I've decided to make a Dr. Doom styled character based off of this picture.
How can I best represent his Pathfinder counterpart using only core rules and 25-point buy?
I've decided to make a Dr. Doom styled character based off of this picture.
How can I best represent his Pathfinder counterpart using only core rules and 25-point buy?
A Wizard or Sorceror with all the item creation feats and more money than god.
Nearly all of Doom's power comes from his inventions.
Mystic Theurge with all the item creation feats?
I've decided to make a Dr. Doom styled character based off of this picture.
How can I best represent his Pathfinder counterpart using only core rules and 25-point buy?
Doom wears heavy armor. That's just an unavoidable fact. There's some kind of caster in there, as well. He's ridiculously smart, so this all points to, IMHO, a wizard/fighter/eldrichknight.
I severely hope this character is for Kingmaker. I mean, Doom is royalty, right?
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Here's an artifact-level version of Doom's Armor.
Doom's Armor
Adamantine Full Plate +5
Ability Enhancement Bonuses (+10 Strength, +4 Dexterity)
No Spell Failure Chance, Max Dexterity Bonus, or Armor Check Penalty
Greater Energy Resistance (30 / Acid, Cold, Electricity, Fire, Sonic)
Fortification (75% Ignore Critical Hit / Sneak Attack Damage)
Invulnerability (DR 10/-), Spell Resistance (SR 19)
Spell-Like Abilities:
Continually Active: Arcane Sight, True Seeing
At Will: Color Spray, Fly, Overland Flight, Shocking Grasp (5d6)
Six/Day: Burning Hands (5d4), Chain Lightning (20d6), Lightning Bolt (10d6), Scorching Ray (4d6 × 3)
Three/Day: Disintegrate (40d6), Enervation, Forcecage, Resilient Sphere, Telekinetic Sphere, Wall of Force
As for Doom himself, I'd go with a very high level arcane bloodline sorcerer, although the argument could be made for wizard as well (or some of both). He's also got quite a few levels in fighter, and a few in rogue (he was a gypsy after all). To be honest, a sub-epic level character can't really do Doom justice. He should really be about 20th level in Sorcerer, maybe 12th or so Wizard if you choose to give him Wizard levels, 12th or so in Fighter (or maybe just a few and Eldrich Knight for the rest), and maybe 6th in Rogue.
His physical stats should be above average, but don't need to be amazing, as the armor augments them, although he should have a decently high Constitution. His mental stats are all through the roof, I'd give him a Headband of Mental Superiority +6.
Pathfinder doesn't really have a decent way to show off his technological or scientific abilities other than to max out relevant Knowledge skills. I'd say he should have these skills maxed out: Bluff, Diplomacy, Disable Device, Escape Artist, Fly, Intimidate, Knowledge (Arcana, Engineering, History, Nobility, Planes, Religion), Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Survival, Use Magic Device.
Finally, he has one ability that I haven't really covered. He can use a specialized version of Magic Jar, that directly transfers his soul into that of his victim. His victim's soul does not leave the body, it is just rendered into a helpless passenger within it's own body. This ability has no set duration, it last until Doom abandons the host body for another or for his own (or a re-created version of his own).
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A note about Doom's Sorcerer spell selection. He obviously doesn't have much need for blasting, as his armor has that mostly taken care of. Maybe one or two blast-type spells. He'd probably have mostly utility type spells, although there would be a minor focus on abjuration, divination, and summoning.
The Artificer from Tome Of Secrets might work.
it gets all of the item creation feats already, and its "weird science" abilities fit with Doom's theme of mixing magic and technology. Just say the inventions are attachments to his armor. A lightning bolt caster on his hand for example, a belt unit with flight, ect.
I know its not exactly balanced, but then neither is Doom.
As for stats, you could never do Doom justice with a 25 point buy. He needs max Int, high Wis and Cha, and good stats in Str and Con. Honestly, Dex is the only one i can see as a dump stat for him.
I just realised something any Doom character will have to have: Craft Construct. Doom is famous in the comics for his robots. He even goes as far at to make robot copies of himself as his army, the legendary "doombots"
He never does anything himself if he can send a doombot to take his place. How many times have the heroes captured him, just to have him self destruct and be revealed as a robot copy?
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I'm basically doing Doom himself, not a Doom-based character. But even if you're looking for a Doom-based character, hopefully some of what I suggest can be usable.
The problem with cleric is that in his view, any gods should be bowing before him, not the other way around. Plus, his powers are definitely arcane in nature.
