Question: Why should the Urdefhans in the Hunter's Maze fight?
my group etablished a social contact to Izon and he lets them pass, as it just furthers his Plan.
1/3 of the 6th book is the Hunters Maze Dungeon Crawl. But Why should they fight.Following the story, the PC will just tell them
"well we're on your side. you can come out. let's kick some serpentfolk ass"Valglaunt is not opposed to Izon or anything. So all i could logically do is saying
"ok. lets go. let me just gather all my summones deamons. Go get your silly weapon thingy"This would be totally legitimate to do. But its a big part of the adventure and of the level up they are supposed to get after that.
please help
Well, it really depends on how you spin it. Yes, Valglaunt is basically allied with Izon, however you really have to understand the Urdefhan-mind set. Think of Belkor from adventure five: he was Izon's best friend for their entire life, but Belkor betrayed Izon just because he suspected that the serpentfolk would grant him greater power.
Similarly, Valglaunt is probably ready to attempt a coup against Izon. He's probably thinking "Ah, look, Izon is relying on these weaklings while I actually have true daemons to call upon! I shall destroy his patsies and lead the Urdefhans against him with my new power!" Urdefhans are ruthless, vile, monstrous creatures filled with hatred for everything, even and especially the things they love or like. There is nothing redeeming about them, and, when they are about to die, instead of attempting to live whatever afterlife existed, they actually consume their own soul in order to deal a little bit of damage just out of spite. Besides. Izon himself isn't too worried about the so-called "alliance" with the PCs. He'd just as readily murder them as be allied with them, if a decent reason presents itself.
Really, it's all in the presentation. That said, if you prefer for them to not have to fight the Urdies... fine! In order to get them the XP they need, replace Urdefhan creatures with others, or even repaint the Urds and just claim that its demons or devils (perhaps tiefling style drow) instead or something similar. It could even be Urdefhans that have been "corrupted" (if such a thing is possible) by the power of the gate itself and become mutants (that just so happen to have the same powers and traits, or very similar ones, but are monstrously insane or something).
Does that help?
Helped alot. Thank you very much.
Any time!
You could use half of what I did. While it's probably too late to use a suggestion from another thread and make the Urdefhan tainted, Zura-worshiping remnants of the Azlanti, like the Morlocks, you could make the end of the Maze the urdefhan's high temple to Zura/The Horseman/Whatever they'd die for. Vlaglaunt doesn't let anyone into the rear areas who isn't killing in his gods name, dying in his gods name, or would make a nice snack. Since the serpentfolk split the Urdefhan in two he's been running his own show and assumes Izon was overrun and killed, and he likes being in charge, having a direct gate to his god's allies, and having the altar be his.
Now that I think about it, I should stat up a cleric Vlaglaunt's got under his thumb for that encounter.
I'm confused about the timing of the Coils of Ydersius. It sounds like Vyr-Azul enacted the ritual on four volunteers pretty much as soon as he heard about it, but didn't do anything with them until "recently". (PF42 pp. 25f)
So have the four of them been hanging out in the Sacred Vaults all this time? Do they only teleport to the surface after the events of PF41? After the events of "The Hunter's Maze"? Is their presence in Saventh-Yhi purely a response to the PCs, or might they get sent up at the same time as almost the entire noble serpentfolk population of Ilmurea in PF40?
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I'm confused about the timing of the Coils of Ydersius. It sounds like Vyr-Azul enacted the ritual on four volunteers pretty much as soon as he heard about it, but didn't do anything with them until "recently". (PF42 pp. 25f)
So have the four of them been hanging out in the Sacred Vaults all this time? Do they only teleport to the surface after the events of PF41? After the events of "The Hunter's Maze"? Is their presence in Saventh-Yhi purely a response to the PCs, or might they get sent up at the same time as almost the entire noble serpentfolk population of Ilmurea in PF40?
