseline.

The non-quickened option that fighters are using every round is presumably full attacking for "level-appropriate" damage.

Kirth Gerson wrote:
If a quickened blindness spell failed automatically between 70% and 95% of the time, you might have a point. Indeed, if we lowered the range of blindness to 5 ft.

(Note that fighters can use Blinding Critical at range and that CR 15 creatures would indeed have a good chance of saving against a quickened level 2 spell.)

Kirth Gerson wrote:
and then made concentration checks for high-level casters a LOT harder (or else started handing out SR 32 to orcs and ogres and everyone else), you'd have a very good point.

Wait -- your level 15 characters are fighting orcs and ogres?


hogarth wrote:
Wait -- your level 15 characters are fighting orcs and ogres?

If they're fighters instead of casters, it's sort of pointless for them to go up against ancient white dragons. So at 15th level, casters do the heavy lifting, and fighters kill mooks and help with cleanup detail.


Kirth Gersen wrote:
hogarth wrote:
Wait -- your level 15 characters are fighting orcs and ogres?
If they're fighters instead of casters, it's sort of pointless for them to go up against ancient white dragons. So at 15th level, casters do the heavy lifting, and fighters kill mooks and help with cleanup detail.

What? Someone has to draw the dragon's fire!


bugleyman wrote:
What? Someone has to draw the dragon's fire!

If dragons had Int 2, that would work. Which is why my homebrew game has "lesser dragons," with animal intelligence.


Kirth Gersen wrote:
hogarth wrote:
Wait -- your level 15 characters are fighting orcs and ogres?
If they're fighters instead of casters, it's sort of pointless for them to go up against ancient white dragons. So at 15th level, casters do the heavy lifting, and fighters kill mooks and help with cleanup detail.

Well, sure, but I figured they might have at least graduated to hill giants or something.


Kirth Gersen wrote:
bugleyman wrote:
What? Someone has to draw the dragon's fire!
If dragons had Int 2, that would work. Which is why my homebrew game has "lesser dragons," with animal intelligence.

If your fighter types aren't dressing in robes and fake beards, they're doing it wrong. ;)

Kidding aside, yeah, Pathfinder casters are still overpowered. I think that was pretty much unavoidable as long as backward compatibility with 3.5 was a design constraint. I wasn't kidding when I suggested that you may find an eventual Pathfinder 2E more to your liking. In the meantime, have you tried 4E? Seriously, it addresses this issue pretty well, especially for tacticalj, high fantasy game.


bugleyman wrote:
In the meantime, have you tried 4E?

Alas, I don't have the patience for it. If a single combat takes 30 minutes of real time, I get bored and wander off. My other problem with it is that I hate miniatures. Seriously, if my homebrew rules don't work (and can't be fixed) for 10th - 14th level at least, my next step will be to give up and just play E6.


Kirth Gersen wrote:
Talynonyx wrote:
At the very least I'd like to see the Fatigued condition applied at 3/4 HP, Exhausted at 1/4 HP or something. This way at least HP damage will matter more.
I do almost exactly this in my home game (fatigued at 1/2, exhausted at 1/4) -- but concentration and spell DCs also take the penalties, so that casters are also less effective when wounded.

Ah-ha! *writes that into my houserules document* That's the final piece of the puzzle I was looking for, thank you.

Also, instead of Critical feats, perhaps a single strike line of feats, if you take only a single attack in a round you can apply a condition such as Blinded, or Fatigued or whatever. Less HP damage, more SOS for Fighters.


Note - there was an Iron Man class - it was the Artificer ;p

Make your armor an Item Familiar for ADVANCED (magical) AI.


Talynonyx wrote:
Also, instead of Critical feats, perhaps a single strike line of feats, if you take only a single attack in a round you can apply a condition such as Blinded, or Fatigued or whatever. Less HP damage, more SOS for Fighters.

That's one of the things I'm working on for my homebrew game. I'm allowing a half-move and full attack, and there are options to reduce iterative attack penalties. Alternatively, there are a number of "single attack + effect" feats (including Vital Strike, collapsed into a single feat, and Improved Vital Strike options). Those are in addition to critical feats.


Kirth Gersen wrote:
bugleyman wrote:
In the meantime, have you tried 4E?
Alas, I don't have the patience for it. If a single combat takes 30 minutes of real time, I get bored and wander off. My other problem with it is that I hate miniatures. Seriously, if my homebrew rules don't work (and can't be fixed) for 10th - 14th level at least, my next step will be to give up and just play E6.

Combat lengths are apparently addressed by the newer monster design, but the mini thing definitely sounds like it makes 4E a no-go.

Have you tried Savage Worlds? There are mini rules, but they are truly optional, and combats are fast once you get the hang of it (or so I've often been told...I don't think I've played enough to quite be there myself).