As also said above, even as a 1st level character, Doom is well beyond a 25-point buy. Hell, his 1st level mental abilities alone should all be maxed out: 20 Int, 18 Wis, 18 Cha. And thats ignoring the fact that he's got a pretty decent Str and Con (no less than 16 each), and at minimum an average Dex (10-12ish).
If you did go cleric, I wouldn't give him the Destruction domain...that's not really Doom's thing.
and a few in rogue (he was a gypsy after all).
OOOooh ooooh no. no you didn't?!? >_<
Doom is my favourite Marvel character.
However, when reasoning his stats I believe it'd be a good idea to keep relative values in mind.
However... when we're dealing with the Marvel universe we're going to be juggling values relative to.. gods.
..and then trying to port his stats/values into DnD context?
Ouch.
So aye, a Doom-esqe DnD character with stats relative to the campaign world rather than the Marvel universe.
Personally, I'd simply go for armoured wizard with decent charisma -
- the character doesn't need super high charisma. They could instead make use of circumstance bonuses via their actions (crushing a poor peasant, clicking fingers to have the army walk in etc etc)
3.5 Warlock with the Eldritch Blasts (Goes rignt along with the Marvel style blasts of the comic book mystics) with a massively tricked out suit of armor, similar to the above mentioned. Most certainly maxed out knowledge skills and UMD (The UMD skills would cartainly allow him to play with others peoples toys). The Warlocks crafting ability would also allow him to really play across different fields of magic when creating his own stuff too.
What's the level limit as far as classes go? Are we just limited to Core Rulebook classes or can we suggest 3rd party core classes and APG classes as well?
I guess APG is fine. As for level limits? Assume a 20 level cap and that classes can't go above their normal maximums (no 12th-level eldritch knights for example).
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What's the level limit as far as classes go? Are we just limited to Core Rulebook classes or can we suggest 3rd party core classes and APG classes as well?I guess APG is fine. As for level limits? Assume a 20 level cap and that classes can't go above their normal maximums (no 12th-level eldritch knights for example).
Thanks for the quick reply!
I'll ponder this at work tonight and see what I can up with.
If you're willing to go for a more Ultimate Dr. Doom, then Warforged would be viable. Just that he wasn't made, he was transmuted. It'd help with the visuals and be pretty awesome in general. I second the Warlock suggestion, too. But, like most comic book characters, Doom really should be Gestalt.
the character doesn't need super high charisma.You gotta be kidding me. Not only is he a "benevolent" tyrant king of his own country, but his people actually love him as well. If anything, his charisma is on par with his intelligence.
It's too bad he said Core Only, cause I'm thinking Ultimate Magus on this one.
It's too bad he said Core Only, cause I'm thinking Ultimate Magus on this one.the character doesn't need super high charisma.You gotta be kidding me. Not only is he a "benevolent" tyrant king of his own country, but his people actually love him as well. If anything, his charisma is on par with his intelligence.
Or Eldritch Theurge...
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Yeah, just evil cleric with heavy armor proficiency and lots of item creation feats. Why Mage? And Doom is not a hand-to-hand warrior so no Eldrich Knights.
I commented on the arcane vs divine earlier. Beyond the obvious disdain he would have praying to another being to gain powers, the sorcery he has shown in the comics is much more akin to arcane magic than divine.
While he's more of a schemer, Doom is perfectly comfortable and capable of going to toe to toe with most of his enemies.
I was thinking of Rogue 3/Wizard 3/Arcane Trickster 10/Fighter 1/Eldritch Knight 10. CR 25-ish, with just about enough arcane spellcasting to get the epic feat Automatic Still Spell for the casting in full plate goodness.
Also, that picture looks like a marut in a robe. A MONK'S ROBE???? How badass would that be? Especially when combined with the hands of thunder and lightning and Huge size.....!
Is there an "Arcane Knight" prc that is the Eldritch Knight of warlocks?
Maybe....
Proficient in all Martial Weapons
Ability to use a Lesser Invocation, 3d6 Eldritch Blast
Class Features
BAB: +1
Good Saves: Fortitude
Hit Dice: 1d10
Some skills.
LEVEL ABILITY
1. Bonus Feat, Diverse Training
2. +1d6 Eldritch Blast
3. Invocation
4. +1d6 Eldritch Blast
5. Bonus Feat
6. +1d6 Eldritch Blast
7. Invocation
8. +1d6 Eldritch Blast
9. Bonus Feat
10. +1d6 Eldritch Blast, Eldritch Critical, Invocation
Diverse Training (Ex). Arcane Knight levels stack with Fighter levels for the purposes of qualifying for feats that require a minimum Fighter level. Arcane Knights stack with Warlock levels for determining the level of invocation the Arcane Knight can select at levels 3, 7, and 10.