Sorry it's taken almost a year to get an answer, but I just got delving into book 6 so I'll give it a shot, tbug!
The way I see it is Vyr-Azul did create the Coils as soon as he learned of the process. They're his "go to" guys for any matters that may take them out into the hated human world. I would imagine he sends them out ranging far and wide through Garund to learn what he can about the current state of human affairs.
In my campaign with Yarzoth being one of the BBEGs, I made sure Issilar's notes mentioned that it was the Coil that tracked down the "Chosen One" Yarzoth through Eleder to Smuggler's Shiv to recover her body for a Raise Dead. Those are the type of jobs I'd imagine the Coil would be perfect for.
So I couldn't imagine Vyr-Azul just keeping the members of the Coil "hanging out." They're probably out spying and keeping tabs on those nasty humans that the serpentfolk hate so much.
Then comes the assault on Thousand Fangs. Now Vyr-Azul knows that some of the "surface worlders" are back in Ilmurea... and they're no joke! They've killed one (maybe two) purecaste serpentfolk there. He recalls the Coil from across Garund and probably sends them up to Saventh-Yhi to find out more about the PCs. Every good assassin scopes out his target first, right?
I imagine this recall and initial scouting takes place after Thousand Fangs and while the PCs are in Hunter's Maze. Then the party comes back to form their army and that's when the Coil strikes.
That's just how I see the timeline. Hope that helps some!
My group is one game into book six, so we are very close to finishing. Things have been going pretty well and we have really enjoyed the adventure path, but I think I made the mistake of letting the players get a bit too powerful via extra items.
I think I'm going to fix this by buffing the final dungeon. I'll probably give all the 'boss' monsters mythic tiers to make sure the end is appropriately difficult. I may even have some of them gain more mythic power from the serpent god with every passing day, muahaha! (evil gm laugh)
Here's a question for those of you who have finished this adventure path: what did you think of the final encounter? Too easy/too hard? Any tips for making it appropriately interesting/epic?
So.... if Savith beheaded Ydersius at the lake of fire (B5), why is all this cool stuff still here (for example the epic library not far away at B14)?
Wouldn't the Azlanti have hauled all this stuff away? Or did they decide "ah well, since we gave them such a bad day already, we'll just leave them this awesome sanctum full of priceless knowledge". Did I miss something about the Azlanti withdrawing after Ydersius's defeat?
Seems like this would have been a fine place to loot.
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Savith actually beheaded Ydersius in C8, his inner sanctum. The spray of acid blood from his neck made the pit at C9... where his head-less body fled/burrowed into the Darklands to escape. Savith, mortally wounded by Ydersius' poison, then went back out to the lake of fire (B5) where she tossed in Ydersius' head... which she dragged out with her. I'm guessing she didn't stop to loot anything on her way out.
As for why the rest of the army didn't take anything, remember they were outside in Ilmurea fighting against the serpentfolk forces. Savith took just a small party inside the Sanctum to face Ydersius. And most of her party members were killed getting down to C8 (except Aveshai who evidently got separtated from the rest. Never split the party!)
And I don't think it ever said the Azlanti army fully defeated the serpentfolk army so they could get into the Sanctum to loot. I'm guessing that even with their god dead, there were still a LOT of snake-men left to defend the place even after Savith came out. There were at least the slumbering priests at C13 and all the sleepers under Thousand Fangs. I think their god's death just removed the serpentfolk as a threat to the surface world. The Azlanti might have been happy enough to grab their mortally wounded general and beat feet out of there, leaving behind a garrison to watch over the broken remains of the serpentfolk (that became the morlocks).
Just how I see it.
Savith actually beheaded Ydersius in C8, his inner sanctum. The spray of acid blood from his neck made the pit at C9... where his head-less body fled/burrowed into the Darklands to escape. Savith, mortally wounded by Ydersius' poison, then went back out to the lake of fire (B5) where she tossed in Ydersius' head... which she dragged out with her. I'm guessing she didn't stop to loot anything on her way out.