Kirth Gersen wrote:
bugleyman wrote:
In the meantime, have you tried 4E?
Alas, I don't have the patience for it. If a single combat takes 30 minutes of real time, I get bored and wander off. My other problem with it is that I hate miniatures. Seriously, if my homebrew rules don't work (and can't be fixed) for 10th - 14th level at least, my next step will be to give up and just play E6.

Out of curiosity, why do you hate minis?


Ævux wrote:
Out of curiosity, why do you hate minis?

Same reason he hates America.

...sorry, couldn't help it. Blame the elections yesterday. :)


Ævux wrote:
Out of curiosity, why do you hate minis?

Dunno. Playing with dolls sort of ruins my imagining of what's happening. I like to picture things in my head, and for some reason when I use minis I just end up picturing miniatures, not people.


You know what I would like? A set of options that didn't involve hitting things, at least not directly. So much of the non-cast side of combat is "I run up to it and do
x, y, or z with an attack roll". I want expanded movement options at higher levels, things like the old 3.5 expanded Psionics handbook Up the Wall feat (with or without focus mechanic) maybe some extraordinary movement mode options for characters who've put time and ranks into the movement skills.

I think mentioned this elsewhere I think back when the APG came out. I would love to see combined Combat Manuvers and Skill Check actions. Things like leaping on to a bigger then grapple size creature and climbing it.

Give the fighter (and any other class that builds in a weapon style) a line of non-combat feats to take with his character feats that parallel a few different weapon styles. Levels (3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, 15, 17, 19).

RPG Superstar 2009 Top 16, 2012 Top 32

Kirth Gersen wrote:
Talynonyx wrote:
At the very least I'd like to see the Fatigued condition applied at 3/4 HP, Exhausted at 1/4 HP or something. This way at least HP damage will matter more.
I do almost exactly this in my home game (fatigued at 1/2, exhausted at 1/4) -- but concentration and spell DCs also take the penalties, so that casters are also less effective when wounded.

On a similar note, I've considered house ruling a saving throw penalty for low hp (or a saving throw bonus for high hp, or a maximum hp limit for SoS spells). That way, DPS fighters actually have some amount of synergy with SoS casters. A caster gets a direct, measurable benefit from having a spell-buffed warrior friend who can soften up the targets of his spells.


1. I would like a non-magical way to convert lethal damage into non-lethal damage. Use the heal skill?

2. I would like weapon and armor modification options that are non-magical.

3. I would like a feat like godless healing but with a bit more kick or being able to reset its use somehow.

4. I would like to have some uses for my swift actions. Maybe a belt that lets tie items to it so that you get the items as a swift action by backing the sting, or a rule that lets you get an item out of a belt pouch as a swift action.

5. Expand the master work system, example: +3 to attack only bonus to a sword that is non-magical cost = enhancement squared times 300. The same system as magical weapons but no plus to damage. I like to use this in my home games already but it would be nice to be able to use a rule like this when I am on the player side of things.

6. Rules for making explosives, like the ones found in the Armory.

7. An item that that can be made without magic (alchemy) that heals 1hp per 5gp average. I do not think this is asking too much since it is not better than the cost of buying a wand of cure light wounds which the cost to heal 1hp comes to 2.73gp. The best my fighter can do right now is over 9gp per 1hp with a potion of cure light. I max out my heal skill but I can only use treat deadly wounds once a day on any given character. I would be willing to spend a feat to be able to use treat deadly wounds an extra two or three times a day, you could call the feat field medic or something like that.

I would like things that make it so I do not have to beg the healer of the party for healing. I do not know if anyone besides me has had this happen, but I hate it when my fighter takes a beating for the party and then the healer says they may need the healing for later. I should not need to pay more than three times as much to make sure my character stays on his feet.


Tursic wrote:


I would like things that make it so I do not have to beg the healer of the party for healing. I do not know if anyone besides me has had this happen, but I hate it when my fighter takes a beating for the party and then the healer says they may need the healing for later. I should not need to pay more than three times as much to make sure my character stays on his feet.

Just tell the "healer", or would that be non-healer?, that he can take your place in the front lines instead. No problem. That way you won't need the healing and he'll definitely find a sudden use for it...


Some love for multiclassing monks. a feat similar to practiced spellcaster that gives +4 class levels to ki abilities (not to exceed CL), another to give +4 bonus to FoB (with the same CL restriction), and perhaps one for AC and Movement progression. I would really like to see monks be able to get into some fighter type PrC's without totally gimping their main abilities. Kama Wielding Monk/Dervish Dancer? Awesome.


