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Can someone point me in the direction of where it states that Bracers of Armor add to a character's touch AC? Trying to settle a minor dispute on interpretation.
BoA state they give an armor bonus like mundane armor. It does this through an invisible but tangible field of force. Yet it does not explicitily state that it shields from incorporeal or touch attacks.
I am making the assumption that because it is using Mage Armor to create this field of force and the Mage Armor entry states that it affects incorporeal/touch attacks that this effect is inherited by the bracers.
Is this the general consensus?
The general idea is that BoA protect against incorporeal touch attacks, but not regular touch attacks. If a shadow tries to drop your Strength, great. Against shocking grasp? No help.
Can someone point me in the direction of where it states that Bracers of Armor add to a character's touch AC? Trying to settle a minor dispute on interpretation.
BoA state they give an armor bonus like mundane armor. It does this through an invisible but tangible field of force. Yet it does not explicitily state that it shields from incorporeal or touch attacks.
I am making the assumption that because it is using Mage Armor to create this field of force and the Mage Armor entry states that it affects incorporeal/touch attacks that this effect is inherited by the bracers.
Is this the general consensus?
It adds to the AC against incorporeal attacks that ignore armor, because incorporeal attacks can't ignore force effects.
It does NOT help against any other kind of mele or ranged touch attack.Too busy to search in the book atm.
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Ah, I do see that there could be a slight distinction between incorporeal attacks vs touch attacks. Makes for a book keeping nightmare!
You could almost argue that there are four armor groups: Normal, Incorporeal, Touch, Flat-footed
:/
So I guess I am correct in that Bracers will inherit the effect of the spell used to create it; however, I am somewhat mistaken as to what Mage Armor provides. Which changes the love I have for Mage Armor! ;)
Thanks for helping me separate the two concepts: Incorporeal and Touch are not necessarily the same.
Actually, the relevant rule is in the Bestiary, under Universal Monster Rules in the description of the Incorporeal ability:
An incorporeal creature's attacks pass through (ignore) natural armor, armor, and shields, although deflection bonuses and force effects (such as mage armor) work normally against it.
About the bracers of armor the rules say this
They surround the wearer with an invisible but tangible field of force, ...
There you are.
You could almost argue that there are four armor groups: Normal, Incorporeal, Touch, Flat-footed
:/
One could say that there is even a Flat-footed-touch AC.
Getting attacked by a ray in the surprise round when you haven't acted yet, for example.
Few other cases may arise also, you can try to mix various boni denying conditions and I'm pretty sure you can come up with more than those (4+1) ACs.
-Jelly
My understanding is that an incorporeal creatures natural attacks are basically slam attacks that ignore physical impediments, even if those impediments are magically enhanced.
An incorporeal creature who casts a touch spell (like shocking grasp) makes a normal touch attack which by defination ignores armor, shield, and natural armor bonuses regardless of the source (magical or physical).
This gets into the whole philosophy/theology/and cosmology of what is incorporeal and how it interacts with magic. I don't know if even the wisest sages truly know the answer, but the folks at Paizo may have an inside scoop.
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Normal
Touch - No armor, shield or natural armor bonuses
Flat-footed - No dexterity or dodge bonuses
Flat-footed Touch - No armor, shield, natural armor, dexterity or dodge bonuses
Incorporeal Touch - As touch, but force-based armor, shield or natural armor bonuses count.
Incorporeal Flat-Footed Touch - Flat-footed + Incorporeal Touch
Only 90% sure on the following:
Note that attacks from an incorporeal creature to a corporeal one that AREN'T labeled "Incorporeal Touch" act the same as they would if they were coming from a corporeal creature against an incorporeal one. ie, if a ghost casts disintegrate it would do half damage against corporeal foes, since it treats them as incorporeal, but magic missile would work fine.
Interestingly enough, an incorporeal could technically disarm a ghost touch weapon since it treats that weapon as corporeal. It could also wear ghost touch armor.
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Ah, I do see that there could be a slight distinction between incorporeal attacks vs touch attacks. Makes for a book keeping nightmare!
You could almost argue that there are four armor groups: Normal, Incorporeal, Touch, Flat-footed
There are actually three armor class groups: Normal, Incorporeal, and Touch
And you can lose your dexterity modifier to any of them. Flat footed is just short hand for normal with dexterity bonus denied, if you are flat footed your touch and incorporeal ACs suffer equally.
It doesn't seem logical that mage armor/bracers of armor should allow a regular touch attack through but prevent an incorporeal touch. If it's a field of force, it seems like it should keep both out. Just my opinion.
It doesn't seem logical that mage armor/bracers of armor should allow a regular touch attack through but prevent an incorporeal touch. If it's a field of force, it seems like it should keep both out. Just my opinion.
That would be a 'deflection' bonus.
It doesn't seem logical that mage armor/bracers of armor should allow a regular touch attack through but prevent an incorporeal touch. If it's a field of force, it seems like it should keep both out. Just my opinion.
And it's a perfectly reasonable one.
What really doesn't make any sense is that AC from the shield spell (which grants "shield" AC) doesn't work against touch attacks. A floating disc of force doesn't prevent the character from being touched? Really?
Of course, the reason "why" for both mage armor and shield is so that the bonuses can stack with rings of protection and such, without a long list of exceptions. Sometimes ease of play wins out over logic.
But it still doesn't make much sense.
Bracers of Armor is based off the spell = Mage Armor
As such, this give a Armor bonus. The armor bonus works just the same as normal armor, except the armor is made of force (so Incorporeal creatures can not pass throw it), but any magic spell they cast, can.
Shield spell, works the same way. The bonus is a shield bonus, that is personal only. As a force effect, incorporeal creature can not pass right throw, but if they cast a spell.... they touch the shield, and the effect goes around the shield. (Think of the shield spell touching you, if it helps easy your mind).
Ya your going to argue that your not touching the shield in shield spell.... well that make as much since as a cleric not by passing a normal shield vs Blindness/Deafness, Contagion, Poison, etc...... it is the way the game system is set up.