As for why the rest of the army didn't take anything, remember they were outside in Ilmurea fighting against the serpentfolk forces. Savith took just a small party inside the Sanctum to face Ydersius. And most of her party members were killed getting down to C8 (except Aveshai who evidently got separtated from the rest. Never split the party!)
And I don't think it ever said the Azlanti army fully defeated the serpentfolk army so they could get into the Sanctum to loot. I'm guessing that even with their god dead, there were still a LOT of snake-men left to defend the place even after Savith came out. There were at least the slumbering priests at C13 and all the sleepers under Thousand Fangs. I think their god's death just removed the serpentfolk as a threat to the surface world. The Azlanti might have been happy enough to grab their mortally wounded general and beat feet out of there, leaving behind a garrison to watch over the broken remains of the serpentfolk (that became the morlocks).
Just how I see it.
Ah, I was wondering why the Azlanti would have simply let all those Serpentfolk sleep down there. It does make me wonder why the remaining Serpentfolk eventually left though. Or maybe that is the group on the surface?
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Ah, I was wondering why the Azlanti would have simply let all those Serpentfolk sleep down there. It does make me wonder why the remaining Serpentfolk eventually left though. Or maybe that is the group on the surface?
I don't think many of them left. I think most of the ones left went to sleep under Thousand Fangs. But where did the ones on the surface come from?
Here's what the timeline would look like from what I've been able to piece together...1. Long, long ago the serpentfolk have a large city in Sverenagati
2. They start attacking the surface world taking chunks of land around Viperwall
3. They settle a second city/fortress under Garund where the Azlanti have less power. This is Ilmurea.
4. They begin taking over big chunks of land in Garund.
5. The Azlanti counterattack driving the snakes back underground in the north and in the south
6. Savith and her party face Ydersius and beheads him. Sends a psychic shockwave through all the purecastes and essentially shattering the organization of the serpentfolk empire.
7. Azlanti know that the snake-empire is done and fall back rather than try to finish off the entire serpentfolk population of Ilmurea. They collapse connecting tunnels out of Ilmurea as they withdraw (except the serpentgates leading down) leaving the surviving serpentfolk army below
8. Azlanti establish Saventh-Yhi to watch over the survivors they know they left below
9. Scattered serpentfolk survivors slink off into the corners of the Darklands or hole up to hibernate in Sverengati and Ilmurea.
10. Earthfall happens, Azlanti collapse, etc etc
11. An ambitious priest named Vyr-Azul returns to the slumbering city of Sverenagati (which is still connected to the Darklands. Wasn't cut off and forgotten like Ilmurea). He learns that his god may still exist in this other forgotten serpentfolk city.
12. He gathers up an army from the corners of the Darklands around Sverenagati and makes his way south to Garund and comes up through the Serpentgates into Ilmurea.
13. He finds the skull. Hopes to bring back Ydersius and awaken the slumbering purecastes below Ilmurea and Sverengati starting a new Golden Age of the Serpentfolk. Begin SS AP. etc etc
That does leave your question WHERE do the degenerate serpentfolk in the government district come from?
The best answer I can come up with is when the Azlanti attacked and drove the snakes back underground in the Mwangi and around Viperwall, they might have been a force of snake-men cut off and trapped on the surface. Then Ydersius is killed, Ilmurea is cut off and Saventh-Yhi is established. These serpentfolk now find themselves really stuck on the surface and over generation degenerate in the jungles of the Mwangi.
Earthfall happens, the Azlanti collapse and Saventh-Yhi is lost. The degenerates that have been trapped on the surface make their way back to Saventh-Yhi and find this nice abandoned city. That's my best guess.
Nice timeline! Thanks for that!
Didn't Vyr-Azul find suspended purecast serpentfolk in Sverenagati (#11) and they're the people who told him about Ydersius?