Eldritch Critical (Ex). Upon scoring a critical hit with a weapon, you can choose to target your opponent with either an eldritch blast or an invocation as an immediate action. If you score a critical hit with an eldritch blast, you can choose to target your opponent with an invocation as an immediate action.
Dr. Doom awesomeness aside...is anyone else thinking that pic must be what Razmir looks like. I.e. Razmiran
He would be just about the perfect person to fill the Dr. Doom armor in Golarion. And besides, that picture is perfect for him. Not only that, but Razmir has started his own religion and convinced the people of his nation that he is a living god. I seem to recall Doom doing something like that at one point. Coincidence?
the character doesn't need super high charisma.You gotta be kidding me. Not only is he a "benevolent" tyrant king of his own country, but his people actually love him as well. If anything, his charisma is on par with his intelligence.
..aye, because he does good things for them.
As my motherBot9000 always displayed, ''Do good things, have a cool castle and an army of robots and people will love you. *SYNTAX ERROR*
So really, yes, he doesn't need a super high charisma -- his fame/reputation can provide huge social bonuses when dealing with those effected by his good actions(his people) and those effected by his bad ations (his enemies/everyone else).
(..nor should we mistake cool for charisma. My scooter is cool and it only has a charisma of 13. Things can be considered cool, terrifying, beautiful as much as people. Does this mean they have charisma scores? Events can also be 'cool' 'terrifying' etc... ..and yes, we're entering the wonderful world of a subjective realty so.. @_@
You don't need a high charisma to be loved/feared by millions..
..but of course, it does help.
As does:
Love
- A generous nature and lots of cash!
- Healing powers!
- Saving the world from annhilation.. *again*
- resembling a cute kitten
- Generally doing good things and being nice to people
Fear
- An army - of robots, winged monkeys, enslaved mole men, whatever
- Any doomsday device/world destroying artifact/favour of a hungry god
- The ability to reduce things, ideally people, to ash/dust/gooey mess/mulch/pool of steaming slime with a gesture- A beard
''Thank you... you risked your life and saved my baby! Now get lost you low charisma creep!''
Something to consider is that Doom is just a mortal man, albeit one who has pushed his mental abilities to superhuman levels, but his physical abilities are merely extraordinary, rather than extreme.
I would definitely class him as a Wizard/Fighter/Eldritch Knight in the Epic levels, 16 levels of Wizard, 4 of Fighter, 10 of Eldritch Knight. His physical prowess comes more from his armor, as does a great deal of his destructive and protective abilities. I'd even go so far as to argue that Doom would be a Diviner Wizard, constantly prying at secrets the Multiverse dares not give up to mere Mortals, taking the merest scraps of dark or forbidden knowledge and building an empire strong enough to challenge the very Gods with it while always stealing, bargaining or beating down those who would stand between him and greater power.
His gauntlets would likely be able to cast Lightning Bolt (right Gauntlet) and Polar Ray (left Gauntlet) at will, his belt would be a Belt of the Titan, increasing his physical stats by +6 and he would also likely have used tomes to increase all attributes by +5 permanently. His Armor would be Mithril and likely have a potent, unique enchantment that grants almost total immunity to spells under 7th level and Death effects. Also remember some of his items, his necklace, rings and so-forth, are possibly Epic in and of themselves.
He's also likely a Still Spell metamagic user, his Cloak would allow him to teleport, shift to various Planes and other nifty tricks, his Boots would give him flight, his helmet would provide protection from mental attacks from any alignment, the ability to see magic and invisibility, to see all around himself to avoid being flanked and possibly telepathy and suggestion powers to boot.
Doom never seems to use a weapon, being content to pound the living crap out of things with his bare hands if things get that desperate, but nominally he's running around blasting things, wearing Doom-Brand versions of the Destroyer Armor or giving monologues while thousands of Tin Golems (Doombots) march on his enemies, although in reality I'd argue he creates mithril and adamantite versions of Iron Golems that can fly and shoot lightning bolts, but that's just me.
