Bonus Spells per Day Question

[bfchooch]

Hi there!

I'm very new to the PFRPG; I'm making my way through the rulebooks but haven't played a single session yet. I have a question about Bonus Spells per Day specified on the table on page 17 of the Core Rulebook.

According to the table, a cleric with a wisdom of 18 can cast 1 bonus 3rd level spell per day. Does this include a level 1 cleric? I assume it does because I can't find a rule that says otherwise.

However, page 176 of the GameMastery Guide in the Dungeon Ecology/Food and Water section reads:

"Finally, including a cleric of at least 5th level in a group gives that group access to create food and water spells."

But wouldn't a 1st level cleric with high enough wisdom have access to the 3rd level create food and water spell?

Thanks for the help! Game seems really fun!

Take care.

[xAverusx]

Unfortunately, no. The bonus spells per day apply when a caster has access to those spells.

So, for 3rd level cleric spells, a player would need to be a 5th level cleric.

[Thazar]

If you look at the Ranger and Paladin you can see some levels where they know 0 spells... and that is different then - spells. This is a case where the high ability score can give them a spell. 0+1=1 while a - is a null and cannot be increased.

[Chris Ballard]

You can't cast the bonus spells for levels above 1st level as a 1st level cleric because such a cleric only has access to 0 and 1st level spells. The bonus 3rd level spell may be used starting at 5th level. Fifth level is when clerics gain access to 3rd level spells.

[bfchooch]

xAverusx wrote:

Unfortunately, no. The bonus spells per day apply when a caster has access to those spells.

So, for 3rd level cleric spells, a player would need to be a 5th level cleric.

Thanks so mich for the quick reply! The rule that threw me off is from page 39 of the Core Rulebook:

"To prepare or cast a spell, a cleric must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level."

But it seems from your answer there are different rules for "casting" and "accessing" a spell.

Thanks again!

[Ashkecker]

bfchooch wrote:

xAverusx wrote:

Unfortunately, no. The bonus spells per day apply when a caster has access to those spells.

So, for 3rd level cleric spells, a player would need to be a 5th level cleric.

Thanks so mich for the quick reply! The rule that threw me off is from page 39 of the Core Rulebook:

"To prepare or cast a spell, a cleric must have a Wisdom score equal to at least 10 + the spell level."

But it seems from your answer there are different rules for "casting" and "accessing" a spell.

Thanks again!

No not really. The condition you cite is correct. But it is a neccessary not a sufficient condition. The rule the others are citing is in the ability score section, along with the bonus spell table.

Core Rules wrote:

Abilities and Spellcasters

The ability that governs bonus spells depends on what type of spellcaster your character is: Intelligence for wizards; Wisdom for clerics, druids, and rangers; and Charisma for bards, paladins, and sorcerers. In addition to having a high ability score, a spellcaster must be of a high enough class level to be able to cast spells of a given spell level. See the class descriptions in Classes for details.

[Name Violation]

now i must ask, how unbalancing is it to let them have the caster have the spells early?

does a 1st level caster with a 18 stat having 2 more spell per day really seem unbalanced?

I dont think so, but i havent used this theory in practice

[xAverusx]

Name Violation wrote:

now i must ask, how unbalancing is it to let them have the caster have the spells early?

does a 1st level caster with a 18 stat having 2 more spell per day really seem unbalanced?

I dont think so, but i havent used this theory in practice

How about my 20 Wisdom cleric casting slay living at 1st level?

Spell DCs, damage, etc are all suppose to scale as one levels. Allowing access to high level spells too early wrecks this.

In some cases, it's fine. A fireball cast at 1st level only does 1d6 damage with a save for half, but an icestorm could wipe out a party.

[gourry187]

I hate to necro this topic but I do have a question regarding the bonus spell slots from high attribute scores.

I can understand that bonus spell slots should not be filled with higher level spells until such level a caster can cast higher level spells ... that being said could bonus spell slots from higher levels be used to prepare lower level spells as per pg 218 core rulebook (for arcane spells and pg 220 core rulebook (for deivine spells) before the caster gains access to the spell level the slot originates from?

example:

A 1st level cleric with a 14 Wis gains a bonus spell slots for 1st level and 2nd level spells. Could that 1st level cleric prepare a 1st (or 0) level spell in the 2nd level spell slot gained from high WIS?

[gravalpea]

gourry187 wrote:

I hate to necro this topic but I do have a question regarding the bonus spell slots from high attribute scores.

I can understand that bonus spell slots should not be filled with higher level spells until such level a caster can cast higher level spells ... that being said could bonus spell slots from higher levels be used to prepare lower level spells as per pg 218 core rulebook (for arcane spells and pg 220 core rulebook (for deivine spells) before the caster gains access to the spell level the slot originates from?

example:

A 1st level cleric with a 14 Wis gains a bonus spell slots for 1st level and 2nd level spells. Could that 1st level cleric prepare a 1st (or 0) level spell in the 2nd level spell slot gained from high WIS?

The faq entry on this question states that no, you can't. I am on an iPad so I can't link it right now.

Edit: here it is:
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/v5748btpy88yj/faq#v5748eaic9o91

[LazarX]

gourry187 wrote:

I hate to necro this topic but I do have a question regarding the bonus spell slots from high attribute scores.

I can understand that bonus spell slots should not be filled with higher level spells until such level a caster can cast higher level spells ... that being said could bonus spell slots from higher levels be used to prepare lower level spells as per pg 218 core rulebook (for arcane spells and pg 220 core rulebook (for deivine spells) before the caster gains access to the spell level the slot originates from?

example:

A 1st level cleric with a 14 Wis gains a bonus spell slots for 1st level and 2nd level spells. Could that 1st level cleric prepare a 1st (or 0) level spell in the 2nd level spell slot gained from high WIS?

You have NO access to higher level slots, until your class level makes you elligible for them. PERIOD.