As for surviving serpentfolk on the surface, this is Sozothala's origin story. There could have been others up there already.
Can you be woken up,from the hydrodaemons sleep spittle?
All done and dusted
Think we bypassed all the baddies in the sanctum, and then fought the whole dungeon retinue in the final room. Very unclear what we had to do to finish off Y so it all got muddled and unepic finale. Everyone survived
I was just wondering - how is the serpent army supposed to reach the surface? Via the broken portal? Which the PCs are fixing? Why are they fixing it, then?
Uh, Ydersius:-)
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I was just wondering - how is the serpent army supposed to reach the surface? Via the broken portal? Which the PCs are fixing? Why are they fixing it, then?
The serpentfolk have long emerged from the Darklands to threaten the surface, and that was never solely dependent on portals in the past. Perhaps more importantly, the advanced serpentfolk (as opposed to the degenerate kind) also have substantial magic at their command, so they most certainly will have many alternative means of reaching the surface. Even a quick study of the Darklands sourcebook should demonstrate that there are other natural access points they could use after journeying further along the underground tunnels. Where they emerge with their serpent armies isn't as important as the fact that they will...and when they do, their powerful leaders emerging from stasis (as well as those infused with the reborn power of Ydersius) will pose a global threat as high as what you see with the demons emerging from the Worldwound, or what would happen if the Runelords returned in Varisia, or what would happen if Tar-Baphon were released from Gallowspire. As long as you look at it in those terms, I think you'll have a better understanding of the scope and scale of the serpentfolk threat.
Contributor
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Additionally, I assumed that the serpentfolk don't care about the portal right now. They've got something more important to do - protect the Sanctum until Ydersius is reborn. The armies of Ilmurea are more for defense than offense.
Once they have an earthly God on their side, they can worry about transit to the surface. :)
OK, let's turn the question the other way then.
Is there any way the players can reach Ilmurea without using the crystals? They completely missed the crystals in the quicksand. I then had them encounter some serpent folk seekers, ruling that they had found the crystals. Guess what? They forgot to search them.
They're also getting quite sick of the vaults and their madness, and are considering other ways of getting down there.
Is there any other way for the characters to reach Ilmurea? From Darklands, it seems that the closest entrance is quite far away..
I'm probably better off just handwaving it and saying that M'Deggog has two sets of crystals..
There are a lot of ways...
- Burrowing magic
- A forgotten cave system
- Newly created tunnels that the serpentfolk, urdefhans, or other darklands monsters have created and are now causing trouble in the city
- Putting in an NPC seer whose visions can help steer the party in the right direction
- Wish or Miracle
So I am getting ready for my crew to head on in to book six and reviewing what allies they may have to help them for later and prepping for the last part of the book when something occurred to me. In theory, they can ally with the Urdefhans but when the spears drop they will wipe out several important places to Izon, not least of which is his palace all the while making it impossible for them to re-locate. I don't see much helping going on after that, or at best after it looks like the snakes have been beat'n. I for see a lot of casualties inflected by them. What was your guys take on this? I'm considering just had waving my party went back and offed them (they haven't actually done the deal yet so may go back to finish them off any hoo).
So I am getting ready for my crew to head on in to book six and reviewing what allies they may have to help them for later and prepping for the last part of the book when something occurred to me. In theory, they can ally with the Urdefhans but when the spears drop they will wipe out several important places to Izon, not least of which is his palace all the while making it impossible for them to re-locate. I don't see much helping going on after that, or at best after it looks like the snakes have been beat'n. I for see a lot of casualties inflected by them. What was your guys take on this? I'm considering just had waving my party went back and offed them (they haven't actually done the deal yet so may go back to finish them off any hoo).