And yes, I wonder why nobody has noticed most of the Old-School Marvel villains have tragic pasts. Magneto, Doom, Namor, so many of them, even Kingpin (even if he is a completely evil, ruthless, murderous sonnovasumo, he was still my favourite villain because he was ordinary yet could wipe the floor with a great many 'A' Grade heroes given the chance.) all had moments in their pasts where it was the cruelty or indifference of the world that turned their hearts against all others.
I wonder, if Doom had become a Hero rather than a Villain ... he'd possibly be one of the most powerful forces in the Marvel universe. Of course, Reed Richards would have nobody to butt heads with, alas. Such is life!
Iron golem with young template to reduce to Medium size. Add Int score, skills, and feats, and jack up Cha a bit. Add 14 levels of sorcerer or wizard. Tweak stats as necessary to conform with CR 20 creature.
Here's a rough draft:
Victor, the Doom in Iron
CR 20; XP 307,200
LE Medium construct evoker 14
Init +2; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision; Perception +19
DEFENSE
AC 30, touch 12, flat-footed 28 (+2 Dex, +18 natural)
hp 168 (18d10+20 plus 14d6)
Fort +10, Ref +12, Will +16
DR 15/adamantine; Immune construct traits, magic
OFFENSE
Speed 20 ft.
Melee 2 slams +34 (2d10+13/17-20), or
Melee 2 slams +22 (2d10+37/17-20, Power Attack)
Special Attacks breath weapon, elemental wall (14 rounds/day), force missile (1d4+7 points of damage, 6/day), intense spells (+7 damage to evocation spells), powerful blows
Spells per Day (4/5+1/5+1/5+1/4+1/3+1/3+1/2+1)
STATISTICS
Str 28, Dex 15, Con --, Int 17, Wis 13, Cha 14
Base Atk +25; CMB +34 (+36 sunder and trip); CMD 46 (48 vs. sunder and trip)
Feats Combat Casting, Combat Expertise, Craft Construct, Craft Magic Arms and Armor (B), Craft Wondrous Item (B), Critical Focus, Improved Critical (slam), Improved Natural Attack, Improved Sunder, Improved Trip, Intimidating Prowess, Leadership, Lunge, Magical Aptitude, Power Attack, Scribe Scroll (B), Staggering Critical, Stunning Critical, Throw Anything
Skills Disable Device +21, Intimidate +29, Knowledge (arcana) +20, Knowledge (engineering) +20, Knowledge (nobility) +20, Knowledge (planes) +20, Perception +19, Sense Motive +19, Spellcraft +24, Use Magic Device +24
Languages Common, Elven, Ignan, Infernal
SQ arcane bond (signet ring), arcane school (evocation)
SPECIAL ABILITIES
Breath Weapon (Su): As a free action once every 1d4+1 rounds, an iron golem can exhale a 10-foot cube of poisonous gas. This gas cloud persists for 1 round; any creature within the area when the golem creates it (as well as any creature that passes through the cloud during the remainder of that round) is exposed to the cloud's poisonous effects. This poison is magically created each time the golem uses this power.
Breath weapon - inhaled; save Fort 26; frequency 1/round for 4 rounds; effect 1d4 Constitution damage; cure 2 saves. The save DC is Constitution-based.
Immunity to Magic (Ex): An iron golem is immune to spells or spell-like abilities that allow spell resistance. Certain spells and effects function differently against it, as noted below.
* A magical attack that deals electricity damage slows an iron golem (as the slow spell) for 3 rounds, with no saving throw.
* A magical attack that deals fire damage breaks any slow effect on the golem and heals 1 point of damage for each 3 points of damage the attack would otherwise deal. If the amount of healing would cause the golem to exceed its full normal hit points, it gains any excess as temporary hit points. An iron golem gets no saving throw against fire effects.
* An iron golem is affected normally by rust attacks, such as those of a rust monster or a rusting grasp spell.
Powerful Blows (Ex): An iron golem inflicts one and a half times its Strength modifier and threatens a critical hit on a 19-20 with its slam attacks.
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I've observed that, contrary to popular belief, being nice to people, even saving their lives, doesn't make one well-liked. Likewise, being evil to people doesn't make you a villain.
For example, the Swift Boat Veterans destroyed John Kerry despite the fact that research showed they were lying. Sgt James Crowley was instantly vilified by a large percentage of the US population despite the fact that he was acting to keep Gates safe. The US gives *huge*...
..and what do we learn from these select examples?
How you tell the story will determine how the audience reacts...
