I noticed that between the final playtest and the release of the APG, a couple of Witch familiars were dropped. Goat and Pig got the axe! (I was really looking forward to playing a witch with a pig familiar!) Assuming I wanted to use these, what would be good creature stats for them? Any suggestions?
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 8
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On the Paizo Chat James Jacobs said they got the axe because they didn't want to have any Small sized familiars without having some kind of rules structure in place (possibly like a lesser version of Improved Familiar).
He also said they'll probably show up in the Ultimate Magic book they've got coming out next spring.
OK, I can understand wanting the rules structures in place, but man, the goat and the pig were the best thing about the witch!
Ken
I know! Nothing says black magic like a goat. And there just seems something so right about a pig being a familiar for a witch. I think I'm going to use Boar stats with the young template and minus the gore attack for my pig familiar. Still thinking on what to use if any of my players want a goat or if I want an NPC with a goat familiar (which I do!).
Save perhaps, a black cat?I know! Nothing says black magic like a goat.OK, I can understand wanting the rules structures in place, but man, the goat and the pig were the best thing about the witch!
Ken
Or a black rooster. Yeah, I was sad to see no pig or goats myself. But i'm sure i'll get the Book o' Magic.
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I was kind of upset about the lack of goat myself, since one of the characters in my current Ravenloft game is a witch with a goat familiar that she used to pull her personal chariot. Yes, she was a witch with a goat-drawn chariot. Bad. Ass. (And to be fair, she was a secondary PC that only got played for three sessions, but still...)
Jeremy Puckett
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I asked about this at Gencon 2010 and received a reply directly from a senior designer (Sean K. Reynolds) - the omission of the goat and pig was simply that - an omission. Expect an errata soon to include the goat and pig plus stats for each.
YAYY!!! I was hoping this to be the case! Now it is only a matter of time before there are stats for a goat animal companion! Been waiting for a proper one for YEARS
Creative Director
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I asked about this at Gencon 2010 and received a reply directly from a senior designer (Sean K. Reynolds) - the omission of the goat and pig was simply that - an omission. Expect an errata soon to include the goat and pig plus stats for each.
Actually... the pig and the goat were cut from the list at the last minute for two very good reasons:
1) We don't actually have a good set of stats for pigs or goats at this time.
2) Pigs and goats are a bit big to work as standard familiars. Both are large enough that they're more properly in the category of animal companion—familiars are not supposed to be great choices for combat, and both a pig and a goat are Small sized and would have stats that look a LOT more like those for a dog or a dire rat.
Now... the idea of a dog, a pig, a dire rat, a goat, or any other similar type of Small creature serving as a familiar is really compelling. It's not something we had room to explore in the APG (mostly because we had to fit the complete spell lists in SOMEwhere, and they ended up appearing at the end of each spellcasting class's entry in Chapter 2 and this forced us to remove things like plans for stat blocks for pigs), nor is it an error worth "fixing" as errata.
Next year's "Ultimate Magic" WILL contain more rules for familiars, and at this point I'm relatively sure that book will include rules for using Small sized animals as familiars.
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Personally, I was surprised to see that they've listed the fox as tiny. So... foxes are considered the same size as rats, ravens, and vipers? I don't necessarily mind that they've been kept as a familiar, I just felt like their size was off.
Much as I dislike comparing/combining PF and 3.5, Arctic fox (from Frostburn, p.165) was small. I had a player in a game using those stats for his familiar and it didn't seem problematic.
After all, most casters, especially witches, aren't going to want their familiar to get into the mix, so the larger size shouldn't be an issue.
All in the type of fox, around here they are about housecat sized or a small bit larger, no whee near pig or goat sized.
Nah he is just closer to the front. He still looks damned small, just are the far end of tiny is all
Yeah I have had housecats about that size. He used to like to bring rabbits home and leave them bleeding on the floor as gifts
I'm not particularly excited about the idea of familiar in the first place.....I wish they would flesh out the patron idea more however ;)
I would rather see the familiar as an avatar of the patron, that comes and goes....and can maybe even assume different forms as it pleases.
Is it wrong that I keep picturing Salem as the familiar type from Sabrina the Teenaged Witch?
Not at all! It makes perfect sense, considering his diabolical personality!
That will do pig and goat.
That will do.
And I had the image of a Pernese wise-woman with a Fire-Lizard (Pseudodragon) familiar.
Actually... the pig and the goat were cut from the list at the last minute for two very good reasons:1) We don't actually have a good set of stats for pigs or goats at this time.
2) Pigs and goats are a bit big to work as standard familiars. Both are large enough that they're more properly in the category of animal companion—familiars are not supposed to be great choices for combat, and both a pig and a goat are Small sized and would have stats that look a LOT more like those for a dog or a dire rat.
Translation: They were hungry.
I was kind of upset about the lack of goat myself, since one of the characters in my current Ravenloft game is a witch with a goat familiar that she used to pull her personal chariot. Yes, she was a witch with a goat-drawn chariot. Bad. Ass. (And to be fair, she was a secondary PC that only got played for three sessions, but still...)That must be one HUGE goat. A standard goat isn't nearly large enough.
Ever see Jack Frost? MST3K did a spoof of it. One of the final scenes of that movie had a pig-drawn sleigh. Granted it was three pigs but it was still awesome.
Just sayin'. A witch could have a few more goats than just one. Only Blinky in the middle with the brown patch over one eye is the familiar, the rest are his friends...
Yeah I have had housecats about that size. He used to like to bring rabbits home and leave them bleeding on the floor as gifts
Sounds like Nanny Ogg's cat Greebo from Terry Pratchett's Discworld books!
Only Greebo would take on bears -- and usually win . . .
Cheers, JohnH / Wanda
In reading over the Witch class, it seems to me that having a living, breathing spellbook with low hit points is a definite liability.
But having read "Treasures of Golarion"(? -- I *think* it's called that), I have a question.
How do Paizo's Powers That Be feel about a witch's familiar also being a figurine of wondrous power?
This way, your familiar could be turned into a teensy, easily portable (and protected) object that you don't have to worry about being killed in combat -- especially since if a figurine is "killed," it merely reverts back to inanimate form, to be reanimated at some later point!
(Of course, a rogue could steal / pickpocket the witch and make off with her / his inanimate familiar too . . . )
Plus, since some of these figurines were probably created hundreds -- if not thousands -- of years ago, they could have picked up quite a bit of knowledge / lore over time . . . Sounds witchy to me!
Whaddaya say, folks?
Cheers, JohnH / Wanda
I've always allowed my players to take Leadership and make their familiar their cohort if they want a combat capable cohort. One of the current players has a witch who did that. Her scorpion is size medium and is smart enough to start picking up some fighter levels.
This has also extending to Palladin's Mounts, Animal Companions, etc. There even a history of the mount being smarter than the palladin in my games.
All in the type of fox, around here they are about housecat sized or a small bit larger, no whee near pig or goat sized.
That's just about every kind of fox, period. They're not very big animals; the largest are arctic foxes, and even so they're only about as big as, say, a Maine Coon Cat.
That said I like seeing the iconic witch with a fox familiar. Even if said fox looks rather snarly in the main picture of Feiya.