My party was all about the alliance with the urdefhan once they convinced themselves it was in service of the greater good. They planned to put them in the front line if possible, and finish them off after the serpentfolk. They think the dissected urdefhan in Khavith's study was Belkor and they're almost to the room with the secret door leading to the dungeon with Eando in Book 5. I don't see them finding the real Belkor and I really don't see them providing Izon with "100 slaves" - the additional condition introduced in Book 6. I think they might see smashing Izon's palace with one of the 7 spears as an added bonus and worth the loss of 1 Achievement Point.
So they've finally found Aveshai and we're nearing the end of the road here..
Couple of questions, first, it says that the spears can be locked in place by someone with azlanti blood. How..? Is this automatic, or do they need to make a UMD check 35? And can the morlocks possibly count as having azlanti blood?
Secondly, I was considering having the Achievement Points go towards how many times the PCs can retreat and rest before the ritual being completed. Is the following too strict:
0 AP - 0 Rest
1-4 AP - 1 rest
5-10 AP - 2 rests
11-14 AP - 3 rests
They'll most likely have between 4 and 7 APs.
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So they've finally found Aveshai and we're nearing the end of the road here..
Couple of questions, first, it says that the spears can be locked in place by someone with azlanti blood. How..? Is this automatic, or do they need to make a UMD check 35? And can the morlocks possibly count as having azlanti blood?
Secondly, I was considering having the Achievement Points go towards how many times the PCs can retreat and rest before the ritual being completed. Is the following too strict:
0 AP - 0 Rest
1-4 AP - 1 rest
5-10 AP - 2 rests
11-14 AP - 3 restsThey'll most likely have between 4 and 7 APs.
Well can the PCs do the DC 35 check? If so, let them roll and be dramatic, otherwise just let them use morlock blood.
For the second part, this seems very reasonable. When I ran, my players rested once.
Well can the PCs do the DC 35 check? If so, let them roll and be dramatic, otherwise just let them use morlock blood.For the second part, this seems very reasonable. When I ran, my players rested once.
Thanks!
They've just started to look at the spires together with Aveshai now, but they seemed quite stuck. However, they might not need them. With three 16th level teleporters (witch, wizard, cleric), they have calculated that they can ship a little over 100 soldiers down to Ilmurea each day. That's the entire army in 4-5 days!
I am inclined to encourage them. The spear method seems overly complicated and I'm not sure if seven ziggurats drilling down into the ground Armageddon style is cool or silly. Also, while the hole is drilled down to Ilmurea, how do they travel from the ceiling of Ilmurea and down to the ground? It's 200 feet.
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"Once the spears are in place, spiraling ramps form on the exteriors of the spears, connecting to the corkscrew tunnel ledges and providing a means for troops to descend from the ceiling to the floor of Ilmurea’s cavern." (pg. 32)
Magic. The spears leave a stone shaped corkscrew ledge that continues around the spears to the floor of Ilmurea.
EDIT: I also couldn't remember how tall the Spears were so I checked.
Book 3, pg 8: "Protruding from the already lofty tops of seven 100-foot-high ziggurats, these narrow monoliths extend a further 100 feet into the sky."
Which brings up an interesting idea. The Spears are 100 ft tall but being held on/in 100 ft tall ziggurats. Assuming the Spears are held upright in the ziggurats, they could actually be 200 ft tall... thus nearly reaching the roof of Ilmurea.
Just a thought...
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I don't think it is silly at all when you know the reason they were built. Just let that reason come out through their investigations of the Saventh-Yi.
Yeah, OK, so I can envision how this works at least. Still, the players don't look too interested in figuring out this puzzle when they have their own way of transport, a method that doesn't involve destroying the base of one of their allies (well, supposed ally).
On the other hand, the topside armies might be worried that their return depends on the teleporters surviving..
There is the portal thru the Vaults. The Vault is full of the crazy midnight dust of madness but it beats dying alone in the darklands. (Yeah there's the Argental Font to theoretically fix it, but it's ALSO in a midnight dust-filled Vault so what you'd gain on the swings, you'd lose on the roundabouts.) Still it's a way out.