...so I stand by my claims with an additional:
Good/Bad
- have a good PR/spin/counter sleaze campaign
- discredit the messenger, discredit the message
- shout loud about your achievments, keep quiet about your failures
etc etc
..but this aside, the point still stands : If people associate you with good actions you can justifiably claim a positive social bonus and likewise, if they associate you with negative actions you can justifiably claim a negative social bonus/modifier (bonus to intimidate and penalties to diplomacy/bluff etc)
A good campaign world, a living campaign world, will reflect the actions of it's heroes/villains, regardless of their charisma.
This is why smart adventurers are nice to the bards!
Jesus was nice to the bards!
I like the gestalt idea. But the Iron Golem is better.
How about a Lich who, instead of inhabiting his old skeleton, found a way to inhabit an Iron Golem body? Now he has the spellcasting ability of a 20th level wizard, and the physical abilities of a medium-sized iron golem. Plus, when the players kill him it is just a matter of time before he goes to another body (kept in storage around the kingdom) and reanimates.
You've just described a Iron Lich from the Monsternomicon, which might not be a bad way to go.
But since I suspect the idea is to keep him human, I'd suggest going with a gestalt monk/wizard maxed out in item creation feats with an army of golems, then just handwave the armor restrictions.
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I've decided to make a Dr. Doom styled character based off of this picture.
How can I best represent his Pathfinder counterpart using only core rules and 25-point buy?
Blayde MacRonan wrote:
What's the level limit as far as classes go? Are we just limited to Core Rulebook classes or can we suggest 3rd party core classes and APG classes as well?Ravingdork wrote:
I guess APG is fine. As for level limits? Assume a 20 level cap and that classes can't go above their normal maximums (no 12th-level eldritch knights for example).
Sorry it took so long to get back. I've been very busy.
I have been reading what everyone else has posted and while I agree for the most part, I think we've gotten away from what the OP is all about. Nothing wrong with that. Doom is one of my favorite villains ever and deserves a proper write up.
I've gone over many possibilities as far as classes and stats. In the end, I've settled on bard where the class is concerned. Cleric was a close second (but if this character is going to be based on Doom, he wouldn't want to worship another being as he would feel that Doom should be the object of other beings worship.) Spellcasting should be ingrained into the class, but not necessarily the prime feature of that class. Also, Doom is a polymath and the class that best represents this is the bard.
Figuring out what class Doom would be was easy. Coming up with baseline starting stats was harder...until I realized that I was not trying to recreate the Marvel character, but was in fact making someone based on him. And with that in mind...
Str 13 (3), Dex 11 (-1), Con 12 (2), Int 17 (13), Wis 13 (3), Cha 14 (5)
In this instance, Dex would actually be a dump stat for Doom. I've not seen any instance of Doom leaping around like Spider-Man or Daredevil. He tanks with the best of them (he's gone toe-to-toe with MU's preeminent grappler Benjamin Grimm on numerous occasions) because he does shy away from a fight. Sure, that kind of thought process could get this first level Doom killed but its something that can be worked on over time. For now though, this Doom is more of a skirmisher, kind of like Treantmonk's melee bard, just not as optimized (though I would use the melee bard to further set up Doom - including the taking of Dragon Disciple as a prestige class).
Now in making Doom a bard I've really limited myself as far as armor is concerned. After all, Doom traditionally wears a suit of modified full plate. But our Doom is different. At first level, he can get by wearing masterwork studded leather (going by the core rules). I however would allow him to make use of masterwork Parade Armor from the Adventurer's Armory (with its look being defined by the country he's from - my suggestion would be Razmiran if for no other reason than to get the look of the pic in the OP's link).
EDIT
Bard 12/Dragon Disciple 8
Str 18, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 19, Wis 14, Cha 16
this is how he would look stat wise without the use of magic items at level 20.
Comments?
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How you tell the story will determine how the audience reacts...
Which is all about charisma and not the acts themselves.
Sorry, I thought we were in disagreement.
No worries! :)
Charisma can be confusing - it can be tricky discerning a situation where personal presence is involved to manipulate/influence (A) from situations where someone/an audience is reacting to content devoid of a personal presence (B) but is intended to persuade with 'facts, figures and truths'.
i.e: (A) personal charisma/magnetismvs (B)film/book/statistics
The important thing to remember is that people can learn to reject a persuader regardless of the persuader's charisma - we are capable of irrational behaviour and this can actually be a defense mechanism.
However, the flip side is that the target for persuasion typically falls back on 'logic and reason' -- believing these sources will portray the 'reality' of the situation without involing personal bias (..and therefore eleminating the effects of personal charisma having a persuasive effect.)
