Fairly greenhorn DM, have just wrapped up the glassworks and suffered my first session derailment...
One of my RP happy players (plays a glory hog "monster hunter") has just convinced Ameiko to stay in Magnimar for a few days and has staged her suicide... And just sprung this plan on me.
It's still a bit sketchy, as I don't have the info yet.
But in the simplest terms, I'll put it down to "Double Defection."
I'll do exactly what Balor told me not to.
And spread rumors about Ameiko escaping with her brother, and me covering for her.
Hopefully, I can use the healers at the beach to add something about our 'closeness' to that.
Titus Scarnetti is a useful name
Hopefully I'll be able to turn the people against me and word to reach Nualia/Tsuto's ears.
Then! When we do confront them, I'll betray my comrades and join the forces of darkness. Hopefully I can get Leyla (but not sabel) in on this to make some convincing illusions when the time comes.
After infiltrating, I'll go deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole before double-crossing them again at a critical moment.
I want to let him have his fun, but it strikes me as really convulted and it forced my other two players to sit back for well over an hour while he schemed... He hasn't given me any convincing motivation and I honestly don't know how to accomodate this. You've been helpful before, paizonians, help me now. :P
Sounds to me like his plan would require pretty much a whole solo session for him. If that's a logistic possibility (either face to face, or via emails between now and your next scheduled session) you could roll with that.
Another alternative is to let your other players take on NPC roles during his infiltration, which frankly sounds like an awesome roleplaying opportunity. Without going into details, there are NPC's in Nualia's gang that's usable for this, and they know little enough of the goings on that gaining insight into their motivations and story won't spoil much of the big picture.
Alternative 3: If your other players aren't comfortable with this dude stealing the spotlight like this, reduce his infiltration to a couple skill rolls, make sure he realizes what his plan means for his involvement in the game in the near future, and if he wants to go ahead with it, let him sit on the sidelines until his last critical moment double-cross.
Well...first off, since this player is actually intending to double-cross the party....and then double-cross Nualia and co when the stars are right, he/she should have some pretty serious Bluff checks required to get that to work. Rumors should only sway the BBEG and allied forces so much, at best I'd say the story would be "Unlikely" resulting in a -5 to all related Bluff checks to pass that story off, possibly even "far-fetched" for -10.
Either way, I'd tell the player to roll up/create another character for playing in the party and then run this infiltration stuff solo, provided you want to do that as a GM. Running his double-agent character though during main sessions would tell the other players information they shouldn't know and will keep them sitting there bored while he/she does their thing. Explain all this and what it might entail if they want to do this with their character...after you explain how it might work out, they might choose to do something else.
Just be very clear about how you are running your game and what a scenario like this will entail.
-The character will be on their own after the betrayal.
-Other PCs might think the defection was real (never trust them again).
-Nualia and Co. is still not going to trust them (be aware of Bluff and Diplomacy modifiers for Hostile opponents).
-Nualia's group might not take the help, they might stand back and let the betrayer fight his/her comrades without support. Nualia and Co. might also kill the betrayer at the end of the fight anyway. Its a major risk.
-Let the player know that you won't be setting aside time from the regular game for this stuff. Either go over this character's Off screen actions in a side session or through email, etc.
I just finished RoRL part 1 myself. If one of my players asked to do this I would handle it like this-
"No."
"Why not?"
"Because."
"..."
"Sorry man, That's not going to work at a gaming table with 6 other people at the table. Something like that belongs in a book or a video game."
"... $^$#&^#%&#%&%$^&*"
"Yep. I know."
My feeling is the player has erred in terms of etiquette here but the DM has probably screwed up in allowing it to progress for so long. If a player has a long winded crazy scheme its the players responsibility to arrange a meeting with the DM outside of the normal game time. This is because both the player in question and the DM have a responsibility to the rest of the table to keep the action moving and everyone involved.
This is a complex plan, and since it won't involve most of the rest of the players its going to need to be resolved not at the game table - if that is not a possibility then the plan needs to be nixed.
Fundamentally table top RPGs are social events - you gather with other people and participate in a shared activity - the basic rules for social gatherings have not been lifted just because we are engaged in a game of pretend involving the slaying of orcs and killing of dragons.
You may want to familiarize yourself with some of the advice for dealing with players in a group. Every edition since 2nd has had an excellent book on that topic (Catacombs for 2nd, DMG II for 3.5, DMG for 4th) and it may be time to read over that section again.
You may want to familiarize yourself with some of the advice for dealing with players in a group. Every edition since 2nd has had an excellent book on that topic (Catacombs for 2nd, DMG II for 3.5, DMG for 4th) and it may be time to read over that section again.
I agree with Jeremy here, and would also suggest the recently released GMG from Paizo.
One of my RP happy players (plays a glory hog "monster hunter") has just convinced Ameiko to stay in Magnimar for a few days and has staged her suicide... And just sprung this plan on me.
How is it that the player convinced an NPC to go along with this plan?
You need to remember that you're in control of the plot, not this player. Make whatever changes you need to make to keep the plot on track, but don't do this by telling the players they "can't" do something, just think up circumstances that re-direct their intentions to where you want. Between sessions is a good time to dream up subtle ways to redirect. If you are slave to what is written in the books, any player who is creative or even awake is going to test the limitations of the AP.
I don't know enough about your situation, but it sounds like this player might be a difficult one. You should tell him, outside the game and away from the table: making things difficult for the GM or annoying the other players leads to GM-burnout and the end of the fun for everyone.
Good luck. If you care to elaborate a little more on the situation, I'm happy to advise (though I am wrong as often as not)
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I just finished RoRL part 1 myself. If one of my players asked to do this I would handle it like this-
"No."
"Why not?"
"Because."
"..."
"Sorry man, That's not going to work at a gaming table with 6 other people at the table. Something like that belongs in a book or a video game."
"... $^$#&^#%&#%&%$^&*"
"Yep. I know."
I usually don't like DMs getting into "because I say so" mode but here I totally agree. This dude is not caring about anyone but himself. There are other players and if he can't play COOPERATIVELY then he can't play.
Double Period.Enforce.
Thanks for all the input everyone. The above was out of session interaction, all that's happened in session was some diplomacy rolls to convince Ameiko to duck over to Magnimar while the heat dies down.
He informed us of his plan and related the above to me in private (and got a "wtf" response from our group.)
The plan struck me as a little far fetched and would most likely spoil his fun in the rest of the AP on what really won't be making a big part. I essentially have related to him about as much and told him he should focus on interparty roleplay, at least for the early sessions of the AP, rather than wrestle for the spotlight. He's conceded that it isn't "his best work".
I'm planning on including a ceasefire of sorts on Thistletop and playing up the investigative parts of Skinsaw Murder's to let him stretch his wings some more.
Seeing as our sessions have been few and far between and little more than casual games up to this point I've talked him off the idea, but now that I know what he's looking for in-session I can hopefully cater to it down the road.
I've also got my paws on my shiny-new Gamemastery Guide pdf and am currently drooling over the art. Thanks again for all the input, folks.