BPorter wrote:

Most of my requests fall into the optional rule category:

1. Class-based Defense progression
2. Rules for Armor as DR

(These would mitigate the need for AC-boosting items & make the lightly armored warrior more viable)

3. Hit Location Rules
4. Armor customization rules (i.e. build your own suit / piecemeal armor)
5. Martial arts & Combat Styles - expansions of existing rules like CMB & CMD, just greater tactical variety. NOT Tome of Battle-style powers.
6. Mass combat rules (although WARPATH is fitting the bill nicely)
7. Naval combat rules
8. Tournaments, contests, & ceremonial combat rules/examples (kind of like how Gambling & Chases were handled in the GMG)
9. Expanded critical hits & injury rules

+1

****** Alternative combat rules **************!!!!!!!!
AC as DR as said but also segment-based combat, fatigue and exhaustion rules, bleeding and damage rules that makes your character less effective as he's damaged etc. I mean, everything everybody playing rolemaster or warhammer has been complaining about D&D for over 30 years.
All of these as optional of course, as they would add bulk to a rather bulky system.
On the other side of the spectrum, a fast-combat resolution system for parties more interested in roleplay than combat....


Pathfinder Adventure, Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

The thing I would want to see the most from Ultimate Combat is an alternate system that can replace certain parts of the old combat system simmilar to how Words of Power in Ultimate Magic can replace the old magic system. As things are right now, combat is a little too focused on standing still and doing full round attacks at high levels because of how iteritive attacks work.

I personally think the best way to do this is to give players the option to give up gaining their iteritive attacks and to instead gain bonuses or special attacks from a 'combat style' that they choose to follow from level 1. The abilities that they gain from it will be based on their BAB, so a fighter will benefit from it more than a wizard (just like how itteritive attacks work).

I got this idea from reading over the martial arts style discussions and thinking 'I hope that my characters can benefit from this without spending feats, I have too few feats to spend as it is', lol. Think about it, this would be a way to give players more interesting options AND speed up high level combat at the same time. Of course, the combat styles would have to be pretty powerful to be a good replacement for iteritive attacks.


Like to see a new spell

ANT CRUSH
School: transmutaion; Level: alchemist 1, cleric 1, druid 1, ranger 1, sorcerer/wizard 1, summoner 1.
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Components: V, S, M/DF (small loadstone)
Range: touch
Target: creature touched
Duration: 2hours/level
Saving Throw: Fortitude negates. Spell Resistance: Yes

The target's carrying capacity is diminished by a factor of 3 (see table 7-4: Carrying Capacity on page 171 of the Core Rulebook). This does not affect the creatures's actual Strength in any way, merely the amount of material it can carry while being penalized from this spell. It also has no effect on encumbrance due to armor. If the creature wears armor it still takes the normal penalties for doing; in addition to the normal penalties for being encumbered. Ant Crush counters, but does not dispell Ant Haul.


Robert Little wrote:

This is sort of a companion thread to the Ultimate Magic wish list thread...what sorts of things are you hoping to see in the Ultimate Combat book due out next year...

- A way to handle hordes of minions against heroic types.

- Quick and dirty mass combat rules.
- Archetypes and traits.
- People keep saying the monk is weak. That should be adressed if true.
- More acrobatics examples. Prince of Persia style stuff.
- Magic arms and armor.


Optional fumble rules based on CMB and/or CMD instead of AC.

Some of the maneuvres from ToB converted into feats.

More love for shielded fighter that don't want to take two-weapon fighting.

Digitally remastered rules for amor as Damage Reduction.

Digitally remastered rules for scaling AC.

3.X feats redisigned (leap attack, chosen foe, shield charge, etc).

More feats!

Variant rules for low-magic campaings.

That's about all I can think of for now.


Maerimydra wrote:

...Some of the maneuvres from ToB converted into feats...

...3.X feats redisigned (leap attack, chosen foe, shield charge, etc)...

I could be mistaken but I am under the impression that none of this is open and so can't be officially revised.

RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32

More swift and immediate action options for the non-spellcaster.

Maybe a way to counter those feats that remove the AoO for using them? You can spend an immediate action to make an AoO against someone who normally wouldn't provoke one.

Maybe a way to make a 5 foot step as a swift action? Maybe as an immediate action?

Maybe follow-up feat to Quick Draw that lets you draw a non-weapon item as a swift action? And maybe even a free action when your BAB is high enough (+6?).

Maybe a way to hassle a spellcaster, spending an immediate action to provoke a Concentration check with a DC equal to 10 + your BAB?


Some of this has probably already been mentioned but:

Alternate rages:
- no strength bonus but an additional attack each round.
- No con bonus, but Dex instead.
- No con or strength bonus, but add int mod to hit and damage (think Robert Downey jr as Sherlock Holmes) or to crit range (some balance issues there, but you get the idea)
Etc.

A series of fighter feats that capitalize on the intelligence modifier in the form of bonuses to inititive, free aid another attack action, bonuses to sunder/disarm/trip attempts etc.

An option to swap feats out for sneak attack damage.

Feats or alternate class features for a fighter to gain more skill points.


close combat alchemist plz


dunelord3001 wrote:
Maerimydra wrote:

...Some of the maneuvres from ToB converted into feats...

...3.X feats redisigned (leap attack, chosen foe, shield charge, etc)...

I could be mistaken but I am under the impression that none of this is open and so can't be officially revised.

What I want are feats that fill the same "niche" that those old feats used to fill. Of course, they would need to change both the names and the mecanics.

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