Unfortunatley, as we all know, facts/figures/the most 'objective' reporting can still be presented in a way that will persuade the audience - even from the simple choice of choosing what not to inform your subject on/about/with.
..it can get even more confusing when the story (lets call it the 'message') is told by someone with high charisma about an event that is designed to be associated with someone with 'normal' charisma (lets call them the Icon) Folks then confuse the message with the icon and attribute qualities not possessed by the icon with the icon.
Of course, we would typically call this 'spin'.
So aye, Dr Doom, with the right spin/campaigners, could have the charisma of a goat but his reputation could literally preceed him, striking terror into his enemies and drawing love from his people.
The real question would be how to stat Richards, his Lawful Neutral nemesis... yes, I said Lawful Neutral. He may have some good tendencies, but Richards is not a good character imo.
Mmmmmmaybe an Artificer/Monk with more reach than you can shake a rubber band at?
The real question would be how to stat Richards, his Lawful Neutral nemesis... yes, I said Lawful Neutral. He may have some good tendencies, but Richards is not a good character imo.
Mmmmmmaybe an Artificer/Monk with more reach than you can shake a rubber band at?
Lawful Evil? Apparently he'd do anything to prove he was better than Richards?
..but was a man of his word etc.
Liked to plan stuff. Big armies marching around. Uniform - smacks of Lawful Evil to me o_O
I'd like to switch my previous 'armoured wizard' suggestion for 'armoured sorcerer/expert' -- something to give him the magic mo-jo and expert to give him the sheer skill point boost to his various science skills.
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The real question would be how to stat Richards, his Lawful Neutral nemesis... yes, I said Lawful Neutral. He may have some good tendencies, but Richards is not a good character imo.
Mmmmmmaybe an Artificer/Monk with more reach than you can shake a rubber band at?
Lawful Evil? Apparently he'd do anything to prove he was better than Richards?
..but was a man of his word etc.
Liked to plan stuff. Big armies marching around. Uniform - smacks of Lawful Evil to me o_O
I'd like to switch my previous 'armoured wizard' suggestion for 'armoured sorcerer/expert' -- something to give him the magic mo-jo and expert to give him the sheer skill point boost to his various science skills.
Do not sully the name of Doom by implying hes has levels in the classes of mere commoners
Do not sully the name of Doom by implying hes has levels in the classes of mere commonersThe real question would be how to stat Richards, his Lawful Neutral nemesis... yes, I said Lawful Neutral. He may have some good tendencies, but Richards is not a good character imo.
Mmmmmmaybe an Artificer/Monk with more reach than you can shake a rubber band at?
Lawful Evil? Apparently he'd do anything to prove he was better than Richards?
..but was a man of his word etc.
Liked to plan stuff. Big armies marching around. Uniform - smacks of Lawful Evil to me o_O
I'd like to switch my previous 'armoured wizard' suggestion for 'armoured sorcerer/expert' -- something to give him the magic mo-jo and expert to give him the sheer skill point boost to his various science skills.
...but he needs the skill points! o_O
An noble expert? *-*
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The real question would be how to stat Richards, his Lawful Neutral nemesis... yes, I said Lawful Neutral. He may have some good tendencies, but Richards is not a good character imo.
Mmmmmmaybe an Artificer/Monk with more reach than you can shake a rubber band at?
Lawful Evil? Apparently he'd do anything to prove he was better than Richards?
..but was a man of his word etc.
Liked to plan stuff. Big armies marching around. Uniform - smacks of Lawful Evil to me o_O
I'd like to switch my previous 'armoured wizard' suggestion for 'armoured sorcerer/expert' -- something to give him the magic mo-jo and expert to give him the sheer skill point boost to his various science skills.
Actually, I think he was saying that Reed Richards is Lawful Neutral...And I agree. His role as a member of the Illuminati precludes his alignment from being anything else.
Reed I can see having levels of expert and sorcerer with the aberrant bloodline. I don't see him as being too wise though other wise his relationship with perhaps the most dangerous person on the FF would be a lot better than it is (looking right at ya Susan - because anyone capable of forming multiple microspheres of force inside of a person is a person I want as my best friend especially if I'm married to said person).
Ah, aye, yes, you're right, Richards is Lawful Neutral fer sure - my bad.
I agree - Reeds a classic 'man of science' -- his 'good' actions seem motivated by his need to keep stability/the world safe..
...so he can continue his work.
Sciency work. Things MAN SHOULD NOT MEDDLE WITH1!!