Also Juliver/Eando and co entered thru the Darklands. You COULD exit through them, though it would take about a month or so to get to Varisia.
After 3+ years and 63 sessions, they entered the boss fight last night. We took a break there and will resume play in two weeks.
It has been a long ride, but I hope I manage to make the final fight memorable. Any advice for the final fight with Vyr Azul?
I'm thinking of having Nazith-Yol be down there, having teleported down when the alarm was set off. I don't see the point of Khestath being down there. All my PCs are flying, so he wouldn't have any chance of reaching them.
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After 3+ years and 63 sessions, they entered the boss fight last night. We took a break there and will resume play in two weeks.
It has been a long ride, but I hope I manage to make the final fight memorable. Any advice for the final fight with Vyr Azul?
I'm thinking of having Nazith-Yol be down there, having teleported down when the alarm was set off. I don't see the point of Khestath being down there. All my PCs are flying, so he wouldn't have any chance of reaching them.
Personally, I'd recommend using a few mythic rules options to ratchet things up, especially for Ydersius.
congratulations, we're at the 1/2 way point of book 3 and I'm so psyched to keep this thing moving. Everyone is having a blast.
Personally, I'd recommend using a few mythic rules options to ratchet things up, especially for Ydersius.
Not familiar with the mythic rules at all, any concrete advice? I'm just a little worried that it will be too easy. They've breezed through most of the Sanctum (although they accidentally went the right way at once). They know this is the final fight, so I am guessing they will teleport away and rest up, buff up and get back down there.
Both the tank and the DPS have an AC of about 40, so melee combat is mostly futile at this point.
I'm thinking of putting up a teleport trap down there (I did so in the Fortress of a Thousand Fangs too), and maybe switching out some of Vyr-Azul's spells to better combat the party.
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Not familiar with the mythic rules at all, any concrete advice?
Read Up:
Mythic Monsters for Ydersius. The easiest thing to do would be to give him the Invincible simple template. That will take him to CR 20, AC 39, give him DR 10/epic, Resist 15 vs. all forms of energy beyond those he already has, grants him 20 mythic bonus hit points, as well as the ability to block attacks and make a second save against ongoing effects...although, I'd probably recommend dropping the second save ability and trading it out so he can gain dual initiative and take more actions per round. Since he's already getting +36 on his attacks (and +31 with his tail slap, which can grab and constrict), your melee PCs should have their hands full for quite awhile with him.
Mythic Hierophant for Vyr-Azul. You should probably go a little easier with this one, because if you make Vyr-Azul into an absolute mythic powerhouse, the PCs will struggle to handle Ydersius when he crawls out of the Chasm of Retreat (at C9). At most, two mythic tiers as a hierophant should be sufficient. It'll grant him amazing initiative so he can take multiple actions per round (which should enable him to make an attack in melee and cast a spell). He'll also be harder to kill and you can either grant his animal companion, Qestl, some significant melee capability with beast's fury and mythic companion, or boost Vyr-Azul's spellcasting power with recalled blessing or inspired spell and then give him the flexible counterspell path ability to nullify a PC spellcaster. Or, a better option might be to give him a legendary item or mythic spellcasting from the universal path abilities, thereby ratcheting up his options in combat. If you go with mythic spellcasting, you might consider giving him access to mythic dimensional lock so he can prevent the PCs from using teleport so easily...all while leaving his own teleportation spell-like abilities unaffected (i.e., if the PCs want to "scry and fry" as they say, make sure Vyr-Azul can do the same...and bring Ydersius along with him).
Hope that helps,
--Neil
Not familiar with the mythic rules at all, any concrete advice?Read Up:
** spoiler omitted **...
Thanks! I will have to read up on what the different abilities do, but I will give it a shot! The characters have actually not been able to level to 17 yet, but I think I will tell them to level. It's the final fight, after all :)
They've coming in fully rested and buffed, so I hope it'll be a close fight, but that they are victorious.