However - force spheres be damned. Susan's like, ya know, a total hottie!
The real question would be how to stat Richards, his Lawful Neutral nemesis... yes, I said Lawful Neutral. He may have some good tendencies, but Richards is not a good character imo.
Mmmmmmaybe an Artificer/Monk with more reach than you can shake a rubber band at?
Lawful Evil? Apparently he'd do anything to prove he was better than Richards?
..but was a man of his word etc.
Liked to plan stuff. Big armies marching around. Uniform - smacks of Lawful Evil to me o_O
I'd like to switch my previous 'armoured wizard' suggestion for 'armoured sorcerer/expert' -- something to give him the magic mo-jo and expert to give him the sheer skill point boost to his various science skills.
Actually, I think he was saying that Reed Richards is Lawful Neutral...And I agree. His role as a member of the Illuminati precludes his alignment from being anything else.
Reed I can see having levels of expert and sorcerer with the aberrant bloodline. I don't see him as being too wise though other wise his relationship with perhaps the most dangerous person on the FF would be a lot better than it is (looking right at ya Susan - because anyone capable of forming multiple microspheres of force inside of a person is a person I want as my best friend especially if I'm married to said person).
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No prob. And I agree... Sue is a total hottie! She just happens to be a total hottie that is a very dangerous person.
As for Reed....I'd say he has 3 lvls of expert and about 17 lvls of sorcerer...with the caveat that he only has a Charisma of only 10 or 11. Reed is not a charismatic man, not when compared to the others of his team. But he doesn't really need to be. He already has their loyalty (though at times it does become strained). We're not looking at Reed to be able to cast spells (though he has used arcane knowledge to aid him on more than one occasion, that is not his area of expertise) but to simulate his rubber body and those 17 levels of aberrant sorcerer do that admirably.
It's a radical concept using the prime stat of the sorcerer as dump stat, but this is Reed Richards here and one does not need to have a Cha higher than 10 to advance though the class.
Ah, aye, yes, you're right, Richards is Lawful Neutral fer sure - my bad.
I agree - Reeds a classic 'man of science' -- his 'good' actions seem motivated by his need to keep stability/the world safe..
...so he can continue his work.
Sciency work. Things MAN SHOULD NOT MEDDLE WITH1!!
However - force spheres be damned. Susan's like, ya know, a total hottie!
The real question would be how to stat Richards, his Lawful Neutral nemesis... yes, I said Lawful Neutral. He may have some good tendencies, but Richards is not a good character imo.
Mmmmmmaybe an Artificer/Monk with more reach than you can shake a rubber band at?
Lawful Evil? Apparently he'd do anything to prove he was better than Richards?
..but was a man of his word etc.
Liked to plan stuff. Big armies marching around. Uniform - smacks of Lawful Evil to me o_O
I'd like to switch my previous 'armoured wizard' suggestion for 'armoured sorcerer/expert' -- something to give him the magic mo-jo and expert to give him the sheer skill point boost to his various science skills.
Actually, I think he was saying that Reed Richards is Lawful Neutral...And I agree. His role as a member of the Illuminati precludes his alignment from being anything else.
Reed I can see having levels of expert and sorcerer with the aberrant bloodline. I don't see him as being too wise though other wise his relationship with perhaps the most dangerous person on the FF would be a lot better than it is (looking right at ya Susan - because anyone capable of forming multiple microspheres of force inside of a person is a person I want as my best friend especially if I'm married to said person).
Hmm.. ya know? I like the idea but I can't help but feel that we're giving poor Mr Richards a rough deal by casting him as an aberrant sorcerer. It makes sense - the increased reach, body mutation/critical immunity at 20th (20th?!?) but it seems a bit... messy.
However I can't for the life of me think of an alternative that isn't too... ..blaggy.
I keep thinking of a low level version of Iron Body (Rubber Body - I realise it's a bit of a stretch*) as an innate..
..but then we're really getting into the depths of houserule/homebrew.
Bah.
Hmm.. maybe a wizard then?
As Arthur C. Clarke said, ''Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.. ''
..so a sufficiently advanced magic could be indistinguishable from science?
Too blaggy?
@_@
No prob. And I agree... Sue is a total hottie! She just happens to be a total hottie that is a very dangerous person.
As for Reed....I'd say he has 3 lvls of expert and about 17 lvls of sorcerer...with the caveat that he only has a Charisma of only 10 or 11. Reed is not a charismatic man, not when compared to the others of his team. But he doesn't really need to be. He already has their loyalty (though at times it does become strained). We're not looking at Reed to be able to cast spells (though he has used arcane knowledge to aid him on more than one occasion, that is not his area of expertise) but to simulate his rubber body and those 17 levels of aberrant sorcerer do that admirably.
It's a radical concept using the prime stat of the sorcerer as dump stat, but this is Reed Richards here and one does not need to have a Cha higher than 10 to advance though the class.
...Ah, aye, yes, you're right, Richards is Lawful Neutral fer sure - my bad.
I agree - Reeds a classic 'man of science' -- his 'good' actions seem motivated by his need to keep stability/the world safe..
...so he can continue his work.
Sciency work. Things MAN SHOULD NOT MEDDLE WITH1!!
However - force spheres be damned. Susan's like, ya know, a total hottie!
The real question would be how to stat Richards, his Lawful Neutral nemesis... yes, I said Lawful Neutral. He may have some good tendencies, but Richards is not a good character imo.
Mmmmmmaybe an Artificer/Monk with more reach than you can shake a rubber band at?
Lawful Evil? Apparently he'd do anything to prove he was better than Richards?
..but was a man of his word etc.
Liked to plan stuff. Big armies marching around. Uniform - smacks of Lawful Evil to me o_O
I'd like to switch my previous 'armoured wizard' suggestion for 'armoured sorcerer/expert' -- something to give him the magic mo-jo and expert to give him the
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BenignFascist says
Hmm.. ya know? I like the idea but I can't help but feel that we're giving poor Mr Richards a rough deal by casting him as an aberrant sorcerer. It makes sense - the increased reach, body mutation/critical immunity at 20th (20th?!?) but it seems a bit... messy.However I can't for the life of me think of an alternative that isn't too... ..blaggy.
I keep thinking of a low level version of Iron Body (Rubber Body - I realise it's a bit of a stretch*) as an innate..
..but then we're really getting into the depths of houserule/homebrew.
Bah.
Hmm.. maybe a wizard then?
As Arthur C. Clarke said, ''Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.. ''
..so a sufficiently advanced magic could be indistinguishable from science?
Too blaggy?
@_@
The other alternative to giving him class levels would be to give him levels of artificer but as he advances, empower him with the aberrant bloodline powers at the appropriate levels as well. That would work rather well and since this is only Reed, we're not bound by the Core/APG limitations set on for Doom.
Hmm.. ya know? I like the idea but I can't help but feel that we're giving poor Mr Richards a rough deal by casting him as an aberrant sorcerer. It makes sense - the increased reach, body mutation/critical immunity at 20th (20th?!?) but it seems a bit... messy.
However I can't for the life of me think of an alternative that isn't too... ..blaggy.
I keep thinking of a low level version of Iron Body (Rubber Body - I realise it's a bit of a stretch*) as an innate..
..but then we're really getting into the depths of houserule/homebrew.
Bah.
Hmm.. maybe a wizard then?
As Arthur C. Clarke said, ''Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.. ''
..so a sufficiently advanced magic could be indistinguishable from science?
Too blaggy?
@_@
...No prob. And I agree... Sue is a total hottie! She just happens to be a total hottie that is a very dangerous person.
As for Reed....I'd say he has 3 lvls of expert and about 17 lvls of sorcerer...with the caveat that he only has a Charisma of only 10 or 11. Reed is not a charismatic man, not when compared to the others of his team. But he doesn't really need to be. He already has their loyalty (though at times it does become strained). We're not looking at Reed to be able to cast spells (though he has used arcane knowledge to aid him on more than one occasion, that is not his area of expertise) but to simulate his rubber body and those 17 levels of aberrant sorcerer do that admirably.
It's a radical concept using the prime stat of the sorcerer as dump stat, but this is Reed Richards here and one does not need to have a Cha higher than 10 to advance though the class.
Ah, aye, yes, you're right, Richards is Lawful Neutral fer sure - my bad.
I agree - Reeds a classic 'man of science' -- his 'good' actions seem motivated by his need to keep stability/the world safe..
...so he can continue his work.
Sciency work. Things MAN SHOULD NOT MEDDLE WITH1!!
[ooc][/ooc]
Um, Alchemist?
Well if we're going to stat out Richards then we have to do the rest of the FF as well...
Johnny Storm - Elemental fire sorcerer
Ben Grimm - Fighter or barbarian with a cursed set of full plate he cannot remove.
Susan Storm/Richards is the tough one. I'm thinking elemental air sorcerer with early entry into the Argent Savant PrC.